So many great ideas will never see publication
By
Dr_Demoriel,
Posted on: 2009-06-29 20:35 in Suggestions and Ideas
Many great ideas HAVE seen publication, and many more will, but there are obvious resource limitations (time, money, people). Unless I'm very much mistaken, there aren't any games (or anything else) out there that have everything that everyone wants. And by this metric, if I come up with a great new idea right this second, the fact that it's not in the game constitutes a major failing, which is ridiculous.
Is CoH missing something specific that's ruining your fun, or was this just a casual observation?
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
We "deserve" more?
Really?
Why?
We just GOT a new FREE issue, there will be another later this summer (i16) along with a paid bonus pack and likely late this year or early next year Going Rogue.
... Deserve? Since when?
We've gotten huge amounts of things that we've been asking for, and most recently being added to that list are the POWER CUSTOMIZATION and CHARACTER BUILD CHANGES .... so... yeah, what?
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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OK, so what's the suggestion or idea?
"More stuff?"
Well, congrats, Issue 15 is here, issue 16 is coming, with more issues after that. There's another expansion and another "theme pack" coming, with at least two others (one per origin) also planned.
So the point of this rant was... what, exactly? And why was it here?
Zekiran Immortal
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We "deserve" more?
Really?
Why?
We just GOT a new FREE issue, there will be another later this summer (i16) along with a paid bonus pack and likely late this year or early next year Going Rogue.
... Deserve? Since when?
We've gotten huge amounts of things that we've been asking for, and most recently being added to that list are the POWER CUSTOMIZATION and CHARACTER BUILD CHANGES .... so... yeah, what?
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Memphis Bill
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OK, so what's the suggestion or idea?
"More stuff?"
Well, congrats, Issue 15 is here, issue 16 is coming, with more issues after that. There's another expansion and another "theme pack" coming, with at least two others (one per origin) also planned.
So the point of this rant was... what, exactly? And why was it here?
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These.
Someone obviously doesn't know about all of the improvements the game has seen over the past 5 years that virtually every player takes for granted. The ability to change your costume and have multiple costume slots wasn't there at release. The ability to increase mission difficulty wasn't there at release. The ability to respec wasn't there at release. Badges weren't there at release. There wasn't a search function at release. There wasn't the ability to exemplar at release. There wasn't auto-exemplaring to do task forces at release. Capes weren't here at release. PvP wasn't here at release.
And that's not even everything that we've got now that we didn't when the game was released. I could name at least twice as many if I started picking features that were made available after I4. Seriously, the game has changed so much in the intervening 5 years that I'd have to say that it's 5 years of money well spent. You're just not noticing all of the actual changes that have happened, most likely through ignorance. The game has evolved a lot.
My thanks for your responses, the point to my post was that 5 years of fantastic suggestions by devoted players like YOU, have seen some fruition, but not as much as could or should be expected. Yes, YOU as a player deserve more. It's sad to think that you as a player think that the game is providing you with ample improvements equal to your money. Like i said before, if your happy with the improvements thus far, great for you. You might think that creating new faces and badges takes months of work by a large team of artists and developers, but believe me, it merely takes a few hours (i work in the industry)
I want the City of Franchise to grow and thrive, and provide the maxium content for it's players. I love this game, and have been here since launch, i remember how excited i was being one of the first players to play the game at E3 2003. I want the game to strive for bigger and better improvements. WE really should expect more.
rant over..
And again: did you not bother seeing what we ARE getting next? Things which we HAVE been asking for?
We don't need to expect more - you need to respect the pace of development and workability of things we ask about. They're not waving magic wands at Paragon, they're hard working human beings who have to decide what they CAN implement, IF they can, what it affects when they do, and whether it's worth keeping.
You are lying if you think that it takes "merely a few hours" - sorry, that's absoultely untrue. I don't believe for a second you work in this industry purely BECAUSE you'd say something like that. Frankly - if redesigning something as simple as a badge actually worked that way, don't you think the (now fixed) Mission Teleport button would actually have been fixed within hours of noticing it was messed up?
It's not that simple. plenty of my friends work IN the actual industry and no, nope, sorry. Not going for it for a moment.
As players of a game, we don't "deserve" anything. We pay our money for the game that's playable on the servers we get access to. We do not in any way hold the keys to the kingdom, we do not in any way hold stock in NC's production, and we do not get to make decisions about what is or is not feasable for the game.
We get to PLAY it. Not rule it.
If you want to make your own successful mmo and allow the players to dictate what gets made in it, by all means, do so.
You'll remember the "it's not that easy" comments pretty quickly then, I think.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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should be expected
[/ QUOTE ]Really? Based on what?
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It's sad to think that you as a player think that the game is providing you with ample improvements equal to your money.
[/ QUOTE ]And what qualifies you to determine that? Because you 'work in the industry'? Well big whoop de [censored] doo, I don't care where you work. If I'm happy with the progress, you can't come in here and say that i'm wrong, and that I'm sad for being fooled.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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And again: did you not bother seeing what we ARE getting next? Things which we HAVE been asking for?
We don't need to expect more - you need to respect the pace of development and workability of things we ask about. They're not waving magic wands at Paragon, they're hard working human beings who have to decide what they CAN implement, IF they can, what it affects when they do, and whether it's worth keeping.
You are lying if you think that it takes "merely a few hours" - sorry, that's absoultely untrue. I don't believe for a second you work in this industry purely BECAUSE you'd say something like that. Frankly - if redesigning something as simple as a badge actually worked that way, don't you think the (now fixed) Mission Teleport button would actually have been fixed within hours of noticing it was messed up?
It's not that simple. plenty of my friends work IN the actual industry and no, nope, sorry. Not going for it for a moment.
As players of a game, we don't "deserve" anything. We pay our money for the game that's playable on the servers we get access to. We do not in any way hold the keys to the kingdom, we do not in any way hold stock in NC's production, and we do not get to make decisions about what is or is not feasable for the game.
We get to PLAY it. Not rule it.
If you want to make your own successful mmo and allow the players to dictate what gets made in it, by all means, do so.
You'll remember the "it's not that easy" comments pretty quickly then, I think.
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You can believe what you want about the game. If you think it takes months and months to create simple things like new faces and badges? Thats great for you. Ask some of your friends who actually work in the game industry. If you think that you as a player are not in any position to expect anything anything from a game you pay a monthly fee to? well thats great for you as well. Seems like you are prefectly happy with the game, i'm happy for you. I love the improvements they have added over the past 5 years, i know, they can do more.
And my POINT, along with the others in the thread if you'd bother to turn your mind on while looking at the pretty letters, is that there IS more coming.
It does not happen all at once. You should know this, if you do work in the industry. Everything that's come out has done so with a minimum of bugs - and those which have been too buggy to put in, have *not been released*.
Quality over quantity, I think is the issue you don't seem to be grasping.
What in the world makes you think they're "not" going to be producing anything new that we've asked about? I am sorry but power customization and colorization are things which are ground breaking for this game engine and YOU KNOW IT. Or maybe you don't, since it seems you haven't been paying attention to the game's progress since oh, 3 weeks ago...
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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i know, they can do more.
[/ QUOTE ]And they are? You know, Power Customization, Redemption and Fallen From Grace, Praetorian zones, mission architect?
You seemed to have forgotten that we're only now beginning to see the results of NCSoft taking CoH out of maintenance mode that it was in under Cryptic's control.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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You might think that creating new faces and badges takes months of work by a large team of artists and developers, but believe me, it merely takes a few hours (i work in the industry)
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This isn't Blizzard. Until a few months ago, any and all new costume pieces were not the work of a "large team of artists." They were the work of one man, Sexy Jay, who had to work in conjunction with Back Alley Brawler to make sure that everything animated correctly. Recently, the character art (PC and NPC models) team has tripled in size (for those not mathematically inclined, this means that CoH now has a huge character art team that consists of three people).
As far as I know, Castle's team of powers folks is also three large, including Castle, and one of them also works on Bases, while the other also works on Badges.
Your "large team of artists and developers" that can get anything done (including quality checking and bug fixing) in a matter of hours exists only in your fantasies.
Speaking of large teams of artists and developers, how quickly does WoW get new faces and costumes and badges into their game, from conception to publication. I'm willing to bet it is quite a bit more than a few hours even for a Development team of that size.
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I want the City of Franchise to grow and thrive, and provide the maxium content for it's players. I love this game, and have been here since launch, i remember how excited i was being one of the first players to play the game at E3 2003. I want the game to strive for bigger and better improvements. WE really should expect more.
rant over..
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Fantastic that your rant is over. Now, maybe, just maybe, you could let us in on whatever you think it is that the game should be providing you that you aren't getting? So far, it has been a lot of wind about how we are being shortchanged and how we should expect, nay, demand(!) more, but not a single specific.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
qr
i would like to say thank you to the dev team. this is the only game that i have played that has kept me interested for more than a couple of months.
as far as i am concerned this game has continuously given me more and more. i have yet to reach the moment when i have said "is that it?"
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You might think that creating new faces and badges takes months of work by a large team of artists and developers, but believe me, it merely takes a few hours (i work in the industry)
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This isn't Blizzard. Until a few months ago, any and all new costume pieces were not the work of a "large team of artists." They were the work of one man, Sexy Jay, who had to work in conjunction with Back Alley Brawler to make sure that everything animated correctly. Recently, the character art (PC and NPC models) team has tripled in size (for those not mathematically inclined, this means that CoH now has a huge character art team that consists of three people).
As far as I know, Castle's team of powers folks is also three large, including Castle, and one of them also works on Bases, while the other also works on Badges.
Your "large team of artists and developers" that can get anything done (including quality checking and bug fixing) in a matter of hours exists only in your fantasies.
Speaking of large teams of artists and developers, how quickly does WoW get new faces and costumes and badges into their game, from conception to publication. I'm willing to bet it is quite a bit more than a few hours even for a Development team of that size.
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I want the City of Franchise to grow and thrive, and provide the maxium content for it's players. I love this game, and have been here since launch, i remember how excited i was being one of the first players to play the game at E3 2003. I want the game to strive for bigger and better improvements. WE really should expect more.
rant over..
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Fantastic that your rant is over. Now, maybe, just maybe, you could let us in on whatever you think it is that the game should be providing you that you aren't getting? So far, it has been a lot of wind about how we are being shortchanged and how we should expect, nay, demand(!) more, but not a single specific.
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Thanks for miss quoting me to fit your agenda. I never said that the game has a huge team of artists and developers. Here's the actual quote:
You might think that creating new faces and badges takes months of work by a large team of artists and developers, but believe me, it merely takes a few hours.
My point was that creating new faces, badges DOESN"T need a huge team of artists. I know, because, like i said it's what i do.
Here's another point you missed in your volatile defense of the game at all cost, simple improvements or ideas, from my initial post you overlooked.
"Like adding more SG base items, more tailoring items and new faces, More world events, revamping "dead" zones into something new like what they did in Faultline, even something as simple as changing the movie theatre marquis from the old "5th column and Council"
Next time,take the time required to read a little more.I listed very simple and easy ideas from these forum over the years.
if your perfectly happy with the game, and feel that there should be NO room for anyone to feel disappointment at the level of game content, then we are simply not on the same plain, but thats OK. Like i have said, i love this game, and i feel that even keeping in mind what is to come, i think the game needs to strive for more content. Simple things as i have listed, and better ones listed here on this forum over 5 years of suggestions, too many to list here.
See you at the next pocket-D dance party! I bet i know what song will be playing....
Your suggestion really amounts to nothing more than a rant, at both the players (sad that we're not dissatisfied) as well as the devs (not implementing every single idea).
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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But *all of the things you've listed are coming at some point in the future*.
You implied that there IS a "large" art team, by your use of those very words. Maybe with a "large" art team something as "simple" as changing graphics or adding them to a game IS a few hour task.
There are three people.
Do YOU consider that to be a "large" art team? Because I don't.
By your post history, you seem to have skipped large portions of the game's existence. I think you've really missed the parts where *we got stuff you asked for* and *the dev team was increased from a skeleton crew to a workable business*. We are JUST NOW benefitting from that bigger crew.
So stop acting like you think you know how THIS company works - whatever business you are in (gamestop doesn't count as "in the industry" remember) it's not a gig where you can simply drop anything into the game and not have it cause issues. you pretty clearly DON'T understand why, even if a piece of art IS made in a couple hours, it cannot be put into a game "just like that". It's pretty much been stated clearly in this game and many others, that the process is NOT just "wave a wand". Obviously, you don't know that.
So once more: what are things that we haven't ALREADY GOT GOING in the game, that you 'want', new and fresh? They ARE working on redesigning zones. That was War Witch's main job for ages. Now that she's got other people working with her, there will be such things.
There will also be completely new zones and such, coming in the Going Rogue expansion. What part of that isn't "progress in the game" that we should - actually - expect?
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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"Like adding more SG base items, more tailoring items and new faces, More world events, revamping "dead" zones into something new like what they did in Faultline, even something as simple as changing the movie theatre marquis from the old "5th column and Council"
Next time,take the time required to read a little more.I listed very simple and easy ideas from these forum over the years.
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The only simple or easy thing about the majority of those ideas is how simple and easy it is to demand them.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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"Like adding more SG base items, more tailoring items and new faces, More world events, revamping "dead" zones into something new like what they did in Faultline, even something as simple as changing the movie theatre marquis from the old "5th column and Council"
Next time,take the time required to read a little more.I listed very simple and easy ideas from these forum over the years.
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What you don't seem to understand is the reason why we are confused by your rant.
All of these things are being added to the game already. The Devs are already submitting to your requests.
The way bases were built was recently revamped, enabling constructions that were completely impossible before. Once base raiding is fixed, I would fully expect that new base items will be added, as more people will be able to appreciate them.
New costume pieces are added in every single issue, in addition to the Booster Packs and Special Edition items. We just got 20 new faces.
Last Halloween they gave us the Zombie Apocalypses. Who knows what other events they might have cooking?
After revamping Faultline, they revamped the Hollows. Which Zone is next? Who knows? You are only assuming that they are done with Zone revamps. In fact, if you are paying attention, it looks like all of the Zones have received a revamp in the way they interact with our characters. The sounds of our footfalls are now dependant on the type of surface that we are running across. Another unannounced change from issue 15 is that the idling behavior of many mobs have changed.
What aren't you getting? How are we being shortchanegd? The Devs are doing every single thing you have just asked for. I simply don't see the point of your rant except to say that the Devs aren't doing it fast enough to suit your expert opinion as someone "who works in the industry."
Which means by the way, if you have intimate knowledge of how to program MMOs, that you work for a competing MMO. Not that I have a problem with this, nor do I expect you to reveal which one, except to confirm that my assumption is correct. If my assumption is incorrect, and you are not an MMO designer, then your own assumption that you know how to do the Devs' jobs is also incorrect. You may work in computer graphics design, but are you working with the same software as our Devs? You say that you can design 20 faces in a couple of hours, does that include attaching them to the existing character models and making sure they work with all of the possible details and textures?
It sounds like you are under the impression that all of our Devs work in a vacuum, responsible for only their own jobs with no coordination with any other department, and that as soon as they are done with each little task, they should upload it to the servers so that it can be patched into the game.
I want all the the things that you have mentioned and more. The difference is that I have faith that they will come, in their own time, when the Devs are done with them and they are done right (they look good, work as intended, and don't have any bugs that break other parts of the game). I do not feel shortchanged, and I don't imagine that I know more about how to do their jobs than they do.
My problem is not "blind defense of the game at all costs." Maybe my problem is humility. I take the Devs at their word about what is involved in their jobs, and trust that they know what they are doing. Your problem is arrogance. You do something involved in computer graphics or game design, and assume you intimately know the tools the Devs are using and that you can use them better.
I'd rather have my "problem" than yours.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
There are many ideas for the game's improvement. However, how "great" they are can be entirely subjective. Even ideas that devs may think are great may never come to be due to restrictions in development and manpower. Look at I16. Power customization is probably, but it look a very long time, no thanks to CoV development using up manpower (nothing against CoV obviously), and then staff cutbacks directly thereafter.
Personally, I've had ideas that were implemented. Just because you haven't doesn't make it untrue. That's the problem with inductive reasoning - one example to the contrary can ruin the hypothesis.
Don't go crying "sour grapes" merely because none of your suggestions supposedly have never been acted upon.
Simply because i have not posted here on a weekly or daily basis, doesn't mean, i have not been playing the game. I have been playing the game almost daily for 5 years. I think you are simply trying to figure out my adjenda, and it really pisses you off that i have been playing this game, and on these forums longer than most of you, and your knee-jerk response is to try and discount any validity of my criticism. My criticism of the game, and improved game suggestions have been made simple, and clear. I'm not looking to earn any "Blind Devotion" badge.
Improvements to the game need to keep pace with player expectations. "City Of" has done some great work with some aspects of the game (crafting, AE, Game stability, AT diversity, etc.), and fallen short on others (level cap,SG base content, Cathedral of pain, debt in PVP zones to name a few)
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and fallen short on others (level cap,SG base content, Cathedral of pain, debt in PVP zones to name a few)
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Explain how the level cap is an area where we've fall short cause I'd just love to see the thought process behind that comment.
But your criticism of the "lack" in the game is completely unfounded, so the only thing I can see by your utter inability to understand what we actually HAVE in the game is that you have not played it, OR come to the forums.
Your blog link has also not been updated for 3 years.
Get over the Cathedral of Pain. It ain't gonna happen. It was broken, so badly that it couldn't be fixed. Same thing with the City Vault. It was a great idea, that simply *could not be made well enough to be used*.
(level cap)
Why do you want a higher level cap? That's completely beaten into the ground dead - and you'd know that if you'd been in the forums and "in" the industry in general. SG base content is IN THE GAME. Debt in PVP? It's an issue that has been changed even as recently as 2 months ago. Come on, guy.
You need to pay more attention to the actual progress of the game, if you're going to list demands which have either been already made - and made well - in the game, or have been projected to be put in shortly, or most importanly, been *abandoned as not feasable*.
Just because you think them up, doesn't make them good for the game.
You have definitely not been here for 5 years, dude. I find it extremely hard to believe that someone who HAS been playing, has not SEEN THE THINGS YOU ASK FOR in the game - and then questions why we as players aren't demanding more. They're IN the game. ALREADY. Trying to figure your agenda?
My discounting of your demands is based on firm reality - I know from not just having plenty of friends (some working at Blizzard, some here in this game) in the actual industry, and by having paid attention when the developers of THIS GAME say "this is how it's done, we do it like that" - and I know better than you obviously, that when YOU say "it's easy" you're flat out wrong.
I already have that "blind devotion" badge - but it also came with the "free to critique the things that aren't done well" badge, as well as the "grounded in reality" badge for asking for things which *can be done in this game's engine*.
Your demonstrative lack of understanding of how this game is made shows me you're not just making stuff up, but you're actively trying to make it look like you're more "important" than you are.
Your criticism would come far better recieved if you actually appeared to have played the same game as the rest of us for these 5 years. Because the rest of us seem to actually KNOW what we've got, what we've asked for, what we're getting in the future, and why we haven't gotten the things we don't have.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Improvements to the game need to keep pace with player expectations.
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Ironically, my current detraction from the game is my expectation of players 
Over the past 5 years, i have read some really great ideas and suggestions to improve the game, simple things, like adding more SG base items,more tailoring items and new faces, More world events, revamping "dead" zones into something new like what they did in Faultline,even something as simple as changing the movie theatre marquis from the old "5th column and Council" one to something new. I enjoy the AE missions,the crafting and other game improvements, but i know, based on what other games are out there after 5 years, provide to their players, that these changes are very small in comparison, and we as players deserve more. If your happy with the game, and can list all the wonderful changes and improvements over the years, thats great for you. I love this game, and i know there are players like me who just want more from the game, and aren't satisfied with what is, and what should be, for the amount of money 5 years development can buy you.