how to make the perfect SC build....
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2009-05-25 18:43 in Everything about PvP
Another question comes to me now, I am wondering if theres a quick guide to procs anywhere. a way to look at all proc IO's available. and their details , like chances to go off, and how often its checked, how much dmg or w/e they do. This would be great for someone like me to catch up on.
1) True. Level 33 is the sweet spot.
2) IO sets only apply if used in the powers that are active in a given zone. Sets put into level 32 powers and above will not work in SC regardless of the IO level, so you might as well slot them higher. The exception to this is purple sets. Those are good at any level.
3) Any slots in a power will work if that power is available, regardless of when those slots were put into the power.
4) Purple IO are only available to bo slotted at 50. I have heard of purples dropping at lower levels, but they can't be slotted until 50 regardless.
Check ParagonWiki for sets and bonuses available.
Ant covered most of it.
Two points tho, procs are not the same as uniques. A unique like a Celerity:stealth, for instance, doesn't matter the lvl, as long as it's slotted into a pre-30 power. Since there is no difference in the benefit granted from this power that is dependent on lvl, grab the cheapest one you can find. Impatient people will pay a premium for lower level one's cuz they want it sooner, and don't wanna wait until the 40-50 range where you can buy these things for a song.
Also, there are *new* pvp-recipes that are gained via pvp-defeats. These work like purps, in that they will mal to any level, and they have 2 different kinds of set bonuses dependent on whether you are in a pvp or a pve zone. These are stil fetching premium prices on the ww/bm atm, but the bonuses all seem a lil more well-thought out than most of the purps, or other sets imho, and are very desireable. They pay attention to ED and don't waste enh values.
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
in a nutshell slot lvl 50 purples and lvl 50 PvP IOs slot lvl 50 regular IOs. Next slot lvl 33 IOs not nessisarily for procs. this way you will get all the benifits in SC. Just dont roll a gimped toon.
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Just dont roll a gimped toon.
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No such thing. (comparitively speaking).
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
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2) IO sets only apply if used in the powers that are active in a given zone. Sets put into level 32 powers and above will not work in SC regardless of the IO level, so you might as well slot them higher. The exception to this is purple sets. Those are good at any level.
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I'm pretty sure that is untrue. Sets slotted in powers past level 30 will work in SC as long as the IO's are 33 and below. I have a few SC toons and the sets slotted in powers 30+ still work there.
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2) IO sets only apply if used in the powers that are active in a given zone. Sets put into level 32 powers and above will not work in SC regardless of the IO level, so you might as well slot them higher. The exception to this is purple sets. Those are good at any level.
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I'm pretty sure that is untrue. Sets slotted in powers past level 30 will work in SC as long as the IO's are 33 and below. I have a few SC toons and the sets slotted in powers 30+ still work there.
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Correct, it's the level of the IO set bonuses that matter.
I can confirm that powers gained after level 30 slotted with level 33 IO set bonuses will gain the beenfit while in SC. This applies to both set bonuses and individual IO bonuses (like LOTG +recharge.)
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2) IO sets only apply if used in the powers that are active in a given zone. Sets put into level 32 powers and above will not work in SC regardless of the IO level, so you might as well slot them higher. The exception to this is purple sets. Those are good at any level.
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I'm pretty sure that is untrue. Sets slotted in powers past level 30 will work in SC as long as the IO's are 33 and below. I have a few SC toons and the sets slotted in powers 30+ still work there.
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Correct, it's the level of the IO set bonuses that matter.
I can confirm that powers gained after level 30 slotted with level 33 IO set bonuses will gain the beenfit while in SC. This applies to both set bonuses and individual IO bonuses (like LOTG +recharge.)
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You're wrong. I absolutely promise you they do not work. The exceptions being the already mentioned purple sets, PvP specific sets and certain uniques. Those will work at any level.
As a note, there is a bug of sorts that allows some effects to carry over when zoning. If you are checking your numbers when you first enter a zone you will see numbers that are not meant to apply or are stacked from the previos zone. Wait at least two minutes for any previous applications to wear off before checking real numbers.
If you are still experiencing those effects, please take a screen shot. I'm sure we would all love to see it.
Maybe I'm just thinking of the LOTG +recharge IOs? It's been awhile but I do remember confirming those at least do work. I've got them slotted into powers after level 30 but the IOs are all 33 or lower in level.
I'll have to double check the actual set bonuses. Don't break your promise, I don't want to have to go all the way to SC to check and find out you are wrong 
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You're wrong. I absolutely promise you they do not work. The exceptions being the already mentioned purple sets, PvP specific sets and certain uniques. Those will work at any level.
As a note, there is a bug of sorts that allows some effects to carry over when zoning. If you are checking your numbers when you first enter a zone you will see numbers that are not meant to apply or are stacked from the previos zone. Wait at least two minutes for any previous applications to wear off before checking real numbers.
If you are still experiencing those effects, please take a screen shot. I'm sure we would all love to see it.
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Yes..they work that way. I slot powers that I get in my 40s so that the set bonuses work in Sirens Call (+HP for example). I've done this on *many* toons. And the bonuses remain for the *entire* time I am in the zone.
I'm not going to post a screenshot b/c it is easy enough for you to prove it to yourself (test server).
It's not working in the way the devs explained it to us originally...but 4 slotting Eradication in your level 49 power will give you +2.25% HPs in Siren's Call as long as the IOs are level 33 or lower.
Well wow. That goes 100% against what I've believed and been told by ALL my friends....ever since IO's came out.
I didn't believe it at first.
Best thing you can do is have your level 50 buy 2 IOs from the same set (pick something with a set bonus that is easy to spot when you open your combat attributes window). Copy your 50 to test and then slot the IOs in your level 49 power.
If both IOs are level 28 or lower the set bonus will appear in BB (I think you are 25 in BB so +3=level 28)....actually the set bonus will appear in every PvP zone.
If both IOs are levels 29 to 33 then the set bonus will appear in SC, WB, and RV.
34 - 41: WB and RV
42+: RV only
I always get confused with the zone level ranges (I'm always in SC), so they may be off. But the point is, if I slot a power like Elude with IOs from the same set (level 33 or lower) then I can get that bonus in SC.
<QR>
Use Sonic/ or /Sonic, make him look like a chicken and call him the Gamecock?
Wait... that's a different SC. Carry on.
Aside: USC vs UCLA? Gamecocks vs Trojans? It almost writes itself.
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2) IO sets only apply if used in the powers that are active in a given zone. Sets put into level 32 powers and above will not work in SC regardless of the IO level, so you might as well slot them higher. The exception to this is purple sets. Those are good at any level.
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I'm pretty sure that is untrue. Sets slotted in powers past level 30 will work in SC as long as the IO's are 33 and below. I have a few SC toons and the sets slotted in powers 30+ still work there.
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Correct, it's the level of the IO set bonuses that matter.
I can confirm that powers gained after level 30 slotted with level 33 IO set bonuses will gain the beenfit while in SC. This applies to both set bonuses and individual IO bonuses (like LOTG +recharge.)
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You're wrong. I absolutely promise you they do not work.
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Well, here is the proof that you are indeed wrong.
Picture of level 33 IO's slotted in powers after level 30
Picture of my toons sets, combat attributes, and grayed out powers that the 33 IO's are slotted in while in Sirens Call
I went to the test server to try it out and you do keep the bonuses even if the powers are over 30.
Antigonus!!
You broke your promise to me!
KHAAAAAAAAAN!!
Well damn....that's good to know. Thanks guys.
Guess I have to reslot some stuff.
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Antigonus!!
You broke your promise to me!
KHAAAAAAAAAN!!
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I logged on my Ill/Storm Controller that has a Call to Arms (lvl 30) set in Tornado (lvl 35 power).
He did have the bonuses in Sirens Call.
I was indeed wrong, however I think this should be carefully thought out before large amounts of money is spent. Something changed along the way because it was not always this way. Considering that is goes contrary to everything we have seen in the past and also to everything the devs have told us about how IO sets are supposed to work, I would guess this is a bug of some sort and is likely to change. Be carefull of what you choose to spend your game money on because those bonuses might be gone with the next update.
That being said...I need to hit the market...
Oh and also...
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
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Well damn....that's good to know. Thanks guys.
Guess I have to reslot some stuff.
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u knew that max ;P
changes to procs - at least I thought there was - a level 50 lotg +7.5% global recharge will not work in bb, sc, wb only rv and arena shw matches. It's why lower level lotg procs go for the price of a human kidney.
so Slotting goes if your building for sc
purples and pvp ios first, they do not exempt.
proc ios and set bonus ios - 33
regular ios in rest.
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Antigonus!!
You broke your promise to me!
KHAAAAAAAAAN!!
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I logged on my Ill/Storm Controller that has a Call to Arms (lvl 30) set in Tornado (lvl 35 power).
He did have the bonuses in Sirens Call.
I was indeed wrong, however I think this should be carefully thought out before large amounts of money is spent. Something changed along the way because it was not always this way. Considering that is goes contrary to everything we have seen in the past and also to everything the devs have told us about how IO sets are supposed to work, I would guess this is a bug of some sort and is likely to change. Be carefull of what you choose to spend your game money on because those bonuses might be gone with the next update.
That being said...I need to hit the market...
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Well it was this way since around i10 because I've had my toons slotted for SC since around that time. Seeing IO's came out in i9 I can safely assume they've been working that way since IO's were released.
As far as it being a bug, I doubt it. PvPers aren't the only ones that use this technique. I have a few PvE builds that use it for running TF, Trials, Ouro flashbacks, ect. I dont see it being the problem you're making it out to be. In fact I'd even go as far as saying its WAI, and if it's not it should be. Seems like a fair trade to me, gimp your numbers to get the set bonuses you want when you exemp.
Ok after giving it some more thought, it really bothered me that what we were seeing was so different from what the devs have told us about how IOs are supposed to work.
So I went back and did some more testing.
I logged on my lvl 45 Ill/Storm Controller again and checked the real numbers. He has 36% bonus recharge from sets in PvE at level 45. All of the sets that give bonuses are level 33 and below. This includes the one Call to Arms set that is in Tornado, a lvl 35 power, which provides 6.25% recharge bonus. I stood outside the Sirens Call gate in Steel Canyon and cast two powers multiple times and checked the times with a stop watch. I then went into Sirens Call and repeated the castings.
Freezing Rain:
1 minute base recharge.
36.99 sec recharge with 62.2% slotting
30.32 sec recharge avg. in Steel Canyon
33.22 sec recharge avg in Sirens Call
Phantom Army:
4 minute base recharge
2 minutes 30 sec recharge with 59.8% slotting
2 min 3 sec recharge in Steel Canyon
2 min 15 sec recharge in Sirens Call
I will do these same tests on other characters after some reslotting, but it seems pretty clear to me that the character is not getting the bonus 6.25% recharge bonus from the Call to Arms set when in Sirens Call, even if the real numbers feature says he is.
In short, it appears that the real numbers are not accurate.
I don't think the real numbers have ever been accurate when it came to set bonuses and exemp'ing.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
I also recall this issue (but would be a real pain for me to duplicate) with dual builds. At one time on test I had both a widow and solider fully outifitted with <40 sets even on all the 40+ powers on both alternate builds. I would exemp into Warburg and was still showing via real numbers, the set bonuses from both builds. But only a few minutes playing verified that those real numbers were incorrect, and that I was only getting the bonuses from a single build and the sets in powers under 38.
Anecdotal, sure, and I never saved any hard data, so I respect what Ant is trying to back up with clear data, and anxiously await his results, but if I was a betting man, I'd lay money that you are *NOT* getting bonuses from exemp'd out of powers.
If you can't use them in SC, you ain't getting them bonuses. No matter what level you're slotting in those 32+ powers.
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
So, im new back to pvp, after along stint of not playing coh and im about to make my alt spec on my stalker specifically for Sirens Call. ALOT of questions came up, some answered, and some not. I wanted to verify the answers i've gotten, and hopefully get the unanswered questions... answered.
So, in no particular order, heres some of the facts I was given.
1) your IO's(sets) should be lvl 33 for sirens call, because it puts you to an effective lvl 30, and no powers above that lvl will work, you will get deminishing returns on the IO's and bonuses from any IO above lvl 33.
2) even though powers above lvl 30 are inactive, if you slot them all with lvl 33 io's the set bonuses will still apply. ( this REALLY throws a monkey wrench into build planning when your new, or new back. I can see why alot of new people dont pvp much. Or build good toons.
3) slots you add to powers you've chosen between 1-30, even if added AFTER 30, still work just fine. but remember, keep the IO's lvl 33, these might be hard to find. alot of people settle with 30's.
4) purple IO's and proc* IO's work at maximum lvl regardless, so best to use 50's for those.
I may have moer questions, thoughts to add later. my brain is going mushy.
* A proc is a "chance to do" blah blah blah.....