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well, maybe if everyone did regular missions instead of AE all the time then there would be a steady flow of purples again. and with the bug going on with PvP drops right now, there are none to be put up in the market. they are both suppossed to be ULTRA rare. i drop ataleast 1 purple a day running regular missions. and 1 PvP recipe about evey 1-3 days depending on how much PvP i do.
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say what!!! 1 purple per day i've done 4 toons too lvl 50 the hard way with little teaming or 2-3 on team and that said toon is avile to get purp's for 4 lvl's and all i ever see is 1 MAYBE!!!! so do ya play for like 14 hrs a day or what???
and the drop lvl for all stuff needs fixing its way too low when what was at auction was going for 250 now nets 100k
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People are farming AE now and not the regular content. This means they aren't getting salvage drops.
There is no problem at all with drop rates
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Face it, the end goal of this game is to keep as many of us paying $15/month as they can. If they give us a "You Win" button, then there's nothing left to do, people quit, and the game dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
but if you get sick of grinding as i do and feel that by lvl 50 at least one power should be uber and your influence bank and merit bank empty the day you slot all that up in 1 power is fine
what i expect from a good game is not what is being played out now --grind --grind --no real end game or chance to earn uber rares but grind --GRIND!! that kinda play makes me think of--say other games that reward my long play
merits should have been
save all of them during toons life and get one set uber rare at the least!!
quote from memory for other topic on merits --you can play all the tf's in game once and do most of all the story arc's in game and all you will have the ability to get after that with merits is 1!! set!! of regular named IO's
that is where i see a fix is needed --not in real world drop rate
just fix merits to --"ohh I play this TF and that stuff for this long or so I CAN get what i want
not GRIND -- GRIND maybe!!!!
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Still, changing team drop rates wouldn't affect soloists one bit, and it would increase the rewards for those that do team, whether it be PUG or group of close friends.
Kinda sad, the thread became yet another farm thread. I thought the market forum might be better than the rest of the forums at keeping things on track.
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Hrm.....if changing team drop rates won't affect soloists, then why would the drop rate of the soloist affect teams in the first place? The logic should go both ways.
Anyways, the point is teams are already more efficient in many aspects of the game. Would you rather the other way around...no XP bonus, but drop rate bonus for teams?
Just a thought...have you ever considered simply putting more effort and time into getting the items you want? Just making sure all the bases were covered.
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1: Currently, drop rates for soloing are fine. The suggestion I'm making specifically is for teams. You CAN change one without changing the other, by adding in a multiplier for teams, which is what the thread was about if you had bothered to read it.
2: And now you try to make it a zero-sum game, where something ust be lost to have something else gained. A large part of the point is that teaming actually penalizes a person as far as salvage and recipe drops go. I would like to close the gap between a soloist and a dedicated team player a bit. It STILL wouldn't even be close, but it would be closer.
3: 2 accounts. 4-5 hours a night. Often 2-boxing. Off and on for the last 5 years. Does that meet your criteria? Have you considered your own assumptions carefully? Just covering all the bases.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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1: Currently, drop rates for soloing are fine. The suggestion I'm making specifically is for teams. You CAN change one without changing the other, by adding in a multiplier for teams, which is what the thread was about if you had bothered to read it.
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the current setup works fine, there's no reason to change it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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1: Currently, drop rates for soloing are fine. The suggestion I'm making specifically is for teams. You CAN change one without changing the other, by adding in a multiplier for teams, which is what the thread was about if you had bothered to read it.
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The main point of contention is...why should teams have both an XP and drop multiplier? Teaming already allows you to get merits and other rewards more efficiently than soloing. Merits itself can be considered a drop, which is severely lacking in solo play. We just have to disagree then. You think solo drop rates are fine, and I think team drop rates are fine.
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2: And now you try to make it a zero-sum game, where something ust be lost to have something else gained. A large part of the point is that teaming actually penalizes a person as far as salvage and recipe drops go. I would like to close the gap between a soloist and a dedicated team player a bit. It STILL wouldn't even be close, but it would be closer.
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Where's your concern for the dedicated soloist? How are they suppose to get merits efficiently? Where's their increase in flashback merits? It's a zero-sum game because a single playstyle shouldn't be more efficient at everything.
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3: 2 accounts. 4-5 hours a night. Often 2-boxing. Off and on for the last 5 years. Does that meet your criteria? Have you considered your own assumptions carefully? Just covering all the bases.
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This means nothing because you haven't listed what you have actually done to earn the top-end items. Have you tried anything else? Solo farming? Market PvPing? If you 2-box...have you farmed for PvP recipes in arena? AE ticket rolls?
Here's my assumption. Let's see if I got this right. You chose to team because of the increase in XP and the merits. You got greedy. Now, you also want more drops with teams. You feel entitled to be able to earn everything from simply teaming. Because you don't like to farm or use the market or won't sacrifice XP gain, you don't do much outside of teaming. You have a ton of alts and spread your wealth too thin trying to equip them all, rather than just focusing all of your effort on gearing up one character. You can't seem to grasp the concept that different playstyles may be required between leveling alts to 50 and getting gear for them. You also can't seem to grasp the difference between "want" and "need" with regards to IOs.
That close enough?
I generally split my time between AE farming with my main and a lowbie alt, getting tickets for recipes, and running that same main (dark./dark brute, 50, hundreds of hours played) through my favorite farm spot, slaughtering my way through Arachnos and Crey, including a large number of bosses, at the bottom of the Fab. I will log on other characters, but that's the way I spend most of my time.
The brute, by the way, has a bit over 450 million on him, still needs a few purples and 3 LotG +recharge to finish the dream build I have for him in Mids. I haven't bought any purples for him because, honestly, he gets them enought that I know the ones he needs will show up. Patience, understand?
Your assumption is that you have the first clue as to my motivations. You don't, but that isn't a surprise. I genuinely want to improve the game overall, but you will never understand why, I think. It has nothing to do with greed or entitlement.
Want to make a few more wild, uneducated, baseless guesses about me personally? Hey, you did get the "ton of alts" thing right, you're doing well.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
Well then, how is any of this an "improvement" to the game other than to perpetuate the notion that leveling to 50 in and of itself should be rewarded with all sorts of top-end items? The reward to leveling a character to 50 is simply having a level 50 character and nothing else.
There is a crystal clear concept: actions that (most efficiently) level a character are seperate from actions that (most efficiently) gain items for that character. This ideology has been around MMOs for a very long time.
By having an XP multiplier, but NOT drop multiplier in teams, is the devs way of suggesting that teaming should be the optimal choice for gaining levels, not drops. Again, this notion has been around for awhile. How many MMOs even have a drop multiplier for teams?
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A padded map is effectively equivalent to killing larger mobs in a hazard zone. More enemies, no teammates.
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Yes.
The rate is the same. The farmer just eliminates all his competition.
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If the devs wanted to kill this practice it would be very easy to do, basically you would see how many the map was set for, allocate the drop to one of the people it was set for and if they're not on the map, the drop disappears. The fact that they haven't indicates they're not worried about it.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Just want to point out that prestige is not affected by a team multiplier either.
The Devs have been specific in what teaming boosts, it is not like drops were an oversight.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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A padded map is effectively equivalent to killing larger mobs in a hazard zone. More enemies, no teammates.
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Yes.
The rate is the same. The farmer just eliminates all his competition.
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If the devs wanted to kill this practice it would be very easy to do, basically you would see how many the map was set for, allocate the drop to one of the people it was set for and if they're not on the map, the drop disappears. The fact that they haven't indicates they're not worried about it.
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Hardly. I submit Psychic Shockwave as an example. They may just not have had time as yet, as that would be a significant recoding.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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the current setup works fine, there's no reason to change it.
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Under that logic, though, Goat, there is no reason or need to ever change or add anything to the game. The devs needn't do anything except bug fixes, ever, because the game as a whole works fine as it is.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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Well then, how is any of this an "improvement" to the game other than to perpetuate the notion that leveling to 50 in and of itself should be rewarded with all sorts of top-end items? The reward to leveling a character to 50 is simply having a level 50 character and nothing else.
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Still stuck on purples. You really don't understand how much a small change like this would affect things. All you can see is "OMG, the purple drop rate would go up" and you fail to understand that the limitation inherent in purple drops already would make them the LEAST affected of everything. But fine. It would help, slightly, the low supply of everything red side. Blue-side, it would do the same and probably actually start driving prices on the low- and mid-range IOs down. High-end stuff would still more than likely have far more demand than supply, and the game-wide drop rate for purples would hardly change at all, meaning they would still be ultra rare and highly sought after.
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There is a crystal clear concept: actions that (most efficiently) level a character are seperate from actions that (most efficiently) gain items for that character. This ideology has been around MMOs for a very long time.
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Maybe. So had the idea that creating incentives to team, or even putting roadblocks up that a player NEEDS a team to advance past. CoH is already very much solo-friendly, having thrown out the concept that players must be forced to team. Just because it is done elsewhere, does not make it a good idea. We're talking about THIS game, which has done a lot of things that broke out of the standard MMO model.
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By having an XP multiplier, but NOT drop multiplier in teams, is the devs way of suggesting that teaming should be the optimal choice for gaining levels, not drops. Again, this notion has been around for awhile. How many MMOs even have a drop multiplier for teams?
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Where is your source for what the devs are suggesting? To my knowledge, the red-names have NEVER said anything like what you just decided it must mean.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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Face it, the end goal of this game is to keep as many of us paying $15/month as they can. If they give us a "You Win" button, then there's nothing left to do, people quit, and the game dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
but if you get sick of grinding as i do and feel that by lvl 50 at least one power should be uber and your influence bank and merit bank empty the day you slot all that up in 1 power is fine
what i expect from a good game is not what is being played out now --grind --grind --no real end game or chance to earn uber rares but grind --GRIND!! that kinda play makes me think of--say other games that reward my long play
merits should have been
save all of them during toons life and get one set uber rare at the least!!
quote from memory for other topic on merits --you can play all the tf's in game once and do most of all the story arc's in game and all you will have the ability to get after that with merits is 1!! set!! of regular named IO's
that is where i see a fix is needed --not in real world drop rate
just fix merits to --"ohh I play this TF and that stuff for this long or so I CAN get what i want
not GRIND -- GRIND maybe!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Use the market, then.
I play it for about 25-30 minutes a day, tops. and I have almost an entire purple set bought now. plus 70 mil stil I'm using to start building my fortunes again.
Not that I think you'll listen, as you're probably one of those types who wants "everything right nao because I need it"
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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Hardly. I submit Psychic Shockwave as an example. They may just not have had time as yet, as that would be a significant recoding.
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Even better example: Energy Transfer. I'm pretty sure that's the longest standing thing they've changed quite so dramatically.
There's definitely no merit in the "they would have done it by now" argument. There almost certainly never was, but these days we have some very stand-out examples of it not being true.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I doubt marketeers want drop rates up. Hurts their business. Wrong forum to ask about higher drop rates.. 
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the current setup works fine, there's no reason to change it.
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Under that logic, though, Goat, there is no reason or need to ever change or add anything to the game.
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if something isn't working, it should be changed.
if you want to keep current players involved and attract new ones, you need to add stuff to the game.
things that work fine, like drop rates, simply don't need adjusting.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
It depends very much on the type of marketeer. Niche flippers like things with low drop rates. However, drop rates are largely irrelevant to people who act as producers (farmers, common IO crafters, etc.). For them, higher drop rates mean lower prices, but higher volume.
There is a point of course where no one who sells on the market wants supply to increase too far, because if supply swamps demand then no one will be able to sell things. From the persepctive of people who want to buy things, that's fine so long everything does that, because then there's essentially a free supply of whatever they want. However, as long as some things don't get that kind of supply, then all the other things that do cease to become viable stepping stones to the still-rare items.
If I can sell 100 things for a million inf, I can still (maybe) buy a 100M inf purple, even though it's slow going. But if all my stuff is selling for 10k? That's a much harder mountain to climb.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I doubt marketeers want drop rates up. Hurts their business.
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change = opportunity.
tickets & weighting essentially supercharged the drop rates of 'the good stuff'. Which made a lot of us a whole bunch of inf.
I don't think they were a good idea or that they were well implemented, but I made a giant pile of inf off their effect on the market anyway.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Face it, the end goal of this game is to keep as many of us paying $15/month as they can. If they give us a "You Win" button, then there's nothing left to do, people quit, and the game dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
but if you get sick of grinding as i do and feel that by lvl 50 at least one power should be uber and your influence bank and merit bank empty the day you slot all that up in 1 power is fine
what i expect from a good game is not what is being played out now --grind --grind --no real end game or chance to earn uber rares but grind --GRIND!! that kinda play makes me think of--say other games that reward my long play
merits should have been
save all of them during toons life and get one set uber rare at the least!!
quote from memory for other topic on merits --you can play all the tf's in game once and do most of all the story arc's in game and all you will have the ability to get after that with merits is 1!! set!! of regular named IO's
that is where i see a fix is needed --not in real world drop rate
just fix merits to --"ohh I play this TF and that stuff for this long or so I CAN get what i want
not GRIND -- GRIND maybe!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Use the market, then.
I play it for about 25-30 minutes a day, tops. and I have almost an entire purple set bought now. plus 70 mil stil I'm using to start building my fortunes again.
Not that I think you'll listen, as you're probably one of those types who wants "everything right nao because I need it"
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"Not that I think you'll listen, as you're probably one of those types who wants "everything right nao because I need it"
did i "even "say or imply that i want everything "right now" humm no what i said is --that even getting one set now for a casual player who does not grind or have tons of time and note paper to 'play"the market is impossible
all i have said is that there may need to be a new way or an adjusted way to guarantee certain rewards for time played instead of maybe soon you might kinda someday sorta get a chance to find some we have now
this you'll get it soon if you play and wait reminds me of statesman's enhancement diversification speech 4 years back or so SOON! from him meant 3 years of crap gimped toons
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all i have said is that there may need to be a new way or an adjusted way to guarantee certain rewards for time played instead of maybe soon you might kinda someday sorta get a chance to find some we have now
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there is a "guaranteed" way to get certain rewards for (very minimal) time played.
It's called the market.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Hardly. I submit Psychic Shockwave as an example. They may just not have had time as yet, as that would be a significant recoding.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even better example: Energy Transfer. I'm pretty sure that's the longest standing thing they've changed quite so dramatically.
There's definitely no merit in the "they would have done it by now" argument. There almost certainly never was, but these days we have some very stand-out examples of it not being true.
[/ QUOTE ]
How long has it been since that change/nerf? I'm STILL upset about it, probably always will be...
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I doubt marketeers want drop rates up. Hurts their business. Wrong forum to ask about higher drop rates..
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'
Exactly the reason I brought it here. I wouldn't get very good feedback if I put it anywhere else. So far, the majority of the arguments against center around the effect it would have on purple recipes, with almost no mention of how it would affect rare salvage, desirable Pool A like Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike, or even the way people choose to spend their time playing. Even at 2x drop rate, teaming would still be less rewarding as recipe and salvage drops go, but increasing the rewards a bit could ease the strong DISINCENTIVE to team.
I found myself thinking today that perhaps the devs aren't picking solo play OR teams as a "baseline' drop rate. The devs have the resources to datamine the game as a whole. I wonder if they have the sophistication to figure out the normal reward rates for farming vs. running solo missions vs. 8-man teams. I honestly don't know how good their datamining algorithms are, and that's the sort of thing I don't expect them to ever reveal. If the drop rate OVERALL is what they're aiming for, then this suggestion is dead in the water, unless they want to use it to encourage teaming.
If they are concerned with individual reward rates, solo vs. teamed, then they might indeed take a look at this as a way to nudge things a bit closer to parity. Only the devs know exactly what they're aiming for, but after considering it, I have no reason to believe that they are looking at anything other than overarcing, game-wide drop rates for things.
Edited- typos.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
I for one would welcome a small increase, simply because that means another market shake-up, and that's when I have the easiest time making big jumps in my riches. Change = recallibration, which is where risk-takers can benefit most easily.
RagManx
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
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I for one would welcome a small increase, simply because that means another market shake-up, and that's when I have the easiest time making big jumps in my riches. Change = recallibration, which is where risk-takers can benefit most easily.
RagManx
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I wonder... Is it safe to assume that as a whole, people solo more during the week and team more when there are more people on during the weekend? If anything, this would make the weekday/weekend price fluctuations even more pronounced, if it were true. Just a thought for the risk-takers.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
[ QUOTE ]
well, maybe if everyone did regular missions instead of AE all the time then there would be a steady flow of purples again. and with the bug going on with PvP drops right now, there are none to be put up in the market. they are both suppossed to be ULTRA rare. i drop ataleast 1 purple a day running regular missions. and 1 PvP recipe about evey 1-3 days depending on how much PvP i do.
[/ QUOTE ]
say what!!! 1 purple per day i've done 4 toons too lvl 50 the hard way with little teaming or 2-3 on team and that said toon is avile to get purp's for 4 lvl's and all i ever see is 1 MAYBE!!!! so do ya play for like 14 hrs a day or what???
and the drop lvl for all stuff needs fixing its way too low when what was at auction was going for 250 now nets 100k