/Nin for Scrappers? (I think I have an idea)

So lately I've thought to myself how nice it would be for scrappers to get /nin for a secondary, of course a direct proliferation would end up falling flat on it's face since /nin was explicitely designed to work purely for stalkers, but with a few adjustments and power changes I think it could make a very effective scrapper set.

Overall, four of the nine powers would not work well or at all for scrappers, these powers are:
Hide (No ability to make use of AS's)
Caltrops (We can get that as an APP, albeit much later)
Smoke Flash (Uhhh... Placate's not something for scrappers and their role)
Blinding Powder (This might work but it might not be appropriate)

Now here's my idea for four powers to replace them-

Kannon-Gakure (Name pending): Self +Stealth, +Def (all)
Well, as a ninja themed powerset it should have some kind of stealth power, but in this case it works closer to Cloaking Device from Blaster's Devices set, Cloak of Shadows from Scrapper's Dark Armor, or Energy Cloak from Brute's Energy Aura, so it provides a very modest defense buff and eats endurance since it's not vital.

Quickness: Self +Speed, +FlightSpeed, +Recharge, +Res (Slow)
Straight outta Super Reflexes set, I felt this would make nice counterpoint to the villainous Ninjutsu's location AoE debuff.

Smoke Bomb: Foe -Perception, -ToHit
Basically it's Smoke Grenade from the Widow set, I felt that this also made a great substitute for Smoke Flash by cramming a little something to stack with the defense buffs as well as the stealth, not only that but as a debuff to perception and tohit you would be lending a hand to the squishies on your team (Who would hopefully remain outside of your foe's now limited perception) as well as cause a few enemy attacks to whiff your fellow frontliners making you not just a lone ninja, but bringing you in as a team player!

Kuji-In Jin: Self +Special
Basically, it's Power Boost from the Blaster's Energy Manipulation secondary, the numbers may need to be nerfed in order to keep things balanced, I'm also not sure if this boosts debuffs. (It doesn't according to RedTomax's Guide)

So in summary, here's the outline for how the Scrapper's /nin tree might progress though it might need some further work and refinement.

Ninja Reflexes (1)
Danger Sense (2)
Kannon-Gakure (4)
Quickness (10)
Kuji-In Rin (16)
Kuji-In Sha (20)
Smoke Bomb (28)
Kuji-In Jin (35)
Kuji-In Retsu (38)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

All in all, I think this could work well but may need individual numbers scaled to better balance with the Scrapper AT's different functions. Namely the powerful combination of Dark Melee/Nin stalkers, which is insanely powerful for them, but give the two self heals with soft capped defenses, plus an ability to boost how much they can heal themselves for (Not to mention the possible ability to power boost your debuffs to an insane level) and the whole thing might create something horribly overpowered.

But I think maybe with a little input from you folks and some tweaking, the Devs might look at this and say: "Hey! This could really work! Coming Soon(tm)!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

Though I would like to see a version of Ninjitsu ported to Scrappers, is it really necessary to have that many Kuji-Ins? They are confusing enough as it is without having all of them again in the Scrapper set plus a new one.

That's about all I can give you as I don't know much about the numbers.

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Quickness

[/ QUOTE ]Now you're just trying to make the Stalkers jealous

I'm all for more proliferation.

QR

There's nothing wrong with Hide for Scrappers. It's just a combat invis. Just do the following:

1) Change the name;
2) Give it a .208-.26/second endurance cost;
3) Lower the hidden AoE defense bonus. Make the total defense bonus on the power 3.75%.

If scrappers got /nin, /sr scrappers would get jealous.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Firstly no, Scrappers just got anew set Shields that stalkers didn't. Why should Scrappers get /Nin besides the reason that you want it?

Second Quickness should not be included in this set no matter what. There are 4 sets in the game with Quickness SR,ElA,Soldier Training(before branching),Widow Training(before branching) All of those sets lack a self heal which I believe is the trade off. Nin having a self heal should not have Quickness on top of it.

I have to also agree about Quickness... it'd make Ninjitsu even more like Super Reflexes. I think at least part of he idea was to differentiate the sets, not homogenize them...

Also, not a fan of Stalkers giving up their one set until they get some new ones... so far all but /nin were made for other ATs then ported to them... even /wp was an after thought!

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

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Smoke Flash (Uhhh... Placate's not something for scrappers and their role)
Blinding Powder (This might work but it might not be appropriate)

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I'd be OK with giving up hide, but I absolutely want the Placates. To me, that's what would make the scrapper /nin set so cool - using placate as a mitigation tool. Not sure how it would work out in practice, but I certainly wouldn't want them to dismiss it out of hand. Smoke Flash and Blinding Powder would make a /nin set super fun, and if it didn't work out as a straight placate, they could probably attach a secondary effect to make it more useful for us.

I'd also be OK with just keeping hide in there, as it's just +def and stealth, and seems pretty core to the ninjitsu theme.

All in all, I'd picture scrapper /nin being pretty similar to /regen in that it would be a click-heavy set. It would just focus on mitigation other than +health.

Firstly to DMystic: Because I had thought about a proliferation to scrappers and not a proliferation to stalkers, Truthfully, I'd love to see Stalkers get Ice Armor and Ice Melee, also, weird as it may sound for stalkers, Fiery Melee and Fiery Aura too, but I had thought of this and wrote this up.

On the note of Quickness: Put that way, I understand, but I didn't really have any idea what would make a good replacement for caltrops, so I figured an opposite route would work.
But if that's the case than another idea I had (a power that would be totally skippable) could be Ninja Acrobatics, basically a passive that boosts Speed, Flight Speed, Jumping Speed, and Jump height, but otherwise does nothing else.

Also James, the problem with scrappers having a placate is the resulting rage it would probably invoke on teams, stalkers can be excused for being as squishy as most others, but when a scrapper's supposed to work to keep baddies off the backs of the squishy and provide support for the tank it would probably cause a lot of problems.

Now one of my own concerns is the Power Boost, partly because reading over Red Tomax's guide about what it does, I'm still not clear if another bonus it would give would be to the defense toggles, which would basically throw an alarming power into the set by basically giving them a short burst of mini-K-I Retsu or worse, The boosted defense values of their toggles, plus a boost to Kuji-In Retsu's buffs resulting in PC Reichsman.

So this set still needs a little more work, not as easy of change as I thought it would be at three in the morning, which makes your continued input all the more important.
I'll probably update the OP later with the alternatives to the alternatives of substitute powers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

On the Quickness alternate that sounds fun and reasonable.
Basically +movement. Which I think is minor enough to not be game breaking.

As far as I know Power Boost does boost defense values.
It would also boost Sha and I think it will also boost Blinding Powder.

As for the set itself

Smoke Bomb should probably be the same one from Blaster devices.

the +movement power seems fine to me.(and it would replace caltrops)

No reason to remove Blinding Powder

That should be it.

Although I still don't want to see /Nin proliferated.

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Although I still don't want to see /Nin proliferated.

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Whether it is or isn't has no effect on your life. If you want to limit other people's fun for no reason that's really your own issue.

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Firstly no, Scrappers just got anew set Shields that stalkers didn't. Why should Scrappers get /Nin besides the reason that you want it?

[/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't they get it besides you wanting to be petty and vindictive?

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If scrappers got /nin, /sr scrappers would get jealous.

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The only thing I'm jealous of /Nin are the animations. They are just so much cooler compared to /SR.

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Firstly no, Scrappers just got anew set Shields that stalkers didn't. Why should Scrappers get /Nin besides the reason that you want it?

[/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't they get it besides you wanting to be petty and vindictive?

[/ QUOTE ]Whats life without being petty and vindictive? It's not life I want to live, that's for sure!

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

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[ QUOTE ]
Firstly no, Scrappers just got anew set Shields that stalkers didn't. Why should Scrappers get /Nin besides the reason that you want it?

[/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't they get it besides you wanting to be petty and vindictive?

[/ QUOTE ]Whats life without being petty and vindictive? It's not life I want to live, that's for sure!

[/ QUOTE ] I actually don't have a problem with it, I was just wondering if there were any other reasons.

If I had a problem with it I would have called him a bad word or something else mature.

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[ QUOTE ]
Firstly no, Scrappers just got anew set Shields that stalkers didn't. Why should Scrappers get /Nin besides the reason that you want it?

[/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't they get it besides you wanting to be petty and vindictive?

[/ QUOTE ]Whats life without being petty and vindictive? It's not life I want to live, that's for sure!

[/ QUOTE ] I actually don't have a problem with it, I was just wondering if there were any other reasons.

If I had a problem with it I would have called him a bad word or something else mature.

[/ QUOTE ]My only problem with it is Stalkers need more powersets... so we're holding Ninjitsu hostage until we can get some... and none of that Dual Blades last minute crap!

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.