How to Support and Promote Farming
By
BBQ_Pork,
Posted on: 2009-06-27 24:50 in Suggestions and Ideas
The devs view farming as a problem. To them, it harms the game and the community, period.
This is therefore solving the wrong problem.
BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
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The devs view farming as a problem. To them, it harms the game and the community, period.
This is therefore solving the wrong problem.
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This.
Though it should be noted that the Devs are less against 'Farming' and more against Exploitation of any sort.
-Rachel-
Like exploiting the SK system to get free XP for standing in a doorway while the rest of team (minus the SK and his babysitter) kills full-team-sized spawns +8 to you?
If I remember correctly it -used- to be that you could stand at the door even -further- from the highest level member of the team... Was it -9 to the leader which would be spawns of +12 to you, on an 8 man team of 7 people standing at the door whilst a Fire/Fire tanker slaughtered everything in the mission alone and unaided, without even using Inspirations.
Perhaps my memory is flawed..?
-Rachel-
...there goes ...a.....nother one.......
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Like exploiting the SK system to get free XP for standing in a doorway while the rest of team (minus the SK and his babysitter) kills full-team-sized spawns +8 to you?
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It is a long known exploit. I agree something needs to be done about that kind of thing as well. Especially, when other players are pulled in as filler and then kicked from the team as soon as an outdoor map is populated.
I believe bridges were 42, rather than 46.
The leader would be either a Fire/Other Tank (often Fire/Ice for Burn+Ice Slick) or a Fire/Kin Controller.
A Blaster(s) with Trip Mines, paired with a flying Tank could do quite well with Chimera's "Graveyard of a Thousand Ninjas".
Some of these exploits have been plugged a bit, with agro caps, limits on XP range while outdoors and a tightening of the team level range for example.
Farming is becoming harder each year due to global warming, so I have no idea how this solves that problem.
I think that's what it was, BBQ.
So a level 41 standing in the same mish as a level 50 who was fighting level 53s. The level 41 would gain XP as if fighting enemies that were +12 from their level.
If it's been knocked down to +8 that's helpful. =-3
Purple Patch, Warwolves getting ranged attacks, aggro-caps keeping people from herding Brickstown into a Dumpster, etc. The changes haven't ever been instantaneous. Often they're far slower than many would like. But they do happen.
-Rachel-
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...there goes ...a.....nother one.......
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do you feel like a bad [censored] because you let everyone know who you've put on ignore? those kinds of things are considered to be a personal attack no matter how slight it is. and it is your kind of attitude that is really getting old. if you don't like a thread don't speak in it. plain and simple.
in fact, pretty soon you will end up with noone to talk to because you keep putting everyone on ignore. i really don't know why i even wrote this because you won't see it but other's will and get a good laugh out of it i'm sure. 
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...there goes ...a.....nother one.......
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do you feel like a bad [censored] because you let everyone know who you've put on ignore?
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I sorta read his comment as "there goes another thread into Derail-ville."
And to all the readers of this thread, I hereby apologize for derailment.
the problem with cutting the infl/inf in half is you would be pushing everyone to the RMT'ers to get the infl/inf they need. so that really isn't a good idea. and you're right. you won't see this ever.
while a nice idea for those that play that way, the dev's think that playing slow is much more fun and you won't get burnt out while if you farm you will get burnt out. i hate to disagree with them but if i get sick of farming i move to something else in the game, not to another game.
it's not that the thread was derailed. what we have here is another anti-farmer vs farmer thread because some people choose to play one way while others choose to hate the people that choose to play that way. there is no need for that. at all.
most of the people that i know that farm keep the anchor seeking to sg or coalition chat or even global friends. others do ask in broadcast and tells bugt those are the less educated. but all this aside, i really am neither for or against farming. i do it once in a while when i want a challenge of running a map set for 6-8 people by myself. usually once or twice because i'm thinking of what i want to do next. in fact that is how i come up with some of the ideas for my next toon.
I think the idea behind the suggestion is not bad. In fact, it is used in the real world. There are things in this world, which I don't want to mention here, that can't be stopped no matter what. So those things are legalized such that they can be carried out in a controlled fashion.
I think the problem with the suggestion is that if farming is approved with official farmland, the farming is not really controlled or improved in any way, and farming can still goes on outside the official area. I don't see the real benefits by building an official Disney farm, apart from it being a convenient place for players.
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I think that's what it was, BBQ.
So a level 41 standing in the same mish as a level 50 who was fighting level 53s. The level 41 would gain XP as if fighting enemies that were +12 from their level.
If it's been knocked down to +8 that's helpful. =-3
Purple Patch, Warwolves getting ranged attacks, aggro-caps keeping people from herding Brickstown into a Dumpster, etc. The changes haven't ever been instantaneous. Often they're far slower than many would like. But they do happen.
-Rachel-
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Not quite .... If you have a level 41 on the team, and a level 50 powerleveling, a level 43 person gains experience, and a level 44 can bridge.
This still works, albeit you now need a level 1 also. So a level 43 will gain experience from level 52's which is a level spread of 9. This is a long standing issue that has been around for quite awhile, has been bugged, and has never been fixed. It's probably not high on priority.
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That should get some attention :P
It occurred to me when trying to form a non-farm AE mission team the other night that really the problem with the farming isn't actually the farming itself.
We've always had it, and it will always be part of anything with a levelling system. You'll never stop it programatically, and there's better things for the CoH GM's to be doing.
So rather than trying to outlaw it, bring farming into the game so you have some control.
Huh?
Yeah, you read that right. With the sidekick/exempler system and auto-levelling for missions level matters rather less than most POW's (MMOG's) anyway. It greatly reduces the workload of the devs desperately trying to figure out ways of blocking power-levelling without hurting standard gamers (as if there's a distinct line between the two anyway), and clears the farming spam out of the AE building so you can actually find a decent story mission.
[u]The Proposal[u] is this:
1) Create a new co-op hazard area, Rikti or Freaks, whichever.
2) Have several teleporters/gates/entrances from which enemy spawns constantly appear.
3) Spawn size are always set for eight players, at level 53.
4) XP is standard, influence is half*.
5) Everyone in the zone is auto-sidekicked to 50 if lower.
Hop into the zone, grab a team, kill the same enemies constantly for 50 levels or your eyes bleed, whichever comes first.
If you want to do something fun, there's the rest of the game, right where you left it.
Do I actually expect to see this? Unfortunately, no, since the devs have demonstrated their hatred of anything with even a whiff of farming, but I can hope, and I figured it might make an "interesting" discussion 
*fast levelling is one thing, completely destroying the already precarious market is another.
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Why would someone who wants to farm for drops, cash, xp, et al ... bother with the zone when there are ingame mechanics vastly superior already in place?
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...there goes ...a.....nother one.......
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do you feel like a bad [censored] because you let everyone know who you've put on ignore?
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I sorta read his comment as "there goes another thread into Derail-ville."
And to all the readers of this thread, I hereby apologize for derailment.
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This is yet other thread that wants to take up the Flag of "farming is a legitimate play-style".
The players that follow this banner fail to understand that what they want to be "legitimate" isn't.
The DEVs don't want farmers in the game. The DEVs feel that farming is reduces the longevity of the game. The DEVs made it clear that they didn't want anyone using the AE as a farming tool and that players would be punished for doing so. The DEVs dropped the 10-ton hammer on some of those farming the AE.
Farmers cried that they were being treated unfairly. Farmers cried that they should be able to do what they want to do if they pay to play the game. Farmers still want players to think that farming is the way to play the game. Farmers try to make it appear that farming is the only way to get the things that you need in-game that you need to be able to play the game. Farmers distract players from actually playing the game.
The act of farming cause a imbalance in the game that causes others to want to farm in order to be as uber (, l337, or whatever lingo you want to use) as the other people exploiting the system. Farming feeds on itself. It is a blight of greed that self perpetuates.
Farmers lead others into the "easy way" of farming that takes them away from actually playing the game.
There is no place for farmers in the City of Heroes (either side).
It is against the EULA to promote or support an exploit.
Why would the DEVs have anything to do with "supporting and promoting farming"?
Burn down the farms and drive the farmers from the City.
And, yeah, I'm proud that I can stand up for what I believe in and take steps of my own to keep farmers out of my gaming experience involved with CoX. It has made me a target for harassment and still I stand my ground for what I believe in.
Others can help in the fight against farmers too by reporting farms in the AE, 1 staring farmers using Add Notes, turn on the option so that you can see stars over players, don't game with farmers, and put farmers on ignore in the forums and in the game.
Farmers have no place in the lower level zones - at all - ever. This worse and most recent act of blatant exploiting and bemoaning of rights to abuse the game have brought me to this final and intolerant stand against all farmers.
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The DEVs don't want farmers in the game. The DEVs feel that farming is reduces the longevity of the game. The DEVs made it clear that they didn't want anyone using the AE as a farming tool and that players would be punished for doing so. The DEVs dropped the 10-ton hammer on some of those farming the AE.
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Yes, they dropped the hammer (publicly) on some of those farming the AE. Once. And they closed one exploit hole involving the skewed risk/reward of LT's of one faction.
Meow.
Have you had a puppy? Rubbing it's nose in it's mess just once doesn't teach it to quit peeing on the floor. And every parenting book out there states that consistancy (between the parents and between multiple instances of bad behaviors) is the key to teaching your kids better behaviors.
There are quite a few farming missions in the AE at this moment. I don't think that it would be an exxageration to guess a few hundred. Reporting them seems to do little good as I've reported a couple of really blatant ones and seen them still posted quite some time later.
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It is against the EULA to promote or support an exploit.
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True.
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This is yet other thread that wants to take up the Flag of "farming is a legitimate play-style". The players that follow this banner fail to understand that what they want to be "legitimate" isn't.
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Umm, so I've been playing illegitimate for five years now - think that's gonna change anytime soon?
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The DEVs don't want farmers in the game. The DEVs feel that farming is reduces the longevity of the game. The DEVs made it clear that they didn't want anyone using the AE as a farming tool and that players would be punished for doing so. The DEVs dropped the 10-ton hammer on some of those farming the AE.
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Change the word "farm-" to "exploit-" and I'm with you. If the Devs hated farmers as much as you think, your last line would have been:
"The DEVs dropped the 10-ton hammer on everyone who farmed the AE."
Oh, and I wouldn't have been able to post this. 
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Farmers cried that they were being treated unfairly.
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Stupid farmers did.
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Farmers cried that they should be able to do what they want to do if they pay to play the game.
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Stupid farmers did.
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Farmers still want players to think that farming is the way to play the game.
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It's A way yes, but there are many ways to do so.
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Farmers distract players from actually playing the game.
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Stupid farmers do this, on this point we are in agreement.
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The act of farming cause a imbalance in the game that causes others to want to farm in order to be as uber (, l337, or whatever lingo you want to use) as the other people exploiting the system.
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If my playstyle makes you want more, then I say it's a good thing - but then I'm never one to settle for less. YMMV.
Oh, and there you go getting farming and exploiting mixed up again silly. 
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Farmers lead others into the "easy way" of farming that takes them away from actually playing the game.
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Bad farmers do this, yes. But it is ultimately the choice of those being led astray to allow themselves to do so.
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There is no place for farmers in the City of Heroes (either side).
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You obviously don't play on my server.
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It is against the EULA to promote or support an exploit.
Why would the DEVs have anything to do with "supporting and promoting farming"?
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What does one have to do with the other?
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Burn down the farms and drive the farmers from the City.
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Yaay for tolerance!!
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And, yeah, I'm proud that I can stand up for what I believe in and take steps of my own to keep farmers out of my gaming experience involved with CoX. It has made me a target for harassment and still I stand my ground for what I believe in.
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Others can help in the fight against farmers too by reporting farms in the AE, 1 staring farmers using Add Notes, turn on the option so that you can see stars over players, don't game with farmers, and put farmers on ignore in the forums and in the game.
Farmers have no place in the lower level zones - at all - ever. This worse and most recent act of blatant exploiting and bemoaning of rights to abuse the game have brought me to this final and intolerant stand against all farmers.
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You know this is a game and not the Crusades right?
It always amazes me to see people who still think like you complaining on the forums. I've teamed with bad RP'rs, bad players, and just bad people before. It's a game, as long as they are having fun I say live and let live - but we can't all be open and accomodating can we?
After all, if we all just played how we wanted to there would be no reason to spit venom at others online and justify our frustrations.
That's quite a refutation, but it's probably wasted. Alt tends to ignore anyone who doesn't fervently agree with his bat-[censored] insane views on farming.
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
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Why would someone who wants to farm for drops, cash, xp, et al ... bother with the zone when there are ingame mechanics vastly superior already in place?
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Because they aren't vastly superior - the point of the zone would be to be the quickest way to get xp, bar none. The caveat: it's also the most boring way imaginable.
As I said in the original post - if you want to have fun and enjoy the game, nothing's being taken away from you apart from those currently abusing your normal missions. If you've got getting a level 50 character confused with being an awesome person then there's this hazard zone.
I hope from my choice of words show I'm not on the farmer's side - levelling a toon to the top by mindless repetition of the same things is exactly why I don't play any other POW, but apparently some think it's a really good thing. And I'm reliably informed they're people too, and have rights and stuff :P. Fair enough, I don't mind if they go ruin the game for themselves, but I do object to them ruining the game for me.
I'm trying to be realistic, however. Real life tells us that many things people want to do cannot be prevented by laws and rules. They'll find loopholes and ways to stay hidden. The next best thing, then, is to bring it under your control, so that it doesn't interfere with anything else. That's the goal here - get farmers centralised somewhere /other/ than where the rest of us are.
We will never prevent people from farming. We can, however, take steps to prevent their actions from impacting negatively on the rest of the game.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
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Why would someone who wants to farm for drops, cash, xp, et al ... bother with the zone when there are ingame mechanics vastly superior already in place?
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Because they aren't vastly superior - the point of the zone would be to be the quickest way to get xp, bar none. The caveat: it's also the most boring way imaginable.
As I said in the original post - if you want to have fun and enjoy the game, nothing's being taken away from you apart from those currently abusing your normal missions. If you've got getting a level 50 character confused with being an awesome person then there's this hazard zone.
I hope from my choice of words show I'm not on the farmer's side - levelling a toon to the top by mindless repetition of the same things is exactly why I don't play any other POW, but apparently some think it's a really good thing. And I'm reliably informed they're people too, and have rights and stuff :P. Fair enough, I don't mind if they go ruin the game for themselves, but I do object to them ruining the game for me.
I'm trying to be realistic, however. Real life tells us that many things people want to do cannot be prevented by laws and rules. They'll find loopholes and ways to stay hidden. The next best thing, then, is to bring it under your control, so that it doesn't interfere with anything else. That's the goal here - get farmers centralised somewhere /other/ than where the rest of us are.
We will never prevent people from farming. We can, however, take steps to prevent their actions from impacting negatively on the rest of the game.
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You don't understand farming, which is why I asked the question. The best possible xp/cash isn't from being SK'd to a 50 or being auto-Sk'd to 49/50 - you get it by being at the lowest allowable level possible to still attain the xp or cash.
My point is that being adjusted that high will not get farmers to leave other zones as it is inherently inefficient as you suggested in your first post. If you want the farmers to go elsewhere the Devs need to give an incentive to do so - otherwise why bother moving even one zone from where they play now?
But let's be clear, by incentive I do not mean anything extra to what's in-game already.
My suggestion would be to change the proposal slightly so you can have half a shot at success:
Leave everything the way it is but change a single zone to accomodate a farmer-friendly AE building and portal to PI. By farmer-friendly I mean a WW, a trainer, and a PI/RWZ portal facility VERY close to the AE building. Get it out of GC, AP, etc ... but give people a reason to uproot and move.
I know it doesn't sound like much, but those reasons above are the very reason people are in AP and Cap. So, to remove the annoyance you need to remove the reason they're there in the first place.
But to make a zone-wide farm paradise is nonsense, no offense - it just isn't workable because it can be done, as I said, vastly better using existing mechanics ingame.
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That's quite a refutation, but it's probably wasted. Alt tends to ignore anyone who doesn't fervently agree with his bat-[censored] insane views on farming.
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to bad the forum names cant be longer cause i'd bet alt's new name would be: alt-i live in my parents basement and have no friends causei live on my computer and hate everyone who doesn't play the way i do and i have no in game friends cause i ignore everyone who says the word farm, oh and did i mention i live in my parents basement- a-holic.
/endthreadjack
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That's the goal here - get farmers centralised somewhere /other/ than where the rest of us are.
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That is an unattainable goal and a setup for pure failure.
People really need to just play the game their way and stop worrying about things they don't have nor will they ever have control over.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
That should get some attention :P
It occurred to me when trying to form a non-farm AE mission team the other night that really the problem with the farming isn't actually the farming itself.
We've always had it, and it will always be part of anything with a levelling system. You'll never stop it programatically, and there's better things for the CoH GM's to be doing.
So rather than trying to outlaw it, bring farming into the game so you have some control.
Huh?
Yeah, you read that right. With the sidekick/exempler system and auto-levelling for missions level matters rather less than most POW's (MMOG's) anyway. It greatly reduces the workload of the devs desperately trying to figure out ways of blocking power-levelling without hurting standard gamers (as if there's a distinct line between the two anyway), and clears the farming spam out of the AE building so you can actually find a decent story mission.
[u]The Proposal[u] is this:
1) Create a new co-op hazard area, Rikti or Freaks, whichever.
2) Have several teleporters/gates/entrances from which enemy spawns constantly appear.
3) Spawn size are always set for eight players, at level 53.
4) XP is standard, influence is half*.
5) Everyone in the zone is auto-sidekicked to 50 if lower.
Hop into the zone, grab a team, kill the same enemies constantly for 50 levels or your eyes bleed, whichever comes first.
If you want to do something fun, there's the rest of the game, right where you left it.
Do I actually expect to see this? Unfortunately, no, since the devs have demonstrated their hatred of anything with even a whiff of farming, but I can hope, and I figured it might make an "interesting" discussion
*fast levelling is one thing, completely destroying the already precarious market is another.
[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]