Quote:
My stalker just hit 50 is now enjoying his time in RV.
|
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
Whats with the recent rise in clueless complaints about stalkers, i mean of all things you would think clueless people would post about doms. lol.
|
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
To be fair, I'm thinking that instead of nerfing the sharks, we should buff the other patron pools.
Let's take a look at this; if you pick Leviathan Mastery you can get a hold that does -fly and a half-decent DoT, a half-decent ranged attack and HIBERNATE.
And you can also get a waterspout and Coral Stony Pet. I guess they're kinda nifty.
Mace mastery?
A hold that does -fly and no damage. There's some -recharge in there as well so a stalker could stack that with spines. If they wanted to.
And then you also get the ranged attack, snipe, aoe attack and pet. In this case, three pets. Spiderlings. Which are fairly cool. But not that useful for a stalker in pvp.
The other 2.
Ranged attack, snipe, hold and a pet.
Instead of the aoe attack that Mu Mastery gets, Soul Mastery gets you Shadow Meld for 15 seconds of extra defence. Shame about Diminishing Returns.
Huh...though if it immediately dropped the stalker back into Hidden status when it was used...that might make it comparable to Leviathan Mastery in desirability.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, why nerf Leviathan when they could be making the other 3 patron pools better?
Because it's easier.
Well, yeah.
But why always the nerfing? Let's drag the rest of the poppies up rather than chopping down the tall one!
Eastern Standard Time (Australia)
is 15 hours ahead of
Eastern Standard Time (North America)
which is 5 hours behind
Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
Quote:
2 quick things to note:|
Originally Posted by Fenrisulfr
To be fair, I'm thinking that instead of nerfing the sharks, we should buff the other patron pools.
Let's take a look at this; if you pick Leviathan Mastery you can get a hold that does -fly and a half-decent DoT, a half-decent ranged attack and HIBERNATE. And you can also get a waterspout and Coral Stony Pet. I guess they're kinda nifty. Mace mastery? A hold that does -fly and no damage. There's some -recharge in there as well so a stalker could stack that with spines. If they wanted to. And then you also get the ranged attack, snipe, aoe attack and pet. In this case, three pets. Spiderlings. Which are fairly cool. But not that useful for a stalker in pvp. |
If you're using a patron pet on a stalker youre doing it wrong (they give away your location).
And, you're forgetting the one nice perk of Mace Mastery (-jump)
However you're right about them needing to buff moar, and nerf less.
Quote:
*snaps fingers*|
Originally Posted by Dread_Shinobi
2 quick things to note:
If you're using a patron pet on a stalker youre doing it wrong (they give away your location). And, you're forgetting the one nice perk of Mace Mastery (-jump) However you're right about them needing to buff moar, and nerf less. |
I always forget about the -jump.
Eastern Standard Time (Australia)
is 15 hours ahead of
Eastern Standard Time (North America)
which is 5 hours behind
Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
my post was never calling for a nerf to the set. ill i questioned was the crit the sharks have when shot from hide on a stalker. Really it does almost as much damage as any other attack a stalker has...(with the crit)
I dont think I ever said stalkers were OP'd in general because the fact is, solo, they are laughable. On a team or following around a team in RV, they shine... nothing like pounding on a Brute only to drop to ground after an AS hit you in the AS + S... :P
The OP was made out of frustration dealing with two stalkers hiding and sharking me in RV.
One would crit their shark, i would jump away when i could, then another one would hit... by this time the other one was hidden again hitting me with a ranged crit from sharks again...
All my post was saying is i think its a little OP'd with the crit considering its a PPP... I am not sure because i dont play them really, but i dont think a scrapper has anything for the mastery pool that can drop a corruptor to half health.
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gr33n
my post was never calling for a nerf to the set.
All my post was saying is i think its a little OP'd with the crit considering its a PPP. |
These are one and the same. If you say something is op, you want it nerfed, period.
Quote:
| I am not sure because i dont play them really |
Quote:
| but i dont think a scrapper has anything for the mastery pool that can drop a corruptor to half health. |
Also of note, tanks and scrappers both have alot more survivability than a stalker.
Edit:
Quote:
| I dont think I ever said stalkers were OP'd in general because the fact is, solo, they are laughable. On a team or following around a team in RV, they shine... nothing like pounding on a Brute only to drop to ground after an AS hit you in the AS + S... :P |
Stop making it easy for them, only reason to target a brute is to lure out the squishy targets. And yes that includes stalkers.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Quote:
Well, next issue BRAWL will cost 0 endurance, so yes, every AT will have access to a 0 endurance power, next!|
Originally Posted by Gr33n
the response i expected to get.... Stalkers QQ more than anyone.... you have the only power in the game that costs 0 endurance.... You are the only Archetype that has a for sure crit... You have placate...
I dont think PPP powers should crit under any circumstances. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fenrisulfr
To be fair, I'm thinking that instead of nerfing the sharks, we should buff the other patron pools.
Let's take a look at this; if you pick Leviathan Mastery you can get a hold that does -fly and a half-decent DoT, a half-decent ranged attack and HIBERNATE. And you can also get a waterspout and Coral Stony Pet. I guess they're kinda nifty. Mace mastery? A hold that does -fly and no damage. There's some -recharge in there as well so a stalker could stack that with spines. If they wanted to. And then you also get the ranged attack, snipe, aoe attack and pet. In this case, three pets. Spiderlings. Which are fairly cool. But not that useful for a stalker in pvp. The other 2. Ranged attack, snipe, hold and a pet. Instead of the aoe attack that Mu Mastery gets, Soul Mastery gets you Shadow Meld for 15 seconds of extra defence. Shame about Diminishing Returns. Huh...though if it immediately dropped the stalker back into Hidden status when it was used...that might make it comparable to Leviathan Mastery in desirability. Anyway, what I'm saying is, why nerf Leviathan when they could be making the other 3 patron pools better? Because it's easier. Well, yeah. But why always the nerfing? Let's drag the rest of the poppies up rather than chopping down the tall one! |
I feel the same way, I even suggested this on another topic, but some nerds said that I was wrong in thinking this way and that GAME BALANCE dictates that if something is performing better than something else then it's wrong and needs to be nerfed to **** and overcompensated to make it not even worth taking to correct it.
As one of the few remaining vet stalkers, I approve of statements provided by Macskull and Mel. Going one step further I will add that any stalker using a Shark crit over AS needs to screw his head back on. Revealing your position for that crap damage is simply idiotic and gets you killed. Shark is ok for a placate follow-up to AS, but a lead? I shudder at the new stalker mentality in zone.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Meldash_
[ QUOTE ]
i have played a lvl 50 stalker... so i know.... keep moving? when you can get ET'd with a crit? [/ QUOTE ] False. ET doesn't Crit with dmg, the crit = no dmg applied to the user. [ QUOTE ] Im not an idiot... and dont get me started on VEATS.... really when compared to HEATS.... its just sad... [/ QUOTE ] I hope you mean cause HEATS are so much better than VEATS in PvP now. Mainly PB's cause WS's are just bad. VEATS had their damage nerfed tremendously, and they have damn near 0 defense thanks to DR. With the mez changes they lost the last bit of mitigation they had. So yea...that is pretty sad. [ QUOTE ] Stalkers are one of the easiest archetypes to play... there is a small learning curve... not as easy as it seems... but with stealth and the IO.... its pretty damn easy... [/ QUOTE ] Define easy, that's where the argument usually starts. If you mean it's a toon that has a safer time of it, then yes...but if you mean it's a toon that can solo kill anything with little to no worries about dying then you're sorely mistaken. Yes stalkers are more survivable thanks to their inherent stealth capabilities, but that's about the only perk available to them...which will soon be gone once VEATS go Blue side and vice versa with stalkers going blue side...they'll be seen from further away and then perhaps being a stalker will be really hard...who knows? |
Quote:
I hope one wasn't me, but what you described sounds like it. Lately, been practicing dissecting hero huddles with a jumping shark attack against one of the foes. The attack is timed so that you fall behind terrain when it activates. The net result is a big glob of damage from seemingly nowhere. If the target runs (best case), you can chase and when hide is back up (thank you 8 sec timer), you can crit again doing even more damage. Since I'm spines, I can throw in a little more -movement. When stalkers see other stalkers attack targets, they have a tendency to focus fire, so... moar sharks.|
Originally Posted by Gr33n
my post was never calling for a nerf to the set. ill i questioned was the crit the sharks have when shot from hide on a stalker. Really it does almost as much damage as any other attack a stalker has...(with the crit)
I dont think I ever said stalkers were OP'd in general because the fact is, solo, they are laughable. On a team or following around a team in RV, they shine... nothing like pounding on a Brute only to drop to ground after an AS hit you in the AS + S... :P The OP was made out of frustration dealing with two stalkers hiding and sharking me in RV. One would crit their shark, i would jump away when i could, then another one would hit... by this time the other one was hidden again hitting me with a ranged crit from sharks again... All my post was saying is i think its a little OP'd with the crit considering its a PPP... I am not sure because i dont play them really, but i dont think a scrapper has anything for the mastery pool that can drop a corruptor to half health. |
The counter is easy, a hovering blaster can target the stalker and keep him out of hide and out of your hair. An emp can keep ya well healed. And finally, have that tanker taunt.
-Zoobait
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fenrisulfr
Soul Mastery gets you Shadow Meld for 15 seconds of extra defence. Shame about Diminishing Returns.
|
Shadow Meld is flat out huge in my build. I play an EA, and SM jumps my defense up from 28% to 42% with DR. Considering my T9 only puts me to 49%, a jump to 42% is significant. My ability to BU AS a target, Placate, Impale, pop invis, then SM allows for an aggressive play style with a defense toon with great odds of escaping even multiple followers. If you're spines who actually uses AS, its really a no brainer to pick up Soul Mastery over Leviathan.
I had SM with my /EA as well. However, it didn't perform like I hoped. Don't get me wrong, it does help. Before, demonic + SM + Overload = not gonna hit me. Now, and I tried the very same thing, it equals gonna be hit 30-40% of the time.
I have a spines/wp and debated sharks versus SM. After all, soul's dark blast is nice too, and it's hold is awesome as well. However, you can't beat sharks damage especially from hide. That's why lead with sharks (if zone pop is low).
If you sj behind terrain and activate sharks before you fall, especially if you are base-side of the opponent, you can get 2 'free' shark crit attacks. After the initial attack, he'll want to base-run (more times the naught) which lines you up for an impale or placate and shark #2. Sometimes the impale is better after shark #1 since it can tell you if he phased or not (or if your ears are keen you can listen for the tell-tale phase sound).
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Quote:
If you're solo, sure, sharks are lol. Like you said, the only time I'm using sharks is placated after an AS (while BU is still running, hopefully) or when a target is low on health and running and I know the crit shark will finish him off. When you're teamed and don't have a mezzer or KBer with you, it's a bit different - crit sharks from multiple Stalkers are a solid addition to any ranged spike. If you've got the mez or KB, then yeah, the AS/followup is a much more reliable and safer route.
|
Originally Posted by Warhamster
As one of the few remaining vet stalkers, I approve of statements provided by Macskull and Mel. Going one step further I will add that any stalker using a Shark crit over AS needs to screw his head back on. Revealing your position for that crap damage is simply idiotic and gets you killed. Shark is ok for a placate follow-up to AS, but a lead? I shudder at the new stalker mentality in zone.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Throwing my 2 cents in the ring.
I run an EM/Nin, I think I do moderately decently with it.
I Had Sharks Once.
I Was Outblasting blasters with it.
Only to realize that the 3 second animation was wrecking me.
Then I Died.
SM is an absolutely essential part of my build, puts me at around 44%(55% with Retsu) positional defence, Combined with my Retsu, which is up quite a bit thanks to my recharge and FoN; allows me to persue an EXTREMELY offensive playstyle. Anyone who plays in RV on freedom has prolly seen me, for a stalker, I beleive i do well.
Only time i personally think sharks are good is for coordinating shark crits, and even then, if theres someone to coordinate with, I am generally of the opinion that theres a better more efficent method of cooperation. RV isn't running low on cocky regen scrappers, Or bad flying sniper blasters.
Quote:
As said, the 3 sec activation time gives it moderate balance, it can get a kill here and there, but it's no AS.
|
Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
Only to realize that the 3 second animation was wrecking me.
|
Quote:
i'm sorry, but who the hell has a full-on teaming mentality in zones like RV? and, you won't always have that selection of heroes *willing to team with you* just to handle stalkers. this isn't pve where people actually seek out others' ATs to accomplish a task. you mainly go pvp solo. i've asked plenty times for teams with a "sry solo atm" tell being sent right back.
|
Originally Posted by Necromatic
I hope one wasn't me, but what you described sounds like it. Lately, been practicing dissecting hero huddles with a jumping shark attack against one of the foes. The attack is timed so that you fall behind terrain when it activates. The net result is a big glob of damage from seemingly nowhere. If the target runs (best case), you can chase and when hide is back up (thank you 8 sec timer), you can crit again doing even more damage. Since I'm spines, I can throw in a little more -movement. When stalkers see other stalkers attack targets, they have a tendency to focus fire, so... moar sharks.
The counter is easy, a hovering blaster can target the stalker and keep him out of hide and out of your hair. An emp can keep ya well healed. And finally, have that tanker taunt. -Zoobait |
Be glad that the stalkers are using shark...because if all of them actually started ASing you really would be fed. BTW, hai blood.
Quote:
That's too bad. I've gotten my best IO from a team in pvp (+def +res tp).|
Originally Posted by cocomilkshake
i'm sorry, but who the hell has a full-on teaming mentality in zones like RV? and, you won't always have that selection of heroes *willing to team with you* just to handle stalkers. this isn't pve where people actually seek out others' ATs to accomplish a task. you mainly go pvp solo. i've asked plenty times for teams with a "sry solo atm" tell being sent right back.
|
In the hero case, I shouldn't say team, more like a collection. If a controller lays down a patch, heroes tend to wind up there since it is more safe (in front of villain base for example). The result is more heroes laying down patches, or having there PBAoEs on, rains etc.
For stalkers, whether they are officially teamed or not, seem to operate on some coordinated level. For example, one stalkers runs forth to AS a target. They others see this and join in.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cocomilkshake
i'm sorry, but who the hell has a full-on teaming mentality in zones like RV?
|
Players who play to win and aren't nOObs. You might be surprised the quality of team you'll find if you look for one rather than complain that NOONE has a "full-on teaming mentality in zones like RV". In addition if you get picked up by a team , work well with them ,the next time you're in RV they will likely pick you up again if they have a spot open. Thats how you network and find players that do coordinate. You'll likely find some that don't as well. If you never try? You'll never know.
No offense.
i really hate to say this on here... for two reasons...
#1 defending the stalkers i am talking about (why they arent ASing me)
#2 the LOLz my power set choice will get..
but here it goes...
I pvp on a sonic/devices blaster. I leave caltrops out 90% of the time. So i get sharked by at least one stalker and then what ever else is out there...
sure i need to learn to pvp better... anyone on my server will tell you i dont deny that... but to say a PPP that crits for half a players health isnt at least a lil OP'd just isnt being honest.
I dont feel guilty or bad about asking/saying i think it's a lil OP'd... I said I thought the crit should be removed. I stand by that.. that would leave it unchanged for other ATs...
so you freedumb/test pvp gods, flame all you want... it effects me zero...
now a reply that informs and doesnt attack... i will listen to.. like ET not critting... had no clue.. i admit that...
If it makes you elite pvperz feel better, i get heat in RV over this thread also... but i get far more, even some stalkers that agree it is a lil OP'd with the crit...
i love to pvp and i have a blast doing it with the exception of a few who are just bad at being human beings...
The Devs are wanting to make PvP more newb friendly... so they say... Then maybe my feedback is a little more important than you elite/know everything pvperz think...
now flame all you want... the usuals can gang up and laugh... just know i will be laughing as well... and it will probably be at the same thing you are laughing at...
(leave me alone about my elipses)
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
Once you do learn to PvP better, as you say you need to do, then you'll see how you can improve your tactics and why stalkers aren't nearly the threat you say they are. If you're standing in a caltrop patch, then you aren't moving and thus make for a very easy target.
Sharks aren't OP'd. There are powers on both sides (Hi Blasters!) that can do same and/or very similar damage without needing a condition like Hide to leverage.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
A blaster getting with a crit from hide and losing half health is not exactly something to complain about, you have diminishing returns uping your resistance to near 40%, one ranged attack that takes half your life away isn't breaking the game since blasters can kill things just as quickly if not quicker with buildup/aim on. Especially if your a sonic blaster as you said you are. Half a blasters health is normally 700, a normal shark attack does about 300 plus a crit, and if they proc they take half the health away of a class that can then hop away aid self, buildup aim and eat through their hp. And they are nerfing the shark next issue. If you really cannot take getting hit by something that can kill you that much I reccomend waiting until the nerf rolls around.
fair enough... I have said all I have to say about this 
NOW!... lets nerf Doms!! 
kidding!
maybe i should just take a break for awhile... pvp can really get in your head if you let it.. it seems... seen lots of friendly situations turn ugly because of some pvp incident...
peace CoX!
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
Quote:
Wheres the link to the nerfing of the sharks in issue 16?
|
Originally Posted by Malech
A blaster getting with a crit from hide and losing half health is not exactly something to complain about, you have diminishing returns uping your resistance to near 40%, one ranged attack that takes half your life away isn't breaking the game since blasters can kill things just as quickly if not quicker with buildup/aim on. Especially if your a sonic blaster as you said you are. Half a blasters health is normally 700, a normal shark attack does about 300 plus a crit, and if they proc they take half the health away of a class that can then hop away aid self, buildup aim and eat through their hp. And they are nerfing the shark next issue. If you really cannot take getting hit by something that can kill you that much I reccomend waiting until the nerf rolls around.
|
It does, it just does the crit damage to yourself >.>
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."