Enough recharge to make Dull Pain permanent is a very, very nice thing.
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Is there a soft cap, and am I even beginning to approach this, or should I stop pursuing +regen and instead try to gain a different kind of mitigation via sets?
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There isn't a regeneration soft cap. There's just a regeneration hard cap, which is so high (3000% for a level 50 Scrapper/Stalker) that you're never going to see it outside of lots of happy Empaths. You'll maybe manage 1500% with lots of +regen set bonuses and IH up. Either way, +regen isn't really going to do you much good. You're much better off going for +recharge first and positional +def after that. The basic idea is to get your click powers back faster and enough passive mitigation to not need them when they're down.
to cap Regen, duh. 
Well, that's probably never going to happen, but a full heal in under 30seconds and perma Dull Pain, anlong with a bit of Def/Res is about where you want to be.
Theres a few threads on the boards talking about this at the mo, and for pure regen builds a few can be found here
Recharge Reduction is your lord and master, then I tend to equally value +defense and +health.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Recharge Reduction is your lord and master, then I tend to equally value +defense and +health.
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+Hp has never been of particular interest to me for */regen. If you're packing +recharge, you should have perma-DP. If you're IOing yourself, you should already have gotten the 4 important accolades on that character (Task Force Commander, Atlas Medallion, Freedom Phalanx Reserve, and Portal Jockey). With perma-DP (if it's actually slotted for +heal, like it should be) and the +20% hp from the accolades, you should have 2378 hit points. That's only 31 hit points short of the cap. It's easy to get the +hp set bonuses needed purely tangentially, especially with the melee attack sets (ToD, CI, and Mako's all have enough +hp to only need 2 of the set bonuses to cap).
The only reasons to aim for +hp on a */regen are that you're not stacking enough +recharge to get perma-DP or are short slotting DP for less +heal. If you're not using Dull Pain quickly whenever it's up (re: whenever you get full benefit of the heal), I doubt that you're actually in a dangerous situation. Dull Pain should be an earlier priority use heal/regen than IH or Recon simply because it's got a lot of secondary survivability after its use which is easily made permanent.
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The only reasons to aim for +hp on a */regen are that you're not stacking enough +recharge to get perma-DP or are short slotting DP for less +heal.
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Or you use DP tactically as a heal + buff and not just as a buff.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I like defense and recharge, defense allows you to regenerate when they can't hit you and when they do hit you your powers recharge quick enough to handle the constant flow of damage.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I know super reflexes goes for the soft cap defenses and resistance sets go for soft capping resist, but what does regen look for to cap?
Right now I have a ton of regen set IOs and I've only seen my total regeneration with Fast Heal+Health+Integration at 2.71%/sec and it seems to be gaining slightly. Is there a soft cap, and am I even beginning to approach this, or should I stop pursuing +regen and instead try to gain a different kind of mitigation via sets?
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Well, if you had an unlimited budget you could potentially get to the point of having around 3.5% health back per second passively (around 850% regeneration) and 6.9% per second with Instant Healing on (1650%) but the general opinion seems to be to shoot for Recharge and defense bonuses first and then look at HPs (if not at the cap with DP) and Regen, accuracy and damage bonuses to round out the set.
Recharge insures that the click powers from the /Regen side are up as often as needed while also insuring that your attack chain is optimized by having the most damaging attacks available as often as possible. Regen excells for this type of build due to having both Dull Pain (which once permanently on helps to maximize your HPs) and Quick Recovery which helps to compensate for the Endurance needed to power long runs of High Damaging attacks.
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The only reasons to aim for +hp on a */regen are that you're not stacking enough +recharge to get perma-DP or are short slotting DP for less +heal.
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Or you use DP tactically as a heal + buff and not just as a buff.
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That's still a flawed argument. If you're running with Dull Pain and that much recharge, you're better off using Dull Pain as your primary heal (meaning used first), especially since you're going to be running with more hit points. I use DP "tactically", which simply implies that you've got sound reasoning behind the use criteria but you take to mean "only whenever you need the heal", but I maintain it permanently.
When people talk about using Dull Pain "tactically" that doesn't preclude keeping it up permanently, especially since it's not even remotely difficult to get a 15-20 seconds overlap in the recharge times. That's an entire Reconstruction recharge period. If you're not using perma-capable DP before Reconstruction, you're wasting it. You can use DP "tactically" and still keep it up permanently, especially if you're in a situation in which you need to control your use of */regen click resources, which only means that you're in a situation in which you'll take 1000 damage which needs to be healed in 20-30 seconds.
The point of this is that, if you're in a situation that actually calls for the type of build you're running with, you're going to be keeping Dull Pain permanent and still be using the heal optimally. +HP is largely pointless because, if you're actually using Dull Pain rather than "tactically" letting it sit around and only using it once every 5 minutes when you actually need the heal, the time period that the +hp from set bonuses isn't completely negated by the hp cap is so small as to be pointless in comparison to when it is up. You're better off aiming for other set bonuses completely. It would be like building a character with capped resistance and then giving him a slew of +res bonuses because, on occasion, he faces enemies with -res. For a vast majority of the time, it's pointless and only has a marginal effect when it is active. You'd be better off going with a different set bonus that is active at all times.
I've tried several things seeing that I prttey much respec my dark/regen every new issue just for kicks. I've found you can slot for recharge and def with no problems. You can also get your regen up to 800% before IH and have about 15 to 20% def to all all while having prema dull pain that will cap your HP while its up. This is without any purple sets. I'm sure if I put together a build with purples, I will most likely be able to get perma hasten as well.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Recharge Reduction is your lord and master, then I tend to equally value +defense and +health.
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No, no, see Foamy the Squirrel is our Lord and Master. Recharge Reduction is the abusive lover who continuously beats you for more money, and never quite gives enough back to satisfy you.
Ah! No, baby, I love you, I do! I swear, I'm coming back I just- Augh! No, baby. I'm just getting influence from some Task Forces! Really! Ow! No, I'm not cheating on you with Positional Defense! No-argh! Oh, baby, please. No, please put down the chair, baby. Please! Oh, God. Oh, no. Oh, no.
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The point of this is that, if you're in a situation that actually calls for the type of build you're running with, you're going to be keeping Dull Pain permanent and still be using the heal optimally. +HP is largely pointless because, if you're actually using Dull Pain rather than "tactically" letting it sit around and only using it once every 5 minutes when you actually need the heal, the time period that the +hp from set bonuses isn't completely negated by the hp cap is so small as to be pointless in comparison to when it is up. You're better off aiming for other set bonuses completely. It would be like building a character with capped resistance and then giving him a slew of +res bonuses because, on occasion, he faces enemies with -res. For a vast majority of the time, it's pointless and only has a marginal effect when it is active. You'd be better off going with a different set bonus that is active at all times.
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I disagree. I've found in my experience that having more health outside of Dull Pain allows me some wiggle room without major sacrifice. But the joy of inventions is we can play differently. I've found much success playing my way. I assume you have with yours.
EDIT: Just logged in to see what could be causing the disconnect. I recall now. BS/Regen which is what my Regen is, is soft-capped easily because of Parry to melee/lethal. Thus making it much less necessary for me to depend on set bonuses for most of the things I do.
So I'm not going to disagree with your assessment, but I'll say that it's not really relevant to my character's playstyle.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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EDIT: Just logged in to see what could be causing the disconnect. I recall now. BS/Regen which is what my Regen is, is soft-capped easily because of Parry to melee/lethal. Thus making it much less necessary for me to depend on set bonuses for most of the things I do.
So I'm not going to disagree with your assessment, but I'll say that it's not really relevant to my character's playstyle.
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That'd do it. I know that the only other famed */regen I know of that uses DP in a similar manner (re: actually letting it fall on a regular basis), Werner, is a Kat/Regen. DA/Parry allow for some very different set ups, but I wouldn't recommend a play style like that to anyone that wasn't also a Kat/regen or BS/Regen because no other set provides the same levels of additional defense as DA/Parry cane.
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EDIT: Just logged in to see what could be causing the disconnect. I recall now. BS/Regen which is what my Regen is, is soft-capped easily because of Parry to melee/lethal. Thus making it much less necessary for me to depend on set bonuses for most of the things I do.
So I'm not going to disagree with your assessment, but I'll say that it's not really relevant to my character's playstyle.
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That'd do it. I know that the only other famed */regen I know of that uses DP in a similar manner (re: actually letting it fall on a regular basis), Werner, is a Kat/Regen. DA/Parry allow for some very different set ups, but I wouldn't recommend a play style like that to anyone that wasn't also a Kat/regen or BS/Regen because no other set provides the same levels of additional defense as DA/Parry cane.
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Dark Melee may not provide "Defense" per se, but it does have the option of stacking -tohit debuffs on the target which can amount to much the same thing.
Perhaps not to the same degree that Broadsword and Katana can (I don't know, never having played those sets) as I think their +def buff works against all incoming melee attacks but against a single target like a Boss or AV the stacking -tohit debuff from DM does become noticeable.
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That'd do it. I know that the only other famed */regen I know of that uses DP in a similar manner (re: actually letting it fall on a regular basis), Werner, is a Kat/Regen. DA/Parry allow for some very different set ups, but I wouldn't recommend a play style like that to anyone that wasn't also a Kat/regen or BS/Regen because no other set provides the same levels of additional defense as DA/Parry cane.
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Dark Melee may not provide "Defense" per se, but it does have the option of stacking -tohit debuffs on the target which can amount to much the same thing.
Perhaps not to the same degree that Broadsword and Katana can (I don't know, never having played those sets) as I think their +def buff works against all incoming melee attacks but against a single target like a Boss or AV the stacking -tohit debuff from DM does become noticeable.
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DM will only provide the -tohit against a single target (5 at most with Shadow Maul) but it still doesn't stack up to DA/Parry. It's 15% +def(melee/lethal) and easily stackable 3 times. No other Scrapper attack can provide the same degree of crazy defense.
Granted, DM is not as useful defensively in general, but against single enemies or small groups it does at least provide some additional survivability to the character as a reduction in tohit is essentially equivalent to an equal amount of +def being added to the character in question.
If you wanted to, you could take ToF and stack it with -tohit mods to allow you to stack roughly -35.6 tohit on a single target. Add in the -tohit debuffs from your melee attacks and you can push down a single attackers +tohit by over 45% (a tactic I used to use soloing AVs) which can increase your survivability considerably.
Situational? Certainly.
As generally useful as Parry's +def? No.
But if your concept is an AV hunter it can provide a similar level of protection.
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But if your concept is an AV hunter it can provide a similar level of protection.
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No, it can't. DM can stack up ~30% -tohit with a decent attack string. Archvillains have very significant debuff resistance that, at level 50, will reduce the value of that 30% -tohit to 4.5% -tohit.
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I know super reflexes goes for the soft cap defenses and resistance sets go for soft capping resist, but what does regen look for to cap?
Right now I have a ton of regen set IOs and I've only seen my total regeneration with Fast Heal+Health+Integration at 2.71%/sec and it seems to be gaining slightly. Is there a soft cap, and am I even beginning to approach this, or should I stop pursuing +regen and instead try to gain a different kind of mitigation via sets?
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I've been liking to emphasize +Recharge first, +Defense 2nd and then go for as much overall hitpoints as possible through taking every single Accolade and IO bonus you can to raise your total HP.
Then go for Eye of Magus pronto and then Geas of the Kind Ones. If you can make DP perma and have massive recharge, you can pop MoG. Then switch to Eye of Magus when things get really hairy. Then pop Geas to get the massive recharge and then have everything ready for your next encounter. It's awesome.
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But if your concept is an AV hunter it can provide a similar level of protection.
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No, it can't. DM can stack up ~30% -tohit with a decent attack string. Archvillains have very significant debuff resistance that, at level 50, will reduce the value of that 30% -tohit to 4.5% -tohit.
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I was unaware of that.
I looked it up and they appear to have a flat 77% debuff
resistance to -tohit effects during the "Triangles up" phases.
Based on that I have to agree that adding +def would be a better strategy then, at least during the 66% of the time that the resistance would be in effect.
Although I do have to ask, how does 23% of 30 = 4.5%?
Shouldn't it be 6.9%
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I looked it up and they appear to have a flat 77% debuff
resistance to -tohit effects during the "Triangles up" phases.
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You're wrong there as well. The PToD only contribute to mez resistance. The debuff resistance is always there. It's also not always 77% resistance. It scales by the level of the AV. If you actually checked the link that I gave, you'd see the debuff resist numbers at each level. At level 50 (which I said), an AV has 85% debuff resistance. .15*30 = 4.5%
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I looked it up and they appear to have a flat 77% debuff
resistance to -tohit effects during the "Triangles up" phases.
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You're wrong there as well. The PToD only contribute to mez resistance. The debuff resistance is always there. It's also not always 77% resistance. It scales by the level of the AV. If you actually checked the link that I gave, you'd see the debuff resist numbers at each level. At level 50 (which I said), an AV has 85% debuff resistance. .15*30 = 4.5%
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I was going by the information on Coh/wikia which has the information I quoted.
Archvillain resistances
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This power provides the following resistances during its "triangles up" period:
* 90.0% Knockup Resistance
* 90.0% Knockback Resistance
* 90.0% Repel Resistance
* 77.0% Run Speed Debuff Resistance
* 77.0% Recharge Debuff Resistance
* 77.0% Accuracy Debuff Resistance
* 77.0% Endurance Drain Resistance
* 77.0% ToHit Debuff Resistance
* 77.0% Defense Debuff Resistance (base and all types)
* 77.0% Perception Debuff Resistance
* 77.0% Regeneration Debuff Resistance
* 77.0% Recovery Debuff Resistance
* 50.0 Terrorize Protection
* 50.0 Disorient Protection
* 50.0 Hold Protection
* 50.0 Confuse Protection
* 50.0 Knockup Protection
* 50.0 Knockback Protection
* 50.0 Repel Protection
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I was going by the information on Coh/wikia which has the information I quoted.
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And that information is wrong. The information in this thread is correct, which is why I linked it in the first place.
wikia is complete outdated and not updated by the paragonwiki team
use wiki.cohtitan.com or paragonwiki.com
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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wikia is complete outdated and not updated by the paragonwiki team
use wiki.cohtitan.com or paragonwiki.com
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Actually, the "Archvillain Resistance" page is wrong on both the wikia and cohtitan versions of the site. The "Archvillain" page has the appropriate information.
I know super reflexes goes for the soft cap defenses and resistance sets go for soft capping resist, but what does regen look for to cap?
Right now I have a ton of regen set IOs and I've only seen my total regeneration with Fast Heal+Health+Integration at 2.71%/sec and it seems to be gaining slightly. Is there a soft cap, and am I even beginning to approach this, or should I stop pursuing +regen and instead try to gain a different kind of mitigation via sets?