Somewhere on the boards - thought it was here, but I dont' see it - we had another discussion over height and how *it* can't be changed. I believe it, and gender, were two of the things mentioned that pretty much everything else on the character were based off of. So it'd be much *bigger* of an issue than it would first appear.
Essentially, you'd be ripping out the house's foundation to repaint the bathroom.
If it *wasn't* that difficult, I have nothing against it. Don't think I'd *use* it, personally, though.
I could be dead wrong, but I don't think animation concerns are the big problem. The animation system doesn't blow up when you use the various Halloween costumes. While they are static skeletons (as per an old thread of mine), I'm fairly sure they're based on (or extremely similar to) the basic player models.
I think it just has to do with the fact that they're character stats that have always been static.
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I could be dead wrong, but I don't think animation concerns are the big problem. The animation system doesn't blow up when you use the various Halloween costumes. While they are static skeletons (as per an old thread of mine), I'm fairly sure they're based on (or extremely similar to) the basic player models.
I think it just has to do with the fact that they're character stats that have always been static.
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Actually, the entire model is just temporarily displayed as a fixed NPC model (same with the "Midnight visage" power.) The underlying character isn't changed at all. The NPC model is showin without regard to the original player's height or any other setting (sometimes without regard to gender, even.)
I'm talking about the skeletons that determine the animations used. Presumably any problems from switching skeletons would show up there, though I don't really think there'd be any anyway.
I just don't think the engine is so silly that it wouldn't dynamically determine animations based on height/model. It's not like it's referencing a separate library for every character or something.
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I think it just has to do with the fact that they're character stats that have always been static.
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That's likely a large part of it. I know character height is saved to costume files, so it's obviously written down with all the other stats, but it is never loaded when you input a costume file, not even at character creation when height is malleable. What's more, height sometimes goes wild and takes on random values after you load up a costume. If I had to hazard a guess, it's written in several different places, which would make changing it problematic.
Coding aside, there is also the problem of gender-specific badges, such as Man/Woman in Black, as well as all the tags that control $heshe $himher $sirmam and so forth. Granted, if they can deal with side switching, they can likely deal with that, but once again, we've never been given a good answer as to why that's not easily doable the same way BABs took the time to explain why powerset customization wasn't practical and why weapon redraw is the way it is. I wish he'd drop by and explain once. We'll pass it along 
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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I wish he'd drop by and explain once. We'll pass it along
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Me too. I want my Amazing Power Suit wearing Little Girl to be realized!
I highly suspect that IF model changes end up happening, they'll be a total conversion, meaning you can't have one slot be Huge, another Male and another Female. You just do a full switch. At least, that's how I see it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I highly suspect that IF model changes end up happening, they'll be a total conversion, meaning you can't have one slot be Huge, another Male and another Female. You just do a full switch. At least, that's how I see it.
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Would be kind of a waste to do, then.
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I highly suspect that IF model changes end up happening, they'll be a total conversion, meaning you can't have one slot be Huge, another Male and another Female. You just do a full switch. At least, that's how I see it.
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Would be kind of a waste to do, then.
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Which is likely why it hasn't happened. Not much point to making it, as people don't often get their gender wrong at character creation. Full model swaps are one thing, but they don't alter the record of your character in the database. If we haven't been allowed to do it yet, then I'd say altering it is not a trivial matter.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I believe the only way this could be done is a total wipe of your costume options - you can't take a huge model costume, for example, and have it apply to either the male or female models.
You'd have to start from scratch, as far as designing the costume.
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I'd agree that the main thing that has probably prevented the Devs from easily giving us the ability to change our characters' heights or body types has been how they would handle those changes across multiple costume slots. Of the two values it would seem that having different heights would be easier to implement than different body types, but clearly they both aren't trivial.
As far as the consequences of a body type change I'd think it'd be a given that regardless of being able to change costume slots individually or not the costume items of any affected slots would get automatically "generic'd" by the game to apply to the new body type. Being forced to have to recreate a new costume for the new body type would be a small price to pay for the ability to change body types in the first place. 
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And they already did the same thing with the VEATs.
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I'm talking about the skeletons that determine the animations used. Presumably any problems from switching skeletons would show up there, though I don't really think there'd be any anyway.
I just don't think the engine is so silly that it wouldn't dynamically determine animations based on height/model. It's not like it's referencing a separate library for every character or something.
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It's not the skeletons that matter, it's the invisible box the skeleton is in. The size of your avatar box is determined by the model (female, male, huge) and your height. Once this is determined it never changes.
This also determines what sounds you use (jumping grunts, thumping footsteps) and what badges you receive (male or female).
The Halloween temp costumes just project a NPC skeleton in your avatar box. The box itself never changes.
This is why my very short characters can still go under pipes in sewers even though the NPC costume they are wearing is too tall. This is why my female characters can still squeeze through those slim areas between pipes even when they are wearing a Freak Tank costume.
Edit: That said, I remember hearing something about Positron being very excited about the possibility of changing models to go with the new costume change emotes that are coming in i15, or was it in the Science Booster?
Really the question is not IF can be done but WHY would someone want it done?
Personally I have no desire to change my orientation and can not believe anyone would. Sure maybe for RP reasons but umm why. I do not see this ever being done; now more body slider addition I want but this no.
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Really the question is not IF can be done but WHY would someone want it done?
Personally I have no desire to change my orientation and can not believe anyone would. Sure maybe for RP reasons but umm why. I do not see this ever being done; now more body slider addition I want but this no.
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You're missing the point. It's not about changing the gender of a character, it's about changing the model.
As mentioned above: Little girl with a massive suit of power armor.
Other uses:
- Shapeshifters. Can already be done, but not effectively.
- "Legacy" heroes. Heroes chosen by a macguffin passed down from generation to generation. Can already be done, but not effectively.
- Family of heroes. Hard to make a family (out of one character slot) when you can't have a mother, sister, or requisite hulking brute character.
- Speaking of hulking brutes, remember a fellow by the name of Bruce Banner?
As for what I assume you're talking about, transgender characters can already be made, and already exist.
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- Speaking of hulking brutes, remember a fellow by the name of Bruce Banner?
[/ QUOTE ]Not to mention many of the demonic folks running around would probably appreciate the ability to go from normal looking dude to huge hellish abomination. I know I've got one that falls into that category.
As for the anniversary, he didn't say he was excited about it, but he did say he was looking into it. I'd estimate that it would put that feature still at least several Issues out, but the thought is there.
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Yeah, players should not be able to change their gender on a whim. Changing gender is a very long process that requires quite a bit of time and thought, and should not be taken lightly.
However, for RP reasons, I'd like to change one of my toons to a girl so it can marry another one of my toons, as their relationship is currently frowned upon by many in Paragon City.
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Really the question is not IF can be done but WHY would someone want it done?
Personally I have no desire to change my orientation and can not believe anyone would. Sure maybe for RP reasons but umm why. I do not see this ever being done; now more body slider addition I want but this no.
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Maybe I play a shapeshifter who can take any humanoid form?
Maybe I play a werewolf character and want the human form to be a regular model and the wolf form to be the huge model?
Maybe I had ideas for a character when I initially created it that changed over time and though I would rather the character be female now I stick with male because I don't want to reroll my level 50 villain/hero and go through all that leveling again?
There are many reasons to want to change a model besides changing sexual orientation. This is more about concept than being transgender.
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Yeah, players should not be able to change their gender on a whim.
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Yes, they should. See above for concept reasons.
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Yeah, players should not be able to change their gender on a whim.
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Yes, they should. See above for concept reasons.
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I'm thinking, hopefully, that he was making a distinction between the player behind the keyboard vs. the character they play in an effort to be humorous.
There's no reason though, other than technical (which may be a deal breaker), that a players characters shouldn't be able to change gender between male, huge, or female.
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As far as the consequences of a body type change I'd think it'd be a given that regardless of being able to change costume slots individually or not the costume items of any affected slots would get automatically "generic'd" by the game to apply to the new body type. Being forced to have to recreate a new costume for the new body type would be a small price to pay for the ability to change body types in the first place.
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One thing to note about multiple models for the same character is how costumes are saved. Granted, how they're saved to .costume files doesn't HAVE to be representative of how they're stored server-side, but I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that they're very, very close. Character model is mentioned once, then every piece thereafter is loaded for that model. Piece names that don't exist for the given model (or aren't unlocked) cause an error that prevents the costume from loading. So much so, in fact, that while the game can attempt and alter the costume file, it is literally UNABLE to load a costume file that has items it cannot load. Whether that's a limitation or a safety feature (used to have pieces that were there in name, but didn't have anything to them, leading to invisible torsos and so on) I cannot say, but that's very likely part of what's keeping this.
Now, it could be argued that the model could simply be written into every costume slot, but one has to remember that just because something is saved to a .costume file, it doesn't mean it's actually ever loaded. One model's costume will fail to load on another model. Height is always saved, but never loaded. The fact of the matter is that, from the looks of things, where our costume definitions are saved, model and height simply aren't part of the data, and are instead saved in a completely different place where they can be referenced by a whole host of different systems. I've no doubt at least SOME part of the animations system references character height (or rather, scale) and it's more than obvious that both the badge system and the $ variable system reference character model. It's also been said that while the Male model has its own pigg file, both females and huge share the same pigg file when it comes to costume items.
All of these assumptions and suppositions are why I'd really like BABs to come and set us all straight.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Honestly I have no problem with them adding this to the game.
As long as its not gonna be a drain on resources and cause them to hold off on things that would effect more people.
I personally think its a complete waste of time. I mean come on, don't want to reroll your 50 to make him a her? What else are you gonna do in this game? This game is all about rerolling and making another alt or 12.
That would be really creepy, when you think about it. also you couldnt do that, because you might need a name change.
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I know this has been suggested before but I never really saw why it is such an issue?
I have wanted to change the gender of a few of my toons before but with the current discussions surounding Night Widows and Forts, I felt that it was worthy of another debate.
Id really like to be able to get this done, I honestly feel that it shouldnt be any harder than a trip to the tailor, but even if it cost a couple of bucks OR you can do it through a recipe drop.
What do you guys think? I NEEDZ MEH A SECS CHAINGE!
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