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Plus I don't think a lot of players would consider another click power to manage all that fun. Adding an ability similar in function to the least popular AT probably isn't the best idea.
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If they didn't feel like managing it, they could ignore it and not loose anything they have now.
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In my opinion any offensive change for Tankers would have to:
-Allow them to be heavy hitting like Brutes and Scrappers.
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Tankers can have an offensive boost without becoming heavy hitters. Heavy hitting is your wish and for you there will be Going Rogue.
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-Make Tanker offense more interesting and distict. Of the melee ATs, Tankers' offensive distinction is that they don't have anything dinstinct. They are Scrappers without the puntuation of Criticals, Stalkers without Assassin's Strike. Brutes without Fury. In a sea of many flavours, they are plain vanilla. At least give them sprinkles.
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And making them heavy hitters "like scrappers or brutes" does not do that, all it does is destroy balance.
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-Have minimal impact on players who like Tankers as is.
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Now you trying to copy and paste from dominators.
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I did not even looked at JBs suggestion but it sounds like his old mega-buildup suggestion, honestly I don't like it if it is that.
If i was given somehow the ability to modify tankers, though, I would somehow modify them to be AoE specialists. They would not be the best at ST damage but they would be the most effective AoE fighter, both endurance and damage wise.
I have brainstormed a bit of a way to do that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Let's hear it! I'm a huge proponent of tankers taking on more of a melee controller role. That, in my opinion, would fit all of the criteria that Johnny listed.
[ QUOTE ]
-Allow them to be heavy hitting like Brutes and Scrappers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heavy hitting does not have to mean more damage. When a Brute or Scrapper hit, they do damage but when a Tanker hits he hits so hard that the blow plows through his intended target and hits others in range.
[ QUOTE ]
-Make Tanker offense more interesting and distict. Of the melee ATs, Tankers' offensive distinction is that they don't have anything dinstinct. They are Scrappers without the puntuation of Criticals, Stalkers without Assassin's Strike. Brutes without Fury. In a sea of many flavours, they are plain vanilla. At least give them sprinkles.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tanker offense becomes more interesting because they will be able to actively manage aggro rather than relying on Taunt, an aura or an invisible game mechanic. Tanker offense becomes more distinct because they will be able to do something no other melee archetype can do.
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-Have minimal impact on players who like Tankers as is.
[/ QUOTE ]
This one is borderline because I think that making tankers more AoE-centric melee controllers will have a huge positive impact for all players.
[ QUOTE ]
-Be conceptually suitable.
[/ QUOTE ]
The canon supports the idea of the heavy hitters taking on large groups of foes single-handedly so melee controller easily fits the concept.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
If i was given somehow the ability to modify tankers, though, I would somehow modify them to be AoE specialists. They would not be the best at ST damage but they would be the most effective AoE fighter, both endurance and damage wise.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I would object to that. Specializing in fighting lots of weaker little guys who can't even really harm you doesn't sound very heroic to me. In fact that sounds very Brute-like. A bully almost.
My view of comic Tankers is they pick the biggest guy in a group and unload on them. They are the heroic big guns on the team. You don't use the large cannon of a military tank to take down the soft targets. They're used to pop the hard targets.
I would favour _Ultimo's idea about damage diffusion in crowds over this. At least that fits with the trait many comic Tankers have of holding back on the weaker guys they could seriously hurt and being able to cut loose on the big bads.
Again I say:
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Comic Brutes get carried away on their anger. Comic Tankers make a tactical decision to kick it up a notch and stop pulling their punches.
Which is something I've been trying to get for CoH Tankers.
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QFT, hit the nail on the head, with a sledge.
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Tankers can have an offensive boost without becoming heavy hitters. Heavy hitting is your wish and for you there will be Going Rogue.
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Blue Brutes are not, and never were, what I am looking for in a heroic heavy hitter, or what I think Tankers should be. See my quote about comic Brutes vs comic Tankers.
Going Rogue is the last thing I ever wanted the devs to do, is more likely to harm Tankers and the only good that could possibly come of it is maybe prompting the developers to do something about Tankers.
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[ QUOTE ]
If i was given somehow the ability to modify tankers, though, I would somehow modify them to be AoE specialists. They would not be the best at ST damage but they would be the most effective AoE fighter, both endurance and damage wise.
I have brainstormed a bit of a way to do that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fiery Melee is already a good example of how to do this.
[ QUOTE ]
Heavy hitting does not have to mean more damage. When a Brute or Scrapper hit, they do damage but when a Tanker hits he hits so hard that the blow plows through his intended target and hits others in range.
[/ QUOTE ]
And when they hit one guy, it's like a sissy slap. How is that being a heavy hitter?
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If i was given somehow the ability to modify tankers, though, I would somehow modify them to be AoE specialists. They would not be the best at ST damage but they would be the most effective AoE fighter, both endurance and damage wise.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I would object to that. Specializing in fighting lots of weaker little guys who can't even really harm you doesn't sound very heroic to me. In fact that sounds very Brute-like. A bully almost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you keep making the assumption that the group is going to be made up of weaker opponents? Most of my tankers live for the times that they are standing amidst a sea of red or purple saying "That all ya got?"
Now add in some more AoE attacks so I can also say "See I can take on 4 or 5 of you at once without even breaking a sweat!" and I am one happy tanker player!
Here's another question. What is the scrapper supposed to be doing while the tanker is still handling all the aggro management, soaking up the damage AND going after the boss? Which, I might add, I do right now anyway with my tankers.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heavy hitting does not have to mean more damage. When a Brute or Scrapper hit, they do damage but when a Tanker hits he hits so hard that the blow plows through his intended target and hits others in range.
[/ QUOTE ]
And when they hit one guy, it's like a sissy slap. How is that being a heavy hitter?
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[/ QUOTE ]
Define sissy slap. How many points of damage represent a sissy slap?
Let me paint you a picture. Brute and Tanker square off against 3 opponents.
The Brute draws back for a roundhouse punch, connects with the side of an opponent's head and said opponent is knocked to the ground, down but not out. Brute then must repeat this action over and over for each opponent he faces.
The Tanker draws back for a roundhouse punch, connects with the side of an opponent's head and said opponent is hit so hard he is knocked sideways into the two other mobs standing next to him and all three drop.
Who hit harder?
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
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Heavy hitting does not have to mean more damage. When a Brute or Scrapper hit, they do damage but when a Tanker hits he hits so hard that the blow plows through his intended target and hits others in range.
[/ QUOTE ]
And when they hit one guy, it's like a sissy slap. How is that being a heavy hitter?
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[/ QUOTE ]
Define sissy slap. How many points of damage represent a sissy slap?
[/ QUOTE ]'Not scrapper damage.'
[ QUOTE ]
Here's another question. What is the scrapper supposed to be doing while the tanker is still handling all the aggro management, soaking up the damage AND going after the boss?
[/ QUOTE ]
Likely in his own mission soloing an AV.
Seriously, he should be clearing the crowds with his faster attacks like a little blender set to 'Mince'. You wanna give someone better AoE? Give it to Scrappers. They're apparently hard up for a team role. Larger crowds are found on teams, which is an area I don't think Tankers have a problem.
Better AoE really wont help Tankers when solo, unless you want to make them better at grinding in hazard zones, which is a goal I don't share.
Wolverine, Daredevil, they fight a bazillion ninjas. Colossus or the Thing take on the giant ninja robot.
EDIT *Ahem*
On who comic Tankers fight:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...avyhitters.jpg
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's another question. What is the scrapper supposed to be doing while the tanker is still handling all the aggro management, soaking up the damage AND going after the boss?
[/ QUOTE ]
Likely in his own mission soloing an AV.
Seriously, he should be clearing the crowds with his faster attacks like a little blender set to 'Mince'. You wanna give someone better AoE? Give it to Scrappers. They're apparently hard up for a team role. Larger crowds are found on teams, which is an area I don't think Tankers have a problem.
Better AoE really wont help Tankers when solo, unless you want to make them better at grinding in hazard zones, which is a goal I don't share.
Wolverine, Daredevil, they fight a bazillion ninjas. Colossus or the Thing take on the giant ninja robot.
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[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, Scrappers don't need a team role. They already have one, melee damage and they do it quite well. No need for yet another melee damage archetype, the job has been filled.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Basically what you're asking for is for Scrappers to be melee AoE, low-to-moderate defence where they are currently melee mostly ST, moderate defence in order to make Tankers melee ST, high defence where they are currently somewhat AoE, high defence.
Of course, making them ST would mean Tankers lose a lot in aggro management. But you don't care about that, do you?
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT *Ahem*
On who comic Tankers fight:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...avyhitters.jpg
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[/ QUOTE ]
For the record, Statesman is an Incarnate and therefore overpowered by player standards.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
That picture looks about right to me. You could easily substitute my Tanker for Statesman in it, or pretty much anyone else's.
Except Johnny's. He says they suck.
[ QUOTE ]
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EDIT *Ahem*
On who comic Tankers fight:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...avyhitters.jpg
.
[/ QUOTE ]
For the record, Statesman is an Incarnate and therefore overpowered by player standards.
[/ QUOTE ]
At your own link, Incarnate is an origin, not at AT. When is the last time Technology or Natural had a bearing on your role or abilities?
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[ QUOTE ]
That picture looks about right to me. You could easily substitute my Tanker for Statesman in it, or pretty much anyone else's.
Except Johnny's. He says they suck.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you tell me how to slot Hand Clap to make it pick up a Boss over my head and break it in half?
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT *Ahem*
On who comic Tankers fight:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...avyhitters.jpg
.
[/ QUOTE ]
For the record, Statesman is an Incarnate and therefore overpowered by player standards.
[/ QUOTE ]
At your own link, Incarnate is an origin, not at AT. When is the last time Technology or Natural had a bearing on your role or abilities?
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[/ QUOTE ]
And that origin is not available to players therefore it makes a poor case for single target, heavy damage tankers.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That picture looks about right to me. You could easily substitute my Tanker for Statesman in it, or pretty much anyone else's.
Except Johnny's. He says they suck.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you tell me how to slot Hand Clap to make it pick up a Boss over my head and break it in half?
.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not all that different from the way you slot Cobra Strike to do the same thing. 
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If i was given somehow the ability to modify tankers, though, I would somehow modify them to be AoE specialists. They would not be the best at ST damage but they would be the most effective AoE fighter, both endurance and damage wise.
I have brainstormed a bit of a way to do that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fiery Melee is already a good example of how to do this.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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That picture looks about right to me. You could easily substitute my Tanker for Statesman in it, or pretty much anyone else's.
Except Johnny's. He says they suck.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can you tell me how to slot Hand Clap to make it pick up a Boss over my head and break it in half?
.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not all that different from the way you slot Cobra Strike to do the same thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I always thought Cobra Strike should have a respectable -res debuff to it.
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[ QUOTE ]
My view of comic Tankers
[/ QUOTE ]
My view of comic tankers is they don't exist, same way as there are no comic blasters, no comic brutes and no comic scrappers or defenders.
These are all things invented by this GAME and things the game are designed around.
This alone makes all comic arguments irrelevant. You can go ahead and keep trying to push that but it wont get you anywhere.
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Can you tell me how to slot Hand Clap to make it pick up a Boss over my head and break it in half?
[/ QUOTE ]
In a comic book representation of a CoH fight, my Tank could definitely pick up a Clockwork Boss and tear it in half.
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Can you tell me how to slot Hand Clap to make it pick up a Boss over my head and break it in half?
[/ QUOTE ]
In a comic book representation of a CoH fight, my Tank could definitely pick up a Clockwork Boss and tear it in half.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah of course. He's like a level 50 and the Clockwork stop at level 20.
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I did not even looked at JBs suggestion but it sounds like his old mega-buildup suggestion, honestly I don't like it if it is that.
If i was given somehow the ability to modify tankers, though, I would somehow modify them to be AoE specialists. They would not be the best at ST damage but they would be the most effective AoE fighter, both endurance and damage wise.
I have brainstormed a bit of a way to do that.