Release Notes for Build 19.20090702.2 ~ 7/7/09
By
300_below,
Posted on: 2009-07-07 15:25 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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LOL, I can't imagine no one bugged that STF bug.
Methinks BaBs may have been out of the loop on it. 
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After a quick chat with Castle, no...it appears we weren't aware of this particular issue. He's chalking it up to some recent changes with AI and we're going to evaluate what might have changed and how it affects the task force.
I've done a bit of poking around on the forums and there appears to be conflicting reports on how much of an impact this is having. Some are saying it's now impossible, others have said that it's noticeable, but still manageable. Bottom line is, we're aware of it now and we're looking into whether or not anything needs to be changed.
For things like this, that have a very dramatic impact on game play, cause crashing, affect a lot of people, can be used as major exploits, etc...it'd be really helpful if you could bring those issues to the forums where they have a chance of being immediately and directly seen by us.
In game '/bug' reports go directly to QA in Austin, who shuffle through them, verify them, and add them into our bug tracking database before sending them our way where they get doled out to individuals to fix. That process can take a long time.
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As someone who uses /bug a lot ingame to report things I come across, I'm a bit saddened by this statement. If this is really the case, then I think you guys need to have an audit on how effective this process is going, no?
Relying on forums and PM's to a few high profile devs who may not even have any expertise on the exact issue is kind of..how best to describe it...amatuerish?.. No offence intended. This process wont work on a large scale. Imagine if Blizzard worked like this? This is simply ludicrous to demand players PM a dev or post bugs on the forum.
And yes, we know /bug is a slow process, try not to destroy what little faith we have in it.. 
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LOL, I can't imagine no one bugged that STF bug.
Methinks BaBs may have been out of the loop on it.
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After a quick chat with Castle, no...it appears we weren't aware of this particular issue. He's chalking it up to some recent changes with AI and we're going to evaluate what might have changed and how it affects the task force.
I've done a bit of poking around on the forums and there appears to be conflicting reports on how much of an impact this is having. Some are saying it's now impossible, others have said that it's noticeable, but still manageable. Bottom line is, we're aware of it now and we're looking into whether or not anything needs to be changed.
For things like this, that have a very dramatic impact on game play, cause crashing, affect a lot of people, can be used as major exploits, etc...it'd be really helpful if you could bring those issues to the forums where they have a chance of being immediately and directly seen by us.
In game '/bug' reports go directly to QA in Austin, who shuffle through them, verify them, and add them into our bug tracking database before sending them our way where they get doled out to individuals to fix. That process can take a long time.
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As someone who uses /bug a lot ingame to report things I come across, I'm a bit saddened by this statement. If this is really the case, then I think you guys need to have an audit on how effective this process is going, no?
Relying on forums and PM's to a few high profile devs who may not even have any expertise on the exact issue is kind of..how best to describe it...amatuerish?.. No offence intended. This process wont work on a large scale. Imagine if Blizzard worked like this? This is simply ludicrous to demand players PM a dev or post bugs on the forum.
And yes, we know /bug is a slow process, try not to destroy what little faith we have in it..
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*looks at 191 pages in Blizzards "Post your bug here" forum for WoW alone*
If you had only kept reading, BaB's commented further...
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I DID bug it, and I DID post on the forums about it. I don't know what else was expected.
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And we're very appreciative that you took the time to do so. I don't want you guys to infer that bugging things in game is useless, just that it's only one avenue to bring things to our attention. We get bugs from many sources. Sometimes they come from QA, sometimes they're pulled from the forums, other times they come from PMs or even personal experiences.
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EDIT: Added emphasis, because few companies rely solely on internal testing, as far as I know not a single MMO does.
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I can't say that no one knows about the bug, just that I personally hadn't heard about it and Castle hadn't heard about it either. It may be sitting in programmer land right now or our QA department might be verifying it. *shrugs*
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Maybe you should find out? I'm sure you're very busy, but "I dunno" is a pretty lame answer.
Whatever, I guess we should just get used to the bug. Just like my Bruiser will always stand at range and throw rocks, however long I play this game. /kvetch
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I can't say that no one knows about the bug, just that I personally hadn't heard about it and Castle hadn't heard about it either. It may be sitting in programmer land right now or our QA department might be verifying it. *shrugs*
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Maybe you should find out? I'm sure you're very busy, but "I dunno" is a pretty lame answer.
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If it were Castle's or Back Alley Brawler's job to fix it, then I agree that it should be high priority for them. However, it isn't. The folks who do QA and writing for the missions are not required to check in with the Powers folks (Castle and team) or the Animation folks (BAB and his assistants, if he has any) before they work on fixing a bugged mission.
Ask the right people, and you might get a more satisfactory answer.
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Whatever, I guess we should just get used to the bug. Just like my Bruiser will always stand at range and throw rocks, however long I play this game. /kvetch
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Haven't played your Thugs Mastermind in a while? This bug was fixed with Issue 14. Castle adjusted the pet AI and made pets immune to modifictions to their recharge, which was interfering with the way pets cycled their powers. Your Bruiser should be acting like a Brute, now.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Whatever, I guess we should just get used to the bug. Just like my Bruiser will always stand at range and throw rocks, however long I play this game. /kvetch
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Haven't played your Thugs Mastermind in a while? This bug was fixed with Issue 14. Castle adjusted the pet AI and made pets immune to modifictions to their recharge, which was interfering with the way pets cycled their powers. Your Bruiser should be acting like a Brute, now.
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They've also added some new tech designed to improve the AI of critters, or at least the part of the AI that decides what attacks to use. Its still relatively new and I don't know all of the details of how its being used, but I would expect to see changes and tweaks to AI over time which attempt to leverage the new technology.
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I can't say that no one knows about the bug, just that I personally hadn't heard about it and Castle hadn't heard about it either. It may be sitting in programmer land right now or our QA department might be verifying it. *shrugs*
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Maybe you should find out? I'm sure you're very busy, but "I dunno" is a pretty lame answer.
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If it were Castle's or Back Alley Brawler's job to fix it, then I agree that it should be high priority for them. However, it isn't. The folks who do QA and writing for the missions are not required to check in with the Powers folks (Castle and team) or the Animation folks (BAB and his assistants, if he has any) before they work on fixing a bugged mission.
Ask the right people, and you might get a more satisfactory answer.
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I would agree with this if BaB's hadn't spoken up about the specific issue from a position of authority.
An email internally to the right people to find out if it is actually known would be far better than replying with "meh"
I like BaBs quite a bit, but his first post in this thread asked for more information on the issue. That is effectively saying "how can I help you?"
His second post was questionable at best and seemed to undermine an established process. The confusion that has resulted was predictable and expected because it practically read: "don't bother with that department, send it right to me if you want the job done right"
His third post tried to correct what he'd already set in motion. But sort of like a famous Lighthouse post, once it is out of the bag it is pretty hard to put back in.
His newest "meh" post is what it is. He is trying to shrug off responsibility to help out, but he has already said "how can I help you?"
All well, I posted my thoughts on things just like this in another thread and got a response from Castle. It may be entirely unproductive, but at least it is entertaining.
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Life seems to be full of funny little ironies...
Of the four juggle emotes (balls, fire, magic and lightning) the only one I -never- use is the balls one which is the only one of the four now working when you Hover. The 3 of the 4 emotes that I'd actually want to work while Hovering still don't.
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I can't say that no one knows about the bug, just that I personally hadn't heard about it and Castle hadn't heard about it either. It may be sitting in programmer land right now or our QA department might be verifying it. *shrugs*
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Maybe you should find out? I'm sure you're very busy, but "I dunno" is a pretty lame answer.
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If it were Castle's or Back Alley Brawler's job to fix it, then I agree that it should be high priority for them. However, it isn't. The folks who do QA and writing for the missions are not required to check in with the Powers folks (Castle and team) or the Animation folks (BAB and his assistants, if he has any) before they work on fixing a bugged mission.
Ask the right people, and you might get a more satisfactory answer.
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Right. But I'm assuming he could maybe e-mail whoever would know and let us know what they say. He asked what bug, we explained, then he shrugs and slinks off. Well, I could have done that much. I'm not expecting him to fix it, just to maybe ask the appropriate people--this would have the added benefit of alerting them to the problem if they are equally unaware, so maybe it would someday get fixed somehow.
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Whatever, I guess we should just get used to the bug. Just like my Bruiser will always stand at range and throw rocks, however long I play this game. /kvetch
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Haven't played your Thugs Mastermind in a while? This bug was fixed with Issue 14. Castle adjusted the pet AI and made pets immune to modifictions to their recharge, which was interfering with the way pets cycled their powers. Your Bruiser should be acting like a Brute, now.
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Well....um...that's good news. How'd I miss that? Took a couple years but I can dig it. To be honest, I'd just been leaving the Bruiser out of the second upgrade buff. One serving of crow please. 
So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
Perhaps you should be taking out your frustration on those that were AFK farming the PvP IOs and not the devs for trying to curtail the behavior. Ya know, that whole "one bad apple spoils the bunch" thing.
How will these PVP changes work on getting credit towards the Fusion Generator Plans?
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
None, You should still be able to farm them. My SG got it in under 30 minutes just smacking each other over and over 
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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
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Perhaps you should calm down before posting ^^ They're trying to balance what little pvp there is in the game, not "kill" anything. Less emotion brings balance and rational thinking
-C.A.
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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
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Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.
This change doesn't help anyone get them and I highly doubt any casual pvp would ever get more than one by just jumping in and pvp'ing for a half hour a night.
Without a drop rate increase PO's may as well not exist for the vast majority of users.
Hey pvp'ers asked for rewards and we technically got them. We made the mistake of not specifying we actually wanted a meaningful chance of receiving them.
PvP IO's were not WAI and needed to be hit with pvp diminished returns and pvp suppression.
Organized rep farms will now be the best way to get them and a casual zone or arena pvp'er actually engaging in pvp may never see one.
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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
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Perhaps you should calm down before posting ^^ They're trying to balance what little pvp there is in the game, not "kill" anything. Less emotion brings balance and rational thinking
-C.A.
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One of the main reasons my friends (and basically the only reason that one of them) returned to the game was to be able to play essentially "custimzable characters" in PVP matches.
We had done this before but the lack of any tangible rewards for the effort vs the easily obtained rewards in PVE created some annoyance and essentially resentment towards the game.
The idea that you could gain rewards (recipies) through just PVP content was enough to entice them back to playing. (no need to grind PVE content that they loathe for the influence required to IO out their characters)
The "bug" introduced (evidentially deliberately by the Devs) a couple of weeks ago has already soured them on the game again, this idiotic nerf will almost certainly cause them to give up on CoX all over again.
So yes, as far as I am concerned this moronic move by the Devs will be yet another step towards killing PVP in this game.
As to "They HAD to fix farmers" ... OK so when will the patch come for PVE that limits the number of recipes you can get to one every 5 minutes or so with a timer that resets endlessly every time you kill a specific type of mob?
Oh wait, that would be an idiotic change that would probably kill the game now wouldn't it.
Sauce for the goose...
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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
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Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.
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Odd, my friends and I only play in PVP matches 2-3 hours a week ( a total of maybe 12 hours total over the past month) and I have seen personally 11 PVP recipes drop for my PVP character and my friends have all seen similar drops as well.
No farming, just arena matches between the four of us and yet we still felt "rewarded" for our PVP efforts.
Now we will essentially have to take pains to only kill a given person once every five minutes or we will essentially never see another recipe drop again?
I repeat.. Idiotic change.
While I can understand (to some degree) the "once every 5 minutes rule". The fact that the timer continuously resets every time you kill the person within that five minute period is what is truly idiotic about this change.
Now I have to keep track of who I have killed and who I haven't and when I can kill them again?
Idiotic.
Or else I suppose we can only do 5 minute matches with a 5 minute waiting period between them but that really isn't a fun way to play now is it?
What I would really like to know what moron on the Dev team thought up this "Brilliant" solution.
Perhaps the developers felt 11 pvp recipes (that are suppose to be as rare as purples) in a 12 hour span was too many.
Also, try less insulting and more objective reasoning to sway the minds of the devs bro. You're starting to make yourself look bad.
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Perhaps the developers felt 11 pvp recipes (that are suppose to be as rare as purples) in a 12 hour span was too many.
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As I said, I could understand dropping the chance to roll for a recipe to once every five minutes, it's the perpetually resetting timer that I consider to be ludicrous.
Not everyone has a pool of dozens of opponents to go after.
For small PVP groups like the one I participate in, this change is basically eliminating any chance of ever seeing a recipe again.
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Also, try less insulting and more objective reasoning to sway the minds of the devs bro. You're starting to make yourself look bad.
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Frankly, at this point I don't really care what the Devs think. As far as I am concerned, if this change makes it to the Live game PVP is dead.
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What I would really like to know what moron on the Dev team thought up this "Brilliant" solution.
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Probably the VP In Charge of Killing The Game. Because, OBVIOUSLY, there couldn't be any other reason for a decision like this.
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Frankly, at this point I don't really care what the Devs think. As far as I am concerned, if this change makes it to the Live game PVP is dead.
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That's funny. Oh well, I tried to help ya but if you wish to just /em trowhandsinair and give up, I won't stop ya.
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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
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Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.
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Odd, my friends and I only play in PVP matches 2-3 hours a week ( a total of maybe 12 hours total over the past month) and I have seen personally 11 PVP recipes drop for my PVP character and my friends have all seen similar drops as well.
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I agree the changes are poor, but you are either underestimated the hours you put in, exceptionally lucky, or you guys die like flies when you play.
11 drops =~1100 kills/12hrs = 92 kills an hour = 1.5 kills per minute.
Most 4 person, 20 minute matches don't have 120 kills.
If you are actively pvp'ing and scoring kills that fast you are far outside the norm.
The old rate was far too low for actual pvp, the new rate generally works out to be lower still.
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Frankly, at this point I don't really care what the Devs think. As far as I am concerned, if this change makes it to the Live game PVP is dead.
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That's funny. Oh well, I tried to help ya but if you wish to just /em trowhandsinair and give up, I won't stop ya.
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I'm sorry, you seem to be speaking as though you think that the Devs would actually listen to the player base?
I've been through enough PM arguments with Red Names from back when the game was first released through the ED changes to know that simply isn't the case.
I don't really care what they think because they almost certainly don't care what I think either.
My initial post here was more to confirm how I believed the new mechanics will run than to actually expect a Dev to take notice much less alter the intended changes.
My vitriol is from the simple fact that I alone of my friends actually like the PVE content and that it was the introduction of PVP recipes which enticed them back to the game (and thus allowed us to play something other than Halo together on-line).
I am certain beyond a doubt that this change to recipe drop rates, if implemented, will cause them to cancel their accounts again.
(... and so it's back to Halo on Friday nights again... Yay!)
Sadly, there is such a small PVP community in this game already that I doubt there will be much furor over this change when it hits.
The absolute die hards who PVP'd when there were no rewards at all will still play while many of those who came over to the PVP side with the enticement of rewards will softly and silently vanish away.
A fraction of a small fraction of the player base will hardly be a blip on anyone's spreadsheet at the NC office headquarters and believe me, the only way the devs ever seem to reverse themselves in this game are when their corporate masters take note of a major change in revenue.
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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?
That is idiotic.
Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.
I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.
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Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.
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Odd, my friends and I only play in PVP matches 2-3 hours a week ( a total of maybe 12 hours total over the past month) and I have seen personally 11 PVP recipes drop for my PVP character and my friends have all seen similar drops as well.
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I agree the changes are poor, but you are either underestimated the hours you put in, exceptionally lucky, or you guys die like flies when you play.
11 drops =~1100 kills/12hrs = 92 kills an hour = 1.5 kills per minute.
Most 4 person, 20 minute matches don't have 120 kills.
If you are actively pvp'ing and scoring kills that fast you are far outside the norm.
The old rate was far too low for actual pvp, the new rate generally works out to be lower still.
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1. We only play on Friday nights between 8pm and 11pm so I am fairly certain as to how much actual time was invested in PVP rounds.
2. We typically run custom arena rounds of 30 minutes each (as none of us care about ratings) set to maximum end recovery and no pool powers, travel powers or inspirations are allowed. We can be pretty brutal at taking each other out fairly quickly. We end up in the Cage stage for most sets but since each person in turn sets up the matches we see a variety of occasional other venues and power options from time to time.
3. I know exactly how many PVP recipes I have obtained, and while less certain of the numbers my friends have obtained, from what I have seen I don't believe my total was wildly out of balance with theirs.
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PVP Changes[*]Fixed a bug where you could sometimes attack a player as they respawn in an Arena match.
[*]Changed Dominator PVP damage bonus to compensate for the improved base damage.
[*]Fixed a bug where mez powers in PvP zones that were affecting NPCs were being limited to four seconds in duration.
[*]Fixed PvP rewards to function once again. Now, influence, inspirations, and other normal rewards occur on every PvP kill, while PvP IO recipes can only be rewarded on rep-valid kills.
[*]Fixed rep-validation to function in arenas, even though it doesn't give you any reputation in arenas.
[*]Also lowering the rep timer from 10 minutes to 5 minutes.[/LIST]
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Wow, look at all the remaining PvP IOs being bought up....can we say huge profits!
Good going for those who got the cheap bids in. All I know is the Villains side is damn near dried out already...lol
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See, that's the beauty of it. This is their answer to the "Farming Epidemic" that people keep screaming about.
Their solution is like doping the High School Prom's punch with date [censored] drugs to promote abstinence. While the choices and enjoyment have been removed, we all know someone's getting screwed by the end of the night.
Looks like it's time to Quad Box with cheap labor* and work those fields 3x as hard.
(It's amazing how much game farming you can buy from kids on summer vacation when you're running 6 accounts, 4 computers, and have an endless supply of Oreos and Ritalin)
(No, I'm not a monster, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.)
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Also, good to know that using /bug means absolutely nothing.
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It doesn't mean nothing. It just means level 1 tech support here is no different than level 1 tech support everywhere else.
I used to wonder why the /bug report box was so short. Now I believe that if the problem can't be completely explained in detail in the /bug box, its probably too complex for the /bug mechanism anyway.
For me personally, I /bug any bug for which if I were to take a picture of my screen and draw an arrow on it with the words "look here" it would be obvious what the problem was. If I can't do that in theory, I post or PM. Especially bugs that are non-trivial to reproduce, intermittent, or require more than casual knowledge of the game to understand is not "working as intended."
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