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Change Vigilance to Determination.
Determination = The less endurance the defender has, the less his powers cost to use (similar to how Defiance used to work, ie. as Blaster health decreased, attacks did more damage).
Simple. It allows the Defender to have Endurance when the team needs him, and it increases damage output by allowing the Defender to attack longer, while maintaining damage output relative to other ATs.
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Numerically that works out the same as just reducing the endurance cost of all powers across the board.
What I've suggested in the past is that each Defender added to the team increases the effect of inspirations used by anyone. The first Defender would add a 10% buff, the second 8%, the third %6, and so on, up to a maximum 30% buff (or whatever number). When fighting solo the Defender would always have the base 10% buff.
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Now thats a way cool idea. I really like that!
I don't see what all the hoo rah about negligence is all about. I find it to be a perfect power, just get on a pug everyone dies, my DD goes to town cleans up the area..until one is left gather the bodies hit howling twilight. WHo needs stamina?
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
I would just directly raise the damage, honestly. I don't know that endurance has ever been the problem of any of my defenders, but then, I build with that sort of thing in mind.
Give us a recharge bonus and you run the risk of making kin/ even more absurd than it already is.
Raising the damage multiplier of the defender would give everyone the same increase without accidentally favoring one power set over another.
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Raising the damage multiplier of the defender would give everyone the same increase without accidentally favoring one power set over another.
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A higher base damage would benefit sets with a means of increasing damage more than sets without such means. What I mean is, Empathy and Force Fields won't see as much from an increase to base damage as all the other sets will, because the other sets can multiply that increase.
I'm not giving an opinion on the idea. I'm just pointing out that a damage increase wouldn't be as egalitarian as you make it sound.
Bye, everybody!
*Champion*
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Raising the damage multiplier of the defender would give everyone the same increase without accidentally favoring one power set over another.
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A higher base damage would benefit sets with a means of increasing damage more than sets without such means. What I mean is, Empathy and Force Fields won't see as much from an increase to base damage as all the other sets will, because the other sets can multiply that increase.
I'm not giving an opinion on the idea. I'm just pointing out that a damage increase wouldn't be as egalitarian as you make it sound.
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See, I don't have an issue there. The sets that can do more damage are doing more damage already.
I'm having trouble thinking of ways to improve Vigilance, mostly because the other inherents either improve what the class should be doing according to the devs, or helps bridge a gap in the way the class plays.
If defenders are supposed to join teams, and help keep the team out of harm, then why does the inherent only kick in when the defender is slacking (or neglecting their defending duties)? How does Vigilance aid a solo defender? Or do the devs intend the defenders to always team up?
I've seen some suggestions thrown out, and I'd like to try to add my own. It's very difficult to think of something that would benefit all the powersets without making a few overpowered or having too little impact on others.
<ul type="square">[*]Adding +recharge - people have stated that it would be of little use to some primaries, like FF/ or Rad/, and that some secondaries would see minimal improvement[*]Adding +buff or +debuff - either one alone would make half the primaries OP, and be of virtually no use to the other half. Adding both would make defender primaries nearly OP. Additionally, if either/both were based on the team's average health, then people would purposely let the team get low so they could get the most benefit[*]Adding +damage - a flat amount would see a much larger increase from the sets designed to increase damage output than the sets that didn't. Basing it on team health would again lead some people to let the team suffer so that they could see bigger numbers from themselves (old version of Defiance, based on team health)[/list]
Some things I've thought about:<ul type="square">[*]Combining the +damage per member with +(de)buff per member - what if defenders got a moderate boost to damage while solo or on a small team, and received a (de)buff boost on larger teams? Something like +30% damage while solo, lowering until the 5th member is added and the defender's damage drops to current levels. On the same note, they begin to get a (de)buff boost when the third person is added, and tops out at the 8th person. The actual numbers for each (de)buff would have to be weighed, but something like 5% for the 3rd member up to 30% for the 8th member. The description would be something like, 'On your own, you have to look out for Number one, but on a team, you divert your focus from yourself to your teammates.'
....Point: solo defenders get a boost to damage, making it easier to solo, while a teamed defender gets better (de)buffs, making it easier to keep the team alive
....Counter-point: some people will stop teaming altogether so that they can get bigger numbers, and then complain that the game is too hard, while others won't play unless they are guaranteed a large team, and eventually give up on the AT as a whole
[*]An end discount based on size of team - I wonder why defenders weren't given an end discount based on team size instead of basing it on team health. As the size of the team grows, the defenders duties multiply, and so they need to spread things out more, requiring more focus. If they get an end discount based on the team size, something like 5% solo, up to 55% for an 8-man team, then they should have ample amounts of end to use in their defending.
....Point: defenders who team up often would have less of a percieved 'need' to get Stamina
....Counter-point: people will insist on getting full teams (which isn't necessarily bad); the defender might team up only to go off on their own and blast something down with a virtually unlimited end bar, removing the need to rest and potentially increasing their time spent (dirt)napping; devs may see it as way OP; EDIT: if this were viable, why didn't the devs implement it in the first place?[/list]
Granted, my points aren't the greatest, and some might even interpret the points as counters and vice versa. But I was bored during my lunch break at work one day and jotted down some thoughts I had on the subject.
Some interesting ideas there. One thing that's come to light in another thread I'm involved in is that Defender buffs are additive, and don't diminish with multiple applications (as happens with enhancements, for example).
Something I'd like to see considered is enabling buffing sets to buff themselves. I'm thinking this might require making a change so the buffs suffer diminishing returns...
Just thinking out loud, I've not thought it through much and it's late...
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Some interesting ideas there. One thing that's come to light in another thread I'm involved in is that Defender buffs are additive, and don't diminish with multiple applications (as happens with enhancements, for example).
Something I'd like to see considered is enabling buffing sets to buff themselves. I'm thinking this might require making a change so the buffs suffer diminishing returns...
Just thinking out loud, I've not thought it through much and it's late...
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Buffs that don't require a target already do effect the Defender. It's simply that you can not target yourself.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Speaking as a 5 year FFer, I can do PLENTY with more Recharge. Anyone that says differently is playing FF wrong.
What I mean is that Defenders with debuffing powers benefit from their entire power set. That is, the debuffs are beneficial to the team, but ALSO to the solo Defender.
Buffs, such as Force Fields, are no use to the Defender, only his team. I'm trying to come up with a proposal that will allow him to buff himself (whether it be bubbles, Clear Mind, O2, or what have you).
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What I mean is that Defenders with debuffing powers benefit from their entire power set. That is, the debuffs are beneficial to the team, but ALSO to the solo Defender.
Buffs, such as Force Fields, are no use to the Defender, only his team. I'm trying to come up with a proposal that will allow him to buff himself (whether it be bubbles, Clear Mind, O2, or what have you).
[/ QUOTE ]It was already explained to you why that is a terrible idea in the other thread.
No, it wasn't. It's something that only just came up recently.
Also, it's something that is only the beginning of an idea. I've not considered how to make it balanced and viable yet.
New Defender Inherent:
Scaling defense for self in accordance with how many teammates you have!
0 teammates= 20% def all
1 teammate= 15%
2 teammates= 10%
3 teammates= 8%
4 teammates= 6%
5 teammates= 4%
6-8 teammates = 0%
Meh, I don't even particularily like this idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
The problem with that idea is that is reduces the desire to team. Further, it's been suggested that debuffing Defenders are in good shape, and have no need for a defense boost.
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it's been suggested that debuffing Defenders are in good shape, and have no need for a defense boost.
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The same logic could be applied to any sort of boost. "Debuffing defenders are in good shape, and have no need for a recharge boost" "Debuffing defenders are in good shape, and have no need for a damage boost".
The point I'm making is that it's the buffing Defenders that need a boost. Buffing the class a a whole will buff characters that don't need a buff.
How about something like dominaiton but when it builds up it gives you teammates a large def/res buff and gives you a large damage buff. So every once in awhile a defender can forget about buffing/debuffing and destroy something.
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Also, it's something that is only the beginning of an idea. I've not considered how to make it balanced and viable yet.
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It's lovely to see that you have such high regard for yourself 
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Also, it's something that is only the beginning of an idea. I've not considered how to make it balanced and viable yet.
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It's lovely to see that you have such high regard for yourself
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I don't understand, have I said or done something to you personally that warrants such a snide comment?
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I don't understand, have I said or done something to you personally that warrants such a snide comment?
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Well ...
You're posting in the Defender Forum, but you don't seem to understand how defenders work. And you really don't seem to understand how defenders work together.
Defenders can fill in each others' weak spots. All-defender teams are among the most powerful that can be put together in the game, and all-defender teams don't need /enhancements/ in their powers, let alone set bonuses, to be powerful.
That's the trade-off for not being able to self-buff or tear through PvE content at the same speed as a scrapper. 8 random scrappers on a team with good builds but red SOs will have no end, little damage, and no survivability.
Ah, I see. Not knowing something, and wanting to consider what effects an idea might have before posting it is sufficient personal affront to you to warrant sarcasm.
Forgive me for wanting to think first.
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I still think we should get a recharge bonus instead. It would allow us to use all of our powers faster, both offensively and defensively.
If you ask me, a recharge bonus would make more sense for an inherent called "Vigilance" than endurance reduction. I can pop a blue to get endurance. I can't pop an inspiration to make my powers come back faster.
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with the vast differences between support sets, it wouldn't be out of the question for the inherent to do both end reduction and recharge. Case in point, FF really doesn't benefit much from +recharge but does Endredux, but Kin does benefit more from +recharge than endurance reduction.
However I think focusing on the blast sets as the basis of the inherent would be a lot smoother and easier than trying to balance the support sets around one. Such as it's easier to do Critical debuffs on blast sets only than it is to do Critical debuffs on support sets and have it be balanced. Archery/AR could have critical accuracy or damage to supplment their lack of debuffs and after that it would only need to tone down sonic blast some from it's current stats.
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The point I'm making is that it's the buffing Defenders that need a boost. Buffing the class a a whole will buff characters that don't need a buff.
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Okay I'm confused now. Haven't you been wanting a buff for the whole class?
Initially, yes. However, it's been suggested that debuffing Defenders are in fine shape (I'm still not 100% sure I agree, but whatever). I've been shown several videos of Defenders soloing AVs and such. In every case, they're debuffers, such as Rad or Storm.
Debuffs have the effect of increasing the effectiveness of the Defender's damage or decreasing the enemies' damage (thereby making the Defender's damage and defense better).
The buffing sets are largely unable to help themselves, however.
This being the case, I altered my inital premise, and I'm now trying to come up with an idea that remedies this apparent diiscrepancy without disbalancing all else.
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Well, I posted elsewhere about this, but here's my suggestion.
Make Vigilance work such that the endurance cost of using your powers decreases as your reserve of endurance decreases.
That is, the less endurance you have, the less endurance your powers use.
The reason I say this is as follows.
I'm playing my FF/Nrg Defender (I'll post the build in a moment). The goal of this character was to emulate, to some degree, Iron Man. The truth is, he actually does it pretty well. However, I recently Veteraned up sufficiently that I gained access to the Nemesis Staff. I was astounded.
My BEST SHOT using my own powers does around 30 damage to a white conn Freakshow Slammer. Air Superiority does around 24 damage. The Staff does close to 150 damage. Yes, that's right, 5 TIMES the best damage I can do.
I tried an experiment.
I came upon a spawn of three Freakshow, two Slammers and a Gunner. I used only my own powers. I was OUT of endurance after the two Slammers, and was forced to struggle against the Gunner (I was never in danger of defeat, but it was VERY slow and frustrating).
I later came upon an identical spawn, but this time used the Staff as it became ready. I defeated all three foes and was a little above half endurance. Again, I wasn't in any real danger, but instead of having to stop and rest (or stop and wait for rest to recycle since it's necessary after every spawn), I was able to carry on playing.
What's more fun, Resting, or fighting foes?
Defenders need a bonus to their damage, or they need to have endurance equalized somehow. Because Defenders do a fraction of the damage anyone else does while using the same endurance, they end up using much more endurance to defeat the same challenges.
Here's the build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Warpath: Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Energy Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(3), DefBuff-I(3)
Level 1: Power Bolt -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(7)
Level 2: Force Bolt -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9)
Level 4: Energy Torrent -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(9), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(13)
Level 6: Hover -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(13), Flight-I(15)
Level 8: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(19)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(46)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(21)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(23), Flight-I(23)
Level 16: Boxing -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(25), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(27)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(29), Heal-I(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31), EndMod-I(31)
Level 22: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(31), ResDam-I(33), ResDam-I(33)
Level 24: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(34), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 26: Power Burst -- RechRdx-I(A), Acc-I(34), Acc-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(50)
Level 28: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Repulsion Bomb -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(37), Dsrnt-I(37), Dsrnt-I(37), Dsrnt-I(39)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(39), DefBuff-I(39), DefBuff-I(40)
Level 35: Explosive Blast -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42)
Level 38: Nova -- RechRdx-I(A), Acc-I(42), Acc-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(46), ResDam-I(46)
Level 47: Total Focus -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
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If I may offer a little advice, Ultimo...
Get some endurance redux slotted in those attacks!
You could do this with mixed IOs with your current number of slots. Even better you could get some sets in there like Thunderstrike, and six slot the attacks.
Never mind the (awesome) set bonuses you'd get 50% end reduction, recharge and accuracy plus capped damage for six slots.
You maybe dont like IO's, to that I counter, what would Tony Stark do?
But I digress...
Your idea for Determination is pretty good. As others have pointed out it does more or less equate to having reduced end costs across the board or a bigger tank of end, but that doesnt make it a bad idea at all. Its basically Vigilance that works off your own END tank instead of team health, and that sounds good to me.
The problem with coming up with an inherent for Defenders is that the primaries are so different. Any Recharge bonus favours Empaths over Force Fielders. End Discounts really benefit Sonics and Stormies, but a Trick Archer might have their end under control from the moment they start.
Trying to modify buffs and debuffs is risky - some buffs like +Recovery really cease to matter over a point, if your team is swimming in END and extra 10% wont matter. But for +Res and +Def, an extra 10% can halve incoming damage if you're close to the cap.
I'd suggest that the three constants that benefit every Defender are end discount, +damage and +recharge.
(Unless you're a pure force fielder who never attacks)
Make the bonus a mixture of these, nothing huge but maybe capping at +10% end redux, +10% damage and +10% recharge.
Make the trigger applicable to both solo and teams, possibly some aggregate of everyones end and health bars? If the team's average end/health, including your own starts to dip, the bonus kicks in. This covers a team who are struggling due to too much incoming damage or well protected but running out of steam.