Why is the Cryptic logo still around?
By
Catwhoorg,
Posted on: 2009-06-04 03:51 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand PS getting mad at it, but I don't understand ANY player getting mad. Not only is it a compliment to you as a player, but it is a free opportunity.
[/ QUOTE ]In addition to other problems with their tactic, Cryptic had (and has) people dying to get into the CO beta, and yet they tried poaching people from CoH that don't even have interest in CO, totally ignoring the people that actually want to play.
Hell, they still haven't accepted Repeat Offenders' guild application to the CO beta, and even Castle has publicly admitted the impact RO has had on this game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like I said, most of the people trying to get in aren't influencial. they may/may not meet the testing requirements for the beta, but they may fail to meet the marketing requirements at that particular time.
I'm sure they have their reasons for not accepting RO at this time. We are all just guessing as to what they are though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could understand Nissan getting mad if a Toyata rep came in to a Nissan dealer and did it, but there is no reason for me the customer to feel anything other than excited.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would worry at a company that is so oblivious as to do that.
Now, if they are camped outside the lot, that's another thing entirely.
It's just rather bad taste.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't, we are bombarded with aggressive advertising every day.
In this case it was no more intrusive than RMT's. If a 2 second nothx is getting people so riled up, then I'm not sure what to think.
I never said it wasn't in bad taste. Most marketing is lol. Goes with the territory.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't misunderstand at all, you do. They went after INFLUENCIAL people in their exact target market. The people beating down their door are just people, groupies if you will. They want people that have the ability to bring as many people as possible once the game goes live.
Viral marketing.
It can backfire though, if the product sucks those same influencial people can influence a lot of people.
Just so it's clear, you are upset because you were not offered a beta despite wanting one, while someone else was?
If that is the case you are not one of the people I'm talking about. People get upset all the time when they aren't picked first for dodgeball.
[/ QUOTE ]
You basically just said what I said in a different way, so how am I misunderstanding? We're not talking about me, and nowhere did I mention my status in regards to that game. For all you know, I'm in the beta. That doesn't mean I still can't be disgusted about how they are treating prospective potential subscribers.
Deciding who is influential and who isn't based on... well, whatever the hell they used this game to base it on is ridiculous in itself. Sure you can do it, but that doesn't make it intelligent. Your explanation of it displays that pretty clearly.
[ QUOTE ]
So they can have their name attached to a published game?
[/ QUOTE ]
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't misunderstand at all, you do. They went after INFLUENCIAL people in their exact target market. The people beating down their door are just people, groupies if you will. They want people that have the ability to bring as many people as possible once the game goes live.
Viral marketing.
It can backfire though, if the product sucks those same influencial people can influence a lot of people.
Just so it's clear, you are upset because you were not offered a beta despite wanting one, while someone else was?
If that is the case you are not one of the people I'm talking about. People get upset all the time when they aren't picked first for dodgeball.
[/ QUOTE ]
You basically just said what I said in a different way, so how am I misunderstanding? We're not talking about me, and nowhere did I mention my status in regards to that game. For all you know, I'm in the beta. That doesn't mean I still can't be disgusted about how they are treating prospective potential subscribers.
Deciding who is influential and who isn't based on... well, whatever the hell they used this game to base it on is ridiculous in itself. Sure you can do it, but that doesn't make it intelligent. Your explanation of it displays that pretty clearly.
[/ QUOTE ]
If we are basically saying the same thing and I more or less rephrased my original post then I guess neither of us are misunderstanding. At which point I'll just resort to the low road and say - you started it 
Sorry, you said "people like me" I figured people like you are you.
There are 4 possibilities:
-you are a guild leader and were picked
-you are a guild leader and were not picked
-you are a 'nobody' in the lineup waiting to get in the club
-you are a 'somebody' in the lineup waiting to get in the club
I don't care which one you are, but being "distgusted" is very immature. Celebrity (or in this case, being a person of influence in their eyes) brings certain advantages and disadvantages.
If you are still waiting in line to get into the party and you are pissed cause others got bumped ahead of you then I'm sorry.
If you were picked and got offended I'm sorry
If you are a leader and didn't get picked I'm sorry
You sound as petty as the people that cry when they don't get in beta here.
From my understanding they targetted a number of people that were guild leaders, or otherwise have meaningful influence over a fair number of people. They are not omnipotent and missed some good candidates and probably picked some bad ones. I wouldn't call that ridiculous. I would call it intelligent, though we obviously differ on what we feel constitutes intelligence.
[ QUOTE ]
You misunderstand. The reason it made people like me upset is because they provided beta access to people in another game, who in some cases weren't even following champions online or had any intention to do so. Meanwhile, beta is still closed for people to people who had been eagerly following the game and been signed up and waiting, and in many cases, still are as I type this.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't see that as a problem. It's a closed beta. People that feel insulted somehow that they don't get in one need to get over their entitlement issues.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You misunderstand. The reason it made people like me upset is because they provided beta access to people in another game, who in some cases weren't even following champions online or had any intention to do so. Meanwhile, beta is still closed for people to people who had been eagerly following the game and been signed up and waiting, and in many cases, still are as I type this.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't see that as a problem. It's a closed beta. People that feel insulted somehow that they don't get in one need to get over their entitlement issues.
[/ QUOTE ]There's a distinct difference between not getting in a closed beta you want to be in, and getting passed over for someone who had no interest in the first place. The former is being unlucky (or having a bad reputation...). The latter is an insult.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't misunderstand at all, you do. They went after INFLUENCIAL people in their exact target market. The people beating down their door are just people, groupies if you will. They want people that have the ability to bring as many people as possible once the game goes live.
Viral marketing.
It can backfire though, if the product sucks those same influencial people can influence a lot of people.
Just so it's clear, you are upset because you were not offered a beta despite wanting one, while someone else was?
If that is the case you are not one of the people I'm talking about. People get upset all the time when they aren't picked first for dodgeball.
[/ QUOTE ]
You basically just said what I said in a different way, so how am I misunderstanding? We're not talking about me, and nowhere did I mention my status in regards to that game. For all you know, I'm in the beta. That doesn't mean I still can't be disgusted about how they are treating prospective potential subscribers.
Deciding who is influential and who isn't based on... well, whatever the hell they used this game to base it on is ridiculous in itself. Sure you can do it, but that doesn't make it intelligent. Your explanation of it displays that pretty clearly.
[/ QUOTE ]
If we are basically saying the same thing and I more or less rephrased my original post then I guess neither of us are misunderstanding. At which point I'll just resort to the low road and say - you started it
Sorry, you said "people like me" I figured people like you are you.
There are 4 possibilities:
-you are a guild leader and were picked
-you are a guild leader and were not picked
-you are a 'nobody' in the lineup waiting to get in the club
-you are a 'somebody' in the lineup waiting to get in the club
I don't care which one you are, but being "distgusted" is very immature. Celebrity (or in this case, being a person of influence in their eyes) brings certain advantages and disadvantages.
If you are still waiting in line to get into the party and you are pissed cause others got bumped ahead of you then I'm sorry.
If you were picked and got offended I'm sorry
If you are a leader and didn't get picked I'm sorry
You sound as petty as the people that cry when they don't get in beta here.
From my understanding they targetted a number of people that were guild leaders, or otherwise have meaningful influence over a fair number of people. They are not omnipotent and missed some good candidates and probably picked some bad ones. I wouldn't call that ridiculous. I would call it intelligent, though we obviously differ on what we feel constitutes intelligence.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, you're resorting to insulting me now? Telling me I sound petty and I'm immature? It's funny you can't see how ironic that is.
It's not a party, it's a beta test. You seem to be mistaken on the issues, so until you can post proving you understand the difference between a party and a beta test, your entire argument is worthless and fail.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not really bashing on a game so much as Jack Emmert's questionable ability to deliver a decent game.
[/ QUOTE ] If only he had done it before...
[/ QUOTE ]
not to dis what he's done... but from what I understand the CO dev staff (Emmert is not a dev over there, IIRC) isn't 100% professional in their public remarks about CoH/V. Which makes me wonder how good their work ethics are if their ethics are not 100%.
[/ QUOTE ] What comments about CoH/V were unprofessional?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You misunderstand. The reason it made people like me upset is because they provided beta access to people in another game, who in some cases weren't even following champions online or had any intention to do so. Meanwhile, beta is still closed for people to people who had been eagerly following the game and been signed up and waiting, and in many cases, still are as I type this.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't see that as a problem. It's a closed beta. People that feel insulted somehow that they don't get in one need to get over their entitlement issues.
[/ QUOTE ]There's a distinct difference between not getting in a closed beta you want to be in, and getting passed over for someone who had no interest in the first place. The former is being unlucky (or having a bad reputation...). The latter is an insult.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree. Closed beta isn't for fanboys to have fun. It's for improving the product. If a company feels that person A would do better than Person B, that is ok. The company didn't do something wrong. If somebody feels insulted by not getting picked, they should get over themselves.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You misunderstand. The reason it made people like me upset is because they provided beta access to people in another game, who in some cases weren't even following champions online or had any intention to do so. Meanwhile, beta is still closed for people to people who had been eagerly following the game and been signed up and waiting, and in many cases, still are as I type this.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't see that as a problem. It's a closed beta. People that feel insulted somehow that they don't get in one need to get over their entitlement issues.
[/ QUOTE ]There's a distinct difference between not getting in a closed beta you want to be in, and getting passed over for someone who had no interest in the first place. The former is being unlucky (or having a bad reputation...). The latter is an insult.
[/ QUOTE ] I disagree. Closed beta isn't for fanboys to have fun. It's for improving the product. If a company feels that person A would do better than Person B, that is ok. The company didn't do something wrong. If somebody feels insulted by not getting picked, they should get over themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]CO is not at a stage where they need focused testers who know how to fill out useful bug reports with detailed repo steps. The poaching of CoH community leaders was just that: poaching.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
[ QUOTE ]
CO is not at a stage where they need focused testers who know how to fill out useful bug reports with detailed repo steps.
[/ QUOTE ] Why would you say that? It is a beta product with plenty of bugs.
[ QUOTE ]
The poaching of CoH community leaders was just that: poaching.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't see a problem with that. Why wouldn't they want people like that to join their game? They asked, it is what any smart company would do.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't misunderstand at all, you do. They went after INFLUENCIAL people in their exact target market. The people beating down their door are just people, groupies if you will. They want people that have the ability to bring as many people as possible once the game goes live.
Viral marketing.
It can backfire though, if the product sucks those same influencial people can influence a lot of people.
Just so it's clear, you are upset because you were not offered a beta despite wanting one, while someone else was?
If that is the case you are not one of the people I'm talking about. People get upset all the time when they aren't picked first for dodgeball.
[/ QUOTE ]
You basically just said what I said in a different way, so how am I misunderstanding? We're not talking about me, and nowhere did I mention my status in regards to that game. For all you know, I'm in the beta. That doesn't mean I still can't be disgusted about how they are treating prospective potential subscribers.
Deciding who is influential and who isn't based on... well, whatever the hell they used this game to base it on is ridiculous in itself. Sure you can do it, but that doesn't make it intelligent. Your explanation of it displays that pretty clearly.
[/ QUOTE ]
If we are basically saying the same thing and I more or less rephrased my original post then I guess neither of us are misunderstanding. At which point I'll just resort to the low road and say - you started it
Sorry, you said "people like me" I figured people like you are you.
There are 4 possibilities:
-you are a guild leader and were picked
-you are a guild leader and were not picked
-you are a 'nobody' in the lineup waiting to get in the club
-you are a 'somebody' in the lineup waiting to get in the club
I don't care which one you are, but being "distgusted" is very immature. Celebrity (or in this case, being a person of influence in their eyes) brings certain advantages and disadvantages.
If you are still waiting in line to get into the party and you are pissed cause others got bumped ahead of you then I'm sorry.
If you were picked and got offended I'm sorry
If you are a leader and didn't get picked I'm sorry
You sound as petty as the people that cry when they don't get in beta here.
From my understanding they targetted a number of people that were guild leaders, or otherwise have meaningful influence over a fair number of people. They are not omnipotent and missed some good candidates and probably picked some bad ones. I wouldn't call that ridiculous. I would call it intelligent, though we obviously differ on what we feel constitutes intelligence.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, you're resorting to insulting me now? Telling me I sound petty and I'm immature? It's funny you can't see how ironic that is.
It's not a party, it's a beta test. You seem to be mistaken on the issues, so until you can post proving you understand the difference between a party and a beta test, your entire argument is worthless and fail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Muniklord nailed it better than I can. I'm sorry if I have upset you and I'm sorry if CO has upset you. I'm sure neither of us set out with that goal in mind.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The poaching of CoH community leaders was just that: poaching.
[/ QUOTE ] I don't see a problem with that. Why wouldn't they want people like that to join their game? They asked, it is what any smart company would do.
[/ QUOTE ]Vote trading is "smart", but that doesn't make it ethical.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. Closed beta isn't for fanboys to have fun. It's for improving the product. If a company feels that person A would do better than Person B, that is ok. The company didn't do something wrong. If somebody feels insulted by not getting picked, they should get over themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
It has nothing to do with feeling personally insulted, and apparently you twice missed the part where people who had no interest in the product were chosen over someone that does. If you think that's an okay practice by a company, well, okay, good for you. Obviously the company agrees with you, 'cause that's what went down. The point is whether you can understand why some people feel that practice is shady and unethical or not. The point is whether you can understand that some people feel that your past experience or "status" in a separate MMORPG should have nothing to do with a new MMORPG's beta testing.
It's not about if you agree, it's about whether you see the viewpoint or not.
[ QUOTE ]
Muniklord nailed it better than I can. I'm sorry if I have upset you and I'm sorry if CO has upset you. I'm sure neither of us set out with that goal in mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think anyone could have nailed it better than you did. I'm sorry you feel that someone pointing out irony in your insulting posts equates to them being upset over it, or giving two [censored] about what your opinion of them is in the first place. You should stop making so many assumptions about people you don't know.
Or don't, hell I don't care.
[ QUOTE ]
If somebody feels insulted by not getting picked, they should get over themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm insulted that I got picked over people that were much more interested in getting in. 
So, how does that work in your little scheme?
I see what they are saying, I just feel this:
[ QUOTE ]
The point is whether you can understand that some people feel that your past experience or "status" in a separate MMORPG should have nothing to do with a new MMORPG's beta testing.
[/ QUOTE ] Makes no sense. At all. CO and CoH are in the same sub-genre, they are going to be direct competition. If Cryptic was able to get any influential players to jump ship that would be a good thing for them. They might be able to bring others with them.
Besides, Cryptic already has their fanboys that are gonna play their game when it releases no matter what. Those aren't the people Cryptic needs to worry about right now, they have them.
edit: You need an avatar. Cool name though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If somebody feels insulted by not getting picked, they should get over themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm insulted that I got picked over people that were much more interested in getting in.
So, how does that work in your little scheme?
[/ QUOTE ] not on my radar.
[ QUOTE ]
Makes no sense. At all. CO and CoH are in the same sub-genre, they are going to be direct competition. If Cryptic was able to get any influential players to jump ship that would be a good thing for them. They might be able to bring others with them.
[/ QUOTE ]
How does it not make sense? At this point, you aren't looking for beta testers, you are picking out people who you think are going to get a lot of buddies to come over. That's not beta testing, that's a free tryout. When people sign up to a beta, they expected to be on equal ground from day one.
Being active, and helpful on the CO forums and earning your way into a beta spot from that day one is one thing. Being picked because you have a lot of friends or SGmates or whatever on a different game is not treating people equally.
And look where things are now? They got busted and many of those potential players who were patiently waiting are alienated and possibly turned their back on the game altogether. Not really a smooth move if you're REALLY picking said people because you think that will increase your playerbase. Bottom line, if there was nothing wrong with it they wouldn't have been so secretive about it and issued an apology when they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
[ QUOTE ]
Besides, Cryptic already has their fanboys that are gonna play their game when it releases no matter what. Those aren't the people Cryptic needs to worry about right now, they have them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, I'm sure there will be at least a few people like that but this is pure assumption and not any kind of factual information that you can base anything off of or use in any kind of persuasive argument.
[ QUOTE ]
Being picked because you have a lot of friends or SGmates or whatever on a different game is not treating people equally.
[/ QUOTE ] Why should they treat people equally? They should do what is in their best interest. You could argue that going in game(which is what I think they did) and recruiting is not the smartest move. I'll concede that point. But just going after the community leaders at all, there is nothing wrong or unethical about it. [ QUOTE ]
Bottom line, if there was nothing wrong with it they wouldn't have been so secretive about it and issued an apology when they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
[/ QUOTE ] The way they went about it wasn't smart, but the overall goal makes perfect sense to me.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I'm sure there will be at least a few people like that but this is pure assumption and not any kind of factual information that you can base anything off of or use in any kind of persuasive argument.
[/ QUOTE ] Sure, every company has their fanboys. When Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo make big announcements, they don't do it for their fans. Those people already belong to them. They don't need any extra marketing. Its all done for the customers they want.
[ QUOTE ]
Why should they treat people equally? They should do what is in their best interest.
[/ QUOTE ] See the part about the potential customers they alienated and lost after getting caught.
[ QUOTE ]
The way they went about it wasn't smart, but the overall goal makes perfect sense to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, see the part about the people pissed off and lost. Makes no sense to me. Just how many people are these supposed "community leaders," and I stress the quotes, going to be bringing over? I think the whole thing is ridiculous, personally. Population of a game is directly related to how good that game is, in my opinion, not by who's playing it.
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, every company has their fanboys. When Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo make big announcements, they don't do it for their fans. Those people already belong to them. They don't need any extra marketing. Its all done for the customers they want.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's... silly and like saying customer retention isn't a part of any business anywhere.
[ QUOTE ]
You could argue that going in game(which is what I think they did) and recruiting is not the smartest move.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, they recruited through PMs on the forums. These forums, owned by NCSoft, their senior competitor.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
[ QUOTE ]
Again, see the part about the people pissed off and lost. Makes no sense to me. Just how many people are these supposed "community leaders," and I stress the quotes, going to be bringing over? I think the whole thing is ridiculous, personally. Population of a game is directly related to how good that game is, in my opinion, not by who's playing it.
[/ QUOTE ] IMO, it's a mix of both. In general, people are dumb and follow the crowd. You get the right people to start doing something, and others will follow.
[ QUOTE ]
That's... silly and like saying customer retention isn't a part of any business anywhere.
[/ QUOTE ] I over simplified. Of course retention is important. But fanboys aren't going anywhere, that is why they are fanboys. A company doesn't have to worry much about them.
Your average person will leave for something better, so you do have to worry about them. But if you want to grow you gotta do stuff for potential customers.
Look at Sony and Microsoft at this years E3. Both companies announced motion capture technology for their platforms. Do you think that was done for their current customers? Not a chance. They already have them, and if they were gonna leave for the Wii, most of them would have done it already. Their new motion stuff is to grow their audience. They want a piece of Nintendo's pie.
[ QUOTE ]
I could understand Nissan getting mad if a Toyata rep came in to a Nissan dealer and did it, but there is no reason for me the customer to feel anything other than excited.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would worry at a company that is so oblivious as to do that.
Now, if they are camped outside the lot, that's another thing entirely.
It's just rather bad taste.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.