You could do it that way or 4 Performance Shifter in each. Skipping the Rech/Acc and the Tri.
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I'm IO'ing out a really tight build for my BS/WP and could only afford 4 free slots for both stamina and quick recovery. The WP toggles + tough + weave + maneuvers make this a very end-heavy build. So how would I slot these two powers for maximum benefit? Should I just slot three end mods for each or use performance shifters (%, endmod, endmod/acc)?
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Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
If you've got QR, Stamina, and 4 slots to put between them, your best bet is this: Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter EndMod, and a level 50 common End Mod. The Perf Shifter proc is actually better than anything else you can put into Stamina and it's just as good as anything you can put into Quick Recovery (it's actually .01 end/sec worse than the first lvl 50 End Mod you put into it, but I rate the fact that you can't debuff the Perf Shifter proc to be better than .01 end/sec). After that, the 2 level 50 End Mod IOs (the Perf Shifter is just there to get that little set bonus but isn't really necessary) simply bring the enhancement up to the edge of the redzone. Any End Mod after that is going to be largely ineffective thanks to ED.
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You could do it that way or 4 Performance Shifter in each. Skipping the Rech/Acc and the Tri.
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This is what I do. endmod, endmod/rech, endmod/acc and the chance for +end.
On a WP , I put in 4 Efficacy Adaptors for both Stamina and Quick Recovery. HP, Recovery and Regen bonuses times two.
50 SM/WP Brute - D Block
50 FM/ELA Brute - Raging Daemon
50 Acher/MM Blaster - Dark Reiver
50 FM/SD - Firestorm Brigade
You were right to fear me...
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I'm IO'ing out a really tight build for my BS/WP and could only afford 4 free slots for both stamina and quick recovery. The WP toggles + tough + weave + maneuvers make this a very end-heavy build. So how would I slot these two powers for maximum benefit? Should I just slot three end mods for each or use performance shifters (%, endmod, endmod/acc)?
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Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
If you've got QR, Stamina, and 4 slots to put between them, your best bet is this: Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter EndMod, and a level 50 common End Mod. The Perf Shifter proc is actually better than anything else you can put into Stamina and it's just as good as anything you can put into Quick Recovery (it's actually .01 end/sec worse than the first lvl 50 End Mod you put into it, but I rate the fact that you can't debuff the Perf Shifter proc to be better than .01 end/sec). After that, the 2 level 50 End Mod IOs (the Perf Shifter is just there to get that little set bonus but isn't really necessary) simply bring the enhancement up to the edge of the redzone. Any End Mod after that is going to be largely ineffective thanks to ED.
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I apologize in advance...I'm still learning some of the terminology. Which Perf Shifter are you referring to when you say "Per Shifter proc"? I'd like to try your slotting recommendation but not entirely sure which ones you're referring to. I'm getting started WAY late in the game as you can tell 
)
Put 4 performance shifter: +end, end mod, end mod/acc, and end mod/rech in quick recovery and put a performance shifter: +end and and end mod in stamina. That is if I understood you correctly. If that's one too many, just remove the end mod from stamina.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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I'm IO'ing out a really tight build for my BS/WP and could only afford 4 free slots for both stamina and quick recovery. The WP toggles + tough + weave + maneuvers make this a very end-heavy build. So how would I slot these two powers for maximum benefit? Should I just slot three end mods for each or use performance shifters (%, endmod, endmod/acc)?
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Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
If you've got QR, Stamina, and 4 slots to put between them, your best bet is this: Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter EndMod, and a level 50 common End Mod. The Perf Shifter proc is actually better than anything else you can put into Stamina and it's just as good as anything you can put into Quick Recovery (it's actually .01 end/sec worse than the first lvl 50 End Mod you put into it, but I rate the fact that you can't debuff the Perf Shifter proc to be better than .01 end/sec). After that, the 2 level 50 End Mod IOs (the Perf Shifter is just there to get that little set bonus but isn't really necessary) simply bring the enhancement up to the edge of the redzone. Any End Mod after that is going to be largely ineffective thanks to ED.
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I apologize in advance...I'm still learning some of the terminology. Which Perf Shifter are you referring to when you say "Per Shifter proc"? I'd like to try your slotting recommendation but not entirely sure which ones you're referring to. I'm getting started WAY late in the game as you can tell )
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"Proc" refers to the "Chance for [insert effect here]" IOs. The Perf Shifter proc is the one that has a 20% chance to restore 10% endurance.
Got it. Thanks guys. Now, the OP was saying that he only had 4 slots between QR and Stam...what would be the optimum slotting for both if you are not limited to only 4 slots? I'm anxious to give this is a shot tonight and see if it makes a difference.
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Got it. Thanks guys. Now, the OP was saying that he only had 4 slots between QR and Stam...what would be the optimum slotting for both if you are not limited to only 4 slots? I'm anxious to give this is a shot tonight and see if it makes a difference.
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Exactly as I said it would be. Stamina and Quick Recovery each get their basic slot plus 2 more. My slotting recommendations require 3 slots in each for a total of 6 slots. The 2 starting slots plus the 4 free slots equal 6 slots.
Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
If you've got QR, Stamina, and 4 slots to put between them, your best bet is this: Perf Shifter proc, Perf Shifter EndMod, and a level 50 common End Mod.
Sorry Umbral, I don't see where you previously discussed 6 total slots...only 4. That is why I asked.
EDIT - Sorry, those first two lines were supposed to be quoted...not sure how I managed that 
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Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
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Not exactly. The way the math works (like recharge reduction) is that the first generic endmod slotted in Stamina is worth more than the second slotted in QR. (Of course, that's the base slot.) So--if using plain endmods of the same level--your second slot in QR should definitely precede your second slot in Stamina, which should precede your third slot in QR which should precede your third slot in Stamina.
All of this is complicated by the proc and trying to get set bonuses, though.
Nitpick, also. At least as it registers in your chat window, the proc is 10 end, not 10%. (Barring the chat window lying.) A toon of mine with 119 max end always bestows herself 10 end when it procs.
The base end is 100. So, it grants 10% of your base endurance, ingoring all buffs and enhancements like accolades and set bonuses. Its a shame crashing powers don't work the same way. Oh what joy that would bring to the use of unstoppable, nukes, elude, and light form.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
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Not exactly. The way the math works (like recharge reduction) is that the first generic endmod slotted in Stamina is worth more than the second slotted in QR. (Of course, that's the base slot.) So--if using plain endmods of the same level--your second slot in QR should definitely precede your second slot in Stamina, which should precede your third slot in QR which should precede your third slot in Stamina.
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You're simply wrong here. Recovery isn't increased on the same path as Recharge (which does follow the diminishing path). Recovery is improved from a point of (1 + endMod). Recharge is improved inversely because recharge is determined by 1/(1+recharge). The slotting advice I've given is still correct.
What you're probably thinking is going to decrease the effectiveness is ED, which isn't going to hit until the second slot, at which point it's pointless to continue slotting. Because QR is simply the larger buff, it should get slotted completely before you even begin throwing slots into Stamina. If you want, I can do even more complete math for you.
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Nitpick, also. At least as it registers in your chat window, the proc is 10 end, not 10%. (Barring the chat window lying.) A toon of mine with 119 max end always bestows herself 10 end when it procs.
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I've seen it reward both 10 and 11 end on my characters in the chat window, and the endurance tests I've gone through have always demonstrated to me that it's a percent benefit of max endurance rather than a flat quantity. I've got good reasons for using 10% rather than 10 end.
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Because Quick Recovery is a larger buff than Stamina, it should get preferential slotting compared to Stamina. Before Stamina gets any slots, Quick Recovery should get 3.
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Not exactly. The way the math works (like recharge reduction) is that the first generic endmod slotted in Stamina is worth more than the second slotted in QR. (Of course, that's the base slot.) So--if using plain endmods of the same level--your second slot in QR should definitely precede your second slot in Stamina, which should precede your third slot in QR which should precede your third slot in Stamina.
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You're simply wrong here. Recovery isn't increased on the same path as Recharge (which does follow the diminishing path). Recovery is improved from a point of (1 + endMod). Recharge is improved inversely because recharge is determined by 1/(1+recharge). The slotting advice I've given is still correct.
What you're probably thinking is going to decrease the effectiveness is ED, which isn't going to hit until the second slot, at which point it's pointless to continue slotting. Because QR is simply the larger buff, it should get slotted completely before you even begin throwing slots into Stamina. If you want, I can do even more complete math for you.
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Nitpick, also. At least as it registers in your chat window, the proc is 10 end, not 10%. (Barring the chat window lying.) A toon of mine with 119 max end always bestows herself 10 end when it procs.
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I've seen it reward both 10 and 11 end on my characters in the chat window, and the endurance tests I've gone through have always demonstrated to me that it's a percent benefit of max endurance rather than a flat quantity. I've got good reasons for using 10% rather than 10 end.
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I've never gotten more then 10. I just wrote it off as 10% of base just like the rest of the bonuses. If this is the case, why am I only getting 10?
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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I've never gotten more then 10. I just wrote it off as 10% of base just like the rest of the bonuses. If this is the case, why am I only getting 10?
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I'm pretty sure it's due to the proc's chat message simply being a static string.
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Exactly as I said it would be. Stamina and Quick Recovery each get their basic slot plus 2 more. My slotting recommendations require 3 slots in each for a total of 6 slots. The 2 starting slots plus the 4 free slots equal 6 slots.
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That's not quite Ideal. It's good but can be improved. Ideal would require 7 slots = Quick Recovery gets 4 slots and Stamina gets 3. Here is the breakdown (from Laevateinn):
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3x Lv50 Common IO
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+49.8% Recovery.
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1x Lv50 Common IO
Performance Shifter: EndMod
Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
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+45.8% Recovery. You lose 4% Recovery, but the proc is around 0.2 EPS. This is what I tend to use.
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Performance Shifter: EndMod
Performance Shifter: EndMod/Accuracy
Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
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Only +42.2% Recovery, but +1.87% HP. This is down 7.7% Recovery from ED-capped Stamina, though it isn't that bad considering you're still getting the proc. I used this slotting on my Controller and Defender, whose builds were both very tight on slots and had enough recovery from other sources that the lower enhancement values mattered less than the extra HP buffer.
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Performance Shifter: EndMod
Performance Shifter: EndMod/Accuracy
Performance Shifter: EndMod/Recharge
Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
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+50.4% recovery (including 2.5% set bonus), another 0.2 from the proc and +1.87% HP, at the cost of 1 extra slot.
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Since you can only have one proc, it appears that your best bet is to go 4 pieces of Performance Shifter in Quick Recovery, and 3 level 50 IOs in Stamina.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Since you can only have one proc, it appears that your best bet is to go 4 pieces of Performance Shifter in Quick Recovery, and 3 level 50 IOs in Stamina.
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The proc isn't unique. You can have one in each power. My recommendations still stand as the best.
So, huh, messing about, and yeah, wrong. Sorry about dispensing bad information. Dammit! My /regen was gradually slotted all wrong when he leveled!
And the chat window lies!
Umbral: You are saying, however, that proc in *first* slot in Stamina, second slot in QR, right?
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You are saying, however, that proc in *first* slot in Stamina, second slot in QR, right?
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I'm saying proc first in both. From a sheer numbers standpoint, the proc is better than anything else you can put in Stamina and only .01 end/sec worse than anything else you can put in QR. However, what makes me rank the proc higher than a level 50 End Mod IO is that the chance for +end can't be debuffed. Even if you self debuff from a nuke or get hit by a sapper, the Perf Shifter proc will still keep on trucking, which, to me, is more than worth the loss of one one-hundredth of a point of endurance every second, on average.
I'm the opposite. I consider the procs less valuable than their average would indicate because they're random, and therefore can't be counted on. I do see your point, though.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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I'm the opposite. I consider the procs less valuable than their average would indicate because they're random, and therefore can't be counted on. I do see your point, though.
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They also don't scale down when exemp'd so they're better for that reason as well.
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However, what makes me rank the proc higher than a level 50 End Mod IO is that the chance for +end can't be debuffed.
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Oh yeah, had forgotten that argument. The first toons I slotted the proc on were a Rad/ and a /TA, in hopes that they would sometimes counteract the EMP recovery crashes. (Now it goes on everybody, but I've been putting it second slot...)
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I'm the opposite. I consider the procs less valuable than their average would indicate because they're random, and therefore can't be counted on. I do see your point, though.
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They also don't scale down when exemp'd so they're better for that reason as well.
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Ah, good point if I ever exemplared. Still, that's probably enough to make me switch my opinion as far as recommendations go.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Since you can only have one proc, it appears that your best bet is to go 4 pieces of Performance Shifter in Quick Recovery, and 3 level 50 IOs in Stamina.
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The proc isn't unique. You can have one in each power. My recommendations still stand as the best.
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I'm still not seeing your math add up. Proc +endmod + Common = ~45%.
Proc +3 from the set = ~50%.
50%> 45%
Dual 4 sockets would be ideal if, as follow up asked (not as OP asked) slots were not an issue. Correct? Or were you still answering OP and I'm answering follow up and we're talking in circles as a result? (in that case, see my sig 
)
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
I'm IO'ing out a really tight build for my BS/WP and could only afford 4 free slots for both stamina and quick recovery. The WP toggles + tough + weave + maneuvers make this a very end-heavy build. So how would I slot these two powers for maximum benefit? Should I just slot three end mods for each or use performance shifters (%, endmod, endmod/acc)?