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Thoughts?
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Won't fix anything. As long as KB is available, there will be people (including myself) who take and use KB powers, and there will be people who complain about people who take and use KB powers.
Making optional KD powers won't change that. It's not the powers that KB haters object to, it's the (poor) use of those powers by other players.
The main complaints I have seen, that can actually be addressed, were that people would take certain powers if they had KD instead of KB. I believe this would fix that issue.
There will always be people that complain about how others use their powers and that will never change. I would not even pretend to try and offer a solution to that problem.
I think that it is the best for players to decide whether to use kb or kd. However, I don't think it really solves the problem if the choice is made during power selection. For example, a blaster with energy blast may want kb during solo, but kd when teaming. The suggestion still doesn't resolve the issue of kb being a situational power, and it is important that players can choose between kb and kd in real time.
I prefer something like clicking energy blast if you want kd, but shift-clicking the power if you want kb. Knockback enhancement can still enhance knockback distance if you shift-click.
It's mainly tanks and other melee types that complain about KB. Here's a solution I think would satisfy 90% of scenarios (not sure how difficult it'd be to implement though).
1) If Mobs are Aggroed on you (or not yet aggroed), then the effect is Knock Back.
2) If they're Aggroed on another player, then the effect is Knock Down.
That way, if you're soloing or mobs are beating down on you, then your mitigating KB comes in handy. But if they're on someone else, then you can give your teammate a breather by knocking the foes down, but not away so they have to chase them.
You'd have to exercise some discretion (such as letting the Tank get aggro first), but that's pretty much standard team play already
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I prefer something like clicking energy blast if you want kd, but shift-clicking the power if you want kb. Knockback enhancement can still enhance knockback distance if you shift-click.
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Not useful if you use the number keys to activate powers.
KB is one of the most characterful effects in the game, and it doesn't need to be 'fixed.' If AoE users can't kill a spawn unless every enemy is in exactly the right position then they need to dial down their difficulty, and if Tankers get upset by KB messing up their herds that only reinforces the stereotype of Tankers as insecure control freaks who expect the entire team to revolve around them.
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I prefer something like clicking energy blast if you want kd, but shift-clicking the power if you want kb. Knockback enhancement can still enhance knockback distance if you shift-click.
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Not useful if you use the number keys to activate powers.
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The click and shift-click that I mentioned is just an example. CoH allows you to define a different keystroke to activate a power.
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KB is one of the most characterful effects in the game, and it doesn't need to be 'fixed.' If AoE users can't kill a spawn unless every enemy is in exactly the right position then they need to dial down their difficulty, and if Tankers get upset by KB messing up their herds that only reinforces the stereotype of Tankers as insecure control freaks who expect the entire team to revolve around them.
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I agree that kb is a nice effect. In my opinion, even if it is the most characterful effect, a player may not always want it. So, I think it should be a situational power. If this effect is embedded in something like energy blast, then people don't have a choice and can't turn off the effect. It is like a situational power but can't be used situationally. In this sense, I think the implementation of kb in game has a problem.
Edit: I'd like to add that the suggestion is not to remove kb. If you love kb, you can continue to use it whenever you want as before. Just that for those who don't want to always kb, the suggestion offers a choice for them, without any effect to the kb lovers.
Exactly SnowLace. And unlike the shift-click proposal, my suggestion has been proven that it can be done based on what has been done in the last couple issues.
Yeah, the shift-click thing needs some extra work. Actually, I can already envision that people will jranger it because of the work it takes for just a QoL improvement. Your suggestion can be done more easily. I think the problem is that if I want to kb this mob but kd the other mob, I've to change build to do that. Your suggestion still lacks the flexibility for tapping the full potential of kb/kd tactics.
I personally would love this idea. I absolutely hate KB on my NRG/ blaster simply because I know that tightly huddled groups are alot easier to deal with than scattered ones.
I made my NRG/ blaster for theme reasons when I first purchased the game, if I would have possessed the knowledge about the set then as I do now, than I more than likely would've picked different. Great suggestion Helin.
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
Leave my KB alone -_-
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Leave my KB alone -_-
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What part of the suggestion I made would alter your KB?
Should just put a system in place that allows the team leader to change the secondary effects of his team mates powers. Meaning he could make energy blast powers either do knockback or knockdown.
When the team leader chooses what he is going to allow and not allow all party members will receive a pop up warning informing them that the team leader has made has made changes to team mates powers and it will promp them to stay or leave the team.
A solo player should also have this choice on his own.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
The fact that people like you would probably ask/tell us to only put it on knockdown instead of back. Therefore people like you altering our playstyles.
Not a good idea.
This thread doesn't jump the gun - it digs up the ore that will be refined to eventually forge the gun that would have been jumped. -Obsidius
I am a Dominator,
And I am a Jerk 4 life.
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When the team leader chooses what he is going to allow and not allow
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The game becomes a dictatorship, run by a child.
In this game, the only things a team leader has the responsibility or authority to decide is who to invite and which mission the team is doing, and if there is a problem, that problem is discussion amongst the players as adults, not by some rampaging jackass forcing the entire team to conform to his egotistical and unilateral decisions.
No.
I've suggested before creating a IO that turns knockback into knockdown.
I suspect many powers are balanced around the fact they do knockback. Repulsion Field in Force Fields or Repel in Kinetics, for example, become insanely powerful if they do Knockdown - stand next to a +5 boss and keep him permanently disabled.
Bonfire in Fire Control or the Blaster epic would be ridiculous as a knockdown damage patch.
The milder examples like Handclap and Energy Torrent become more useful when they do knockdown. This would be worth sacrificing a slot for if you wanted it.
And this puts control in the hands of the player. I'd hate to get on a team and have the leader dictate how my powers behaved.
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Leave my KB alone -_-
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What part of the suggestion I made would alter your KB?
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I don't think they read, they just assume that we suggest to change kb to kd. But well, this is the internet. 
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Should just put a system in place that allows the team leader to change the secondary effects of his team mates powers. Meaning he could make energy blast powers either do knockback or knockdown.
When the team leader chooses what he is going to allow and not allow all party members will receive a pop up warning informing them that the team leader has made has made changes to team mates powers and it will promp them to stay or leave the team.
A solo player should also have this choice on his own.
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So as a team leader, I could choose not to allow the secdondary DoT of any Fire powerset or the Slow for any Ice powerset or the -Res for Sonic powersets or End Drain for any Electric powersets? Interesting concept....
How do I put this delicately - oh, wait, I know -
OK, Lumi already put it as delicately as possible
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The game becomes a dictatorship, run by a child.
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So I guess I would just leave it at "NO".
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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I've suggested before creating a IO that turns knockback into knockdown.
I suspect many powers are balanced around the fact they do knockback. Repulsion Field in Force Fields or Repel in Kinetics, for example, become insanely powerful if they do Knockdown - stand next to a +5 boss and keep him permanently disabled.
Bonfire in Fire Control or the Blaster epic would be ridiculous as a knockdown damage patch.
The milder examples like Handclap and Energy Torrent become more useful when they do knockdown. This would be worth sacrificing a slot for if you wanted it.
And this puts control in the hands of the player. I'd hate to get on a team and have the leader dictate how my powers behaved.
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I'd find that to be more useful, but yeah some of the KB powers could be really overpowered if they did KD instead of KB.
Maybe the -Knockback enhancement could be small enough to ensure someone would have to sacrifice a lot to become knockdown?
I admit that even that wouldn't fix it, but maybe that could work to an extent? I'd absolutely love to change some of my KB powers to KD. I'd love to change my Stone tanker's Fault into a KD so I could hit with that first to stun and then use Fault to damage and knockback.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
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Leave my KB alone -_-
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What part of the suggestion I made would alter your KB?
[/ QUOTE ]It would legitimize the perspective that there's something 'wrong' with KB while making a more-powerful, less skill-intensive version of the same power available with no comparative drawbacks.
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Leave my KB alone -_-
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What part of the suggestion I made would alter your KB?
[/ QUOTE ]It would legitimize the perspective that there's something 'wrong' with KB while making a more-powerful, less skill-intensive version of the same power available with no comparative drawbacks.
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This.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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When the team leader chooses what he is going to allow and not allow
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The game becomes a dictatorship, run by a child.
In this game, the only things a team leader has the responsibility or authority to decide is who to invite and which mission the team is doing, and if there is a problem, that problem is discussion amongst the players as adults, not by some rampaging jackass forcing the entire team to conform to his egotistical and unilateral decisions.
No.
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Then you simply leave the team if you don't like how the team leader is acting just like I leave the team now if someone complains about X power doing x thing.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
This suggestion wouldn't do anything for me. When I'm playing a character that has knockback powers, I LIKE knockback. It only annoys me when I'm not the one that has it.
I posted this in another area but figured it would fit in the suggestion box a bit better.
There are plenty of people that dislike knockback and would rather see the knockback turned into knockdown instead. There are also plety of people that like their knockback the way it is and would hate to see it changed.
I have seen several suggestions so far but all of them favor one side or the other. I say why not please both sides.
The devs have shown us that they can make powers mutually exclusive. Meaning if you have power A you cannot have power B. Example on Widdows you cannot take Follow up and Build Up on the same build.
The devs have also shown us that you can have more than one power made available at a given level. Take for example any of the patron or epic pools that have 5 powers.
What I am suggesting is taking powers like Handclap and making another version that has knockdown istead of knockback. The 2 different versions would not be able to be used on the same build.
This could also be used on powers like shockwave for claws. I know I skipped that great power on my Claws / WP scrapper because I would rather keep mobs close to me to fuel RttC so I would like KD on that. Others who would rather have the better mitigation of KB would still be able to pick that power.
The main reason I have not played MA is Crane Kick. If I could pick a Crane Kick option that had Knock up (Like KO Blow) instead of Knockback I would actually play one.
There are plenty of other powers like Explosive arrow, M30 Grenade, Explosive blast and others that could use this as well. This way it would be up to the player to decide what they wanted. You could then make 2 builds, one for solo with KB and one on teams that had KD if you like.
Thoughts?
Edit for clarity.