I'll PM you.
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Okay, so now that the craze has died down a bit, can someone tell me...
Just what's meow? The best I can tell, it features level 42 city maps full of non-combat allies guarded by tons and tons of Rikti ComOffs. Why 42? Why does it (did it) work? Why meow?
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Why 42? Only Douglas Adams would know...
Craft your inventions in AE!!
Play "Crafter's Cafe" - Arc #487283. A 1 mission, NON-COMBAT AE arc with workable invention tables!
Specific instances of Rikti were given bonuses for being on a hard mission/spawn. These included the Ship Raid Rikti (54s, no longer available), and Sewer Trial Rikti (41-42s, no longer available).
The bonuses granted to those mobs were way beyond reasonable for MA arcs, especially since the comm officers could be exploited.
All Rikti comm officers gave lieutenant XP but had minion stats. As far as I could tell the level 42 versions weren't any different in this regard. In fact, I believe the meow farms that used them were actually sub-optimal for PLing because everyone was SK'd up to being even-con with them. The hard core farm maps use level 52 enemies and SK lowbies up to 45.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
Level 42-42 only were hydra trial rikti and thus had a bonus associated with them. If you took the normal rikti and set their level to 42 using the standard tricks their xp was significantly less.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so now that the craze has died down a bit, can someone tell me...
Just what's meow? The best I can tell, it features level 42 city maps full of non-combat allies guarded by tons and tons of Rikti ComOffs. Why 42? Why does it (did it) work? Why meow?
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Because ..... 42 is the meaning of life 
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All Rikti comm officers gave lieutenant XP but had minion stats. As far as I could tell the level 42 versions weren't any different in this regard. In fact, I believe the meow farms that used them were actually sub-optimal for PLing because everyone was SK'd up to being even-con with them. The hard core farm maps use level 52 enemies and SK lowbies up to 45.
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no, they gave twice the xp of a same level BOSS, but had minion stats.
the hardcore used the 40-44 versions - started by a level 50 - and everyone at 41 or below was sk'd to 42. as long as you never bothered to train your char beyond level 40 at an actual trainer you would continue to get the absurd xp bonus all the way to 50 - on that 40-44 map
the devs of this game have no problem with people farming missions. if they did, most of the villains on this game would have been banned two years ago for farming TV. no, they just dont like people abusing mobs that gave two times the xp of a +2 boss with 1/4 the health/resistances
apparently the devs DO dislike farming, as the message from synapse seems to confirm, and as the post by Posi also stated. If they were just fixing a flaw that they accidentally put in no one would really be upset (well, someone might be, but the rest of us would ignore those that far out of touch from reality).
You know, I missed some of the details, but I PMed Skarmory to keep it out of public discussion because who knows what out of all of it got fixed/tweeked and what could still be used or not.
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You know, I missed some of the details, but I PMed Skarmory to keep it out of public discussion because who knows what out of all of it got fixed/tweeked and what could still be used or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Comm Officers are all but useless now, so there's really no harm in talking about it. That's not to say that other people haven't already moved on to other critters by this point, mind you.
this is just a related observatory rant, not aimed at anyone specifically, just triggered by more detailed information people have posted:
There are so many topics about people who don't understand why the penalties happened for doing this kind of stuff. The more I read the mechanics of what it took to use the MA in the manners they were being used, the less I believe that the people making the arcs had no idea it wasn't as intended. There have been so many arguments about it, mostly bashing the devs for taking unwarranted action, and then I read posts detailing what it took to get the XP farms. I don't see how anyone can be so naive as to think that they weren't doing anything that could be seen as bad.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
[ QUOTE ]
this is just a related observatory rant, not aimed at anyone specifically, just triggered by more detailed information people have posted:
There are so many topics about people who don't understand why the penalties happened for doing this kind of stuff. The more I read the mechanics of what it took to use the MA in the manners they were being used, the less I believe that the people making the arcs had no idea it wasn't as intended. There have been so many arguments about it, mostly bashing the devs for taking unwarranted action, and then I read posts detailing what it took to get the XP farms. I don't see how anyone can be so naive as to think that they weren't doing anything that could be seen as bad.
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It was most likely because it worked.
The Devs Issued and Released a Product, that we all pay for.
Some Peeps found the flaws in the Product and used them to their gain.
The Devs never intended to have Rikti Comm Officers act the way they did, it was a complete oversight on their part, when the "Special" versions were included in the MA. That was their fault, as they should have realized the differences in the Spawn of that Critter.
However, you most likely own a Hammer. It is a tool used to drive nails into wood, commonly used to build things.
It can also be used as a weapon.
Was it the intent of the maker of the Hammer that it should kill? No.
It was the person using the Hammer that decided to use it as a weapon.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
And we have a WINNER! Comparison of farming to murder. Step right up, collect a prize. 
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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this is just a related observatory rant, not aimed at anyone specifically, just triggered by more detailed information people have posted:
There are so many topics about people who don't understand why the penalties happened for doing this kind of stuff. The more I read the mechanics of what it took to use the MA in the manners they were being used, the less I believe that the people making the arcs had no idea it wasn't as intended. There have been so many arguments about it, mostly bashing the devs for taking unwarranted action, and then I read posts detailing what it took to get the XP farms. I don't see how anyone can be so naive as to think that they weren't doing anything that could be seen as bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was most likely because it worked.
The Devs Issued and Released a Product, that we all pay for.
Some Peeps found the flaws in the Product and used them to their gain.
The Devs never intended to have Rikti Comm Officers act the way they did, it was a complete oversight on their part, when the "Special" versions were included in the MA. That was their fault, as they should have realized the differences in the Spawn of that Critter.
However, you most likely own a Hammer. It is a tool used to drive nails into wood, commonly used to build things.
It can also be used as a weapon.
Was it the intent of the maker of the Hammer that it should kill? No.
It was the person using the Hammer that decided to use it as a weapon.
[/ QUOTE ]
It wasn't just Rikti Comm Officers.
When someone tells you not to use a hammer except for hitting nails or prying nails, and you do it anyway and it turns out to be a weapon, then you suffer the consequences.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
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Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
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Steam Profile
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I'll PM you.
[/ QUOTE ]Do me a favour too?
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??? Yeah, I would like to hear this too. Only to just *know* what it was about. The way you put your statement, it sounds like some very top secret thing that shouldn't be said here...I am clueless of why it cant be said here. It's done and over with I thought.
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apparently the devs DO dislike farming, as the message from synapse seems to confirm, and as the post by Posi also stated. If they were just fixing a flaw that they accidentally put in no one would really be upset (well, someone might be, but the rest of us would ignore those that far out of touch from reality).
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Honestly I think it's due more to the fact that the MA is flooded with farm missions, making story missions hard to find, which defeats the intended purpose of the Mission Architect, which is to allow you to create stories and play stories that others have created.
[ QUOTE ]
apparently the devs DO dislike farming, as the message from synapse seems to confirm, and as the post by Posi also stated. If they were just fixing a flaw that they accidentally put in no one would really be upset (well, someone might be, but the rest of us would ignore those that far out of touch from reality).
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no actually - the devs have no problem with players farming missions. legit farming. you want to reset that misison and do it again to farm the kills for a badge or drops? they dont mind at all.
so long as you arent exploiting some loop hole to gain an unfair advantage. using these particular mobs was that loophole. it wasnt farming - it was exploiting.
it's still possible to get stupid amounts of xp out of ma missions. it's also still possible to bridge and get even MORE stupid amounts of xp out of dev created missions. it's also possible for a solo stalker to plevel 7 people on newspaper mission completion bonuses alone. but these arent exploits if they were they would have been fixed years ago.
no. it's not the same thing. the devs arent outlawing farming. they are outlawing exploitive farming. getting twice the xp of a boss from a minion? exploit. making a mission where you hit a glowy for maximum ticket returns every 3-4 minutes over and over? exploitive. making a misison with nothing but lieutenants? not exploitive (since they give normal lieutenant xp and no matter how easy you make 'em, a crowd of lt's will destroy all but a few builds of a few classes)
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this is just a related observatory rant, not aimed at anyone specifically, just triggered by more detailed information people have posted:
There are so many topics about people who don't understand why the penalties happened for doing this kind of stuff. The more I read the mechanics of what it took to use the MA in the manners they were being used, the less I believe that the people making the arcs had no idea it wasn't as intended. There have been so many arguments about it, mostly bashing the devs for taking unwarranted action, and then I read posts detailing what it took to get the XP farms. I don't see how anyone can be so naive as to think that they weren't doing anything that could be seen as bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was most likely because it worked.
The Devs Issued and Released a Product, that we all pay for.
Some Peeps found the flaws in the Product and used them to their gain.
The Devs never intended to have Rikti Comm Officers act the way they did, it was a complete oversight on their part, when the "Special" versions were included in the MA. That was their fault, as they should have realized the differences in the Spawn of that Critter.
However, you most likely own a Hammer. It is a tool used to drive nails into wood, commonly used to build things.
It can also be used as a weapon.
Was it the intent of the maker of the Hammer that it should kill? No.
It was the person using the Hammer that decided to use it as a weapon.
[/ QUOTE ]
It wasn't just Rikti Comm Officers.
When someone tells you not to use a hammer except for hitting nails or prying nails, and you do it anyway and it turns out to be a weapon, then you suffer the consequences.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is my point.
The Blame lies with the user of the Hammer (AE).
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll PM you.
[/ QUOTE ]Do me a favour too?
[/ QUOTE ]
??? Yeah, I would like to hear this too. Only to just *know* what it was about. The way you put your statement, it sounds like some very top secret thing that shouldn't be said here...I am clueless of why it cant be said here. It's done and over with I thought.
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...*sigh* This' going to get me further denounced, but you asked and I'll be honest, and this' going to be a long ramble.
We're not supposed to discuss exploits on the forums and we don't know what's still there or not, but fine...
I created a meow mish for the sheer fact that the people who made the other ones were lazy about it. They just grabbed the farm map they were used to, the Family/Demon farm map, and used that with bubbles slapped in without much research. I preferred the Carnie Commercial map fully tweaked out set at difficulty 4. This gave me:
30 Ally/Rescues + 62 Destroy Objects, with each spawning 4 level 42 Comm Officers that spawned orange. I didn't realize the importance of the 42-42 Comm Officers was that they were trial spawns with upped rewards, but I did know the 42-42 ones gave vastly greater rewards. I also realized that soloing was a far better use of time than teaming. By setting the allies and destroy objects as mandatory, it upped the ticket drop at the end, too.
40+ it was granting a level per run through and if I had 700-1000 tickets at the start, I'd get above the ticket cap from the drops and end mission bonus, and I probably could have with 0 tickets.
If you didn't train past 40 you could continue to get xp like normal and ding to your heart's content. I did it because I just wanted a damnable VEAT and to finish my MM before my Arsonist gave me a rage heart attack. I started my MM before I14 and it was basically soloing aside from the very sparse PUGs on Liberty redside. After I14 it was either soloing or AE teams. I built myself an Atta caves mish with text and plot and rescues to up the Freakshow spawn count. It wasn't til like 30+ or so before I even heard of meow. Heh.. someone asked me for a farm once and I gave them my Atta mish as "a good map filled with mobs for xp." I bet it didn't even get looked at because it wasn't using the exploit stuff.
Now, onto the present of MA and MA farms...
1. MA farms will continue to persist for the very mechanics of MA.
2. Granted, as far as I know you can't bridge, but if anything, it's easier to get a group together of various levels with a 50 that knows what they're doing and plow through the mobs.
3. ANYTHING in the MA can be used as a farm because of the above and the fact that you can easily replay content. Even the Dev's Choice arcs can be farmed. Farming is just redoing the content over and over, after all. Exploitive farming is different.
4. The devs are against exploitive and MA farming, but unless they get rid of xp or something, there's no way to get rid of MA farming. They can't get rid of xp in MA though, or the only people who'd play MA would be, well.. you guys here and in the MA story section with a smattering of others, to be blunt.
5. They can't really turn the auto-powers off for Allies completely, either, though they have it set right now for just difficulties 1-2 at least, but disabled in 4. Some people do use this as a legitimate tool.
6. They can't really turn off the auto-powers for just Allied created critters either because of above and also because there are existing enemies that give a lot better buffs. I personally used created critters with FF, Sonic and Dark Miasma to get rid of the negligible energy damage the Comm Officers did, but I've seen missions with I'd say better buffs that come from developer created NPCs. (I'm looking at you, [removed]!)
The developers are in a damned if they do, damned if they don't type of situation, and it's not so much that there's no easy fix for it. It's more like there's just.. NO fix for it. At least, not completely and not without pissing off the entire playerbase beyond the "Drama Club" members. But, if they wanted to seriously reduce the amount of MA farming or at least make it a lot more difficult for people to do in MA, here's what they should do (yes, another list):
1. Hard cap the number of Ally buffs at say 3-5 for Non-Combat and Pacifist Allies, while having anything above that not buff you.
2. Establish diminishing xp/inf/ticket returns for each Ally above the cap. That way people can still use Non-Combat and Pacifist Allies for storytelling purposes and won't be punished for Aggressive and Defensive Allies. I don't think drastically reducing the allowed Ally rescues would work because I can see the possibility of say someone wanting to have an entire army against a hard end boss.
3. Ally rescues should still be limited and put in a separate section than regular rescues but still count toward the rescue total, though. 30 in the Carnie Commercial map is ridiculous. There should be a cap of 10 Allies or so for each mission, and any map that allows more rescues will have the 20 left over in my example go towards regular rescues.
4. Establish diminishing returns on the same MA arc played more than once in 24 hours akin to diminishing Merits for TFs, except have it affect xp/inf/tickets for MA arcs. Say 90% for the second time through and then drastically drop off after that.
5. Remove the buffs from destroyable objects or at least don't let them affect the player like the Superadine Labs.
6. If it's still in there, don't let created critters' buffs affect the players too unless the target is mezzed. I don't know if this' an MA thing or a games mechanic thing, but when a /empathy drops Recovery Aura and I'm in range, it affects me, or at least did.
7. Remove ticket gains from stars. I've never agreed with getting tickets from stars, especially with Dev's Choice getting the high priority from the developers and essentially giving them free tickets, and this will keep farms from getting tickets for being 5 starred that the farm creators can then use before the arc gets hit for being a farm.
8. Put in a window of say 24 hours after an arc's published where it can't be unpublished, to help curtail people publishing farm arcs for their play period and then removing them so they're (hopefully just in the farm publishers' minds) less likely to be caught.
9. Establish a level range system. This' tricky, but I'd say make it so that level 1-10 players can do arcs up to level 20, 10-20 can do up to 35, 20-30 can do up to 45, 30-40 can do arcs up to 50, and 40+ can do arcs up to 54. You'd need to put in an "In my level range" filter to help accommodate MA users.
And finally...
10. Do not, do not, do NOT remove rewards from MA. I can't stress that point enough. As I said earlier, removing rewards completely from MA would absolutely destroy it.
You asked for more info and I gave it. By doing thus, I knowingly throw myself upon the mercy of the forums for admitting not only that I knew about meows but that *gasp* I used them. Now I go to bed, sadly expecting to come back and find myself on people's ignore lists and peoples' opinions of be devalued greatly simply for giving the info requested. :/
And yes, everything after the info was to try and make people see I'm not some [censored] or something. I just don't share some of your viewpoints on certain things.
Wow man, thanks. Well, now I know. I dont think what you said here should upset anyone. If it does then well, MEH on them 
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I don't care that you made one of those arcs. I don't care that other people made them either. What I do care about is how the people who get penalized then come onto the forums acting like they didn't do anything wrong after getting penalized for it.
If you didn't get penalized and didn't fall into the window of exploitive conduct then you're in the clear.
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Looks to me like you couldn't just 'roll up' a meow without considerable forethought.
Which takes the "I didn't know it could be used for farming!!!" argument, wads it up, and tosses it in the oubliette. Exploit city, this.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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Looks to me like you couldn't just 'roll up' a meow without considerable forethought.
Which takes the "I didn't know it could be used for farming!!!" argument, wads it up, and tosses it in the oubliette. Exploit city, this.
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There were quite a few 5 starred farm mishes for awhile there. Some were blatantly farms, others weren't, and with the nature of the listings, it would be easy for someone to stumble upon a farm mish without realizing it if it hada 5 star average and was pushed ahead of the others.
I didn't know the 42-42 Comm Officers were Sewer Trial Comm Officers until someone explained it earlier in the thread, I just knew they were giving better rewards. The situation isn't as black and white as you seem to make it. Yes, it was wrong, but not everyone who did it was as fully in the loop. Some people really did just notice the arcs with "meow" in the title gave good xp, so played them.
I'm personally still stumped as to why they were called "meow".
Okay, so now that the craze has died down a bit, can someone tell me...
Just what's meow? The best I can tell, it features level 42 city maps full of non-combat allies guarded by tons and tons of Rikti ComOffs. Why 42? Why does it (did it) work? Why meow?
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
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