Im pretty certain that preemptive healing doesn't exist.
Even targeting a tank/scrapper who is about to take an alpha is reactive, just the cause of th reaction is different than the 'typical' red health bar.
Its smart to plan like that so that the effect is felt faster, its just not really premeptive.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Fields of Force in Dune were overcome by training melee fighting techniques against them. If you realize applying force Y in direction Z against target X pushes you A along the X/Y/Z axis to the left, you adjust and end up hitting the guy if you're good enough.
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Actually, I believe that the force shields in Dune actually hardened based on how fast an incoming whatever is coming at them. It will stop something coming in fast but allow in something coming in slow. The melee techniques they taught soldiers were to slow the weapon down mid-combat to allow your blade to pass through your opponent's shield rather than having it bounce/ricochet off.
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"Accepted fact" does not equal "fact". "Facts" are things that are true, not necessarily things that are thought to be true. The only facts that are mutable over time are pieces of information about things that are changing over time. I'll concede the point that "facts are debatable"-- people debate over facts all the time. That doesn't mean that it's objectively possible to prove that the facts are on one side or the other: it was never objectively true that the Earth was flat, and therefore it was never a fact.
[/ QUOTE ]Even if your definition of fact is correct, it is a Fact that the weight of a Kilogram is changing over time. I forget the reference link to the news article. But the official weight that is used to define 1 Kilogram, is losing mass.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
try here
pdf file
Skip to the proceedings and/or recommendations.
This is the wikipedia page section summarising some of the drift in the Kilogram
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Y'know... I think I'd actually like to see a new power like this, that gives large ticks of healing over a short time. It'd be something new and interesting at least, and could fit into a new powerset.
You know, I just realized "preemptive healing" is a contradiction in terms. 
All healing is reactive. If something is preemptive, then it's not healing.
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Y'know... I think I'd actually like to see a new power like this, that gives large ticks of healing over a short time. It'd be something new and interesting at least, and could fit into a new powerset.
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I agree. DoT healing would be kind of cool, and fit the idea of pre-emptive healing exactly.
Its not a million miles from +Regen like Adrenalin Boost or Regen Aura really, so they prove that the idea works in principle.
Doesn't Pain Dom have a PBAOE heal toggle that is effectively DoT ?
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
The way some people use healing aura on auto gives large ticks over a short period of time. I think the slope just got slippery.
They didn't explain the actual mechanics of the personal shields in dune, other than that they can be directionally applied (half shields, from the arena duals) and the slower versus faster thing. Granted Herbert wasn't big on explaining the deep mechanics of his tech ideas unless it involved peoples' naughty bits.
GPF (the webcomic) used a similar thing earlier on (like years ago) with their sonic shields, though those weren't explained fully either 
If it really was a deflection field it'd be easier to adjust against the slower the attack was, but you're probably correct in stating it was more complex than just a field of deflection force pushing things to the side or away. Perhaps like an air density alteration. The more dense the medium, the more friction is presented and the worse it gets for things trying to move faster through it.
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..."Facts" are things that are true...
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I don't think that this is the dictionary definition of the word, nor the scientific version. I'm also thinking that no one has really included that in their posts. Not trying to flame anyone, just sayin'. That's probably not the best starting point for discussion.
How about we leave the term "preemptive healing" out of it and start with a dictionary definition of "preemptive". That being a word that is probably much older and more recognized than the term, it sounds like a better jumping off point. Otherwise, we just might be doomed to the irony of naming an opinion as fact when the owner of said opinion doesn't have a clear definition of the word "fact" anyway.
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Yeah, well, that little bit about what "fact" means was meant to be illustrative that questions of semantics often short-circuit discussions like this. The actual discussion of whether or not "the Earth is flat" is a fact isn't all that interesting, but if the only definition of "fact" I'm willing to accept requires that facts be true (which I would contend is *one of* the dictionary definitions, and the scientific definition requires that a fact be something that is "actual or observable" which seems compatible to me), then we're not going to have a very interesting argument.
I also wonder if I was intended to be the target of that "the owner...doesn't have a clear definition of the word 'fact' anyway." Sure seems like it, and I think that's a rather odd statement to make, since I actually went out of my way to define what I meant when I used the word.
At any rate, I agree with you that a good definition of "preemptive" is worthwhile in this discussion. For the purposes of my earlier post, I used a pretty expansive definition of "preemptive": as long as you take an action (and usually I consider this from the user's perspective of activating/queuing up a power, rather than the hero's perspective of when a power takes place) before the effect you're using is necessary, you're preemptively doing something.
From the hero's perspective, healing powers are reactive, because pretty much any instantaneous power is reactive: from the hero's perspective, it takes effect as soon as the hero wants to do something.
From the effect of the power, healing powers are reactive: damage needs to be taken before healing can happen.
But from the player's perspective, you can use them preemptively: any time you're anticipating something, you're using a power preemptively. And I think the strongest case that "preemptive heals" exist is the last one that I made, that Regen Aura and Adrenalin Boost are preemptive heals. I don't think in this case that "preemptive" is used controversially; the controversial usage there is "heal", but as a player, that's how I think of the power: I use RA and AB in place of using direct healing powers.
<QR>
What the person seems to be referring to is a spell cast on an ally that will heal a certain amount of hitpoints each time the ally target takes damage. Sort of like a damage shield in reverse...instead of the mob attacking the target taking damage each time they strike the ally, the ally is healed a small amount.
Sorry, not in this game.
Damage shields would be kool though 
Edit: I do believe EQ or EQ2 had either or both of these.
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..."Facts" are things that are true...
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I don't think that this is the dictionary definition of the word, nor the scientific version. I'm also thinking that no one has really included that in their posts. Not trying to flame anyone, just sayin'. That's probably not the best starting point for discussion.
How about we leave the term "preemptive healing" out of it and start with a dictionary definition of "preemptive". That being a word that is probably much older and more recognized than the term, it sounds like a better jumping off point. Otherwise, we just might be doomed to the irony of naming an opinion as fact when the owner of said opinion doesn't have a clear definition of the word "fact" anyway.
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Yeah, well, that little bit about what "fact" means was meant to be illustrative that questions of semantics often short-circuit discussions like this. The actual discussion of whether or not "the Earth is flat" is a fact isn't all that interesting, but if the only definition of "fact" I'm willing to accept requires that facts be true (which I would contend is *one of* the dictionary definitions, and the scientific definition requires that a fact be something that is "actual or observable" which seems compatible to me), then we're not going to have a very interesting argument.
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Rest assured, I whole heartedly agree. The topic probably should have been put to rest before it got this far.
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I also wonder if I was intended to be the target of that "the owner...doesn't have a clear definition of the word 'fact' anyway." Sure seems like it, and I think that's a rather odd statement to make, since I actually went out of my way to define what I meant when I used the word.
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A target? No, I don't do that unless someone is just being extremely ridiculous. That was a poke at the irony of arguing a fact that the masses haven't accepted as fact in the first place (This acceptance option being a luxury of an environment built mostly by the players that is.) It's just pointless. As you said, it's not even interesting discussion.
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At any rate, I agree with you that a good definition of "preemptive" is worthwhile in this discussion. For the purposes of my earlier post, I used a pretty expansive definition of "preemptive": as long as you take an action (and usually I consider this from the user's perspective of activating/queuing up a power, rather than the hero's perspective of when a power takes place) before the effect you're using is necessary, you're preemptively doing something.
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Technically, that's not the definition of preemptive. I took a look at a few definitions and none of them include anything about the result, reason, or necessity of a preemptive action. They are all about doing something first, and that's pretty much it. Using a past example from this thread, tossing a heal to someone that just jumped into a large group of mobs isn't preemptive. You healed as a result of seeing someone do something many CoH practitioners consider stupid or deadly.
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But from the player's perspective, you can use them preemptively: any time you're anticipating something, you're using a power preemptively. And I think the strongest case that "preemptive heals" exist is the last one that I made, that Regen Aura and Adrenalin Boost are preemptive heals. I don't think in this case that "preemptive" is used controversially; the controversial usage there is "heal", but as a player, that's how I think of the power: I use RA and AB in place of using direct healing powers.
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Now this is extremely nit-picky of me, but looking strictly at the definitions that I found, technically the buffs given at the beginning or mid-mission aren't proactive either. When the team first walked through the doorway to the mission, it was expected that damage would come soon after. There was a reason for the buffer to give those buffs before he/she gave them, so the subsequent buffing wasn't done first. The only preemptive things here are the buffs that some random hero gives you while passing you on the street (a debate on that is also possible though).
Can't believe I'm sitting here at work breaking this word down! This is not important... like... not at all, lol!
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Actually I'm going to disagree with most here and say there is such a thing, involving the empath heals (or therm or any other with a targeted heal). I quite often used to do this on my emp. If I saw a teammate jump into a situation where I was positive they would be taking a lot of damage, I would activate a heal before they actually took the damage. That way, they would be healed immediately after taking the damage.
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This doesn't work reliably due to network and game latency, and isn't actually preemptive. So, you may disagree, but you're wrong. Healing is 100% reactive. Healing before damage is dealt does not mitigate anything.
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Except in the case of powers like absorb pain. AB has a long activation that sometimes it's better to fire it off before the target is even hit if you know or feel that they will be taking a good hit. By the time the heal actually happens, damage already went through and you just healed it off. AB has such a long activation that I've sometimes hit it and by the time it actually hits the target died.
So sometimes timing AB's delay and incoming possible damage is a good tactic to keep someone punching.
So although I agree with you that healing is a reactive action. In the case of AB, if it's fired off first then it's preemptive. It's like taking vitamins. Or taking antihestamin because you know you will get an allergic reaction if you come across X.
It's similar to projectile weapon concept. I can snipe a target at long range, super speed to the target and melee it right about the same time as the projectile hits.
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At any rate, I agree with you that a good definition of "preemptive" is worthwhile in this discussion. For the purposes of my earlier post, I used a pretty expansive definition of "preemptive": as long as you take an action (and usually I consider this from the user's perspective of activating/queuing up a power, rather than the hero's perspective of when a power takes place) before the effect you're using is necessary, you're preemptively doing something.
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Technically, that's not the definition of preemptive. I took a look at a few definitions and none of them include anything about the result, reason, or necessity of a preemptive action. They are all about doing something first, and that's pretty much it. Using a past example from this thread, tossing a heal to someone that just jumped into a large group of mobs isn't preemptive. You healed as a result of seeing someone do something many CoH practitioners consider stupid or deadly.
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One definition I found just now:
preemptive - designed or having the power to deter or prevent an anticipated situation or occurrence;
This matches with what I think is a useful definition of preemptive in the context of CoH (in the sense that other definitions tend to sound like they either don't apply or describe things that aren't worth talking about.) Under this definition, you're doing something first, sure, but you're doing it in anticipation of some other thing happening. The expectation that this other thing is about to happen is critical to it being a preemptive action: usage of a power isn't preemptive unless it preempts something.
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But from the player's perspective, you can use them preemptively: any time you're anticipating something, you're using a power preemptively. And I think the strongest case that "preemptive heals" exist is the last one that I made, that Regen Aura and Adrenalin Boost are preemptive heals. I don't think in this case that "preemptive" is used controversially; the controversial usage there is "heal", but as a player, that's how I think of the power: I use RA and AB in place of using direct healing powers.
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Now this is extremely nit-picky of me, but looking strictly at the definitions that I found, technically the buffs given at the beginning or mid-mission aren't proactive either. When the team first walked through the doorway to the mission, it was expected that damage would come soon after. There was a reason for the buffer to give those buffs before he/she gave them, so the subsequent buffing wasn't done first. The only preemptive things here are the buffs that some random hero gives you while passing you on the street (a debate on that is also possible though).
Can't believe I'm sitting here at work breaking this word down! This is not important... like... not at all, lol!
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I'm not entirely sure where you're going with this argument, because it sounds like you're arguing that if there's a reason to give buffs, it's not a preemptive action. That doesn't make sense to me, since my understanding is that an action is only preemptive if it is taken to proactively counteract a potential future event.
So, technically, according to the definition that seems useful to me, the buffs that a random hero gives you while passing by are possibly not preemptive (since in my experience, they're often given to targets who are just standing around, with no real expectation that the buff will be useful.)
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I was on a pick-up group with my empath when the leader asked me if I had preemptive heals set up. She said that preemptive heals anticipate incoming damage and then activate quickly to counteract the damage. I've never heard of this, and I can't find anything about it here or on the wiki. Does anyone know what preemptive healing is?
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Don't even worry about it... As everyone knows, just put Healing Aura on auto. That's what all the best healorz do.
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That sounds horrific. Glad I waited for CoH, before getting into the MMO shtick.
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That is precisely what I thought when I read it.
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I thought it sounded exciting until it was fully explained. Then it sounded like it was slightly more fun than eating broken glass mixed with tar.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
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Actually I'm going to disagree with most here and say there is such a thing, involving the empath heals (or therm or any other with a targeted heal). I quite often used to do this on my emp. If I saw a teammate jump into a situation where I was positive they would be taking a lot of damage, I would activate a heal before they actually took the damage. That way, they would be healed immediately after taking the damage.
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This doesn't work reliably due to network and game latency, and isn't actually preemptive. So, you may disagree, but you're wrong. Healing is 100% reactive. Healing before damage is dealt does not mitigate anything.
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Except in the case of powers like absorb pain. AB has a long activation that sometimes it's better to fire it off before the target is even hit if you know or feel that they will be taking a good hit. By the time the heal actually happens, damage already went through and you just healed it off. AB has such a long activation that I've sometimes hit it and by the time it actually hits the target died.
So sometimes timing AB's delay and incoming possible damage is a good tactic to keep someone punching.
So although I agree with you that healing is a reactive action. In the case of AB, if it's fired off first then it's preemptive. It's like taking vitamins. Or taking antihestamin because you know you will get an allergic reaction if you come across X.
It's similar to projectile weapon concept. I can snipe a target at long range, super speed to the target and melee it right about the same time as the projectile hits.
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...from here it just sounds like 'AB' is a pretty poor power. In the time of its animation, you could be buffing or blasting.
AB on its face may look like a poor power but like most powers used at the right time can keep a team running more than your sub par damage buff or debuff.
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AB on its face may look like a poor power but like most powers used at the right time can keep a team running more than your sub par damage buff or debuff.
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Buffs and debuffs are always useful at all times in battle. Why not both?
You may not like the answer but the truth of the matter, just like life, the situation will dictate whether it would be better to hit absorb pain, toss out a fortitude, shoot off an attack, get out of splash damage range, move out of line of sight, dog pile rommy, split nitcus, etc.
As an aside, buffs are not always usefull if the team is stnding around doing nothing. Annoying as hell but it does happen depending on the rest of the team.
Nothing is useful if the team is standing around doing nothing. I don't see your point.
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So, technically, according to the definition that seems useful to me, the buffs that a random hero gives you while passing by are possibly not preemptive (since in my experience, they're often given to targets who are just standing around, with no real expectation that the buff will be useful.)
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It's this that will never allow us to agree, which was the irony that I pointed out before. If there is never an agreement on the definition of a term, arguing over when it applies is just useless. Whatever you all decide on this topic is fine with me. I think I'm going to stop with this one. Deliberation has been achieved. Congratulations.
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Nothing is useful if the team is standing around doing nothing. I don't see your point.
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It is probably because Pikachu has slapped you too many times.
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..."Facts" are things that are true...
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I don't think that this is the dictionary definition of the word, nor the scientific version. I'm also thinking that no one has really included that in their posts. Not trying to flame anyone, just sayin'. That's probably not the best starting point for discussion.
How about we leave the term "preemptive healing" out of it and start with a dictionary definition of "preemptive". That being a word that is probably much older and more recognized than the term, it sounds like a better jumping off point. Otherwise, we just might be doomed to the irony of naming an opinion as fact when the owner of said opinion doesn't have a clear definition of the word "fact" anyway.