Ascension of Level 50 characters...
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-05-26 13:37 in Suggestions and Ideas
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how about you respond to some of the other posters in here. and while your at it get it through your head that there is no amount of anything that will encourage people to do this.
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If someone offered you $5,000 for your level 50, would you really reject them? How bout $50,000? Don't tell me there's nothing which would encourage you to do this...cause if that's the case you're not thinking straight.
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like i said in one of my posts in here, this is an anti-farming thread in disguise. please take it to the appropriate thread in the City Life section.
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And, like I said earlier, this was never meant as an anti-farming thread. It was a suggestion based on the presupposition that farming is a negative aspect of the game. If you didn't think that was the case, then you should have stopped reading once you found yourself disagreeing with the initial assumptions. That is, after all, why they were included.
you could offer me all the money in the world and i still would not give up my 50's. I enjoy playing my 50's no matter what i'm doing with them. now give me proof that "farming" has a negative affect on the game. "farming" is not the only thing to do when you hit 50. plain and simple. and for someone who said that they see no reason to have a 50 you prob should stop playing the game then. how many times can you go through the content before you get bored reading the same stories over and over and over and over.... seems to me you would find this more annoying then having a 50.
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Well, this shows a pretty limited view of the game.
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As opposed to the view that since you don't enjoy taking 50s out for missions, no one else should.
Not limited at all.
People are entitled to like or dislike what others do (farming, playing 50s, whatever) - though I reserve the right ti disagree when they make a public statement about the moral values, or lack thereof, in other people's choices.
However, the suggestions that the game undergo major changes, and limit the options of other players because of their notions - sorry, these kinds of things need to be resisted to the utmost and refuted in the strongest possible terms.
So, no, I must disagree with your proposal.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
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I'm not giving forcing anyone to do this, but I am attempting to figure out what sort of compensation would be enough to encourage you to do this.
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If your idea necessitates that mitigation be made to the players for something the Devs didn't need to do, then perhaps it is just a bad idea?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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If someone offered you $5,000 for your level 50, would you really reject them? How bout $50,000? .
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Of course, unlike most farming and other playstyles of which you disapprove, that WOULD be an explicit violation of the EULA.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
Also, Amish, there is nothing realistic that the Devs could give me that would make me accept this idea. The Devs aren't going to give me $5,000 for shelving a level 50.
My point for shelving my level 50 is well beyond what the Devs would ever be willing to give me, and every other person who has a level 50. So let's just get that out of the way.
Now, if you could address the many shortfalls this idea has, you might actually gain some traction on this (likely very little, but you'd have a better chance than you have now).
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
To quote Aett, save with more emphasis [u]HELL NO![u]
All this will do is lead people to turning off XP at 49 and never taking such a stupid death sentence for their toon.
While the game is about the JOURNEY to 50, actually BEING at 50 can be kinda awesome too. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labors in levelling that toon up.
Moreover, with the invention system, a characters powers won't necessarily stop growing and evolving once they merely hit 50.
Heck, I JUST slotted my Grav/Kin with two Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag Hold (not in the same power), and received a neat surprise when the Electric Fence animation came up.
And no, I don't want a cool bribe for taking away my toon. There's already enough cool things in the game (and more being added all the time). So this is a valueless proposition.
As for "free month of CoH"? HUH? This would be a massive money-losing proposition, ESPECIALLY the way people can level up in a few days/weeks (prior to the meow removal, this would have been ruinous).
/unsigned
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Well, this shows a pretty limited view of the game.
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No. This shows that some people want a choice between characters and myriad levels of the game. Including their L50 world-beaters.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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If someone offered you $5,000 for your level 50, would you really reject them? How bout $50,000? Don't tell me there's nothing which would encourage you to do this...cause if that's the case you're not thinking straight.
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Let's change it to this...
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If someone offered you $5,000 to sleep with the worlds most repulsive man (500 pounds, oozing sores, lazy eye, body oder, webbed feet, cleft palet, six fingers on the right hand, four on the left, dutch), would you really reject them? How bout $50,000? Don't tell me there's nothing which would encourage you to do this...cause if that's the case you're not thinking straight.
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And I mean this as more than a throw away joke or frivilous statement.
The rewording of your own statement is intended to hilight a few points, specifically how the original statement sounded; insane would be my take.
And the other point is that the increase of prices (reward) does nothing actually to make the original thing being offered more desirable in itself.
Some might take up the offer at a great enough price point but never because what they are getting is something anyone would actually want.
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now give me proof that "farming" has a negative affect on the game.
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Well, if you want to hi-jack the thread and turn it into a Anti-farming conversation, I'm game.
Farming has a negative effect on the game for one very simple reason. It encourages players to do the same thing over and over. The rewards for repeating the same mission are greater, and the risks less, than for exploring the game as a whole. That's negative because it's unsustainable. If you're not actually experiencing the game itself, you're just playing that one mission over and over, what's the point in having the rest of the game at all?
As far as I'm concerned, all the proof you need is a level 31 Warshade asking other players where Striga Island is. But, if you want additional "proof"? Just read some of the stories in this thread.
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat...;gonew=1#UNREAD
All your precious level 50's cease to have meaning when players who've been in the game for less than a month, and who've only explored 1% of the game content, have multiple characters of that level.
But, I repeat, this was never meant to be a discussion of whether farming is good or bad. I'm presupposing that it IS bad, and based on that assumption, I'm suggesting a possible resolution.
Of course, if you like farming, then you're gonna hate the solution. You don't want to lose the ability to level characters up fast without work.
I've seen some bad ideas on this forum but this the first one that I ever felt the need to say, HELL NO!
Suriel- Scrapper MA/SR
Star Centurion- Peacebringer
War Forger- Blaster EB/Devices
Dedjinn- Stalker CL/DA
Cycnus- Mastermind Mercs/Traps
first off i am not trying to thread jack. your main purpose of your original post was anti-farming. you have a very obscure idea of what "farming" is. but so that this thread doesn't get locked down withthe response of "please keep all farming threads in the appropriate 2 threads about it", as said before when you take away what the goal of the game is you might as well shut it down. if you don't like the game go elsewhere. and before you leave, can i has you stuffs?
Look, I realize that the nature of the forums is that someone suggests something, and then all the old guard show up to shoot down the idea.
What if level 50 characters were moved to a separate serve, filled with exclusive level 50 content. What if they were given a place where they could really explore their potential? Would that be enough of a carrot to lure you away from the mundane, repetitive nature of farming?
Actually if this was a forum game for: Suggest the worst game idea ever.
This could win.
Suriel- Scrapper MA/SR
Star Centurion- Peacebringer
War Forger- Blaster EB/Devices
Dedjinn- Stalker CL/DA
Cycnus- Mastermind Mercs/Traps
From Hyperstrike:
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All this will do is lead people to turning off XP at 49 and never taking such a stupid death sentence for their toon.
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I had forgotten about this. This idea would do NOTHING to Farmers, who could just stop at level 49 and continue doing whatever they were doing before. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that a fair share of normal players (including me) would do that too.
From Amish:
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Farming has a negative effect on the game for one very simple reason. It encourages players to do the same thing over and over.
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Okay, now explain why THAT is a bad thing in and of itself. This game, whether you like it or not, is mainly doing the same thing over and over again, with little actual variation, except visually. Most enemy groups don't require a huge change in tactics. So this whole game is literally one big farm. The problem is, it's an ENJOYABLE farm. And to some, farming the same mission over and over again is little different than farming different missions over and over again.
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The rewards for repeating the same mission are greater, and the risks less, than for exploring the game as a whole.
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No, it's really not. It depends on the particular mission, but the rewards and risks are EXACTLY the same if you're doing that mission once or if you're doing it 100 times.
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That's negative because it's unsustainable. If you're not actually experiencing the game itself, you're just playing that one mission over and over, what's the point in having the rest of the game at all?
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Some people farm for different reasons. Ignoring those differences, and lumping them all into one category, is hugely negative to your point. Some people farm to get cash for new alts, which is fine in terms of stability. Some people PL to get into PvP levels, which is fine in terms of stability. There are forms of PLing and Farming which have no impact on stability.
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As far as I'm concerned, all the proof you need is a level 31 Warshade asking other players where Striga Island is. But, if you want additional "proof"? Just read some of the stories in this thread.
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PLing newbies is indeed bad. It has a bad impact on the game. But that is not all PLing, let alone even a fraction of farming.
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All your precious level 50's cease to have meaning when players who've been in the game for less than a month, and who've only explored 1% of the game content, have multiple characters of that level.
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Them having multiple level 50s does nothing to minimize the fun I can still have with mine.
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I'm presupposing that it IS bad, and based on that assumption, I'm suggesting a possible resolution.
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Here is your problem. You're basing your assumption on a presupposition. If your presupposition is incorrect, then your suggestion is unnecessary. THAT is why people are attacking your presupposition. If they can prove that your suggestion is unnecessary, then the discussion of the specifics of the suggestion can be ignored, because they're based on a faulty presupposition.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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now give me proof that "farming" has a negative affect on the game.
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Well, if you want to hi-jack the thread and turn it into a Anti-farming conversation, I'm game.
Farming has a negative effect on the game for one very simple reason. It encourages players to do the same thing over and over. The rewards for repeating the same mission are greater, and the risks less, than for exploring the game as a whole. That's negative because it's unsustainable. If you're not actually experiencing the game itself, you're just playing that one mission over and over, what's the point in having the rest of the game at all?
As far as I'm concerned, all the proof you need is a level 31 Warshade asking other players where Striga Island is. But, if you want additional "proof"? Just read some of the stories in this thread.
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat...;gonew=1#UNREAD
All your precious level 50's cease to have meaning when players who've been in the game for less than a month, and who've only explored 1% of the game content, have multiple characters of that level.
But, I repeat, this was never meant to be a discussion of whether farming is good or bad. I'm presupposing that it IS bad, and based on that assumption, I'm suggesting a possible resolution.
Of course, if you like farming, then you're gonna hate the solution. You don't want to lose the ability to level characters up fast without work.
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Farming and Powerlevelling are not the same thing. Let's get that out of the way first. I could, quite honestly, be accused of "powerleveling" some of my Khelds just by loading up with Lucks and running them through Perez from level 8 or so, unleashing AOEs. I've done it with my Fire blaster in Dark Astoria. Not from wanting to PL... but because melting zombies en masse is *fun.*
Farming doesn't encourage players to do the same thing over and over. While farming, at a very basic definition, IS running the same thing over and over, you're putting it the same way as "Coughing encourages people to get sick." No, sick people (depending on the illness) cough. People who are farming repeat the same thing over and over.
Also, the rewards for repeating the same mission are not necessarily greater - by farming (and resetting,) you miss out on end of mission XP, end of arc XP, and the drops they give. On the flip side, those people farming it have steady income and still get chances FOR drops on mobs they're comfortable with.
The point of having the rest of the game? *Not everyone farms.* What's the point of having PVP zones if you like PVE? Well, others like PVP. What's the point of having the RWZ if your characters would never run coop? Yet others do enjoy it.
As for my 50s having meaning - I don't get meaning from having them be 50s. Their meaning is for what *I* have gone through with them on the trip to 50 and after, from memories of playing, from RP with them, from what they can do in certain groups.
Your idea is not being disagreed with because anyone likes farming. It's being disagreed with because it's not particularly good - with the rebuttals given in my first reply, in my case.
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Look, I realize that the nature of the forums is that someone suggests something, and then all the old guard show up to shoot down the idea.
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That is not the nature of this forum. The nature of this forum is to agree with suggestions we agree with, and argue against suggestions that we don't agree with. The 'old guard' is nothing. I have disagreed with every 'old guard' member there is on this forum at some point or another.
That does nothing to prove that your idea is anything but bad. We've listed several reasons why it's bad, and you have yet to refute them or even argue against them. If your idea cannot hold water, then it's a bad idea.
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What if level 50 characters were moved to a separate serve, filled with exclusive level 50 content. What if they were given a place where they could really explore their potential? Would that be enough of a carrot to lure you away from the mundane, repetitive nature of farming?
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Once again, there is no reason to do this. After that is acknowledged, then we can deal with the fact that we'd have two different code bases to deal with, twice the testing time on new content, and twice the bug finding and dealing with times just because you think that this will stop farming, and not just pissing of the playerbase.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Look, I realize that the nature of the forums is that someone suggests something, and then all the old guard show up to shoot down the idea.
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Incorrect. You have an idea with many issues, which are getting pointed out and argued over. You can either take that, adjust the idea or respond with counterarguments to the points brought up, or take it as a personal attack and act... well, like this.
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What if level 50 characters were moved to a separate serve, filled with exclusive level 50 content. What if they were given a place where they could really explore their potential? Would that be enough of a carrot to lure you away from the mundane, repetitive nature of farming?
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Again, YOU ASSUME FARMING.
And no, it wouldn't, as I like playing my 50s with my friends characters, helping THEM get the last few levels to 50, or exemping down for TFs, creating IOs for the lowbies with the INF I have and *everything else* I do with them, and a "separate 50 server" would, IMHO, be a lousy idea, both for the lockout of *everyone else* and for having to have its own codebase.
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I've thought long and hard about a big enough word to express my proper amount of displeasure in regards to the original topic of the thread, that being the removal of all level 50 characters.
And I can say with scientific certainty that there just isn't one big enough to quite accurately state my negative feelings towards this suggestion, and I am left therefore with a very inadequate 'No [censored] way'.
(QR)
I enjoy playing my level 50s. For me to have reached level 50 on a character, I had to invest a lot of time and energy and in some cases emotion into it. I've thought of a name I like, a powerset. I've played with the costumes, experimented with different powers, respec'd it, played with slotting. I like to do ship raids and strike and task forces and trials and flashbacks. I like malefactoring down to play with friends, I like lackeying them up to play with me. I like hanging around in different zones and helping people, sometimes I like passing out some of the infamy I've aquired. I like running the level 50 missions to earn infamy to buy the perfect enhancement for my sweetie. I like playing stories in the mission architect. I like how it feels to steamroll through missions, to finalize a build, to PvP.
I can't support an idea which will take away any of that. Nor do I agree with your assumptions on why it would be needed.
I also loathe ratings by other players. I'm not interested in popularity contests. I play for my enjoyment, not the enjoyment of others.
Oh, and nice preemptive strike:
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I realize that this idea may be unpopular, and I fully expect many of the board regulars to get their knickers in a twist of the idea, but it does seem like it would be a solution for some of the games current woes.
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Your statement is meant to invalidate any disagreement. My dislike of your suggestion is for valid reasons, not reflective of the state of my undergarments.
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Farming has a negative effect on the game for one very simple reason. It encourages players to do the same thing over and over.
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Okay, now explain why THAT is a bad thing in and of itself. This game, whether you like it or not, is mainly doing the same thing over and over again, with little actual variation, except visually.
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The best way to explain this is with an analogy.
If you're reading a book, and you come to a page that you really like, and you choose to read that page over and over again, that's fine. It's a little banal, but it's fine. However, if you read that page over and over, you're opting not to actually read the book. No one can argue that you are still reading, cause you are, but you're missing out on the intention of the book.
Power leveling (and to a lesser extent, all farming) is even worse than this, because it's essentially reading the same page over and over again, and then claiming you've read the book. Plus, since this is a group activity, it's almost like ripping the pages out of the book, since the majority of the game content is best played as part of a team.
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The rewards for repeating the same mission are greater, and the risks less, than for exploring the game as a whole.
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No, it's really not. It depends on the particular mission, but the rewards and risks are EXACTLY the same if you're doing that mission once or if you're doing it 100 times.
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Players who join a power leveling farm can often level up without landing a single blow, or offering a single buff or debuff. They can repeat the same mission over and over, ad nauseum, without having to negotiate the non-mission game world (an often dangerous place). The advent of AE farming means that players can get everything they need in one place, and even get mission-end bonuses to boot.
All the leveling and stuff of the actual game, but with none of the dangers.
Please, for the love of god, stop confusing PLing and Farming.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
again, take your anti-farming suggestion to the place it is meant to be. in the City Life: CoH & CoV general discussions section in the "farming" thread that Mod8 started. you have not given one actual reason why this would be a good idea other then your obsured assumptions of "farming".
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Farming has a negative effect on the game for one very simple reason. It encourages players to do the same thing over and over.
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Okay, now explain why THAT is a bad thing in and of itself. This game, whether you like it or not, is mainly doing the same thing over and over again, with little actual variation, except visually.
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The best way to explain this is with an analogy.
If you're reading a book, and you come to a page that you really like, and you choose to read that page over and over again, that's fine. It's a little banal, but it's fine. However, if you read that page over and over, you're opting not to actually read the book. No one can argue that you are still reading, cause you are, but you're missing out on the intention of the book.
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Counter-analogy.
As I look at my bookshelf, I have many books. Some biographies, some histories, some fiction, some reference.
One of my other hobbies is building models. There are a few aircraft that, due to history and variety of users, I build quite a few of. Therefore, I *do* refer to specific pages over and over again without regard to the rest of the book. "What serial numbers were in range, where's that color chart," and the like. It's what those books were designed for.
Not all books are novels.
Not all 50s farm, or PL/were PL'd.
Not all farms are PL farms.
how about you respond to some of the other posters in here. and while your at it get it through your head that there is no amount of anything that will encourage people to do this. like i said in one of my posts in here, this is an anti-farming thread in disguise. please take it to the appropriate thread in the City Life section.