Absolute highest solo DPS?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He also can't necessarily use his melee often unless he invests heavily in melee defense too

[/ QUOTE ] Since you're talking solo DPS, do you mean facing solo size spawns? Because if so, not much defense is needed at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the poster is basically asking "Fighting a Dummy" situation. Who has the MOST dps? Blaster I guess.

I don't care all the claims about how Blaster can survive so well with set bonuses. I've seen plenty of blasters who face dirt so often if they are not babysitted. To me, that's REAL situation.

[/ QUOTE ] I mainly solo, so when I team with my blaster I usually die a bunch. I tend to team the same way I solo, works much better on my Scrappers.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Roger that. hmmm. Can a fire blaster chain blaze/flares/fireblast/flares/repeat?

[/ QUOTE ]
You can, but the melee attacks are better DPA with the exception of Blaze.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Roger that. hmmm. Can a fire blaster chain blaze/flares/fireblast/flares/repeat?

[/ QUOTE ]
You can, but the melee attacks are better DPA with the exception of Blaze.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the most extreme recharge builds can chain Blaze -> Fire Blast -> Flares with no gaps. That's probably the highest pure ranged DPS you can get, though adding melee can push it even higher.

It's looking like the absolute king of single target DPS is probably a perma-Hasten Fire/Electric Blaster if you ignore survivability. The question then becomes can you get that level of recharge while still adding enough defense, regen, and +HP to stay alive solo against an AV or giant monster (since anything less doesn't need that kind of DPS)?

I'm saying solo because in a group it becomes pretty simple. Multiple /Kins plus an 850% damage cap = absolute carnage, so take whichever Brute has the best DPS chain at capped recharge (probably Stone or Fire), add enough /Kins to cap damage and recharge, and watch the fun. Likewise, adding a FF and a Sonic makes survivability a non-issue for anyone.

---

Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Single target may just go to SS brutes

[/ QUOTE ] Dark Melee is higher than Super Strength.

I still don't see how anything can produce the damage a blaster can. Anyone have any comparison numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome.. I'm huge dark fan.. dark/elec brute 50.. dark/dark brute 48.. d/d corr 46.. d/d def.. uh you get the idea I always prefer dark attacks.. but would never claim them best, afraid my judgement might be clouded with too much bias

Question was single targ, if was AoE I'd say you right, blaster ftw.. but since he lookin single targ.. that puts alot of other ATs in the running for champ DPS I'm thinking.

---

Earlier in the thread, Lord_Of_Umbra said
[ QUOTE ]
Always found the "after sets" arguement to make little sense. If that same blaster was not most survivable and DPS producing before sets and now is after sets.. what happens when ATs he was comparing to also slots purple sets?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, let's take two imaginary sets.
One has five attacks that each produce 100 DPS, take one second and recharge in three seconds.

Adding massive recharge to that set does NOTHING to the DPS.

The other one has five attacks- four of them take one second, recharge in three seconds and do 100 DPS, the other one is a super-attack that takes two seconds, recharges in 21 seconds and does 500 DPS.

You could cycle the four normal attacks and throw in the super-attack whenever it's up. The DPS for the whole chain, like that, is about 120 DPS instead of the 100 DPS for the other chain.

If you got to 200% global recharge and 100% recharge in the superattack itself, you would be hitting with the superattack every 7 seconds, instead of every 21 seconds. Your DPS goes up to about 160.

There are superattacks in various sets- KO Blow in Superstrength comes to mind- which are huge, but slow to recharge; there are also attacks like Blaze, which are only "large" but are VERY fast (so huge DPS, but another way.)

If you make them three times as frequent, you end up with a great improvement in DPS.

All killer, no filler.

---

Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

[ QUOTE ]
Always found the "after sets" arguement to make little sense. If that same blaster was not most survivable and DPS producing before sets and now is after sets.. what happens when ATs he was comparing to also slots purple sets?


[/ QUOTE ]

I was comparing like to like. The blaster high damage powers do more to start and get even better as recharge goes up. The problem is without sets blasters aren't as survivable. Once you get them some defense sets, that changes.

[ QUOTE ]
Single target may just go to SS brutes tho, while AoE sucks their fast attack chain requires little tweaking to build and hold fury and KO blow with it's massive dam, KU AND hold is pretty nasty.ST one time attack pretty sure goes to nrg builds, but the long ani on ET (cripes, they turned my fav punch into an AS attack lol) make it screw up sustained dps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unbuffed and on one target ? They start slow and need to work up that fury. They also aren't coming into their own till rage is stacked.

---

[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying solo because in a group it becomes pretty simple. Multiple /Kins plus an 850% damage cap = absolute carnage, so take whichever Brute has the best DPS chain at capped recharge (probably Stone or Fire), add enough /Kins to cap damage and recharge, and watch the fun. Likewise, adding a FF and a Sonic makes survivability a non-issue for anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Under those conditions, I'd be surprised if the Fire/Fire blaster could be beat. HF + BA + Blaze + Ring of Fire + Fire Sword.

---

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

Yeah, a Fire/Fire Blaster under ideal conditions is a scary sight. I've seen one on a team with a Kin and a Rad.

Burn, baby, burn.

Generally low resistances to fire make it even sweeter.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying solo because in a group it becomes pretty simple. Multiple /Kins plus an 850% damage cap = absolute carnage, so take whichever Brute has the best DPS chain at capped recharge (probably Stone or Fire), add enough /Kins to cap damage and recharge, and watch the fun. Likewise, adding a FF and a Sonic makes survivability a non-issue for anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Under those conditions, I'd be surprised if the Fire/Fire blaster could be beat. HF + BA + Blaze + Ring of Fire + Fire Sword.

[/ QUOTE ]
The damage auras take a while to tick off and don't contribute as much as another, better single target attack (Havoc Punch), Charged Brawl is better DPA than Fire Sword, and Shocking Grasp is better than Ring of Fire.

Sure, Fire/Fire for AoE. But to a single target it's not there.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying solo because in a group it becomes pretty simple. Multiple /Kins plus an 850% damage cap = absolute carnage, so take whichever Brute has the best DPS chain at capped recharge (probably Stone or Fire), add enough /Kins to cap damage and recharge, and watch the fun. Likewise, adding a FF and a Sonic makes survivability a non-issue for anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Under those conditions, I'd be surprised if the Fire/Fire blaster could be beat. HF + BA + Blaze + Ring of Fire + Fire Sword.

[/ QUOTE ]
The damage auras take a while to tick off and don't contribute as much as another, better single target attack

[/ QUOTE ]The advantage to damage auras is that you don't have to activate them during battle, so it's a straight add to your DPS.

---

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

[ QUOTE ]
The advantage to damage auras is that you don't have to activate them during battle, so it's a straight add to your DPS.

[/ QUOTE ]
...of a minor amount once every two seconds.

If you want to be really nitpicky about it, Hot Feet also causes them to scatter making melee attacks less effective since you have to move, and Electricity Manipulation gets a damage aura as well; but if you want to by all means go ahead and add both auras in for an extra (at the damage cap) 62.55 DPS, and an extra 23.625 DPS for Lightning Field (once again, at the cap)... the DPA of Havoc Punch is 421.3 at the damage cap, so with the numbers you're looking at it's a minor change that won't make up the difference.

---

It's not likely to ever change the ordering of who's best, but it does change the answer to "absolute highest solo DPS"

---

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

You know, since this is about a hypothetical situation where incoming damage doesn't matter (like fighting a dummy), I have to nominate Thug/Poison or Thug/Trap (or even Merc).

Thug/Trap
Enforcers with AH Proc, Acid Mortar with AH Proc and if the master has high recharge, you can easily lay down two Acid Mortar to get 2x debuff values. That is A LOT of resistance debuffs. Bruiser at melee range of course.


Thug/Poison
Noxious gas is easier with Brusier and if the master's recharge is high, you can put it on Brusier pretty frequently. And /poison has one of the nastiest single debuffs that also includes -regen. Sometimes -regen > dps.

And both Thug/Trap and Thug/Poison, the master uses tier 1 and tier 2 attacks as well. MM's damage is quite high when master uses personal attacks. And does MM get Knockout Blow too? LOL

I am not so sure if Blaster is all that > Thug MM.

---

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

[ QUOTE ]
You know, since this is about a hypothetical situation where incoming damage doesn't matter (like fighting a dummy), I have to nominate Thug/Poison or Thug/Trap (or even Merc).

Thug/Trap
Enforcers with AH Proc, Acid Mortar with AH Proc and if the master has high recharge, you can easily lay down two Acid Mortar to get 2x debuff values. That is A LOT of resistance debuffs. Bruiser at melee range of course.


Thug/Poison
Noxious gas is easier with Brusier and if the master's recharge is high, you can put it on Brusier pretty frequently. And /poison has one of the nastiest single debuffs that also includes -regen. Sometimes -regen > dps.

And both Thug/Trap and Thug/Poison, the master uses tier 1 and tier 2 attacks as well. MM's damage is quite high when master uses personal attacks. And does MM get Knockout Blow too? LOL

I am not so sure if Blaster is all that > Thug MM.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the OP's second post in the thread:[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking solo, sustained DPS... specifically against archvillains and higher. In particular, I was wondering if it's possible to actually outdamage a Giant Monster's regen without debuffs, or failing that, who can take out AVs the fastest.

I know debuffs help a lot, but I was looking mainly at the pure damage ATS and they don't get many. It looks like Fire/Shield and DM/Shield are strong contenders since they can keep a crowd of minions around them to buff their damage (and survive all that aggro). I wonder how a high-recharge Stone/Shield or Fire/Shield Brute compares to the Scrapper once you figure in Fury?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're throwing out debuffs because it wasn't in the listed criteria.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Thug/Trap
Enforcers with AH Proc, Acid Mortar with AH Proc and if the master has high recharge, you can easily lay down two Acid Mortar to get 2x debuff values. That is A LOT of resistance debuffs. Bruiser at melee range of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming each Enforcer is getting off 4 proc chances per 10 second period (11.8% average contribution each) and 2 Acid Mortars (40% contribution), each getting off 1 proc chance per 10 second period (7.2% average contribution), that's only 70.8% -res. In order to get more than the ~280 dps that IO'd Fire blasters are capable of pulling, the MM and his pets would need to put out 163.93 dps before factoring in -res. I'm not a MM expert, but I'm reasonably sure that even a Thugs/* MM would find that difficult, if not impossible.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes -regen > dps.

[/ QUOTE ]-regen == dps (when applied to hard targets), actually, though GMs, AVs, and critters higher level than you resist -regen making its contribution frequently minimal. Minions and Lieutenants (and sometimes even Bosses) don't live long enough for -regen to be a significantly contributing factor.

In almost all cases, -res >> -regen, too.

---

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

[ QUOTE ]
You know, since this is about a hypothetical situation where incoming damage doesn't matter (like fighting a dummy), I have to nominate Thug/Poison or Thug/Trap (or even Merc).

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking from personal experience here, which is pretty useless, but lethal resists end game take a sizable chunk out of your DPS potential. Fight Longbow with mercs and your offense gets cut nearly in half or worse.

With buffs/debuffs included, the Blaster beats the MM, mostly because the Blaster gets to use his secondary, while the MM doesn't due to the no buff/debuff idea.

---

I wasn't actually suggesting no debuffs at all, I just assumed that ATs with debuffs tend to have less DPS (even with the debuffs applied). A Rad or Kin Defender can really boost a team's damage output, but a Blaster's blasts are so much more powerful than a Defender's that the Blaster hits harder solo, even after the debuffs are applied. A Sonic/Kin Corruptor might actually be a contender thanks to the +damage and -resist, but I'm not sure even that compares to a Fire/Electric Blaster. Debuffs from IOs and secondary effects are fine... or even from debuffing ATs if you can make a case for them matching a pure DPS AT's damage.

As for Masterminds, my experience with them suggests that they can't match an ultra high recharge purpled out Blaster or Brute in raw damage. They do dish out a lot, but the inability to boost the pets' attack rate is a killer. I don't play Ninjas though, so maybe their higher single target damage would make a difference.

Incidentally, the reason I started this thread was that I was reading about soloing giant monsters and was wondering if any build could beat their insane regen without regen debuffs. I didn't bother with survivability because IOs can do wonders there... I wanted to find the top DPS builds, and leave working in enough defense, HP, and regen to survive the attempt to someone rich enough to attempt actually making one of these uber-builds. Which is not me...

---

Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636