how to make the perfect SC build....
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2009-05-25 18:43 in Everything about PvP
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Anecdotal, sure, and I never saved any hard data,
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Please do some actual testing before posting.
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No u.
You've provided a link that simply doesn't apply to the topic we're now discussing and highlighted something that has no bearing.
No testing of the actual topic of yer own. This thread has called out a discrepancy about how its *supposed to work* and how it's *showing* and how it actually is.
Prove me wrong.
Gawd I'd feel really stupid if I were you. But I'm not you, and I'd imagine yer used to it, so . . .
When you read back and figure out that we aren't talking about exemplar values of enh, and are instead talking about set bonuses of powers that are not available once exemplared, please do feel free to weigh in with yer *thoughts*. But:
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Please do some actual reading before posting.
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LMAO
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
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2) Diminishing Returns affects +recharge. If you are going to test +recharge then you need to account for DR if you are in a PvP zone. Test using the O-portal if you want to investigate +rech without the hassle of DR.
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PvP zones use a different set of rules for powers than PvE zones. I didn't use Oro because I didn't want to compromise the test by using the powers in a way that was not consistant with the intended use.
I took a Sheild/SS Tank to test and stripped him down of all enhancements except for a lvl 33 Obliteration set slotted into Foot Stomp that he has at lvl 38. Obliteration give a 5% recharge bonus. Same test as before. I cast Sheild Charge and Active Defense multiple times and averaged the times both inside and outside Sirens Call. Both powers were unslotted.
Sheild CHarge:
90 sec base recharge.
85 sec in Steel Canyon with 5% recharge bonus
85 sec in Sirens Call with 5% recharge bonus
Active Defense:
3 min 20 sec base recharge
3 min 10 sec recharge in Steel with 5% bonus
3 min 10 recharge in Sirens with 5% bonus
It looks like Fallen hit it on the head with DR affecting my other tests on live.
I'm convinced. It would appear that sets do in fact give bonuses from powers that are not available provided the sets are of the appropriate level. This is rather enlightening. Also a bit disconcerting considering we were told by the devs that this was not how it was supposed to work. I guess it just demonstrates again that they have no clue how their game works.
I'm not sure why people think it should not work. Just because you cannot access fire imps at SC level should have no bearing on the set bonuses from ios placed in that power if they are 33 or below in level. The only things you cannot get from non accessable powers is chance fors (chance for + recharge etc). What I don't get is why some procs like LOTG +7.5% recharges don't work in sc level unless they are 33 or below but Numinas, Miracles and Perf Shifters do.
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2) Diminishing Returns affects +recharge. If you are going to test +recharge then you need to account for DR if you are in a PvP zone. Test using the O-portal if you want to investigate +rech without the hassle of DR.
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PvP zones use a different set of rules for powers than PvE zones. I didn't use Oro because I didn't want to compromise the test by using the powers in a way that was not consistant with the intended use.
I took a Sheild/SS Tank to test and stripped him down of all enhancements except for a lvl 33 Obliteration set slotted into Foot Stomp that he has at lvl 38. Obliteration give a 5% recharge bonus. Same test as before. I cast Sheild Charge and Active Defense multiple times and averaged the times both inside and outside Sirens Call. Both powers were unslotted.
Sheild CHarge:
90 sec base recharge.
85 sec in Steel Canyon with 5% recharge bonus
85 sec in Sirens Call with 5% recharge bonus
Active Defense:
3 min 20 sec base recharge
3 min 10 sec recharge in Steel with 5% bonus
3 min 10 recharge in Sirens with 5% bonus
It looks like Fallen hit it on the head with DR affecting my other tests on live.
I'm convinced. It would appear that sets do in fact give bonuses from powers that are not available provided the sets are of the appropriate level. This is rather enlightening. Also a bit disconcerting considering we were told by the devs that this was not how it was supposed to work. I guess it just demonstrates again that they have no clue how their game works.
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Good stuff, Ant. I'm actually quite happy to proved wrong and this is quite good news, but sad that I didn't know this before now. Thanks for testing!
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
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Also a bit disconcerting considering we were told by the devs that this was not how it was supposed to work.
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It isn't the 1st time. Remember how purple IOs were 1st described to us?
From Issue 11 patch notes
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We have now included Very Rare recipes to the rewards given by defeating foes. These are hard to come by (only dropping from level 50 foes), but carry with them exceptional rewards.
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Anyways, I'm glad you took some time to look at +rech...I've only tested +HP and Defense set bonuses. +rech is probably the best way to test b/c you don't have to rely on stats given to you by the UI.
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What I don't get is why some procs like LOTG +7.5% recharges don't work in sc level unless they are 33 or below but Numinas, Miracles and Perf Shifters do.
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I *think* the deal with the LotG +7.5% is that it acts like a set bonus.
With things like the Stealth IO, Numinas, Miracles, and P. Shifters *something* happens every 120? seconds. It doesn't care about level...if it is "on" then it is going to fire. This is why if I slot a level 50 stealth IO in sprint it will work even if I ex down to level 1. As long as the power is available the stealth is going to be applied every X seconds. If I had put the stealth IO into superjump then as soon as SJ goes away so goes away my ability to use the stealth IO.
Someone please tell me if I understand all this correctly.
RULES:
1. Unique IO's (any level) work when in SC if text reads "*something* happens every 120" and is slotted into a power picked prior to level 31. (example: lvl 50 numina, Miracle, +Stealth) This also includes performance shifter +end proc.
2. LoTG:Recharge only work in SC if level 33 and below. This can be slotted in ANY power even one chosen after 30.
3. Enhancement Set Bonuses work in SC if all enh's are 33 or below. These apply even if slotted in any power selected post level 30.
4. Purples are exempt from all rules and always work.
Set Bonus' from ALL powers will be applied when exemplar'd to X level if all enh's are level X+3 or less.
Enh's (any level) that proc when a power is active will be applied when exemplar'd to X level as long as the power was chosen at/ or before Level X.
Examples:
6 Miracle level 40 enhancements socketed in level 14 Health. Results in SC = No Set Bonus applies, but the Miracle +Recovery will work.
6 Miracle Level 30 enhancements socked in level 32 Health. Results in SC = Full 6 Set Bonus applies but the Miracle +Recovery does not work.
6 Miracle level 40 enhancements socketed in level 32 Health. Results in SC = No Set Bonus applies, and the Miracle +Recovery does not work.
6 Miracle Level 30 enhancements socked in level 14 Health. Results in SC = Full 6 Set Bonus applies and the Miracle +Recovery does work.
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Someone please tell me if I understand all this correctly.
RULES:
1. Unique IO's (any level) work when in SC if text reads "*something* happens every 120" and is slotted into a power picked prior to level 31. (example: lvl 50 numina, Miracle, +Stealth) This also includes performance shifter +end proc.
2. LoTG:Recharge only work in SC if level 33 and below. This can be slotted in ANY power even one chosen after 30.
3. Enhancement Set Bonuses work in SC if all enh's are 33 or below. These apply even if slotted in any power selected post level 30.
4. Purples are exempt from all rules and always work.
Set Bonus' from ALL powers will be applied when exemplar'd to X level if all enh's are level X+3 or less.
Enh's (any level) that proc when a power is active will be applied when exemplar'd to X level as long as the power was chosen at/ or before Level X.
Examples:
6 Miracle level 40 enhancements socketed in level 14 Health. Results in SC = No Set Bonus applies, but the Miracle +Recovery will work.
6 Miracle Level 30 enhancements socked in level 32 Health. Results in SC = Full 6 Set Bonus applies but the Miracle +Recovery does not work.
6 Miracle level 40 enhancements socketed in level 32 Health. Results in SC = No Set Bonus applies, and the Miracle +Recovery does not work.
6 Miracle Level 30 enhancements socked in level 14 Health. Results in SC = Full 6 Set Bonus applies and the Miracle +Recovery does work.
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1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Correct
4. Correct
You get a A+
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I will do these same tests on other characters after some reslotting, but it seems pretty clear to me that the character is not getting the bonus 6.25% recharge bonus from the Call to Arms set when in Sirens Call, even if the real numbers feature says he is.
In short, it appears that the real numbers are not accurate.
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1) Keep in mind how your enhancement values can change when you exemplar. I believe a level 45 in siren's call would have a multiplier of 0.935 (from link).
2) Diminishing Returns affects +recharge. If you are going to test +recharge then you need to account for DR if you are in a PvP zone. Test using the O-portal if you want to investigate +rech without the hassle of DR.
Issue 13 PvP Powers Changes
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Diminishing Returns
Nearly all attributes characters have are now subject to Diminishing Returns. The specific numbers vary from attribute to attribute, and from class to class (it's easier to Buff Resistance and Defense on a Tanker, than on a Blaster.)
* In general, a single buff will have near full effect, while additional buffs begin to offer less and less benefit. Example: Under the old system, Aim + Build up might provide a combined 67% To Hit buff, while under this system it provides a combined 49% To Hit Buff.
* The calculation is based on the sum of all buffs, so the order the buffs are applied in does not matter.
* It is important to note that the Real Numbers tool will not always report the results of diminishing returns accurately, at least initially. This is specifically true of Damage Buffs, which always display the Pre-Diminished value.
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Anecdotal, sure, and I never saved any hard data,
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Please do some actual testing before posting.