Observations/questions of a newbie for Ice/Devices
By
BladedEdge123,
Posted on: 2009-05-31 09:07 in Blasters
If you didnt liked Caltrops, i'm afraid there is little you will really like later down the line in /Devices. Caltrops are the gem of /Device IMO.
You have great controls in Ice, so it dosent help /Device shine any better either!
Keep in mind that my Favorite char of ALL TIME is a AR/Device blaster. I LOVE Device. But its definatly not the case for everyone and understandably.
I think Ice have enough controls by itself that you could go for the pure performance enhancer that is /Energy.
It got Power Boost to make your holds even more powerful, Conserve Power to fix any Endurance issues (and great post-Blizzard, just pop a blue insp), Boost Range will work well with the slowing inherent to Ice blasts to keep a safe distance.
To top it off, Total Focus and Bone Smasher to smack those held foes.
Ice/Devices actually works out pretty well as a solo, ranged character. Use caltrops as insurance to keep mobs from getting into melee; use web grenade as an immobilize to keep stuff at range; use cloaking device to move yourself into position, etc. However, devices tend to favor a methodical play style and that may not fit with what you're looking for.
I'd recommend Ice/ice if you're looking to build a ranged type character with some utility support. Chillblain is a higher damage version of web grenade, shiver is a great AoE -rech and slow, and ice patch can be used much like caltrops.
Ice is a very good primary, although it tends to be what I refer to as "Bartender with a mallet" playstyle.
"You, sir! [wham] You! [wham] I'll get back to you [hold]. And you [hold]. OK, you! [wham]" It's very, VERY good at both singletarget damage and holds.
I actually found my Ice/Ice to have TOO MANY really good toys that mitigate damage. I had stuff that, on another blaster, I would have used, but it was just too far down the batting order.
I'm not a /Dev fan because I want my blasters to go fast, and have Build Up. My playstyle is not the only playstyle, and maybe even not the best.
So I'd suggest something like Ice/Energy [a classic combo and still very good] or Ice/Elec. I don't have an intuitive feel for Ice/Mental- I've mostly used mental to provide a third area-of-effect for sets which have two already, but it's got a lot of different good tools. Whatever you end up with, I recommend both Build Up and Aim- perfect together.
[Incidentally, when soloing it's probably going to be around 200 hours to level 50, maybe more. Don't think that just because you played something to 14 you've "Gone too far to start something else." You have 8 to 12 slots per server,and I still find the lowbie game fun. ]
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I have an Ice/Dev myself and it's a gem of a character. I'd initially made him Elec/Dev and, ugg... but that's a story for another time.
Levels 1-12 I'd taken:
Ice Bolt
Ice Blast
Web Grenade
Caltrops
Hurdle
Combat Jumping
Targeting Drone
Ice Storm
I'd personally skip Frost Breath (not sure why I dislike it so, perhaps it's because IMO it's a second-class knockoff of Fire Breath, 2 instead of 3 tics?).
Take Bitter Ice Blast at 18.
I also delayed Freeze Ray until later, the duration was too short w/o SOs IMO.
Caltrops is indeed a great power. You don't get it for the damage aspect (although I've got mine slotted w/ Damage/Slow IOs), you get it for the AI it induces. Mobs forget running at you to melee, and start trying to run out of the Caltrop field. It's a huge damage mitigation tool at the lower levels.
Ice Storm is another good mitigation tool (before you can slot it effectively for damage), because of the higher accuracy out-of-the-box and similar AI interference mentioned above.
As I mentioned above, BIB is a fantastic single-target attack, get it, slot it, love it. This combo just keeps getting better.
Take Cloaking Device some time before you get Trip Mine and buy a Stealth IO. You'll be able to toe-bomb as soon as you pick up TM (or take Super Speed as a travel power, not my favorite).
Ice Storm and Blizzard together is a thing of beauty to behold.
I'd also skip Tazer if you're Ice. No other stun to stack it with (to stun bosses), and you've got two holds in your primary anyway.
Gun Drone is a long-overdue, sorely-needed upgrade of Gun Turret, and something that's almost perfect (needs short activation and/or non-interrupt IMO).
I went Munitions Mastery for Surveillence and haven't looked back (took Body Armor as an IO mule power to get there).
I can send you my build if you're interested, but my advice to you is to not bail out on /Dev as a secondary, if you solo, it's a wonderful toolbox that'll reward a thinking approach (as opposed to "target next, button-mash spam").
Best of luck!
My Main Blaster is a level 41 Ice/Fire. I've also got a 39 Archery/Dev. I think Ice is a great choice for a soloist. It's mainly single target damage and it's nuke is ranged. It's got two holds, and you want them both. Bitter Freeze Ray takes days to fire, but you can follow it up in about a second with Freeze Ray to hold a boss. A lot of time, they can't even get a shot off.
Personally, I like Frost Breath. It's the only AoE you get in the primary except for Ice Storm (minimal Damage) and Blizzard (Massive Damage, but End crash). Damage is less than Fire, but it has a slow effect and each of the two ticks does a little more than fire's ticks. Total damage, Frost breath is about 20% less.
I'll usually open with Frost Breath, then pop off Freeze ray at the LT if there is one, then a my two minor attacks at two of the mobs, BIB at the third. That's all it should take after Defiance fueled by 4 attacks. By then the two smaller attacks are back up to finish off the one held. with Frost breath back up to take out the stragglers. The way I play my Ice Blaster is to never attack the same target twice in a row if it can be helped, except for stacking the Ring of Fire with the first attack power.
I use Ice storm defensively. Damage isn't great, but it can very useful in keeping big hitters away for long enough to take them out. I use Caltrops the same way.
The single biggest issue with the Devices set is the lack of a Build up power. BU is really nice to have before opening the way I described above. The other issue I have with Dev is that my archer leveled faster than any character Ive ever played, until I got Trip Mines. The cool factor is just so strong that I can't ignore them, but they slow things down a lot. I'm starting to use them defensively as well. I'll drop one to four (depending on the mob size) in a row about 30 feet apart, then move up to the first one. As stuff gets close, it explodes and I fall back.
Time bomb is a power that is very situational. With a controller on the team, It could be awesome. Cloaking device+Super Speed will let you set it up in the middle of a spawn and Defiance will give you close to a 50% damage boost for about 8 seconds. The problem is it takes a really long time to set up. Like 8 to 10 seconds. Then you have about 15 seconds before it goes off, so timing is critical. Having a minefield set up to hide behind is a good idea.
Gun Drone I think is slightly less situational. Great for Boss fights, or big spawns, but not really something you can use all the time. This is doubly true if you plan to make use of the Cloaking device. The Gun drone doesn't really care if you want to be sneaky. It sees something and fires.
We have an SG member who chose Ice/Dev for his first character, and played mainly solo to 50. If it fits your play style you can get it to work.
I would skip Taser completely, and hold off on targeting Drone until after 20. Ice uses a lot of Endurance. Time Bomb is basically optional with a lot of votes in the "skip it category" Ice storm does less damage than Caltrops by about 10%. Yep. Less. The difference is that it does it in 15 seconds instead of 45. If I had to pick only one of them, I'd go with Caltrops. They last for 45 seconds and recharge in 45 seconds, rather than lasting for 15 seconds and recharging every minute. You could actually stack them, and with two holds and in Immobilize, you could do bad things to minions while beating down the LT and Bosses. At level 2, you can kill minions with unslotted Caltrops and Web grenade, assuming the grenade hits every time.
So, from the early build, we've taken out Ice Storm, Taser and T-Drone. You can get Stamina, and Hasten/SS all by 20. I pushed Frost breath back until after 20 as well. This is just a quick, get to 20 build, and by means anything final. Depending on play style though, I think it would work.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 40 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Ice Blast
Secondary Power Set: Devices
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Acc(A), EndRdx(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(9)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- Acc(A)
Level 2: Ice Blast -- Acc(A), EndRdx(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(9)
Level 4: Caltrops -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(40)
Level 6: Aim -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(25)
Level 8: Freeze Ray -- Acc(A), Hold(11), Hold(11), RechRdx(13), Range(15)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(13), RechRdx(15)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(17), Heal(17)
Level 18: Bitter Ice Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(19), Dmg(19), Dmg(23), RechRdx(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Cloaking Device -- EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Targeting Drone -- EndRdx(A), ToHit(25)
Level 26: Bitter Freeze Ray -- Acc(A), Hold(27), Hold(27), Range(37), Range(37)
Level 28: Frost Breath -- Acc(A), Dmg(29), Dmg(29), Dmg(34), RechRdx(36), Range(37)
Level 30: Trip Mine -- Acc(A), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(36)
Level 32: Blizzard -- Dmg(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(34)
Level 35: Ice Storm -- RechRdx(A)
Level 38: Gun Drone -- Acc(A), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), EndRdx(40), EndRdx(40)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.
They got it pretty good as far as the variety of opinions on /Devices.
I have a Sonic/Devices that I love to death. The later powers in Devices favor planning and strategy to use effectively. If you get good with them it will be hard to find a safer, more survivable blaster. Downside is you will not move fast and safe at the same time.
I have limited experience with Ice, my highest character with that set was deleted at level 20. I'll share what I do know, whether it be first hand or second hand information (I'll clarify which is which)
Awesome single target damage, kind of mediocre AoE damage, with the majority coming from the two rain powers (Ice Storm and Blizzard)
A pair of holds will let you hold bosses, as just one is not enough to do it by itself.
Slows are an often overlooked form of damage mitigation. If they are not shooting at you as often you take less damage.
The highest damaging nuke in the game. Blizzard will put other nukes to shame with it's sheer damage output. The catch? They have to remain in the radius of the power to recieve all the damage. Other upside to Blizzard is you do not have to have line of sight to use it, you can nuke around a corner. (second hand info, never got one high enough)
Ice/Devices is a solid combo, but if you're finding that you don't enjoy it you may be better off rolling something else.
A word of advice here: If you DO decide that Ice/Devices is not for you, don't delete the character. You may come back to it later and decide you really like it. I have a number of characters that got deleted that I wish I hadn't. My aforementioned Ice/Electric being one of them, my Kinetics/Sonic defender being another.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Great info here. I just started an ice/dev.
As for caltrops, I find it a bit more useful to get mobs to bunch up a bit (if I drop it in between) for use with frost breath.
A couple things I like about /dev is that there's only one power that forces you to go to melee (the others have melee attacks that hit hard and almost required). Also, it comes with a stealth power, which doesn't have a movement penalty (I'm starting to like having stealth on my characters).
Thanks guys for your info and builds.
Duey
Just a quick clearing up of a few ongoing misconceptions that don't want to die regarding ice storm that were mentioned in this thread. It has normal accuracy, you will want to slot accuracy in it. It's damage is underrated, 116 at lvl 50 in a huge AoE. Basically a good power for frankenslotting with IO's since you'll want accuracy, slow, damage, and recharge all in good numbers imho.
Poor frost breath gets beaten up on too, I almost think a good part of it is its lackluster hard to see graphics. It just doesn't look impressive compared to something like fire breath, but it's a good attack.
I almost always suggest taking electric epic with ice blast, its cone aoe attack has the same range as frost breath for a good one-two punch and you then have some decent AoE not even counting ice storm and blizzard.
Thank you for all the information everyone! This has really been helpful in giving me some ideas/renewed interest in my build. I do think I am going to try some other things out to see what fits (I -love- how there are so many well balanced options in this game).
I ended up using my secondary build to switch out caltrops for ice storm at lvl 12. I'm a bit unsure how to put up builds in forums atm but I've got all the ice power line, except aim, and skiped taser/caltrops on one, and taser/ice storm (for now) on the other.
I figure Aim is good, but not until higher level when the short boost can be slotted to be longer, and I am facing enemies that I couldn't just take down without any boosts to my powers anyhow.
From what I've read, I'll skip time-bomb, be sure to take all the other Ice powers and go with cloaking device/trip mine and gun drone if I can find room in the build.
I only realized half way through the character that I needed stamina so baddly! (Obvious I know but I'm new remember :P) so for now, 14-20 is set in stone (travel power, pre stamina 1, 2, stamina)
Or, is BIB worth taking at 18 if it means I won't get stamina until lvl 22? I'm tempted but, how important is stamina in the level grind between 20 and 22?
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I figure Aim is good, but not until higher level when the short boost can be slotted to be longer, and I am facing enemies that I couldn't just take down without any boosts to my powers anyhow.
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Misconception Alert!
There is no way to extent the duration of the boost from Aim. It's 10 seconds. Period. Set in stone. You can add recharge reductions to get it back in about 50 seconds instead of 90, but that 10 is a constant. BTW, that''s the only slotting recommended for Aim, unless you get into Set IOs. 2 or three recharge is you can spare them, and call it good.
As for BIB or stamina at 22, it really depends on what you plan to do. I didn't know about BIB back when I hit that level so I think I put it off til 24. If I were to re-roll, I wouldn't do that again, but I don't think it's BAD choice.
My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.
tldr;
I have a 50 Ice/Ice/Ice blaster. If you like Ice Primary, go ahead and reroll to make an Ice/Ice. When you get up to APPs, get Ice as well. It's seriously an awesome set.
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Or, is BIB worth taking at 18 if it means I won't get stamina until lvl 22? I'm tempted but, how important is stamina in the level grind between 20 and 22?
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BIB -is- awesome; I'd actually be tempted to push Stamina back to 22 to get BIB ASAP. You'll be sucking wind more often, perhaps, but with BIB you can also end fights a LOT faster: it's the BIG GUN.
FWIW, I have a 45-ish Ice/Ice/Ice blaster and I only rarely find myself using Ice Storm --- even with slows, it's easy for foes to run out of the AoE (unless they're also falling down on ice patch or rooted/held).
With Ice/Devices, you can perhaps keep foes in the Ice Storm with Caltrops / web grenade and the two ice holds... but if you had a free respec, I'd juggle things to get Stamina at 20 and BiB at 18 --- which could mean pushing Ice Storm out some.
Oh, Taser is also not to be ignored: my Devices blasters usually put it on auto-fire since if I am close enough for it to launch, I'm usually close to aggro range (although the cloaking device of course prevents ACTUAL aggro until much closer)... the stun can be slotted to last quite a long time and with ice's holds (or web nade or caltrops) you can keep stunned foes from wandering around too much.
A lot of people don't care for the second ice freeze ray, but I got both of them (and the one from the ice secondary!)... Bitter Freeze Ray has the longest range of your ice attacks so sometimes I can fire it at extreme range, hold one foe and then AS I move closer so I can fire freeze ray, the target of freeze ray is ~just~ realizing that his buddy is in a block of Bitter Frozen Ice. In this way, I can lock down an entire solo-size spawn with little to no risk.
VERY safe, ice is. And devices' cloaking device, taser, and caltrops further enhance safety.
Tog replied:
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I figure Aim is good, but not until higher level when the short boost can be slotted to be longer, and I am facing enemies that I couldn't just take down without any boosts to my powers anyhow.
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Misconception Alert!
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I would add to that, actually, that Aim is important even MORE in the early game.
Why? Damage slotting.
Aim is a 65% damage buff- so when you're level 12 and you have two DO's of damage, it takes you from roughly 130% damage to 195%. That is, it gives you one and a half times your "normal" damage.
When you're level 24 and you have three SO's of damage, you are at 195% and Aim takes you to 260%.
So it only adds a third to your damage.
Additionally, in the early game, you sometimes have issues hitting. Aim fixes that, during its duration.
Aim (and especially Build Up, if you decide to play nondevices) are more important to me than Stamina. That's a big statement , but I feel those buffs on a blaster are THAT GOOD.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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From what I've read, I'll skip time-bomb, be sure to take all the other Ice powers and go with cloaking device/trip mine and gun drone if I can find room in the build.
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If you're really new to the game, I suggest that you take everything from the primary and secondary sets. Try them out yourself. Sometimes, you have your own way of doing things and nobody will know. You can always respec and get rid of the unwanted powers later. For blasters, there are no gimped builds, feel free to try out anything you want and keep an open mind to do any crazy things that you can imagine.
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I only realized half way through the character that I needed stamina so baddly! (Obvious I know but I'm new remember :P) so for now, 14-20 is set in stone (travel power, pre stamina 1, 2, stamina)
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One common trick is to use temporary travelling power at the beginning levels, then you can free up the level 14 power for something else. You can always pick up a travelling power slightly later in your career.
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I've no experience with the later /device powers but I've read conflicting reports of them. The two set to blow up when enemies come close powers are either 'awesome damage!' or 'slow and weak, not worth it at all' And the gun drone is just bad, right? Weak, slow, not good backup at all. Or its really good/not that at all.
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In the later game, the traps need to be set up, and it is slow to set up all these things. Since the culture of the game is to rush in and vaporize the mobs, the nature of the mines and bombs doesn't click with the common play style. For example, nobody gonna wait for you to set up the traps in a team. That's why you see conflicting reports about /device. Some people can utilize the traps, but some can't.
There is also some history about /device as well. There were nerfs and development that directly or indirectly affect /device, and somehow give the set a bad reputation too.
After returning after a years absents from CoH (in which my highest level character was a lvl 14 brute..) I've finally returned and gotten into my true love, blowing things up from a distance!
I tend to be extremely uninterested in teams (and I play during the late morning/early afternoon so there aren't a lot of them anyhow. My highest level character made so far now is a lvl 12 Ice/Devices blaster. I must say I am very satisfied with the Ice/ part of the character, having so many controlling elements (freeze, slow down etc) in a mainly damage dealing character is a lot of fun. I am not however very happy with the /Devices side of things. Web grenade has proved alright, but not long range enough. I skipped taking both caltrops and taser at first (caltrops because I wanted to fill out my attacks first, and taser because it seems a ineffective control option in comparison with my others). Targeting drone -is- however very nice. Being able to not have worry about accuracy in any of my attacks is quite nice.
Upon hitting lvl 12, I initially took caltrops over the ice-storm power (i'm new, forgive me for not knowing the right name). I almost immediately used my second build option to take ice instead though. Caltrops seems..bad. Little slow down, bad damage. the ice storm power just seems to blow it out of the water in all ways.
I am thus conflicted. Should I remake and take a different secondary? if so, which one fits best for someone who will more or less be purely solo (except when playing with friends..of which the team will likely be just 2 poeple). I've no experience with the later /device powers but I've read conflicting reports of them. The two set to blow up when enemies come close powers are either 'awesome damage!' or 'slow and weak, not worth it at all' And the gun drone is just bad, right? Weak, slow, not good backup at all. Or its really good/not that at all.
So I'm wondering, what is everyone else's observations on this? Am I just so far too low a level to see the power of /devices or the weakness of Ice/ for soloing purposes? Given my highest level character ever is 14, I've no experience with higher level content to base my own opinions on as of yet. Worse, given its taken me a week to get to lvl 12, I am loath to play him much further without being -sure- things will get better. Its early enough I can remake without losing too much work, but if so, into what?
With so many choices I'm finding it hard to settle on a character. I'd -like- to get a travel power on a hero one of these days..but by the time I do I want it to be on a character I plan to take to lvl 50. Its hard to be sure what sort of blaster to play though with only experience with multiple sets from 1-8th level or so. Worse it seems some builds only shine late in the game (and thus might be worth slugging through but don't seem to be at first) and others seem to shine in the early but suffer in the late) (thus seeming attractive but ultimately unsatisfying.
I want to primarily solo, so having control elements is fun. I also want something that will level up fairly quickly/straight forwardly however (given I will take so long to do so). Ice/ Seems a good choice then, but what other primaries also offer a fairly on par controlish element to them if any? /Devices seems a fun secondary, but better for someone who is looking for a 'new experience' after getting tired of the straight-forward level grind.
So, what does everyone think? What have your experiences shown you? What advice might you give me?
Thanks!