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Taking the alpha and surviving is not tanking.
[/ QUOTE ]Good job at missing the point where he stated keeping the aggro on him. Holding aggro and surviving through it is the job of a Tank.
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No, that's not the role a Tank plays.
Like I said, tanks control aggro by directing it away from squsihies, etc. They sometimes forego offense for better defense. During normal missions, my tank doesn't even have an attack chain. I absorb alpha and then constantly move around the mob to ensure aggro control. I'll attack here and there to maintain control and provide some DPS. That's nothing like how I play a Brute.
None of my Brutes have Taunt, all my tanks have Taunt.
My Brute enters a mob with a chip on his shoulder and immediately attacks the biggest baddest critter in that mob. I tab to the next, the next and the last. I'm not worried about controlling anything other then pissing off the mobs around me to fuel my need to SMASH.
[/ QUOTE ]Too bad all of that is player choice. Tankers and Brutes control aggro. It doesn't matter if you're worried about control on your Brute or skipping attacks on your Tanker. You have a Taunt Aura and Gauntlet built into your attacks. They will swarm on you, regardless.
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
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The relevance of the defender/blaster comparison is simple. The Brute AT is designed to hold aggro, but lacks the tools on it's own to survive it (excluding Stone). The job of a Blaster is to kill. The job of a Defender is to protect the team. Considering the benefits the two get from Tough (especially Defenders), an AT designed to hold aggro should get a higher benefit from Tough to help it survive. A 17.8 boost is pathetic by comparison.
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I disagree that the Brute AT is designed to hold aggro. Its designed to SMASH and do damage.
Brutes are not tanks they are Brutes and going on a Fury fueled rampage is what they do best.
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ah i see. i guess that explains why they put a taunt aura in evasion, brutes having tank level taunt auras. tanker TAUNT power and single target punchvoke in every attack.
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I am sorry to hear so many that think this way. It seems like so many are trying to make Brutes into tanks.
While you may be a fine player. In my experience the Brutes who try to tank do poorly at being a Brute. These are usually the same people having a hard time playing Brutes. I see them all the time now. Prior to VEAT's and COH players wanting to try VEATS I rarely saw Tanker Brutes. Post VEATs there are a lot more Brutes who never learned the Red side and just try to replicate their Blue side experince. Gratz to the game that it allows them to do so.
I read about people talking about their Brute taking aggro/alpha for a whole team why? Red side you going to have to be saddled with a pretty poor team to need this.
Brutes can taunt yes but it is not what they are all about or their role Red side.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
We aren't trying to do anything.
The Devs gave us Taunt Auras, like Tankers and Scrappers.
The Devs gave us Taunt, like Tankers and Scrappers.
The Devs gave us Gauntlet in our attacks, like Tankers.
The Devs failed to give Masterminds a tool to control their Aggro themselves.
Who's supposed to Tank then?
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
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I am sorry to hear so many that think this way. It seems like so many are trying to make Brutes into tanks.
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Brutes that build themselves like a tank and proceed to play like scrappers do quite well for themselves. The longer I can stay healthy, the longer I can SMASH things into a pulp.
remember that Defenders get Zero mez protection and only get that resistance after 40. Also thats ALL we get. If we go Dark we get Negative and Toxic but Power only gives Smash/Lethal. Electric gives the big three S/L/E and Psi gives.. well.. you get the idea. We dont get much on top of that Smash/Lethal
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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I am sorry to hear so many that think this way. It seems like so many are trying to make Brutes into tanks.
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Brutes that build themselves like a tank and proceed to play like scrappers do quite well for themselves. The longer I can stay healthy, the longer I can SMASH things into a pulp.
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^^This. I play my brutes like this. Build your defenses up and let fury deal with the damage. Not to say I don't slot my attacks out well, it's just a secondary concern.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
wait I'm confused, isn't there a thread over on the scrapper forums with people justifying the potential for brutes to do more damage than scrappers using the arguement that brutes aren't meant to tank?
edit: If surviving the alpha makes you a tank then any well played scrapper is a tank as well and we get fewer tools than brutes.
Brutes our Scrappers on roids. We do just as much damage over time with our fury up. Some folks think it's hard to keep your fury full and it somehow makes you a slave to your fury bar. Others like myself don't even watch the fury bar and just play balls to the wall 100% of the time and end up killing [censored] just as fast as a Scrapper.
As far as tanking....if you build your brute right, you can tank pretty good. If the team that expects your to tank for them provide you with a few good buffs, you can tank just as well as a tanker.
In other words.....brootz iz 3Leet yo. We just need claws prolififerated over and we can officially rename this game City of Brutes, cause we own this [censored].
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wait I'm confused, isn't there a thread over on the scrapper forums with people justifying the potential for brutes to do more damage than scrappers using the arguement that brutes aren't meant to tank?
edit: If surviving the alpha makes you a tank then any well played scrapper is a tank as well and we get fewer tools than brutes.
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it's just fallacy. the only real complaint they have that's somewhat justified is the higher hp on brutes and the tanker hp cap
having tanker resist caps means jack, because if you are on a team with no sonic and no thermal and you arent in granite WITH TOUGH, you arent at 90% to anything. not even brute invuln can cap smash and lethal WITH tough. and because we have "400% taunt on target" in every single attack including the aoes - something scrappers dont have - the extra hp are warranted. the whining about brute resist caps is not.
I don't know about the on going debate you speak of, but my personal experience is that Scrappers don't do enough damage to make up for the lack of survivability compared to Brutes. A well built Brute can charge into any situation without concern, and if worst comes to worst, pop your tier nine. Scrappers our definetly tough, but in no way compare to a Brute. Meanwhile, I don't really feel like I kill things any faster with a scrapper than a brute....so whats the point? I think Scrappers should get an occasional 3x damage SUPER critical hit or something.
I hope Going Rogue isn't the end of proliferation cause I'm not happy with an "evil" claws scrapper. I want a claws brute....and a Katan Brute....and a Broadsword brute.....and....
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I don't know about the on going debate you speak of, but my personal experience is that Scrappers don't do enough damage to make up for the lack of survivability compared to Brutes. A well built Brute can charge into any situation without concern, and if worst comes to worst, pop your tier nine. Scrappers our definetly tough, but in no way compare to a Brute. Meanwhile, I don't really feel like I kill things any faster with a scrapper than a brute....so whats the point? I think Scrappers should get an occasional 3x damage SUPER critical hit or something.
I hope Going Rogue isn't the end of proliferation cause I'm not happy with an "evil" claws scrapper. I want a claws brute....and a Katan Brute....and a Broadsword brute.....and....
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they are about equal. scrappers dont need to fuel fury - the base dmg on their attacks is all higher than a brute and they can crit. critting a fully saturated midnight grasp with a fully saturated aao (scrappers get a higher +dam buff from both over brutes) is an easy 1400 negative dmg - and scrappers crit quite often on bosses, eb's and av's.
both at's have the exact. same. values. on their defensive sets outside of the dmg buff on AAO. brutes can not hit 90% smashing/lethal without granite, tough and rock armor. also not all of the brute primaries lends themselves well to building fury fast on one or two targets - anything longer than 2 seconds animation and you could potentially be losing fury while it's firing.
i see far more forum posts about scrappers soloing touch av's than brutes. of course the av's you fight redside are substantially tougher, and longbow can shut down most of any brutes defenses - something heroes only have to deal with in ONE arc in the RWZ. add into it the mentality of the OP "i'm a stalker without hide lulz" and most brutes dont build for enough survivability in the first place.
Well, I also a run a Electric Armor Brute so I'm really pissed off by the protection.
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
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wait I'm confused, isn't there a thread over on the scrapper forums with people justifying the potential for brutes to do more damage than scrappers using the arguement that brutes aren't meant to tank?
edit: If surviving the alpha makes you a tank then any well played scrapper is a tank as well and we get fewer tools than brutes.
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Don't kid yourself. Lots of Scrappers are Tools.
Wait. That's not what you meant?
Sorry.
;-)
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
I also run a lot of Electric armors. I love them the only complaint I have with them is the lack of defense debuff.
Being Resistance only is fine until you have no Defense. Having my defense so far into the red that opponents hardly ever miss really hurts. Everything else I can deal with or build around.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Err... You have no defense to begin with and piss poor defenses to non-energy.
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
Think of it this way: enemy mobs have a 50% chance to hit you ordinarily. Once your defense is debuffed, they now have a 95% chance to hit you.
That's twice the amount of damage coming in.
That is quite an interesting way of looking at helping resistance sets.
I doubt they will give Electric more S/L resistance, more health or Regen. So it makes some sense.
After all most of the time when I get in trouble my Defense is deep in the red. This would help. It would also allow for a little IO defense building.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
100% need on all Brutes
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Think of it this way: enemy mobs have a 50% chance to hit you ordinarily. Once your defense is debuffed, they now have a 95% chance to hit you.
That's twice the amount of damage coming in.
That is quite an interesting way of looking at helping resistance sets.
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The "50% vs 95%" figure is only true if you're fighting mobs that have no accuracy or toHit buffs. Mobs get an innate accuracy buff if they're higher level than you and/or higher rank than minion.
For example, AVs have an accuracy modifier of 1.5, so they already hit 75% of the time. You only need to be def-debuffed by ~13% to cap hit chance on an AV because (50+13.33 * 1.5) = 94.99.
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Err... You have no defense to begin with and piss poor defenses to non-energy.
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My lvl 50 /elec brute caps nrg res and even with the roughly only 60% s/l feels incredibly strrong and unkillable in PvE. But he's DM and he's one of the few brute sets that I feel I could not survive the level of difficulty I like to play without that heal in his attack chain.
Now PvP lmao.. he's hopeless.. his only def is his res and in pvp zone it drops dramatically. like 25% vs nrg andd about 10 or 12 or something evrywhere else. Oddly that same brute before the pvp changes often took teams of hero 5 or more before he would feel the need to pop surge. 
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The "50% vs 95%" figure is only true if you're fighting mobs that have no accuracy or toHit buffs.
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...which I would guess would be the majority of what you fight in your career prior to hitting 50. There are mobs out there defense won't help against, but for most things, when that defense gets debuffed, you're looking at near double levels of incoming damage in PvE.
I don't care about the giant eyeballs and quartz crystals. There's a reason why most people hate both and avoid fighting them.
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The "50% vs 95%" figure is only true if you're fighting mobs that have no accuracy or toHit buffs.
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...which I would guess would be the majority of what you fight in your career prior to hitting 50. There are mobs out there defense won't help against, but for most things, when that defense gets debuffed, you're looking at near double levels of incoming damage in PvE.
I don't care about the giant eyeballs and quartz crystals. There's a reason why most people hate both and avoid fighting them.
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Note: The only mobs without +accuracy are even con minions. Lieutenants gets 15% accuracy, Bosses 30%, AVs/GMs get 50%. Additionally, for each level above your own, they get 10% accuracy (+1 = +10%, +2 = +20%, etc). Caveat: Past +5 enemies cap at +50% level based acc, and get tohit bonuses as well.
So a +2 lieutenant, for example, would have a 69% chance to hit a character with no defense. Scaling up a bit further, a +3 boss would have an 84.5% chance to hit a character with no defense.
Ironically, it makes the threat of weaker enemies scale up more than stronger enemies.
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The "50% vs 95%" figure is only true if you're fighting mobs that have no accuracy or toHit buffs.
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...which I would guess would be the majority of what you fight in your career prior to hitting 50. There are mobs out there defense won't help against, but for most things, when that defense gets debuffed, you're looking at near double levels of incoming damage in PvE.
I don't care about the giant eyeballs and quartz crystals. There's a reason why most people hate both and avoid fighting them.
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Note: The only mobs without +accuracy are even con minions. Lieutenants gets 15% accuracy, Bosses 30%, AVs/GMs get 50%. Additionally, for each level above your own, they get 10% accuracy (+1 = +10%, +2 = +20%, etc). Caveat: Past +5 enemies cap at +50% level based acc, and get tohit bonuses as well.
So a +2 lieutenant, for example, would have a 69% chance to hit a character with no defense. Scaling up a bit further, a +3 boss would have an 84.5% chance to hit a character with no defense.
Ironically, it makes the threat of weaker enemies scale up more than stronger enemies.
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Actually I think the irony lies in that that +3 boss with 68% chance hits me like 95% of the time and me with my 95% chanceto hit, hits about 68% of the time 
I mean if I had a dollar for everytime I wooshed like 5 times in a row with my combat window saying 95% chance to hit you rolled a 97.6% or whatever.. well I'd buy you all a free couple months of game time 
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I mean if I had a dollar for everytime I wooshed like 5 times in a row with my combat window saying 95% chance to hit you rolled a 97.6% or whatever.. well I'd buy you all a free couple months of game time
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That doesn't happen. If you miss one attack that has a 95% chance to hit, and your next attack has a similar chance, the Streak Breaker will force it to hit. At most, with a 95% chance to hit, you will miss every other attack, but that would mean you are the unluckiest gamer in the world.
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Taking the alpha and surviving is not tanking. If saying it does makes you feel better about being a terrible Brute and an even worse Tank, then more power to you.
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lol. right.