Soldier versions of grenades cause redraw (you pull out your gun and fire the grenade).
Crab version shoots from one of the backpack legs, and animates faster. Crab version is therefore preferable.
Crabs can be plenty epic, but it takes time and influence to get there. A fully IOd out crab can tank, blast and spawn as many pets as a Mastermind - on a perma basis. Just be ready to pay through the nose for all those +Rech sets.
On the Epic-ness issue:
Have you ever teamed with multiple VEATs, all running their leadership toggles? You collectively become an untouchable steamroller of mass destruction. It's like being on a well constructed team blueside, but with no need for a healer.
Mechanista 50 rad/rad Corruptor
Buster Braun 32 SS/Inv Brute
Mortua Manus 41 Bots/Dark MM
December Ashe 30 Ice/Fire Dominator
Umbra Sprite 32 Dark/Super Reflexes Stalker
Mister Large 30 Thugs/Bubbles MM
Dynamaxine 28 Electric/Stone Brute
Three-Alarm 19 Fire/Dark Corruptor
I was awesome when i12 came out. A ton of Spiders with all the leadership toggles.
I was well over the softcapped at level 10 I recall once.
a keld can travle yes and can shift to diffrent roles and get stats boost depending on team.
VEATS get all 3 role types a super leader ship pool and a great recharge time and several other heres and theres.
just like all the red side AT they didnt clone the kelds.
Thanks for the replies!
lot of valid points.
The only thing I would like to mention on the epic-ness is that if it takes 4 of a team to become steamrollers that seems a bit unepic to me.
I duo a lot with my brother and we have 5 sets of characters that we roll around with in pact bonds and with just a brute and corrupter and that feels more epic destroying things at an unreal pace. I can't wait for Issue 16 to be able to crank the mobs up for that duo. We are going to start it at 8, and then see if it goes to 11.
Thanks again for the information!
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The only thing I would like to mention on the epic-ness is that if it takes 4 of a team to become steamrollers that seems a bit unepic to me.
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The "Epic" in Epic Archetype does not refer to power level. The "Epic" refers to the word Epic, in the literary sense. The Epic Archetypes have a storyline unique to them that runs from level 1-50. While the quality of said story is debatable, it is still there. This, according to the Devs, is what seperates an Epic Archetype from the other Archetypes. In fact, it is counter to the goals of the Dev team to make any Epic Archetype significantly more powerful than any of the regular Archetypes. Expect any future Epic Archetypes to follow the same guidleines (Epic != power, Epic = story)
Because the Epic Archetypes have so many power choices, they are far from "easy mode." In order to make a good Kheldian or Soldier that fits your playstyle, you need to make some hard choices. The thing that makes the Epic Archetypes truly "Epic" for me is the fact that no matter what your playstyle, you can find a build that suits you and is still effective.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Thanks for the replies!
lot of valid points.
The only thing I would like to mention on the epic-ness is that if it takes 4 of a team to become steamrollers that seems a bit unepic to me.
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so whens the last time u steam rolled with just 2 kelds ?
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Soldier versions of grenades cause redraw (you pull out your gun and fire the grenade).
Crab version shoots from one of the backpack legs, and animates faster. Crab version is therefore preferable.
Crabs can be plenty epic, but it takes time and influence to get there. A fully IOd out crab can tank, blast and spawn as many pets as a Mastermind - on a perma basis. Just be ready to pay through the nose for all those +Rech sets.
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As many as a Mastermind? How so? Not being snarky, I'm new to VEATS and I'm wondering how they do that?
For me
3 spiderlings
2 call reinforcements
1 Mu
= 6 pets ( same as MM )
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Soldier versions of grenades cause redraw (you pull out your gun and fire the grenade).
Crab version shoots from one of the backpack legs, and animates faster. Crab version is therefore preferable.
Crabs can be plenty epic, but it takes time and influence to get there. A fully IOd out crab can tank, blast and spawn as many pets as a Mastermind - on a perma basis. Just be ready to pay through the nose for all those +Rech sets.
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As many as a Mastermind? How so? Not being snarky, I'm new to VEATS and I'm wondering how they do that?
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3 Spiderlings
2 Disruptors
1 Patron Pet
Though permaing the last two takes a heck of a lot of recharge.
How much recharge? Counting both Mental Training and Hasten, and 95% recharge from enhancements.
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How much recharge? Counting both Mental Training and Hasten, and 95% recharge from enhancements.
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900 base / 240 duration = 3.75 = 375% total recharge, or +275% recharge (subtracting out 100% base)
So that's ~90% global recharge after slots, hasten, and MT. Hasten would have a slight downtime which would marginally deperma the pets, but it'd be within 5s of perma.
Ew. Well, its alot less from what I expected. Still, shouldn't be too hard to get that recharge.
Thanks for the quick response Sarrate! 
Actually, let me clarify what I said, because I can already see what I said being a bit confusing. What you'd need is:
Global Rech: 90%
Ment Training: 20%
Hasten: 70%
TOTAL = 180% global rech
Then add 95% from slotting for the +275% rech necessary. That's enough global rech to just perma Hasten if it has 95% enh as well. (I previously forgot to readd Mental Training to my calculations)
Way to go! you got me all confused! 
Haha, I was a bit confused there for a second, but then I realized that the 90% bit was from set bonuses.(Right?)
Right.
Sorry, its just not my day for clarify today.
No problem, thanks for the info.
math ...hurt..ugs head 
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so whens the last time u steam rolled with just 2 kelds ?
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This being my first level 50, I have yet to play a kheldon.
I do appologize if my posts seem to be snarky enough to deserve such a response.
I HAVE played a
brute and corrupter
brute and MM
2 Scrappers
Tanker and scrapper
and those did some steamrolling
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The "Epic" in Epic Archetype does not refer to power level. The "Epic" refers to the word Epic, in the literary sense. The Epic Archetypes have a storyline unique to them that runs from level 1-50.
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Thank you, this does make more sense in the epicness. I was thinking that it couldn't have been that way when I did 1 quest in 1 encounter and was told to come back later. I was expecting a lot more of a story line. I took precautions (making sure I was pacted up and had a bit of free time) to do the quest line.
Thanks again for all the responses!
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The "Epic" in Epic Archetype does not refer to power level. The "Epic" refers to the word Epic, in the literary sense. The Epic Archetypes have a storyline unique to them that runs from level 1-50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you, this does make more sense in the epicness. I was thinking that it couldn't have been that way when I did 1 quest in 1 encounter and was told to come back later. I was expecting a lot more of a story line. I took precautions (making sure I was pacted up and had a bit of free time) to do the quest line.
Thanks again for all the responses!
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This is why I said that while the story was there, the quality of the story was debatable.
The Kheldian story on heroside is much better. The VEAT story feels..... rushed (to be polite). Most of the VEAT arcs are mini arcs, two to three missions in length. They all follow the same basic plot through the character's career from level 1-50.
The Peacebringer and Warshade arcs tend to be 3-5 missions in length, have different contacts for the two types of Kheldians, and see the overall story from different angles (until the 30s, when the stories converge).
If they ever get around to making more EATs, I hope their stories are closer to the quality of the Kheldian story than the Arachnos story.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
For a real epic feel, use your dual builds for full effectiveness.
My main build is my crab 'blastermind' (6 pets and AoE mass destruction) and my second build is a Bane AV killer.
On teams, I run in crab mode using the team toggles for group buffing and using my AoE powers on the large groups that get encountered, all the while having my pets up to keep the heat off of me. I will even play solo with my crab because he is alot of fun to play.
If I know I am going to be getting an EB/AV or a mission where stealth will just make life easier, I have the Bane to fall back on. He has mitigation through knockdown and quick kills (Stealth Strike is your friend).
In summary, I've had more fun playing this guy than I did on either of the Khelds.
Greetings,
Having just got my first level 50 Villain and decided to make a crab spider and have a few questions on things that are confusing me.
In the Crab Primary tree there is Venom Grenade and Frag Grenade, along with the same 2 grenades in Soldier Primary. I was wondering why they are there 2 times? You can't take Frag Grenade twice so I am confused by that. Do they both use the same animation? If I am going Crab would it be better to take the one in Crab?
Also I am not a number cruncher, but as I play the character it doesn't feel "epic" to me or seem comparable to Kheldons in there free travels and other neat things. I was wondering what is 'epic' about the character? I don't mean that in an Eddie Haskel kinda way.
Conditioning, +.08 more health, endurance regeneration seems REALLY weak, but with my statement of not a number cruncher is this better than how poor it seems to me?
Thanks for reading and I don't want to seem like a whiner or complainer type, but just some of the things I noticed and would like to be corrected on.
Thanks!