Can someone give me a basic rundown of this AT?
First of all, you should read some of the guides in the guide section.
However, here goes...
Peacebringers (PB) are Scrankfenders (Scrapper/Tanker/Defender) mix who are capable of holding aggro quite well with their Dwarf form, heal themselves (2 self-heal powers in Human form, one in Dwarf form) and heal a team-mate (with a power in Human-form). They also have two AoE KB powers (Solar Flare in Human form and White Dwarf Flare in Dwarf form) an AoE stun power (Pulsar, Human form) and a two other AoE damage powers both in Human form, one of which has a noticeable endurance crash effect. Generally speaking a PB is less intensive to play than a Warshade simple because Warshades have more tactical options to them and require a constant vigil and usage of the enemies around the WS to survive.
Warshades (WS) are Trollkers (Controller/Stalker) beasts who can teleport themselves (either cloaked, or not, as they prefer) into a group of enemies, and then in quick succession boost their own accuracy (Sunless Mire, Human form) and damage potential as well as their damage-resist (Eclipse, Human form) and then use varied tactics to take out the enemy group and with each defeated foe, replenish their HP and Endurance (Stygian Circle, Human form) or even extract a defeated foes' essence to fight for them as a temporary pet (up to 3/4 extracted essences can be out at any one time depending on the WS build and the other team granted buffs). The trollerish part of a WS comes from their ability to stack (by themselves, mind you) stun effect on an enemy group through the use of Inky Aspect and Gravitic Emanation, both from the WS Human form.
Both Kheldian AT's have Nova form which has 2 single-target blast, one cone blast and one AoE blast attacks. Most Kheldian attacks (if not all) carry minor debuffs to the enemies, PB's debuff an enemys' ability to defend itself, thus making future attacks hit more often, while WS's slows down the enemies debuffing both their rate of attack and movement.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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First of all, you should read some of the guides in the guide section.
However, here goes...
Peacebringers (PB) are Scrankfenders (Scrapper/Tanker/Defender) mix who are capable of holding aggro quite well with their Dwarf form, heal themselves (2 self-heal powers in Human form, one in Dwarf form) and heal a team-mate (with a power in Human-form). They also have two AoE KB powers (Solar Flare in Human form and White Dwarf Flare in Dwarf form) an AoE stun power (Pulsar, Human form) and a two other AoE damage powers both in Human form, one of which has a noticeable endurance crash effect. Generally speaking a PB is less intensive to play than a Warshade simple because Warshades have more tactical options to them and require a constant vigil and usage of the enemies around the WS to survive.
Warshades (WS) are Trollkers (Controller/Stalker) beasts who can teleport themselves (either cloaked, or not, as they prefer) into a group of enemies, and then in quick succession boost their own accuracy (Sunless Mire, Human form) and damage potential as well as their damage-resist (Eclipse, Human form) and then use varied tactics to take out the enemy group and with each defeated foe, replenish their HP and Endurance (Stygian Circle, Human form) or even extract a defeated foes' essence to fight for them as a temporary pet (up to 3/4 extracted essences can be out at any one time depending on the WS build and the other team granted buffs). The trollerish part of a WS comes from their ability to stack (by themselves, mind you) stun effect on an enemy group through the use of Inky Aspect and Gravitic Emanation, both from the WS Human form.
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Ah thankya kindly, and I apologize for the board clutter. I just wanted to know which type of kheld me and my friend should each play to suit our general styles.
I like being a more protector-y role so I'd prolly be a PB.
No problem, and have fun with your Kheldians 
By the way, a PB will be quite the protector, but a duo of PB+WS doesn't need to focus on protecting either Kheldian if they are coordinated in their attacks and strategies.
Another point worth mentioning though, is that since Kheldians gain great buffs from their team-mates, a Kheldian running with an 8-man team with varied AT's would be more powerful than a Kheldian running with an 8-Kheldian team because Kheldians only grant a slow-resist bonus to each other while other AT's grant more varied and useful bonuses. Essentially, be prepared to take things slow when duoing with your friend on your Kheldian characters.
If you guys want an All-Kheldian SG to run with, we're on Infinity, and we're always looking for more.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Epic ATs should give Khelds an outright Recharge Bonus instead a measly slow-resist bonus. I think 5% per Epic is good. Would 8-kheld teams with a 35% recharge bonus be overpowered...? Maybe, but certainly not any more that certain 8-Controller or 8-Defender Teams that utterly destroy content...and as always, those situations wouldn't happen daily.
Why was Slow Resist selected for the Epic bonus anyway? What was the brain storm behind that? Was is it because Nictus (the main Kheld Enemy) slows combatants, and Khelds banded together were supposed to better fight them?
In any case, it's not enough; certainly not enough to make one salivate when teaming with another Epic.
I'd speculate that slow resistance was given to Kheldians because of how active the AT requires its players to be. Kheldians lack constant performance in crowd control, damage dealing, not to mention not being able to debuff anything, unless they are in constant action, running around and activating their powers.
About running with an All-Kheldian Team... to be honest, those teams can be either very exciting and fun (when everyone works together) or can become catastrophes with repeated team-wipes.
I think Kheldians should buff themselves with a trio of stat boosts and not just one. Give lower values of course, but make it multiple values instead of just one stat that gets a large boost but in most situation doesn't mean much to the team.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
What's the difference between a Peacebringer and a Warshade?
This has been getting asked often enough from new (or soon to be) 50s to merit a quick-reply cut and paste from me. Welcome to the world of Khelds! Enjoy your stay?
Basic reading
These guides will help you a lot:
Iscariot's guide to the triform Warshade by Justaris. Yes, it's warshade specific.
Plasma's ultimate guide to Kheldians for a very thorough overview. Really. It's long-ish, but read it.
And for the backstory, there's my own backstory guide. More "in game lore" than powers.
A quick overview
Khelds in general - Can be built around one (human) form or multiple forms, known as biform or triform. The other forms act like a blaster and a sort of "pocket tank." Human form buffs carry over - if you hit Hasten, you get it for the full length of Hasten. it doesn't cut off when you switch forms. Toggles, however, do at this time.
That said, the two are different in many fundamental ways.
Peacebringer - the old reliable.
Peacebringers are completely "self contained" Khelds. What this means is that all of their buffs and heals are going to act exactly the same, given the same level and slotting, every time. If you're level 40 and hit your self-heal for, say, 200 HP (making up a number) one time, and you hit it again without levelling, you'll get 200 HP again.
Peacebringers are more melee-oriented. They're more "in your face" than a Warshade. The example I used one other time was, if you insult a Peacebringer in a bar, they'll punch you in the mouth. A Warshade will go outside, slit your tires and fill your gas tank with sugar.
Peacebringers get Fly as an inherent travel power, and are locked out of any form of Teleport (other than the Dwarf form teleport, if you take that form.) And all Peacebringer attacks do a -defense debuff to whatever they hit.
Peacebringer Dwarf form gets an AOE knockdown and a click self heal that, again, is completely self contained.
Warshades - the wild, unpredictable ride.
Warshades have higher highs and lower lows in their performance. Where Peacebringers are completely self contained, Warshades rely on living or defeated foes for their buffs. Self heals - especially Stygian Circle - perform better with more defeated enemies around. Self buffs - such as Sunless Mire and Ecliipse - will give greater benefit with more live foes around. (This is part of why they also get some self-stealth, an oppressive Gloom clone, and I'm pretty sure part of the reason behind Teleport.)
Warshades are very control heavy. Every attack does some -slow and -recharge if it hits. They get an option of self stealth in shadow cloak, an Oppressive Gloom (PBAOE stun) clone, Gravity Well as a hold and other immobilizes and stuns.
Warshades also get somewhat longer lasting pets (and, generally, more useful) in Extracted Essence, which adds to your firepower, but requires a freshly defeated enemy to extract. It's also pretty much impossible to get them from ghost-type enemies and machines that explode. You can, with enough recharge, have up to three of them out for a short time, but they will expire. The plus side is that they do stick around once you're defeated. A Warshade in Nova with two "koosh balls" next to them spitting out damage is loads of fun.
Warshade Dwarf form gets another Mire (recently buffed!) and their self heal is a single-target attack which must hit - it's a copy of Siphon Life from Dark Melee.
Warshades, of course, also start with Teleport and are locked out of Fly (except in Nova form.) that said, TP Foe (Starless Step) and Gravity Well (your hold) are an excellent way to take care of pesky Void hunters before they get a shot off at you. You also get Shadow Recall at level 10, which pre-travel-power teammates (and later, those who want to stealth missions) will greatly appreciate.
Which is better?
They're both good, but they shine in different situations. If I'm clearing out a map, a Warshade's going to have lots of groups to play with, siphon from, get essences and the like. If I'm facing a long, one on one fight versus, say, an AV or EB, the Peacebringer's going to have an easier time with it, as the Warshade will only have the one target to buff from and will, over time, lose the essences.
I *generally* suggest a first time Kheld start with a Peacebringer to get a feel for everything. That said, they're both a lot of fun - and yes, I have multiples of them at 50, and don't regreat any of them.
I just recently started my first two Kheldians myself, one of each flavor, and I'm following the guides others have linked to in this thread.
Still only in the mid-teens (Peacebringer) and mid-20s (Warshade), but basically my take on the two is this:
PB plays more like a blaster/scrapper hybrid. It plays more like you expect. Find stuff, kill it, use self-heals as needed. Works better on a team than solo, but if you've ever soloed an Energy/Energy blaster then you'll be able to solo a PB.
Taking on a Void means focusing all your attacks on that one foe until he's dead. This to me is where a Warshade has a better chance solo, they have more tools to deal with Voids.
Warshade reminds me more of playing a /Devices blaster. A lot more strategy. Stealth, TP Foe, a melee-ranged Hold. It seems to have a lot more utility, at the expense of raw power.
Also, anything that resists Negative Energy (CoT, Banished Pantheon) are going to make you sad. Especially things that don't leave corpses for Stygian Circle (CoT Ghosts, damn them). A friend suggests getting the Ghost-Slaying Axe over Sands of Mu (Vet reward power), specifically to deal with these types of foes on a WS.
With both, mezzers are a pain. You'll have to take them on in Dwarf form (unless you land your hold first with a Warshade), and just beat on them slowly until they die.
Here's the biggest tip I can give you - get on big teams. Once you're on a relatively large team, you'll go "OH! That's what Kheldians are good at." I was on a team at level 21 on my Warshade, just after getting Dwarf but before SOs, and I was at the 85% resist cap for all damage (non-psi) due to the team buff. Find me a level 21 tanker that can achieve that.
Soloing is doable, and quite challenging. If you like playing on "hard mode" to really learn all the tricks of your powers and tactics, soloing a Kheldian will do it. But if you're used to breezing through content on Invincible on a scrapper, you'll be in for a surprise, at least at the lower levels.
And no matter what, set up all the keybinds mentioned in the guides. You MUST rebind TAB to pick out Voids/Quants first, and have binds to shift forms and change trays on the fly. In 4+ years of play the only keybind I ever used was a teleport bind, but I find they're essential on Kheldians.
My suggestion is to roll up one of each and see how they play for you. They mature rather late and are slot-starved forever, so don't give up on them in the early levels.
Virtue:
Rockburner, Fire/Stone Tanker (50)
Doc Disaster, Earth/Storm Controller (44)
Icewall, Inv/Ice Tanker (42)
Wings, MA/Inv Scrapper (42)
Shockblast, Elec/Elec Blaster (36)
..and many others.
Welcome Normandy. Listen to the mates here they offer solid advice and will be here your entire way to 50. Cheers.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Peacebringers (PB) are Scrankfenders (Scrapper/Tanker/Defender)
Warshades (WS) are Trollkers (Controller/Stalker) beasts who can teleport themselves
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I like to think of them as conscrablastankfenders, myself.
(I jest though; I think the one thing PBs and WS are not is Defenders).
In short, you're a jack of all trades that exists to fill in gaps in a team. If the team needs a tank, you can go into Dwarf form and tank. If the team has plenty of tanks and needs damage, you can go into Nova form and lay down AoEs. If the team is fairly balanced, or has a lack of Defenders and Controllers, you can use the utility powers from your Human form. And most exciting of all, you can shift roles from moment to moment, taking over tanking when needed, returning to blast form when not, and in general adapting to the fight as it happens in real time. 
Honestly, I've found some of the most fun things about Kheldians are their unique features. Being totally free to fly all the time in Nova form, with no concern for End cost or being knocked out of the sky, is a lot more fun and a lot easier than I thought it'd be, even in cave maps. And although you can get -Fly effects on you, you are somewhat resistant, and you just basically "bump" to the ground for a few moments, you still look like you're flying.
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And most exciting of all, you can shift roles from moment to moment
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And this is really what we need to revitalize the AT. Queueable detoggles, and drastically faster shapeshifts (I'm thinking 0.5s or less).
If you decide to go dual PB, it works great. My girlfriend and I are both tri-formers, and we swap back and forth a lot. I'll be dwarf/human, and she'll be in nova/human, and then we'll switch it up. The orange numbers coming off of our enemies are sexy.
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And most exciting of all, you can shift roles from moment to moment
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And this is really what we need to revitalize the AT. Queueable detoggles, and drastically faster shapeshifts (I'm thinking 0.5s or less).
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Not that I'd mind faster shape-shifting, but queueable detoggles will ruin my current gameplay tactics for sure, and in my opinion, the Devs simply need to synchronize the gototray command with the powertoggleoff command so that if a detoggle command will not execute, neither will the gototray command. I think that queueable detoggles as a gameplay mechanism is too complex to add for the little benefit the game/community will have from it.
For myself, I'd rather see the Nova/Dwarf forms come into their own with more gameplay options added to them actually either passively or actively.
Perhaps a team-affecting regen/recover aura that is automatically emitted around White Dwarves... and a team-affecting damage-resist aura emitted around Black Dwarves.
I would also love to see Kheldian Power pools for example, a mixture of powers that both Kheldian ATs are allowed to get once they're Lv41 and these powers are executable with any of the forms. That would also make me very happy.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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And this is really what we need to revitalize the AT. Queueable detoggles
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I've gotta go with Xen on this one. I'm not sure if the required effort would produce the benefits we all think it would.
The biggest problem with the current state of detoggling forms comes from the issue with the goto_tray command. In the heat of combat it's very easy to not notice that your powers tray has shifted even though you haven't. That leads to a moment of confusion that can reduce your effectiveness and even get you killed as you try to take actions that are no longer available to you.
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And drastically faster shapeshifts (I'm thinking 0.5s or less).
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I would love this. I'm sure the length of the animation times is there as a balancing mechanism but reducing the time to 1.5s or something close wouldn't decimate anything...except enemies 
one thing you should learn is key binds and macros they helped me a lot with my warshade the key binds are good for switching forms on the fly
One by one bunny's steal my common sense for banana's on Ebay.
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one thing you should learn is key binds and macros they helped me a lot with my warshade the key binds are good for switching forms on the fly
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Good? Try required! At the very least you need to have tray switching bound close at hand. preferably bound so it switches trays as you transform.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
yup thats the key that made my kheldian playing very enjoyable so when i hit say key L it says ( this is a warshade mind you) "darkness bind me" and ill change to nova and my tray will switch to tray 3 while key k might be for the other. if any of that made sense i have done my job if not oh well...
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One by one bunny's steal my common sense for banana's on Ebay.
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one thing you should learn is key binds and macros they helped me a lot with my warshade the key binds are good for switching forms on the fly
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Good? Try required! At the very least you need to have tray switching bound close at hand. preferably bound so it switches trays as you transform.
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Hmmmm...I'm prefer human only so it's never been an issue for me, but binds and macros (which require you go searching for esoteric code snippits) being *required* to play an indicates something's not quite right.
Why is binding required for tray switching? I do have a tri-former on a 2nd build. All Nova and Dwarf powers (10 in all) are on Tray 1, with the next two trays containing all the rest of the commonly used stuff. Things I use rarely and/or never in a fight (oro. portal, mission or Pocket D ports...) I keep in the 4th or 5th tray. Slide tray, click power, then slide back. Simple. Why are binds so needed?
Speed of access. You need quick and fast access to your powers, and they won't all fit in the first two power trays. Sure, you can set things up that way, but binds make things MUCH easier on a tri-form. Hitting one key to change forms and access powers is much faster than sliding a tray, clicking on the power, sliding back, all in the middle of combat.
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one thing you should learn is key binds and macros they helped me a lot with my warshade the key binds are good for switching forms on the fly
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Good? Try required! At the very least you need to have tray switching bound close at hand. preferably bound so it switches trays as you transform.
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Hmmmm...I'm prefer human only so it's never been an issue for me, but binds and macros (which require you go searching for esoteric code snippits) being *required* to play an indicates something's not quite right.
Why is binding required for tray switching? I do have a tri-former on a 2nd build. All Nova and Dwarf powers (10 in all) are on Tray 1, with the next two trays containing all the rest of the commonly used stuff. Things I use rarely and/or never in a fight (oro. portal, mission or Pocket D ports...) I keep in the 4th or 5th tray. Slide tray, click power, then slide back. Simple. Why are binds so needed?
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It's also easier then hitting let's say numpad Enter to ransform to nova form, then having to hit ] to switch power tray to the one with your nova attacks. You can play a tri or bi form keld without binds and macros, but to be truly great at on the fly role switching you should use binds and macros.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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No problem, and have fun with your Kheldians
By the way, a PB will be quite the protector, but a duo of PB+WS doesn't need to focus on protecting either Kheldian if they are coordinated in their attacks and strategies.
Another point worth mentioning though, is that since Kheldians gain great buffs from their team-mates, a Kheldian running with an 8-man team with varied AT's would be more powerful than a Kheldian running with an 8-Kheldian team because Kheldians only grant a slow-resist bonus to each other while other AT's grant more varied and useful bonuses. Essentially, be prepared to take things slow when duoing with your friend on your Kheldian characters.
If you guys want an All-Kheldian SG to run with, we're on Infinity, and we're always looking for more.
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heh...maybe i can make another Ws there! *smiles* how can one get in contact with you?
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one thing you should learn is key binds and macros they helped me a lot with my warshade the key binds are good for switching forms on the fly
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Good? Try required! At the very least you need to have tray switching bound close at hand. preferably bound so it switches trays as you transform.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm...I'm prefer human only so it's never been an issue for me, but binds and macros (which require you go searching for esoteric code snippits) being *required* to play an indicates something's not quite right.
Why is binding required for tray switching? I do have a tri-former on a 2nd build. All Nova and Dwarf powers (10 in all) are on Tray 1, with the next two trays containing all the rest of the commonly used stuff. Things I use rarely and/or never in a fight (oro. portal, mission or Pocket D ports...) I keep in the 4th or 5th tray. Slide tray, click power, then slide back. Simple. Why are binds so needed?
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It's also easier then hitting let's say numpad Enter to ransform to nova form, then having to hit ] to switch power tray to the one with your nova attacks. You can play a tri or bi form keld without binds and macros, but to be truly great at on the fly role switching you should use binds and macros.
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I can accept binds making it *easier*, but the poster I responded to said *required*, and he's not the first Kheldian player I've heard say that. Now that usage may be a bit of hyperbole, or maybe some Kheld players really think you must have binds to be truly effective.
IMO, you should be able to play *any* AT, even Tri-form Khelds, without using binds or macros and be effective. Binds and Macros, at most, should be a Quality of Life type of thing. Like IOs - they make things easier, but require more work to setup and are never required.
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IMO, you should be able to play *any* AT, even Tri-form Khelds, without using binds or macros and be effective. Binds and Macros, at most, should be a Quality of Life type of thing. Like IOs - they make things easier, but require more work to setup and are never required.
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I was the one who said their practically required. I was playing my WS without then initially. And then I found out that playing a tri-form WS without using binds and macros makes an already hard character even harder. I can easily imagine that most of the people who come here claiming kelds suck tried to play a multi-form keld without using binds/macros.
I take it then that you don't like masterminds then? To be a skilled mastermind you do have to use binds and macros.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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...If you guys want an All-Kheldian SG to run with, we're on Infinity, and we're always looking for more.
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heh...maybe i can make another Ws there! *smiles* how can one get in contact with you?
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The SG is called Umbra Illuminati and any of its members can invite you. Just make a Kheldian on Infinity and look us up.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I'm a little confused as to what exactly IS the difference between a peacebringer and a warshade, and I'm at a loss for what the human form can do that the transformed shapes can't do.
Me and my friend are trying to hit 50 to each make one because they seem fun/versitile/complex. But I just sort of want a "Condensed" explaination to see which is different.