I just can't stand Dimension Shift...
By
AquaJAWS,
Posted on: 2009-07-14 13:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I beleive that this is caused by the recent AI changes. Multiple re-exploding Rikti Drones and Council Hover Bots, Repairmen in the STF geting their repair off, mobs that are defeated still doing their damage after defeat, are all things that I have noticed.
Hopefully these are new bugs and not new WAI.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
DS has an immobilize component, and if the targets hit with DS resist immobilizes then they won't be forced to stand there. It's been like this for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since Oct 04.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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DS has an immobilize component, and if the targets hit with DS resist immobilizes then they won't be forced to stand there. It's been like this for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since Oct 04.
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Ok, we were fighting Councils and Family last night. I remember they would stand there but could they actually attack? I remember they can't attack? I am asking this because last night there was an ambush and we used DS in two missions and the mobs could still attack apparently. They just don't deal damage. I can hear all the incoming attacks and you feel like they are not "shifted" and it was annoying/confusing to try to figure out which one is "shifted". The power itself is already annoying enough.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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DS has an immobilize component, and if the targets hit with DS resist immobilizes then they won't be forced to stand there. It's been like this for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since Oct 04.
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Ok, we were fighting Councils and Family last night. I remember they would stand there but could they actually attack? I remember they can't attack? I am asking this because last night there was an ambush and we used DS in two missions and the mobs could still attack apparently. They just don't deal damage. I can hear all the incoming attacks and you feel like they are not "shifted" and it was annoying/confusing to try to figure out which one is "shifted". The power itself is already annoying enough.
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They shouldn't be able to attack, no. Actually, I remember seeing something about a change recently that allowed Phased targets to attack other Phased targets in PvP, so it might have bled over into the PvE game. The fact that they're able to attack (but not do damage to you) might be evidence of this.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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DS has an immobilize component, and if the targets hit with DS resist immobilizes then they won't be forced to stand there. It's been like this for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since Oct 04.
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Ok, we were fighting Councils and Family last night. I remember they would stand there but could they actually attack? I remember they can't attack? I am asking this because last night there was an ambush and we used DS in two missions and the mobs could still attack apparently. They just don't deal damage. I can hear all the incoming attacks and you feel like they are not "shifted" and it was annoying/confusing to try to figure out which one is "shifted". The power itself is already annoying enough.
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They shouldn't be able to attack, no. Actually, I remember seeing something about a change recently that allowed Phased targets to attack other Phased targets in PvP, so it might have bled over into the PvE game. The fact that they're able to attack (but not do damage to you) might be evidence of this.
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I didn't think that was just a PVP change, I thought that was a global change to phase
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DS has an immobilize component, and if the targets hit with DS resist immobilizes then they won't be forced to stand there. It's been like this for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since Oct 04.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, we were fighting Councils and Family last night. I remember they would stand there but could they actually attack? I remember they can't attack? I am asking this because last night there was an ambush and we used DS in two missions and the mobs could still attack apparently. They just don't deal damage. I can hear all the incoming attacks and you feel like they are not "shifted" and it was annoying/confusing to try to figure out which one is "shifted". The power itself is already annoying enough.
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They shouldn't be able to attack, no. Actually, I remember seeing something about a change recently that allowed Phased targets to attack other Phased targets in PvP, so it might have bled over into the PvE game. The fact that they're able to attack (but not do damage to you) might be evidence of this.
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I didn't think that was just a PVP change, I thought that was a global change to phase
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Oh ok. Yeah, I remember reading that about Phase Shift targets being able to attack other Phase Shift targets. Well, I know we weren't Phase Shift so they shouldn't be able to target me.
Can other Gravity Doms or Trollers test this? I know it's rare out there but if this is an "intended", then they just made this power even more annoying.
I know the phased mobs would still attack us but not doing any damage and that's why the power is super confusing.
I mean I am trying really hard to like Gravity but it keeps giving me reasons to hate it.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Dimension Shift has always been one of the worst powers in the game. It is occasionally useful, but far more often troublesome. My advice? Just skip Dimension Shift. Many powersets have that one power that's just not worth taking. This is Gravity's.
I team with the Repeat Offenders.
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Dimension Shift has always been one of the worst powers in the game. It is occasionally useful, but far more often troublesome. My advice? Just skip Dimension Shift. Many powersets have that one power that's just not worth taking. This is Gravity's.
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But.. but... but!!!
How can they make this power WORSE than before is beyond me.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I just got DS and haven't yet to understand its use only maybe to use when the team is getting whooped. My DS will hold my targets and at first...they will attack byut real quickly stop and just stand there. I can see the visual effects but no damage. I assume that DS does not damage just hold targets?
I dk but I'm not thrilled having taking DS so I am respecing as soon as I can. Someone please reply to inform me of the use of DS if its a good power to have.
Ok I have two Grav toons. My Grav/Rad I've had for almost four years. DS is acting differently, now. The mobs used to be immobilized and wouldn't attack. Now they run around like nuts and can still open fire on targets. Also the effect isn't as obvious...I'm going to to bug this, something is definitely wrong. DS is a difficult enough to use power without this added into the mix.
p.s. I've found an old power description:
Dimension Shift
Level Available: 12
Effects: AoE Intangible, Immobilize
Duration: 30 (Mag 3)
Endurance Cost: 13
Recharge: 90
Description:
A controversial power, and the first of the unique controls available to Gravity. Dimension Shift causes your foes to become intangible. This means that, while they can't attack you, you can't attack them either. You can use powers on them, but you'll just get an "Unaffected!" message when the power lands. As intangible enemies, you can walk straight through them, which is nice. Enemies are also Immobilized, which means they can't chase you around or flee.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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Dimension Shift has always been one of the worst powers in the game. It is occasionally useful, but far more often troublesome. My advice? Just skip Dimension Shift. Many powersets have that one power that's just not worth taking. This is Gravity's.
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Though supposedly this makes "Fight Club"ing in PvP zones easier.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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I seem to recall the last groups I used it on going through an attack *animation,* but no attacks actually working. Unless it changed in the last few days, they certainly weren't running around.
Hopping on to look.
Edit:
Lvl 30 Grav troller, found some 29 Family talking to a Sky Raider.
Dimension shift applied - hit all 3 of them.
(a) They do go through the attack animations.
(b) They do not move. (Edit - ok, they may if they can resist the immob portion of it, more noticable with, say, a Freak Tank... but he'll still be intangible.)
(c) Even when "hit" (and in fact, you play the "hit" animations,) there's no damage or effect to the player while DS is active.
If you're getting hit and taking damage from anything, it's probably the initial attack from them aggroing on you (which, to me, is silly, but it's been that way for a while.)
We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage.
Code is looking into it, and Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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That would be AWESOME. My main beef with phase shift powers is that they're overly subtle. I've seen many players pound on phased enemies before going "Huh? I'm not doing damage?"
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Code is looking into it, and Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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Instead of transparent...which could be confused with invisibility and stealth, would it be possible for them to switch to an inverse color spectrum...like where whites become blacks and the other colors are inverted...like a photo negative (i know that color transformation has a name but I'm not sure what it is off the top of my head). I think it would look cool and be a pretty clear indicator that its phased. Or at least some other kind of indication to not confuse it with stealth.
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We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage.
Code is looking into it, and Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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Actually you can use this to your advantage on a solo MM. Phase out mob and tell pets to keep attacking. Aggro continues to build even though they are doing no damage. Afterward you can attack with impunity as you will have a hard time building up enough damage to draw mob away from pets.
I know on my MMs that if I let loose I will always end up getting all the aggro, which can be good or bad.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage.
Code is looking into it, and Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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Is it possible / desirable to make enemies that are phased and can't be affected by you (i.e. you're not phased also) so that they're untargetable?
That way you at least wouldn't waste time / endurance trying to attack them.
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Instead of transparent...which could be confused with invisibility and stealth, would it be possible for them to switch to an inverse color spectrum...like where whites become blacks and the other colors are inverted...like a photo negative (i know that color transformation has a name but I'm not sure what it is off the top of my head). I think it would look cool and be a pretty clear indicator that its phased. Or at least some other kind of indication to not confuse it with stealth.
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i really like this idea if it's possible to implement. Inverting or otherwise shifting phased enemy colors would be a better cue than making them more transparent.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage.
Code is looking into it, and Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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Thanks!
But can we just get Group Lift and call it "done"? 
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I just got DS and haven't yet to understand its use only maybe to use when the team is getting whooped. My DS will hold my targets and at first...they will attack byut real quickly stop and just stand there. I can see the visual effects but no damage. I assume that DS does not damage just hold targets?
I dk but I'm not thrilled having taking DS so I am respecing as soon as I can. Someone please reply to inform me of the use of DS if its a good power to have.
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You won't feel a thing if you respec out Dimension Shift. 9/10 Gravity users either don't take the power or took it but never use it. Only that 10% of Gravity users trying really hard to like this power (like me) or claiming the power has "nothing wrong with it", which we know is not true at all. If there is nothing wrong with the power, why do most people hate it so much?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I just got DS and haven't yet to understand its use only maybe to use when the team is getting whooped. My DS will hold my targets and at first...they will attack byut real quickly stop and just stand there. I can see the visual effects but no damage. I assume that DS does not damage just hold targets?
I dk but I'm not thrilled having taking DS so I am respecing as soon as I can. Someone please reply to inform me of the use of DS if its a good power to have.
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You won't feel a thing if you respec out Dimension Shift. 9/10 Gravity users either don't take the power or took it but never use it. Only that 10% of Gravity users trying really hard to like this power (like me) or claiming the power has "nothing wrong with it", which we know is not true at all. If there is nothing wrong with the power, why do most people hate it so much?
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Speak for yourself, don't pretend to speak for all grav users. I know it's true that there's nothing particularly wrong (edit: mechanically, I have no argument with it being made more apparent it's in use) with the power itself. If people don't use it *intelligently,* that's not the power's fault. Why do people hate it? *Because some people have no clue how to use it, and use it poorly.* Much like, oh, Telekenesis, Repel, Force Bubble, Hurricane or Group Fly.
I don't have to "try really hard" to like the power. I know full well it's situational. On the other hand, if someone *doesn't* like it, hey, it's not a foundational power for a controller like a single target hold.
As for the person you were replying to:
- No, DS is not supposed to do damage.
- It holds targets in a way, yes - it makes them intangible, unable to hurt anyone (though they can still move - if they resist immobs, they may still be able to run) or *be* hurt. This obviously doesn't do anything for Containment.
- Its use - completely removing a group from a fight for a while. AOE hold not up, and you don't need more incoming fire or aggro from the AOE immob? DS while you finish the first group. Use it as a "ghetto stealth" to get past a group, or for a pause in the action. In one of those tight lab rooms with a boss and another group, and you don't want the boss's aggro right now? It takes two holds to hold a boss - but only one application of Dimension Shift.
It is situational, absolutely. If you think there's another power you need more, there's nothing wrong with *not* taking it - it doesn't fit into everyone's playstyle.
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I just got DS and haven't yet to understand its use only maybe to use when the team is getting whooped. My DS will hold my targets and at first...they will attack byut real quickly stop and just stand there. I can see the visual effects but no damage. I assume that DS does not damage just hold targets?
I dk but I'm not thrilled having taking DS so I am respecing as soon as I can. Someone please reply to inform me of the use of DS if its a good power to have.
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You won't feel a thing if you respec out Dimension Shift. 9/10 Gravity users either don't take the power or took it but never use it. Only that 10% of Gravity users trying really hard to like this power (like me) or claiming the power has "nothing wrong with it", which we know is not true at all. If there is nothing wrong with the power, why do most people hate it so much?
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Speak for yourself, don't pretend to speak for all grav users. I know it's true that there's nothing particularly wrong (edit: mechanically, I have no argument with it being made more apparent it's in use) with the power itself. If people don't use it *intelligently,* that's not the power's fault. Why do people hate it? *Because some people have no clue how to use it, and use it poorly.* Much like, oh, Telekenesis, Repel, Force Bubble, Hurricane or Group Fly.
I don't have to "try really hard" to like the power. I know full well it's situational. On the other hand, if someone *doesn't* like it, hey, it's not a foundational power for a controller like a single target hold.
As for the person you were replying to:
- No, DS is not supposed to do damage.
- It holds targets in a way, yes - it makes them intangible, unable to hurt anyone (though they can still move - if they resist immobs, they may still be able to run) or *be* hurt. This obviously doesn't do anything for Containment.
- Its use - completely removing a group from a fight for a while. AOE hold not up, and you don't need more incoming fire or aggro from the AOE immob? DS while you finish the first group. Use it as a "ghetto stealth" to get past a group, or for a pause in the action. In one of those tight lab rooms with a boss and another group, and you don't want the boss's aggro right now? It takes two holds to hold a boss - but only one application of Dimension Shift.
It is situational, absolutely. If you think there's another power you need more, there's nothing wrong with *not* taking it - it doesn't fit into everyone's playstyle.
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You are one of those 10% people I was talking about...
You try really hard to like this power. Hey, I used to say Stalker's Repluse in Energy Aura has a PURPOSE and I took it! I felt the power has a purpose when I push a boss to a corner (I probably lost 20 endurance doing that...)!
You can make a point for every power in the game. Some powers are a lot more useful than the other and Dimension Shift is one of those that is super situational and you won't feel a thing if you respec out.
You list out different situations where DS serves a "purpose". I can also list even more situations where DS is completely waste of time, confusing and ANNOYING. The things that DS can do, AoE sleep can probably do better or hold. And you need a lot of team communication for DS to be "not annoying". Believe me, I've tried to like DS. About the only time I use DS freely is when I solo.
Feel free to disagree. I know I am not the minority here.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage.
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Is this what is happening with the STF repairmen and with mobs dealing damage after they have died?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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We've looked into this one. Apparently the AI reacted funny to the phase changes. Currently the AI thinks everyone is a valid target, even though it can't actually deal damage.
Code is looking into it, and Bab's might be able to do something to make them a lot more transparent. That should make it much more apparent that the targets are phased out.
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I'm kind of working blind here as I don't know what this originally looked like or when/why it changed.
I have a lvl 44 Gravity/Icy Dom and my bro recently lvl a Gravity/Thorn Dom to 37. I encouraged him to try something new...
So it could be DS has always been like this and if that's the case, then I am going to respec DS out. I understand the purpose of it but I hate the animation part because the mobs would still attack even though they are not doing any damage. I need to spend quite a bit of effort just to figure out which ones are actually hurting me and plus the fact that Masterminds can't see the "unaffected" message from pet's damage. It doesn't take long to figure out that your pets are not doing any damage but if one target takes 2-3s to figure out, and then spend another 3-4s to figure out which critter is not affected, you just spend 8s getting confused by this power..
Ok, I understand Gravity isn't the best control set. I get that and I can look past the awful Propel "attack" power on Dominator. The Lift buff is pretty sweet, however...
My bro used Dimension Shift a few times last time and the dev did SOMETHING to this power (recently?) and made it so annoying.
I still remember when I first use DS about a year ago, the mobs would just STAND THERE if they get hit and those that I miss would still attack and move around. Ok, I get this part. Not the best power in the game but I get its use because I can just attack the ones that are attacking/running.
But the dev made it that if the mobs get hit with DS, they would STILL attack/run just like the the ones I miss. It is highly annoying as I need to figure out which ones are actually "hurting" me and which doesn't.
Is this a bug with DS or it is intended? If this is intended, then I have to congratulate him/her for making Dimension Shift even WORSE than before... I never know it can get any more worse.
PS: In fact, I haven't seen DS in use for such a long time. I remember the affected ones would just stand there doing nothing but I am not 100% sure about it anymore.
Now it is ok if you use DS for running away but so is aoe sleep or aoe knockback. It doesn't take much to run away.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.