Extending All Travel Powers Past 20
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-19 06:28 in Suggestions and Ideas
I doubt it since most people balk at the fact they have to take a power like say HOVER before they can get FLY. Unless these new powers provide added defenses,buffs to attacks or whatever I seriously doubt a lot of players would be interested. Case in point .. the reward for earning the 60 month VET badge is the ability to skip that first power, and at level 6 .. I believe, go ahead and take Teleport, Fly, Super Speed, etc. This saves them a slot they can then use to add to their attack chain or to their defenses. That was being suggested here for a long time before it became available and even then only to players with 5 years in game.
The cold hard fact is most people view travel powers as a necessary evil (sort of) and only take what they absolutely need before concentrating solely on their primary, secondary, and any other pool power set they may desire. Players have been screaming for STAMINA to be available without having to take 2 other powers for years and that hasn't happened yet (probably never will).
It's not a horrible idea but unless you have specific ideas for added powers that would actually entice players to want them I don't see many actually wanting or caring more travel options.
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I doubt it since most people balk at the fact they have to take a power like say HOVER before they can get FLY. Unless these new powers provide added defenses,buffs to attacks or whatever I seriously doubt a lot of players would be interested. Case in point .. the reward for earning the 60 month VET badge is the ability to skip that first power, and at level 6 .. I believe, go ahead and take Teleport, Fly, Super Speed, etc. This saves them a slot they can then use to add to their attack chain or to their defenses. That was being suggested here for a long time before it became available and even then only to players with 5 years in game.
The cold hard fact is most people view travel powers as a necessary evil (sort of) and only take what they absolutely need before concentrating solely on their primary, secondary, and any other pool power set they may desire. Players have been screaming for STAMINA to be available without having to take 2 other powers for years and that hasn't happened yet (probably never will).
It's not a horrible idea but unless you have specific ideas for added powers that would actually entice players to want them I don't see many actually wanting or caring more travel options.
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Thanks for the response.
Here is an idea, off the top of my head for one travel power:
Flying
6 Hover, Air Superiority
14 Flight
20 Group Flight
24 Turbo Boost - A Click Power. Allows the flyer to boost his speed for 30 seconds, doubling his movement. Recharge: Long.
28 Flight Acrobatics - Toggle. Increases Defense and adds a small bonus to flight speed.
32 Aero Thrust - Click Power, melee. Using your propulsion power, you propel your target away from you for moderate damage and knockback.
36 Air Strafe - A Click Power, allows you perform an attack without supression. 30 Seconds. Recharge: Long
40 Death From Above - A Target, Click Power, allows you to fly directly towards a target, striking him for knockback. Damage: Moderate. Area of Effect: 15 Ft. Rad., Recharge: Long.
Obviously this list is not refined, but could be over time.
none of these would actually make me want to take them. that is what i have primary and secondary powers for. and would you really want to replace 3 slots at 36 and 40 for a power?
And for a player to take these powers, they would have to lose a whole other power pool or else decline taking some of their primary/secondary powers, because they wouldn't be able to slot them properly without the slots they'd lose to have those extra powers.
Sorry, but don't see it happening...ever. As Wicked_Wendy pointed out, most people don't like the fact that they have to take one power before they get their travel power, and I've only rarely seen people take the last power out of a travel power set because it takes a power choice that they could use for another attack, defense ability, etc.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure have seen suggestions for taking *all* the pool powers into a "tier 5" and beyond.
And those suggestions were directed up to Lady_Jade's Powers Suggestions thread above, so you should probably go look there.
I have to agree with DKyo that setting up as many as you have suggested would be giving up too many other things I could have taken instead.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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And for a player to take these powers, they would have to lose a whole other power pool or else decline taking some of their primary/secondary powers, because they wouldn't be able to slot them properly without the slots they'd lose to have those extra powers.
Sorry, but don't see it happening...ever. As Wicked_Wendy pointed out, most people don't like the fact that they have to take one power before they get their travel power, and I've only rarely seen people take the last power out of a travel power set because it takes a power choice that they could use for another attack, defense ability, etc.
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No offense; I thank you for the response. But this isn't about one person...this is about more choices for everyone.
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none of these would actually make me want to take them. that is what i have primary and secondary powers for. and would you really want to replace 3 slots at 36 and 40 for a power?
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I think the goal is to provide more diversity. If people want more choices, its better. Less choices means more restrictions.
Just because the powers don't appeal to you...that doesn't mean the powers don't have appeal.
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none of these would actually make me want to take them. that is what i have primary and secondary powers for. and would you really want to replace 3 slots at 36 and 40 for a power?
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I think the goal is to provide more diversity. If people want more choices, its better. Less choices means more restrictions.
Just because the powers don't appeal to you...that doesn't mean the powers don't have appeal.
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True enough - but do they have enough generalized appeal to the playerbase at large to justify development time, especially if it would be at the expense of other things that might have more general appeal?
So far, you haven't gotten much support in this thread, not that the forums are necessarily a good microcosm of the playerbase at large - but that should be taken as an indication of a lack of support for your idea as opposed to some others.
BTW - have you looked to see how this idea has been raised before in Lady_Jade's stickied thread?
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Here's a breakdown of the issues something like this causes:
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Flying
24 Turbo Boost - A Click Power. Allows the flyer to boost his speed for 30 seconds, doubling his movement. Recharge: Long.
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It's very easy to hit the flight cap. As it is, my electric armor brute with swift and lightning reflexes (and one +5% speed IO bonus) does it without a single extra slot in Fly. A temporary buff to fly speed might be useful at low levels, but that's what the GvE Jump Pack is good for (it adds to fly speed for about 30 seconds). At high levels, because flight (and super jump) get faster as you level, this power would provide virtually no benefit.
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28 Flight Acrobatics - Toggle. Increases Defense and adds a small bonus to flight speed.
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By necessity, the defense from this would be quite low. Also, area defense? Ranged defense? Melee defense? Or do you mean typed defense (and if so, what types? I can't think of a single reason why flying (and being away from any viable cover) would make you significantly more difficult to hit. If it's speed based, then this would only really provide Ranged defense--and I could see its value for helping to, say, soft cap a flying Fortunata's ranged defense; but otherwise it's of very little benefit.
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32 Aero Thrust - Click Power, melee. Using your propulsion power, you propel your target away from you for moderate damage and knockback.
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By necessity this would be weaker then a normal non-pool attack; or cost much more. Plus, Knockback is annoying.
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36 Air Strafe - A Click Power, allows you perform an attack without supression. 30 Seconds. Recharge: Long
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Only useful for blasters in PVP. Honestly, something like this would have virtually no value in the normal game; and suppression really isn't that big a deal.
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40 Death From Above - A Target, Click Power, allows you to fly directly towards a target, striking him for knockback. Damage: Moderate. Area of Effect: 15 Ft. Rad., Recharge: Long.
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They'd have to make this like Shield Charge / Lightning Rod for mechanics issues, and again, it would be significantly weaker then a normal attack from a normal powerset.
This idea has quite a few problems... the one power I could see them adding as a "tier 5" (also available at level 20) would be "Flight Acrobatics", because people are always looking for ways to increase their defense. Slap in some slow or immobilize resistance, and that power would be very viable.
Otherwise: Speed caps are in the game for a reason (engine limitations--if you move too fast, the game can't render things quickly enough which looks terrible); and while I wouldn't mind flight being slightly faster, Flight's low-ish speed is the price you pay for being 100% safe (and able to chat) while traveling.
A reasonable idea, but it needs a lot of polish and should probably be reduced to a more reasonable scope. I'd rather the power guys be working on whole new power pools, or better yet new power sets.
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What if, for example, there was a teleport strike power available at lvl 32, that allowed you to teleport and punch a target at the same time?
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If you master the use of Teleport you can already do this. There is no need for a power to simulate something I can already do.
The trick with Combat Teleporting is to aim with your cursor, not the reticle. Aim your cursor at the feet of the enemy you want to teleport to and bamf in and smack him one. It's easy once you get used to it.
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Power Pools are meant to be used to augment your power sets, not to make up the bulk of your powers, and they probably couldn't think of that many powers for every single Power Pool anyway.
Okay, this kind of a suggestion typically devolves into a flamewar, but here we go anyway. 
I think I'd settle for one additional tier in *ALL* of the the power pools. Unlock it at the higher levels. Naturally, that's easier said than done. Powers get unlocked at very specific points in your career, but it would be far more complicated with as many options as the OP is providing. (Consider the epic pools. Where would they fit in with all those extra options?)
What I might present, in the case of travel powers, is a way to enhance their effectiveness. For leaping and teleporting, increase the jumping distance. For runners, enhance the stealth. For fliers, give a minor increase to the flight speed cap. In all these cases, provide them as toggle powers that cost endurance (possibly LOTS of it).
Now what you do about the other power pools is anyone's guess. What would you do with fitness? Provide some sort of mez resistance? Strength of Mind, perhaps? I dunno.
But I'm thinking that a single tier-5 power in each pool would be far more diverse and help everyone. It would also alleviate the whole slotting issue.
Again, that's just my two cents.
Adding in more powers/AT/content is always good in my book
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Adding in more powers/AT/content is always good in my book
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That was my impression as well. I believe it was the person after me, who requested an example, and I made one up (I even mentioned that it was an off the cuff example). Now everyone is debating the details.
The truth is, there are no details. Not yet. So it's pointless to debate them.
Someone even went as far to meticulously provide counterpoints to every power I made in an example. What was the necessity of this?
And finally, the impression is that, by providing more choices, you are limiting the existing choices. One poster even indirectly suggested that this would mess up their choices in their primary and seconary powersets. ?????? What??
Let me reinstate my premise. I would like to see more powers in the pool powers. Although my topic states travel powers, I'm actually thinking about all the pool powers.
Although I listed 24, 28, 32, 36, and 40, I would also be interested in 2 different choices at 20 and 2 different choices at 14. Or any form of implementation that consists of more choices.
More is better.
And, of course, if your counterpoint is that this takes away from other things they are doing....then I say to you, "Let them decide!"
this thread is not often read by the dev's hence the part of the forims this is in: fun and games. the only thread that really is read by a dev is lady jades thread. this section is for players to discuss ideas and suggestions. as you can see there are not alot of people that like this idea. if the people arent going to take these powers why would the dev team waste time to develope them when they can spend the time developing new zones or missions of tf/sf's?
you asked us what we thought and we told you and now that you see that a vast majority of the people don't like the idea you are starting to whine about people discussing your idea. if you can't handle a discussion then you shouldn't have started the thread. this is not "i came up with an idea and everyone has to like it".
Okay, tell you what then. Try to think up 5 new powers for each Power Pool yourself. Make sure they fit in with the concept of the pool and make sure that they wouldn't unbalance the characters and that players couldn't gimp themselves by taking too many of these Pool Powers. Finally make sure that your powers are not exact duplicates of other powers that are already available in the game.
It's not as easy as you are thinking it is.
I'm fully in support of more powers--the reason I did a breakdown of the ones you listed was to show you how difficult it is to actually think of viable options. With powers like "Whirlwind" in some pools, well... I think you start to get the idea. It's not as easy to come up with useful additions to the sets.
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Let me reinstate my premise. I would like to see more powers in the pool powers.
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Those restrictions that you're chafing against are there for your own protection, both from making mistakes yourself and from having to deal with the mistakes of others (like some numbtard who decided to take 19 pool powers and three primary/secondary powers).
There is precedent for adding one more power to each pool, as they did with the recent changes to the APPs/PPPs, but even if they do decide to go that route, don't expect more, you'll be sorely disappointed. It's far, far more likely that they'll add more pools than expand the existing pools.
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Let me reinstate my premise. I would like to see more powers in the pool powers.
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Those restrictions that you're chafing against are there for your own protection, both from making mistakes yourself and from having to deal with the mistakes of others (like some numbtard who decided to take 19 pool powers and three primary/secondary powers).
There is precedent for adding one more power to each pool, as they did with the recent changes to the APPs/PPPs, but even if they do decide to go that route, don't expect more, you'll be sorely disappointed. It's far, far more likely that they'll add more pools than expand the existing pools.
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Now that I wouldn't mind seeing.
Have you noticed the pattern found in the travel power pools? They typically go with an Attack, what I call a "Proto-Power" (meaning a miniature version of the travel power), the travel power itself, and a support power.
They usually fit into that pattern.
The attacks, Air Sup, Jump Kick, Flurry, and Teleport Foe (not quite an attack, but it does fit the role, kinda).
The miniature powers with Hover, Combat Jumping, Hasten and Recall Friend. With Hover and Combat Jumping it is a mini-travel power, a minor +Def and is made to be used in combat. Hasten lacks the +Def but is made for combat. Recall Friend is, well, the black sheep of the family, although Teleport Foe fits the "In Combat" ideal in a way too. Love using that on runners.
Then there's the support area with Group Fly, Acrobatics, Whirlwind and Group Teleport. Group Fly/TP are supporting the team with movement, Whirlwind by knocking the enemies around (Love it or Hate it, KB is a way to keep enemies busy) and Acro is a self support.
Following (even if loosely) this pattern, what could be added to fill out the Power Pools?
Maybe a larger version of the pool's attack (like Boxing and Kick in Fighting?) with more damage (with a balancing of a large cost for End and/or Recharge)? Might be a cool way to re-create the old Chun-Li rapid kick by making a Flurry-Kicking version, maybe a fly-bicycle kick for Fly that does KnockUp, Super Jump's new attack could a double-spin kick (think Storm Kick's animation played twice), and Teleport getting a more proper attack with a simple 'teleport slam'. I didn't think these through anymore than an 'instant idea' so they're gonna be rough in idea.
If not an extra attack, what else could be added that would be diverse between the pools without being completely exclusive? The only thing I could think would be it would be to copy over the powers that the pool lacks compared to the others. Acrobatics could be added to the others while Super Jump gets a team support (Something along the lines of Kinetics' Inertial Reduction maybe?)? It's not a good idea, but it could be done. I wouldn't mind getting an Acrobatics copy for my non-Jumping squishies, although this idea would throw out any uniqueness in the sets, which is something I do like.
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The only thing I see missing from the power pools is a weak ranged attack set.
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The only thing I see missing from the power pools is a weak ranged attack set.
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Well, since there's a Fighting pool that gives two lower-tier attacks and two low-tier armors, that could be a new pool. Could be a way to make a pistol power pool.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
I don't see why they couldn't cobble 4 powers together out of some of the pre-existing temp powers, then tweak them for balance.
Although the more options the merrier, you do need to stop at some point, not expanding powersets indefinitely. I believe power pools are supposed to supplement the primary and secondary power sets. So, power pools should be smaller than 9 powers, such that players cannot "specialize" in them. I think 4 powers in a pool is more or less right. I would welcome one or two new powers, as it has been done in other types of power pools.
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Let me reinstate my premise. I would like to see more powers in the pool powers.
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Those restrictions that you're chafing against are there for your own protection...
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No they aren't. Because if you screwed up your character, you could simply respec him. Or even REROLL him.
Has a developer ever made that statement?
I was wondering if anyone has ever suggested extending the travel power pool sets past 20, broadening them to add more unique techniques.
For example, add new powers available at 24, 28, 32, 36, and 40.
Lots of people have good ideas. These could really augment our existing means of travel. What if, for example, there was a teleport strike power available at lvl 32, that allowed you to teleport and punch a target at the same time? What if Flying had a power called turbo boost, that allowed you to increase your flight speed for 30 seconds.