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*EDIT* You may want to read past the first sentence of a post btw, since I was stating you brought up a point I hadn't considered trying, and would try it myself where I thought it applicable. Must have been the cat pee in my coffee that made me not explain myself ingratiatingly enough for you 
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Still not yet ingratiating enough! This is why I do 5-hour energy's instead of coffee. It leaves me jazzed and un-bitter, plus I don't worry about adding the wrong condiment.
... Lordie, the servers had better come up soon, I'm writing documentation on 2 months worth of work and it's boring the crap out of me. "Exception #1042 = Your Mom" is probably not what I should leave in the final version.
I'm thinking you should be staying away from caffeine altogether
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This idea seems to be a good way for me to get past the annoying tanking levels...
I may use this up until 22 and then go on to story arcs, so I can feel like a tanker.
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That's what I usually end up doing ... farming until my guy is into SOs and then taking him for a spin in the "real world" to see how the build holds up.
Then I PL him some more, rinse and repeat. I wouldn't trust my build advice based on an MA toon with regards to how it performs while levelling, since I'm not getting the full flavor of past levelling this way. My period stop and checks are just to see how they hold up at given points (usually every 5 levels or so).
I will say that Tanker's often get the wrong ideas when levelling this way, as I've seen a bunch of scranker builds. I wouldn't mind so much except when they inevitably try to step in and main tank (which is why I suggest the boss farms for trying out the toughness of your Tanker).
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Lordie, less cat pee in coffee.
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I'm trying to figure out the obsession with cat urine in coffee...
This is like the 3rd post I have seen (today) saying this.
Did someone let out the over caffeinated guardian cat girls out again????
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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About what wasn't supposed to be discussed:
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You are quite right.
The thread is primarily about exploiting the game.
The thread shouldn't exist.
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[As for the rest of your "What isn't supposed to be discussed" portion of your post, you lost me there. Care to clarify?
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I was referring to your statement "not meant to be a discussion on the merits/ills of farms and farming". I responded to Alt_oholic's sig anyway
Yeah, not seeing the snark either, Kruunch.
I'm a newer and more casual player. Until this weekend I'd been playing entirely outside of the AE. TBH the leveling pace has been quite snappy. Playing at most a few hours a night, with plenty of nights off, I'm at 41 after about 4 weeks. There aren't many MMO's where I could get 80% of the way to capped with that little play time.
I did do a few hours of AE last night just to see what the fuss was all about. Yeah, it's a bit extreme. A few hours later I'd gained 3 1/2 levels and with some badge turn-ins and auctions I earned something like 3-4x the influence I'd earned in my entire time up to level 37.
I can definitely see where that's a bit extreme and I don't think it takes being snarky to point that out. I'm guessing that 10 days is even pretty slow and that if someone wanted to push it they could hit cap in a few days of full time AE. The easy influence and all the recipes flowing in HAVE to have a dramatic effect on the economy.
I think it's only fair that you do whatever is the most fun for you in the game, whether it's balanced or not. However I also think that it's pretty easy to see that AE's are pretty out-of-whack with the intended balance of the game AND the non-AE leveling rate is already pretty damn fast compared to the other games out there. Crying out that you're going to quit if they tweak it down a bit, well, let me just say I've been playing MMO's for about 15 years now and you're not exactly the first person to raise a such a hew and cry about balance tweaks, justified or not.
Anyway, just my (probably wasted) thoughts as a casual outsider who doesn't really have a lot invested in the game.
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Yeah, not seeing the snark either, Kruunch.
I'm a newer and more casual player. Until this weekend I'd been playing entirely outside of the AE. TBH the leveling pace has been quite snappy. Playing at most a few hours a night, with plenty of nights off, I'm at 41 after about 4 weeks. There aren't many MMO's where I could get 80% of the way to capped with that little play time.
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Actually most of them you can now. This isn't like the old days in EQ where it took 6 months to reach cap on a dedicated toon.
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I did do a few hours of AE last night just to see what the fuss was all about. Yeah, it's a bit extreme. A few hours later I'd gained 3 1/2 levels and with some badge turn-ins and auctions I earned something like 3-4x the influence I'd earned in my entire time up to level 37.
I can definitely see where that's a bit extreme and I don't think it takes being snarky to point that out. I'm guessing that 10 days is even pretty slow and that if someone wanted to push it they could hit cap in a few days of full time AE. The easy influence and all the recipes flowing in HAVE to have a dramatic effect on the economy.
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Yes, you can definitely cap well before 10 days ... I'd say roughly 10-12 hours played on a good team so whatever you schedule is that makes that up (1 day for the power gamer). Of course this isn't really new to CoH ... you could do the samething on the Portal Corp farms and bridge teams that have been around ever since they put PI into the game.
As far as extreme ... I guess that depends your perspective. I can max level a toon on creation in Guild Wars. Each game has their own levelling pace, and these levelling paces tend to change (get faster) as the game progresses. EQ and DAoC both cut their levelling requirements in half by the 5 year mark (where CoH is now) with DAoC offering bonus XP *weeks* on top of that.
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I think it's only fair that you do whatever is the most fun for you in the game, whether it's balanced or not.
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This is a slippery slope. "Balanced" is very subjective and ultimately you have to conclude that whatever the devs made available in their game is their idea of "balanced" for it (past obvious exploits such as the Meow farms).
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However I also think that it's pretty easy to see that AE's are pretty out-of-whack with the intended balance of the game AND the non-AE leveling rate is already pretty damn fast compared to the other games out there. Crying out that you're going to quit if they tweak it down a bit, well, let me just say I've been playing MMO's for about 15 years now and you're not exactly the first person to raise a such a hew and cry about balance tweaks, justified or not.
Anyway, just my (probably wasted) thoughts as a casual outsider who doesn't really have a lot invested in the game.
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I do agree that when compared to the normal mission brand of levelling, that the AE missions can seem out of whack ... then again that's what you get when you put the options of a mission in the player's hands. Alternatively, if you were to do full group normal missions on CL3 or higher, you'd pretty much achieve the same result (probably closer to 15 hours played but by and large pretty close).
As far as MMOs go, the first one was created in 1997 (Ultima Online) which puts the MMO market at 12 years (just an FYI). You could possibly include Meridian59 in that, but that was really more of a graphical MUD (the main difference being scope of world and server pop). I have been playing MMOs since UO (or Meridian59 if you include that in the MMO genre) and have seen many changes in the genre and in each game as its progressed ... levelling pace is a constant that becomes quicker over the life span of the game (I don't know of a single MMO that this hasn't held true for).
As for economy ... CoH's "economy" started out skewed and virtually non-existent. In its current form, since inflated influence is available from L1, the economy doesn't suffer nor do the players for it.
Finally your thoughts aren't wasted ... I actually appreciate the thoughtful perspective (as opposed to the silly whining of "farming is evil" nonsense that usually abides these discussions).
In the end its a matter of perspective. In other games I was on your side of the fence. In this one, because of the way the game plays, the current form the end game, and the fact that some of the biggest enjoyment is making the toon itself, I find that the quick levelling makes for more interest not less (for me of course).
The WHARGARBL that this subject repeatedly spawns from the puritans' most salubrious tears is delectable.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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As far as MMOs go, the first one was created in 1997 (Ultima Online) which puts the MMO market at 12 years (just an FYI). You could possibly include Meridian59 in that, but that was really more of a graphical MUD (the main difference being scope of world and server pop).
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And I was writing code for, designing content for and playing MUD's with hundreds of concurrent players back in 1994. But thanks for telling me a lot of things that I already knew.
Anyway, I'm just providing an outside perspective. I've played most of the MMO's on the market today and not only most of the early graphical MMO's but I wrote code for some of the games upon which those early graphical MMO's were based (EQ is nothing but a Diku clone, with 3d graphics, for example). CoH is very easy to level in without AE and even easier with. While things can get a bit faster in some MMO's (the term is "mudflation") there are also other things like increased level caps and new content that tend to add new challenge to make up for the increased pace of the older content. Mudflation is generally understood to be a bad thing for the life of the game, not the other way around.
It all comes down to perceived value of content. As inflation occurs (and it pretty clearly is occuring, both in levels and currency) the perceived value of content drops. If perceived value drops a little it may not matter. When new content comes in that drops the value of something by an order of magnitude (and that's what I'm seeing with influence gains at the very least), that's a pretty obvious balance issue.
But hey man, lecture on! Obviously you do have a lot invested in this issue and it seems to be getting in the way of your objectivity a bit. Objectivity is really all I saw Clouded asking for so I thought I'd comment and say, as a relative outsider to the game, his comment certainly makes sense. You may disagree with the details, but his comment isn't snarky, it's just trying to offer a bit of perspective.
Thinking about this reminded me of a zoned that was implemented in a MUD I played over 15 years ago. Due to some balance issues it became the de facto leveling area for the latter third of the time it took to hit the cap level and it also gave easy access to some items that were way out of scope for the intended abilities of characters trivializing other challenges in the game.
And, 15 years ago, a debate much like this one raged, with people much like yourself claiming they'd quit if the developers ever dared take their content away from them. It's amazing the sense of entitlement some players can get.
Of course, eventually, the zone was significant changed, items were retroactively nerfed (though we didn't have that word at the time), and no one (that I can recall) actually quit over it because, frankly, everyone knew damn well that the thing wasn't balanced. Life went on.
The more MUDs change, the more they stay the same. :-)
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The more MUDs change, the more they stay the same. :-)
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That's it in a nutshell. Human behavior hasn't changed much in the 18 years I've been gaming online. I just got a scrapper to 39 in 3 days with nothing more than forming and leading pug AE's, and I work some days 
It's a fun trend but I question the sustainability in the long run.
Which did you develop for? I wrote for a few of the smaller ones (*** & derivatives), played many of the larger ones at some point during that time period.
<QR>
You should know that in arc# 235308 (bosses) you should probably bring two strong Tankers (we did it last night fairly quickly with an L30 and an L50). Three Tanker isn't a bad run either as long as you're making up the DPS (and depending how many packs you like to take at once).
Lemme contribute:
arc 244873: sewer map, all 52 lts (MA/Inv). Very good xp/minute and everyone can contribute, a tank is very handy in this.
Edit: bah, only worth it if you're 50 - the spawns are set to 46-54 so when i entered with my 25 tanker as lead the spawns were 46...
UPDATE:
Many maps have been pulled and republished under different IDs due to destructible/defendable objects being taken off the available list.
My Arc's new #: 265438 (L52 Bosses)
Did the republishing wipe out votes for all or just Kruunch? 
Die in a fire.
Hey, I voted on that damned mish and now it's like they didn't count. What is this, Iran?! 
dont you find the xp to slow down doing just bosses?...i tried a boss farm and honestly it took forever and really wasnt that great for xp.
course everyone is auto 50 on it and the team did kinda blow..but it seems with just my fire tank and p.ling everyone and letting them doorsit i have the faster flow of xp
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dont you find the xp to slow down doing just bosses?...i tried a boss farm and honestly it took forever and really wasnt that great for xp.
course everyone is auto 50 on it and the team did kinda blow..but it seems with just my fire tank and p.ling everyone and letting them doorsit i have the faster flow of xp
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L54 Boss farms I find a bit on the slow side. L52 Boss farms can net a toon in their 40s about 2 levels under an hour (basically one full map using mine as a base). I have yet to see a door farm that equals that. Soloing, LTs would be much faster yes.
Having said that, you need to put together your team with a little care (not a ton but some). You want a really strong Tanker (or 2 capable ones preferably), 2 Troller/Defenders and the rest DPS (hopefully without knockback).
The thing I really like about this farm is everyone participates and it's a fairly tough run with a full spawn (unlike the Hami bubble farms), so you actually learn something about the AT you're playing. Additionally you get tons of influence (11mil per map at 50 with a full group) and cap tickets per map, so L50s have a reason for hopping on as well.
If you really want to melt 54's, look for debuffers... tankers (all melee, really) are completely optional in my experience, but a solid taunt aura (or 2-3 depending on your groups' makeup/skill and penchant for fighting 50-60 at a time) can be useful for grouping them up. Of course, a smart toggle puller with some form of a soft slow or hard immob on the team can do nearly as good a job in my experience.
54 Boss farms are *really* slow if you build around tanks and dps, in my experience - to melt content and surpass the effects of the purple patch you need heavily stacked debuffs. 52's aren't as slow, but I find better exp in 54's when I take the time to put a team together. I wouldn't do 54's for ticket farming, but I'm not much of a farmer anyhoo.
Just my experiences, fwiw.
How do you do an L54 (or even L52) boss farm with no Tankers and do it quickly? I run with an L50 (heavily IO'd) Dark/Dark Defender quite often and he pulls mobs fine but doesn't provide near the protection needed for a fast run.
*scratches head*
P.S. - While L54s will gain you more experience over the same map ... I can usually do 2 L52 maps in the time it would take the same team to do an L54. The difference is that big.
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How do you do an L54 (or even L52) boss farm with no Tankers and do it quickly? I run with an L50 (heavily IO'd) Dark/Dark Defender quite often and he pulls mobs fine but doesn't provide near the protection needed for a fast run.
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Edit: And while yes, making a build that can do it is more than possible (heck I have it in Mid's already), I can't justify putting 2-3billion at this time. What with the other defenders, tanks and scrappers aching for influence.
That's because I'm not setup for enough recharge (yet) to run at that speed and the reason I pull. The tank (when it's not you) usually doesn't pull enough or fast enough and I get impatient. When everything's up, lvl 52's are floored, immobile, feared, slowed, doing 30 less damage, taking 30 more damage, and sometimes stunned. Oh and if I'm not flying, you're also getting to-hit, +dmg and defense. If running 54's then you'd compensate for the level difference but that's when debuff stacking (as in more debuffers) really comes into play. Then again, either you or mitch can roll a D3
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How do you do an L54 (or even L52) boss farm with no Tankers and do it quickly? I run with an L50 (heavily IO'd) Dark/Dark Defender quite often and he pulls mobs fine but doesn't provide near the protection needed for a fast run.
*scratches head*
P.S. - While L54s will gain you more experience over the same map ... I can usually do 2 L52 maps in the time it would take the same team to do an L54. The difference is that big.
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True, I tried a 54 boss farm on my SO'ed invul tanker and she go murdered. Then I suggested your map and things ran smoothly, I was with a group of 40+ and had no problems tanking and surviving.
This idea seems to be a good way for me to get past the annoying tanking levels...
I may use this up until 22 and then go on to story arcs, so I can feel like a tanker.