Has any one notice all the controllers lately?
By
apple_eater,
Posted on: 2009-06-04 20:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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First Firnandes i am sorry i was so harsh earlier, please forgive me as I must not forget that there are people that want their hero to be the best that it can be just as you said that you cannot forget the average player.
Second as for playing a fire/kin it is as strong outside a farm as it is inside. The way you present them at the end of your statement suggests that you feel that they are inferior to other controllers outside farm missions. That is simply untrue. Infact due to their better-than-average damage and the ability to buff others makes them prime candidates for teams (farms or not). They have a reputation for being a "controller-that-buffs-and-deals-damage." while there is nothing wrong with being unique and having a unique roll in a group. It creates a state of mind that all other controllers need to be held to this standard.
Due to the huge population of fire/kin controllers, other controllers have to live by the fire/kin standard which isnt always possible, and is unfair to the lowly ice/TA controller (which is amazing at doing invincible solo, although ive only seen one hehe)or other controller combinations that don't do the amount of damage the Fire/Kin can do but offer their own unique buffs and styles to a team.
Another point is that fire/kin controllers make kin/-- defenders and --/kin corruptors (during the times they can team with fire/kin controllers) almost obsolete in some player's eyes. While it isn't spoken, kin defenders cant compete with a fire/kin controller in a team. If you had the option to choose a fire/kin controller or a kin/-- defender, who would you pick? Don't beat around the bush saying things like "factor in skill, etc, etc". We're assuming this is a PuG in a vacuum. Fire/Kin controllers have created a void in the amount of kins you see in defenders and corruptors (though, not as much due to corruptors being villains).
Yes, the second best would come in line if fire/kin was some how reduced in power (or whatever scenario we use to quell the numbers). Yes, there will always be a "better combination" but other ATs don't seem to have this poblem of 1 specific combination completely dominating the census. Yes Willpower and Stone tanks are generally better at soaking damage than other sets but they don't seem to have a problem with huge numbers of them. Spines/Dark (or fire) scrappers are popular but agian they dont seem to be raising the standards for other scrapper combinations.
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Well, I concede that you're half right. Fire/Kinetics is a high end build, no doubt, but having played both them and other high end builds on a more or less unlimited budget, i can testify first hand that they are not the best at everything. If they were, I would be playing Fire/Kin and not Ill/Rad.
If I made it seems as though any othre controller can out-perform them outside fo a farm, then I appologize, because you're right, thats simply not true. TO be more specific, and therefor, more accurate, other high end contorller builds out-perform them outside of spawns (and many less optimal builds can compete with them, though ussually not for offense). If you feel that the disparity between low and high end builds is too high, then I respect your opinion, but that would not be a problem unique to fire/kinetics- fire/kinetics would simply be the most prominant example of a build with excellent synergy and a high level of general performance.
It is true that they are highly demanded by teams, however, I would argue that this ha smore to do with teams under-valuing other secondary sets and over-valuing kinetics, rather than actual differences in performance.
Of course, whether such bias is legitimate or not is almost besides the point. So long as the perception exists its the same difference. And you are right - the profusion of players who have teamed with fire/kinetics and watched them solo 3-dozen freaks at once does a disservice to other controller builds trying to compete for spots on teams. I am generally unsympathetic to people whining about not being able to find teams, because I have found it is unbelievably easy, even on low population servers, to simply start your own, but I recognize that it does make life much easier, or at least more conveniant, to be the crack dealer (kinetics) the healx0r (Empathy), or the AV-killer (radiation) and have all the cool kids begging you to be in their end-game clubs - and that nowhere is this social advantage more obvious than with fire/kinetics. THis is a legitimate complaint on the part of other controllers. ONce again, however, we are left with the quesiton of how to fix it without unfairly and unbalancing affecting all other builds that use those sets.
As for defenders, I agree that /kinetics controllers obviate the need for kinetics/*anything defenders. However, I would argue that this is a symptom of the more general truth that all well-built controllers obviate the need for ANY defender with the same secondary - that defenders are strictly inferior to controllers at the level cap. There are certain exceptions to thise rule, and it is much less true before epic level, but seterus paribus (as we say in economics), I would gladly kick a defender from my ITF team to take a controller in his place. This is not a problem with fire/kinetics people overpowered; it is a problem with defenders being underpowered. It is one that has existed for a very long time. It is not one to which I foresee a solution other than to either massivley nerf contorller damage (which would have the disadvantage of making it impossible to solo with them), or to massivley buff defender damage (which would essentially just mean that instead of controllers obviating the need for defenders, defenders would obviate the need for blasters).
The reasons why other optimal builds for other architeypoes do not dominate the demographics as much is partly becuase their superior performance is often less obvious and dramatic, but more importantly, becuase those builds are not optimal farm builds. If I were ALREADY GOING to roll a tank, then I might roll a stone or willpower tnak because I know its better than the alternatives. Fire/Kinetics, however leads people to play controllers BECAUSE they want to use it to farm. IF they were nerfed to the point where some other farm build from another class were more optimal, then that architype would see a similar demographic skew as people re-rolled to the new top farmer. Most fire/kinetic farmers do not belong to people who already decided to play a controller and chose fire/kin because it was the best available option for what they wanted to do within the contraint of that class - they play it because they already decided what they wanted to do before they choose an architype and the fact that it simply ahppened to be a controller build was beside the point.
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I guess there is no reason to play a Defender anymore since a Controller can do everything a Defender can do plus control. 
Controllers are awesome I guess.. unless you liked to play Defenders... 
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Exactly.
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Illusion/Rad controllers are the best AV soloers.
i havent heard of many defenders soloing AVs although it is perfectly possible.
Controllers cant easily infact solo AVs, if not easier than Defenders, but that is a different topic.
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Once again, exactly.
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Hay any one spot an ego here??? 
EDIT: Opps forgot to add that my brute can take on mobs of a 8 team alone with no problem so i guess "Contankers" are not the only AT that can do that
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My phantom army can take on an infinite amount of enemies.
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When they can take on the Hamidon I'll be satisfied.
Stupidest thread the past 24 hours.
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Hay any one spot an ego here???
EDIT: Opps forgot to add that my brute can take on mobs of a 8 team alone with no problem so i guess "Contankers" are not the only AT that can do that
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My phantom army can take on an infinite amount of enemies.
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When they can take on the Hamidon I'll be satisfied.
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Never did the old hamidon raids, did you? Ahh for the good old days when illusionists were THE absoluetley essential component of any raid. Alas, the wheal turns, the developers redesigned the raid, including the hamidon's unique decoy-harming damage, and now we're relegated to begging a place on a ranged assault team with the rest of the plebs.
You drasticaly under-estimate the stupidity of some threads. Also, this one is more than 24 hours old.
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Vel_Overload wrote:
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i have no problem with controllers...
i have a problem with 50% of the controller population being Fire/Kin...
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I look at it this way... when people see my non-fire/kin controllers, those people know mine aren't FotM builds. Because they're not.
--NT
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Fire/Kin isnt FotM though.. its FotCOH
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Hay any one spot an ego here???
EDIT: Opps forgot to add that my brute can take on mobs of a 8 team alone with no problem so i guess "Contankers" are not the only AT that can do that
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My phantom army can take on an infinite amount of enemies.
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When they can take on the Hamidon I'll be satisfied.
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Never did the old hamidon raids, did you? Ahh for the good old days when illusionists were THE absoluetley essential component of any raid. Alas, the wheal turns, the developers redesigned the raid, including the hamidon's unique decoy-harming damage, and now we're relegated to begging a place on a ranged assault team with the rest of the plebs.
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Missed the fact I meant the current Hamidon.
Vel_Overload wrote:
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i have no problem with controllers...
i have a problem with 50% of the controller population being Fire/Kin...
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I look at it this way... when people see my non-fire/kin controllers, those people know mine aren't FotM builds. Because they're not.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville