Has any one notice all the controllers lately?
By
apple_eater,
Posted on: 2009-06-04 20:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Back in 2004 it was Fire/Rad that was all the rage. Those were all over the place. Firekins were around for sure, but it was another year before they got away from being a secret (in the Fight Club sense), and after Containment came around the population exploded. Frankly, even if I had a neato concept for one I wouldn't roll it, they're so pathetically common. (I have a Fire/Storm, started in late '04, whose secondary was chosen just to be different. And Storm is surprisingly...but here I must invoke Fight Club again.)
Controllers are a wonderful AT. Fragile yet stupid-powerful. It doesn't surprise me that they're getting their due respect.
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They were always there, but now they are all gathered in atlas.
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In case anyone missed this and is still wondering.
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You do mean Contankers right?
Because like.. Contankers can do everything.
They are true Tank Mages.
Perfection at every corner.
Ya they can even herd... gather. group up. pull. pull out of LOS...
They dont even need a team, they can be awesome all by themselves. OR they can team up and make you wish you were on your controller.
8 controller teams can MASH THROUGH EVERYTHING. There is no TF in this game an 8 troller team cant smash through. There is no TRIAL in this game a bunch of trollers cant handle.
If you did not know this to be fact, allow me to laugh at you now.
haha
haha
haha
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Hay any one spot an ego here??? 
EDIT: Opps forgot to add that my brute can take on mobs of a 8 team alone with no problem so i guess "Contankers" are not the only AT that can do that 
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You do mean Contankers right?
Because like.. Contankers can do everything.
They are true Tank Mages.
Perfection at every corner.
Ya they can even herd... gather. group up. pull. pull out of LOS...
They dont even need a team, they can be awesome all by themselves. OR they can team up and make you wish you were on your controller.
8 controller teams can MASH THROUGH EVERYTHING. There is no TF in this game an 8 troller team cant smash through. There is no TRIAL in this game a bunch of trollers cant handle.
If you did not know this to be fact, allow me to laugh at you now.
haha
haha
haha
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Hay any one spot an ego here???
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not me, i play 3 purped out firkins at once, im not egotic, i m shizoid^^
+No wonder the enemies don't run as of late..
And no I don't, mainly because I'm more of a Villain sider at best.
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You do mean Contankers right?
Because like.. Contankers can do everything.
They are true Tank Mages.
Perfection at every corner.
Ya they can even herd... gather. group up. pull. pull out of LOS...
They dont even need a team, they can be awesome all by themselves. OR they can team up and make you wish you were on your controller.
8 controller teams can MASH THROUGH EVERYTHING. There is no TF in this game an 8 troller team cant smash through. There is no TRIAL in this game a bunch of trollers cant handle.
If you did not know this to be fact, allow me to laugh at you now.
haha
haha
haha
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Hay any one spot an ego here???
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not me, i play 3 purped out firkins at once, im not egotic, i m shizoid^^
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More like Ergotic. Still, it's easier to be rich and successful when you have the right substances to enable your rich fantasy lives. 
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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MA has been behind many controllers gaining levels since for farming mishes its always nice to have trollers on hand. I have seen a huge increase in trollers since MA has been released.
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Well, three new controllers are out there due to MA, over here at least; there is no way I would go through the Endurance-hell of trying to level them up solo through those early levels.
They're pretty awesome. But over here, one 'troller enters the MA at level 2 or so, and one 'troller leaves after a while, at least level 14. At that point I have travel, I have A FEW slots and I have tickets to put DOs in the slots. OK, now I can actually do something.
....'cause you know, I'd rather face the wheel for real, than level such end-hogs solo. Awesome end-hogs true, but I am not that keen on delayed gratification. And even at 14, I got a long ways to go before godhood
Beyond Thunderdome... or not:
Bad
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You do mean Contankers right?
Because like.. Contankers can do everything.
They are true Tank Mages.
Perfection at every corner.
Ya they can even herd... gather. group up. pull. pull out of LOS...
They dont even need a team, they can be awesome all by themselves. OR they can team up and make you wish you were on your controller.
8 controller teams can MASH THROUGH EVERYTHING. There is no TF in this game an 8 troller team cant smash through. There is no TRIAL in this game a bunch of trollers cant handle.
If you did not know this to be fact, allow me to laugh at you now.
haha
haha
haha
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Hay any one spot an ego here???
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not me, i play 3 purped out firkins at once, im not egotic, i m shizoid^^
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More like Ergotic. Still, it's easier to be rich and successful when you have the right substances to enable your rich fantasy lives.
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that waz fun
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Hay any one spot an ego here???
EDIT: Opps forgot to add that my brute can take on mobs of a 8 team alone with no problem so i guess "Contankers" are not the only AT that can do that
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My phantom army can take on an infinite amount of enemies.
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I was on heroes today and i looked around and all i could find were controllers and controllers then there was some blasters and tankers. Is this just a freak thing that happened or is that really how it is now? 
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Thats how its always been. THe reason for this, of course, is that a sufficient quantity of controllers renders alll other architypes superfluous.
Well, that may be hyperbole, but seriously folks, for a very, very long time controllers ahve been the most heavily played class at max level.
On an unrelated noite, Rich fantasy Lives is now my new favorite song.
i have no problem with controllers...
i have a problem with 50% of the controller population being Fire/Kin... I wish i could get an explanation to why the devs aren't doing something about it (or why theres nothing you can do about it since theres something strangely too powerful about this combination)
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
You could if you ahd bothered to check the controller boards where the issue has been discussed numberous times.
TO make it short and simple, the probem is twofold:
1) While fire/kinetic is impressive as all get out when it comes to taking big groups of drasticly bellow average enemies like all-lieuitenant freakshow spawns, in the highly predictable envirnment of a farm mission, and burning them down to the ground in 10 seconds or less its much less good at anything else. It suffers for its comparatively thin hard control, and it has, more importnatly, a complete LACK of the defensive debuffs and soft control that msot controllers relly upon to one extent or another. It is the highest damaging controller build, but also the weekest at actual control. The fact that this is a trade-off that many are willing to make does not change that.
Second and perhaps more importantly, chaning either fire conrl or kinetics in such as way as to nerf the fire/kinerics combination would also nerf every other controller, dominator, defender, or corrupter who used either of those powersets. Go explain to the ice/kinetics controller who can barely solo on invincible, or the fire/kinetics corrupter who might as well toss a coin to see if he kills his enemies befor ethe agro he generates kills him, and convince them that they're verpowered and deserve a nerf. This is compounded by the fact that farming is pretty easy - to make it appreciably harder you would ned a BIG nerf. Weve seen this before when FIre IMps were nerfed to always spawn at -1 to your level. This did not appreciably slow the average time in which a fire/kinetics farmer could run through a freak map, but it DID appreciably reduce their ability top survive and be of any use to the player or the team in a REAL fight.
I haz lvl 50 controllers! <3
50 Fire Kin - Love Hysteria
50 Ice Kin - Blue Candy
50 Earth Kin - Natural Stimulant
50 Illusion Emp - Ghostbusting Gabby
50 Plant Rad - Atomica Tangles
50 Fire Bubble - Personal Euphoria
>.> I have atleast 1 of everything else too tho
But Contankers are the bestest... They can do it all with or without you <3 /evil laugh
Someones going rouge
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Someones going rouge
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clap clap clap
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post Fernandez said about stuff not concerning dominators... stupid
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look princess, before you start becoming a smarty-pants mabye you need to consider that mabye soloing invincible isnt normal for the average player.
yes, im angry, dont up standards for the average player saying that they solo invincible.
something is wrong, you know it. Don't pretend your logic and your brainstorm from the controller boards is 100% accurate
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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post Fernandez said about stuff not concerning dominators... stupid
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Im not certain what youre trying to say. If yuo're upset because you believe I do not consider the impact of a potential nerf on dominators then you're mistaken - as I said, I consider the the impact of such changes on not only other controler builds that include either fire control or kinetrics, but every other class, including dominators, that has one, to be a main problem with the idea. If you're upset with me because you believe its foolish somehow to consider the impact of a change to a control powerset on dominators (I.E. the other crowd control class in the game) then... welll, I suppose you're entiteld to your opinions, but I, and most other people who play dominators, would respectfuly disagree.
Also, although I can see this statement quoted in Vel_Overlord's post (and copy it from there) I cant see the post that originally has it. I dont know why, since I make it a point never to /ignore other forumites, no matter how much I may occasionally wish to.
Also, whomever you are, you mispelled my name. The spanish with a Z - the portugease is with an S. In some parts of the world such a mistake would be enough for a fistfight!
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post Fernandez said about stuff not concerning dominators... stupid
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look princess, before you start becoming a smarty-pants mabye you need to consider that mabye soloing invincible isnt normal for the average player.
yes, im angry, dont up standards for the average player saying that they solo invincible.
something is wrong, you know it. Don't pretend your logic and your brainstorm from the controller boards is 100% accurate
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Im not certain if you're talking to me, or the person I quoted, but I know I certainly never said anything of the kind. Personally, I have very high standards for character performance - ones that go well beyond soloing invincible missions - but I recognize that these are not standard, and that breezing through +2/+3 mobs is not a requirem,ent for every build of every class - especially not a crowd control/support class. Soloing missions on the easiest difficulty, however, is something all character SHOULD be able to do, and any nerf to fire or kinetics will push other builds including them, that much closer to being unable to do that.
Ultimately, its a question of who you're balancing for. FIre/Keintics is an extreme outlier. There will always be some builds more powerful in a certain area than others, and if you try to balance based on them, then you make all other, more average builds, suddenly bellow average. Nerfing FIre or Kinetics because of fire/kin controllers is equivalent to BUFFING them because your fire/energy dominator, or ice/kinetics controller is under-powered. Both are extreme outliers, just in different directions.
I should also point out that if you, theoretically, completely removed those sets from the game, then people would simply switch to whatever the second-most-efficient farming build is in order to farm. The prevelance of a build that excels in any particular area is ussually an indicator that a lot of people want to be good at that area. Nerfing Fire Control, and/or kinetics will not make farming go away, regardless of whether you think it should or not, it will just make fire/kinetics controllers less good at it... and also less good at everything else.
Also, while no one is infallible, the people on the controller boards are generally the ones with the most experience with,a nd theoretical knowledge of controller issues, and they ahve spent the most time of any sub-community going over, and over, and over these problems. This problem, in particular, has been the subject of endless discussion for years. When those things are true, and the overwhelming majority of discussions lead to the same conclusions, it a reasonably good indication that those conclusions are probably valid.
I am also inclined to ask if you have ever actaully played a fire/kinetics controller yourself? Experiencing how a they perform outside of a farm mission first-hand might help give you some insight into the situation.
First Firnandes i am sorry i was so harsh earlier, please forgive me as I must not forget that there are people that want their hero to be the best that it can be just as you said that you cannot forget the average player.
Second as for playing a fire/kin it is as strong outside a farm as it is inside. The way you present them at the end of your statement suggests that you feel that they are inferior to other controllers outside farm missions. That is simply untrue. Infact due to their better-than-average damage and the ability to buff others makes them prime candidates for teams (farms or not). They have a reputation for being a "controller-that-buffs-and-deals-damage." while there is nothing wrong with being unique and having a unique roll in a group. It creates a state of mind that all other controllers need to be held to this standard.
Due to the huge population of fire/kin controllers, other controllers have to live by the fire/kin standard which isnt always possible, and is unfair to the lowly ice/TA controller (which is amazing at doing invincible solo, although ive only seen one hehe)or other controller combinations that don't do the amount of damage the Fire/Kin can do but offer their own unique buffs and styles to a team.
Another point is that fire/kin controllers make kin/-- defenders and --/kin corruptors (during the times they can team with fire/kin controllers) almost obsolete in some player's eyes. While it isn't spoken, kin defenders cant compete with a fire/kin controller in a team. If you had the option to choose a fire/kin controller or a kin/-- defender, who would you pick? Don't beat around the bush saying things like "factor in skill, etc, etc". We're assuming this is a PuG in a vacuum. Fire/Kin controllers have created a void in the amount of kins you see in defenders and corruptors (though, not as much due to corruptors being villains).
Yes, the second best would come in line if fire/kin was some how reduced in power (or whatever scenario we use to quell the numbers). Yes, there will always be a "better combination" but other ATs don't seem to have this poblem of 1 specific combination completely dominating the census. Yes Willpower and Stone tanks are generally better at soaking damage than other sets but they don't seem to have a problem with huge numbers of them. Spines/Dark (or fire) scrappers are popular but agian they dont seem to be raising the standards for other scrapper combinations.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
yikes to much words for a fight just start punching
EDIT: I'm sorry for making this thread didn't know it was such a touchy topic
I guess there is no reason to play a Defender anymore since a Controller can do everything a Defender can do plus control. 
Controllers are awesome I guess.. unless you liked to play Defenders...
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I guess there is no reason to play a Defender anymore since a Controller can do everything a Defender can do plus control.
Controllers are awesome I guess.. unless you liked to play Defenders...
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Not true at all. defenders are still really nice and still play there part and they can be better at different things like AV soloing and other stuff unlike most trollers.
Illusion/Rad controllers are the best AV soloers.
i havent heard of many defenders soloing AVs although it is perfectly possible.
Controllers cant easily infact solo AVs, if not easier than Defenders, but that is a different topic.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
I made a Fire/Kin villain-side once. It didn't get invited to teams like I'd hoped. (-: