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*killed the quote pyramid*
See my example (i.e. repeatedly played through the content on numerous characters, yet it's not considered farmin'. I don't have the game on 'farm status'. Thus, not all forms o' repetition should be quantified as 'farming'.).
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I think you're missing my question, I'm more specifically looking why that's not considered farming. Rather, why is your definitely of farming correct and mine incorrect?
And I'll go ahead and say it again, I meant no disrespect for you in my previous statement. I just saw a challenge and decided to use it for its anecdotal qualities. Apologies if I did offend you.
P.S. This discussion has nothing to do with BMT before that's brought into the equation. I think Cobalt and I are mostly on the same page about what that channel is for.
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(Agreed on the P.S.)
And no, I understand what you are gettin' at. I just don't agree with it, per my example. Why isn't that considered a farm, yet all other forms o' repeatability must be quantified as such?
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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wow, i was really hoping this topic wouldnt come into this server and stay in the 50 thousand other threads there are on this topic.
(wasnt directing this at you cat, i just hit reply after your post.. sorry)
blah
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This is not at all new to the boards and comes about every so often...probably at least 2 or 3 times a year...
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FARMING IS TEH EBIL !!!! EONEONEOENE!!! 
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On a side note, despite my apparent rigid definition o' farmin', I could care less if you do it. However, don't bring it to me and expect a spiffy reply. If you can't take the time to read my /search message, I'm not goin' to take the time to be nice. Thems the breaks.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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Farming is doing anything over and over again. Farming exp, farming badges, farming IOs, farming radio/paper missions, farming streets (street sweeping), farming influence/infamy. It is all the same, and as Stray said, I have yet to hear someone prove objectively that any of the above is not farming.
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This
...and I add to that TF/SFs that are done repeatedly...I do the ITF over and over sometimes three or more times in one day -- mostly because I like them and don't even like the speed versions...but also because I get merits and a good random drop *while having fun*
I don't care about farming, I have a good farm mish blueside and I have a fire/kin...but I don't really use it...but I also never completed it so...
Heck I don't even care about peeps asking me to join and I even sometimes to hop on my kin (usually redside) to head in for some AE, tickets and money for the base.
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*killed the quote pyramid*
See my example (i.e. repeatedly played through the content on numerous characters, yet it's not considered farmin'. I don't have the game on 'farm status'. Thus, not all forms o' repetition should be quantified as 'farming'.).
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I think you're missing my question, I'm more specifically looking why that's not considered farming. Rather, why is your definitely of farming correct and mine incorrect?
And I'll go ahead and say it again, I meant no disrespect for you in my previous statement. I just saw a challenge and decided to use it for its anecdotal qualities. Apologies if I did offend you.
P.S. This discussion has nothing to do with BMT before that's brought into the equation. I think Cobalt and I are mostly on the same page about what that channel is for.
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(Agreed on the P.S.)
And no, I understand what you are gettin' at. I just don't agree with it, per my example. Why isn't that considered a farm, yet all other forms o' repeatability must be quantified as such?
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Why isn't what considered a farm? I'm afraid you've lost me on that one.
Unless you're referring to my statement about how it only matters on the same toon, and that's because I consider that enough of a variance to where it no longer counts as repeatable action. (Unless its the same exact build, which is sort of silly IMO)
Right now, I think we've just come to the agree to disagree point and leave it at that. After all, all we're really arguing is semantics, and that's what I was getting at when I asked if DF really wanted to open this can of worms. 
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*killed the quote pyramid*
See my example (i.e. repeatedly played through the content on numerous characters, yet it's not considered farmin'. I don't have the game on 'farm status'. Thus, not all forms o' repetition should be quantified as 'farming'.).
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're missing my question, I'm more specifically looking why that's not considered farming. Rather, why is your definitely of farming correct and mine incorrect?
And I'll go ahead and say it again, I meant no disrespect for you in my previous statement. I just saw a challenge and decided to use it for its anecdotal qualities. Apologies if I did offend you.
P.S. This discussion has nothing to do with BMT before that's brought into the equation. I think Cobalt and I are mostly on the same page about what that channel is for.
[/ QUOTE ]
(Agreed on the P.S.)
And no, I understand what you are gettin' at. I just don't agree with it, per my example. Why isn't that considered a farm, yet all other forms o' repeatability must be quantified as such?
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Why isn't what considered a farm? I'm afraid you've lost me on that one.
Unless you're referring to my statement about how it only matters on the same toon, and that's because I consider that enough of a variance to where it no longer counts as repeatable action. (Unless its the same exact build, which is sort of silly IMO)
Right now, I think we've just come to the agree to disagree point and leave it at that. After all, all we're really arguing is semantics, and that's what I was getting at when I asked if DF really wanted to open this can of worms.
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Fair enough, I can respect that.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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Everyone farms, get over it, and stop being hypocritical, yes, you too cobalt.
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Yeah, find me in a farm.
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Okay, I'll bite. Killing the same monster/GM more than once on the same toon would be considered farming monsters/GMs. Farming does not necessarily have anything to do with the reward received, its just the act of repeating an action more than once with little or no variation.
You may be against farming when its for xp, inf, merits, tickets, etc, but my argument is that there is no difference between that and any form of repetition, simply that it comes with varying degrees and rewards.
EDIT: And I'm going to go ahead and say it, because I see it coming. IBTL
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All this.
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Everyone farms, get over it, and stop being hypocritical, yes, you too cobalt.
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Yeah, find me in a farm.
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Okay, I'll bite. Killing the same monster/GM more than once on the same toon would be considered farming monsters/GMs. Farming does not necessarily have anything to do with the reward received, its just the act of repeating an action more than once with little or no variation.
You may be against farming when its for xp, inf, merits, tickets, etc, but my argument is that there is no difference between that and any form of repetition, simply that it comes with varying degrees and rewards.
EDIT: And I'm going to go ahead and say it, because I see it coming. IBTL
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All this.
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XD
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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Everyone farms, get over it, and stop being hypocritical, yes, you too cobalt.
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Yeah, find me in a farm.
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Okay, I'll bite. Killing the same monster/GM more than once on the same toon would be considered farming monsters/GMs. Farming does not necessarily have anything to do with the reward received, its just the act of repeating an action more than once with little or no variation.
You may be against farming when its for xp, inf, merits, tickets, etc, but my argument is that there is no difference between that and any form of repetition, simply that it comes with varying degrees and rewards.
EDIT: And I'm going to go ahead and say it, because I see it coming. IBTL
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All this.
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XD
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I didn't feel like quoting your "debate" in the following posts, as arguing with a wall never really goes anywhere, as proven above.
I'm rather pleased with how the discussion went. Aside from a few ruffled feathers and jokers, it was peaceable.
Thanks for taking the time to answer and give your feedback.
P.S. And for the record this has nothing to do with BMT specifically. That channel has a clear purpose.
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Everyone farms, get over it, and stop being hypocritical, yes, you too cobalt.
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Yeah, find me in a farm.
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Okay, I'll bite. Killing the same monster/GM more than once on the same toon would be considered farming monsters/GMs. Farming does not necessarily have anything to do with the reward received, its just the act of repeating an action more than once with little or no variation.
You may be against farming when its for xp, inf, merits, tickets, etc, but my argument is that there is no difference between that and any form of repetition, simply that it comes with varying degrees and rewards.
EDIT: And I'm going to go ahead and say it, because I see it coming. IBTL
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All this.
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XD
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I didn't feel like quoting your "debate" in the following posts, as arguing with a wall never really goes anywhere, as proven above.
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Just because you can't win doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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And for the record this has nothing to do with BMT specifically. That channel has a clear purpose.
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No no, thank you for realizin' this.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
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I didn't feel like quoting your "debate" in the following posts, as arguing with a wall never really goes anywhere, as proven above.
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Just because you can't win doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
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I can't really lose either, considering you never really said anything more than: 'I disagree with you, I'm right, you're wrong, that is all there is to it.'
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I didn't feel like quoting your "debate" in the following posts, as arguing with a wall never really goes anywhere, as proven above.
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Just because you can't win doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
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I can't really lose either, considering you never really said anything more than: 'I disagree with you, I'm right, you're wrong, that is all there is to it.'
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Apparently you missed everythin' that I said then. But then again, am I suprised? No.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
Don't read more into that than is specifically stated. I still think you deal too quickly with OT conversations and sometimes to harshly especially when nothing else is really going on.
That being said I don't know the circumstances behind why yet another channel was needed or why something was replaced.
I just think (and this again is my opinion) you should keep in mind the wants of the crowd it was created for. Their happiness determines its continued success or failure. I realize I represent just one opinion.
This too is off-topic.... :-D
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Don't read more into that than is specifically stated. I still think you deal too quickly with OT conversations and sometimes to harshly especially when nothing else is really going on.
That being said I don't know the circumstances behind why yet another channel was needed or why something was replaced.
I just think (and this again is my opinion) you should keep in mind the wants of the crowd it was created for. Their happiness determines its continued success or failure. I realize I represent just one opinion.
This too is off-topic.... :-D
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As you are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine and how I feel I should deal with people in the aforementioned channel. As always, if you have a complaint, take it to the channel creator and if deemed worthy, it'll be brought to my attention whether or not I should alter the way I perform moderator actions.
Additionally, I am well aware o' what people want. And I'm painfully aware o' what a very few vocal people want, in particular. However, when I hear from a fellow badger than they turned off the channel due to the overwhelmin' chatter in it, then it's no longer fulfillin' it's design and function. So I did somethin' about it. And will continue to do somethin' about it. Thems the breaks. Deal with it.
As for the circumstances, the original Champion BMT got griefed on numerous occasions and it became basically unusable, so two other channels sprung up. Those eventually got merged into the current BMT of Champion.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
Here's an example situation:
I was in DA today going around killing masks, because I just happened to be there doing a mission and I always spend a few min in there looking for masks if I have time (never in the zone at the appropriate level for actually farming drops). During my rounds I saw Adamastor, so I called for help. Cobalt was the first to respond (which he usually is). Why does he come to help? He doesn't need the badge, he doesn't really need just two merits, more than likely, so maybe it's to help out other players get their rewards. I've never seen him come kill a GM and not congratulate everyone else on their new shiny badge if they just earned it. If the reward is so small, or non-existant, can it really be considered farming? To me, and probably to Cobalt, it's about helping other players get what they need.
Farming, to me, and to some others, is all about what 'I' need. 'I' invite more people to join me because it will bump up the mob numbers and get more bosses, etc. I'm doing it because 'I' need the inf, or the drops, or the tickets, and I can't just wait to get those things by doing arcs with a team. If anyone else gets stuff because they happen to be tagging along, that's a bonus for them, but doesn't affect me.
YMMV. As other's have stated: I try not to care what others do, unless it's affecting me. Farming doesn't affect me unless I choose to let it. Most of the time, it doesn't.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Here's an example situation:
I was in DA today going around killing masks, because I just happened to be there doing a mission and I always spend a few min in there looking for masks if I have time (never in the zone at the appropriate level for actually farming drops). During my rounds I saw Adamastor, so I called for help. Cobalt was the first to respond (which he usually is). Why does he come to help? He doesn't need the badge, he doesn't really need just two merits, more than likely, so maybe it's to help out other players get their rewards. I've never seen him come kill a GM and not congratulate everyone else on their new shiny badge if they just earned it. If the reward is so small, or non-existant, can it really be considered farming? To me, and probably to Cobalt, it's about helping other players get what they need.
Farming, to me, and to some others, is all about what 'I' need. 'I' invite more people to join me because it will bump up the mob numbers and get more bosses, etc. I'm doing it because 'I' need the inf, or the drops, or the tickets, and I can't just wait to get those things by doing arcs with a team. If anyone else gets stuff because they happen to be tagging along, that's a bonus for them, but doesn't affect me.
YMMV. As other's have stated: I try not to care what others do, unless it's affecting me. Farming doesn't affect me unless I choose to let it. Most of the time, it doesn't.
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In regards to the GM example, absolutely.
"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer
The difference between Badge Farming and regular Farming is this: Badge farming gives you a minimal XP reward, bragging rights, and a shiny little icon in your Info box. Regular farming allows inexperienced players to jump from 1 to 50 with minimal effort. While doing TFs over and over again could be considered farming, experienced players generally are always found on them, and only the willing-to-learn newbie are usually found doing them, instead of the "This is too long/hard" noob who wants to get to 50 FAST.
Badge FARMING.
Influence FARMING.
Drops FARMING.
PVP Rep FARMING.
Heal FARMING.
What is the common denominator? Even a blind [censored] bat can see it. Justify it, put pretty labels on it or whatever else you want to, fact still remains its farming.
Some however in my book are worse than others. There are legal exploits in the game that allow players to obtain things that they didn't actually gain in the way that the game was intended. For example heal farming. Healers are supposed to get their healing badges by actually healing other hero's. Due to a little known "shortcut" people get their badges by heal farming while afk and not even playing the game. Is it wrong? Nope, its your 15 bucks. However you are delirious if you are looking down at the influence / xp farmer for doing the same thing you are, FARMING.
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I have 5 toons purpled to some extent. I haven't farmed for any of that influence.
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And you never stopped playing. How about those who'd like to compete who either, A. just started, or B. left for a period of time.
Things should just be compared objectively. I don't think you'd need to 'farm' for it. Long term vets have different situations than new people or those returning.
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I make far more money NOT playing than playing.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
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I have 5 toons purpled to some extent. I haven't farmed for any of that influence.
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And you never stopped playing. How about those who'd like to compete who either, A. just started, or B. left for a period of time.
Things should just be compared objectively. I don't think you'd need to 'farm' for it. Long term vets have different situations than new people or those returning.
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I make far more money NOT playing than playing.
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Ah to argue with a SG leader. Feels like old times. Only difference... you aren't blind.
Anyways, money or Influence, Ping? No one ever said anything about money. And if I did accidentally... It's cause I'm on a cell phone updating the Forum. (Yes, I'm aware how it looks updating forums remotely.)
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*killed the quote pyramid*
See my example (i.e. repeatedly played through the content on numerous characters, yet it's not considered farmin'. I don't have the game on 'farm status'. Thus, not all forms o' repetition should be quantified as 'farming'.).
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're missing my question, I'm more specifically looking why that's not considered farming. Rather, why is your definitely of farming correct and mine incorrect?
And I'll go ahead and say it again, I meant no disrespect for you in my previous statement. I just saw a challenge and decided to use it for its anecdotal qualities. Apologies if I did offend you.
P.S. This discussion has nothing to do with BMT before that's brought into the equation. I think Cobalt and I are mostly on the same page about what that channel is for.