Just to view from a different perspective. (PSW)
By
Argentae,
Posted on: 2009-05-20 24:45 in Dominators
If there is a rule that is never followed it is not really a rule then is it?
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If there is a rule that is never followed it is not really a rule then is it?
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It technically makes it more of a general guideline, then it does a rule. Specifically:
This is the baseline. In order to make powers more or less interesting, or to create a specific 'feel' within a set, some powers may be above or below this line as long as it's within a reasonable difference and it's made up somewhere in the set, or that it's not likely to produce any catastrophicaly weird effects.*
*I have absolutely no idea if this is actually how it's used, however it is how I would use it were I designing a system to create a point of balance.
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If only recharge was touched, to meet the rules to the key, it would have to be changed to a 56 second recharge, this would lower dps drastically.
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Looking for a little clarification on this point. Was that a typo, or did he really mean 56 seconds? What's the recharge set to now?
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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If only recharge was touched, to meet the rules to the key, it would have to be changed to a 56 second recharge, this would lower dps drastically.
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Looking for a little clarification on this point. Was that a typo, or did he really mean 56 seconds? What's the recharge set to now?
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It's currently 10. The next 'most balanced' version is 20.
If Starsman's cruising through... How far off is the Blaster version from the baseline?
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If only recharge was touched, to meet the rules to the key, it would have to be changed to a 56 second recharge, this would lower dps drastically.
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Looking for a little clarification on this point. Was that a typo, or did he really mean 56 seconds? What's the recharge set to now?
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That is no typo - following the power formula to the letter, PSW should have a ~55.9s recharge and an end cost of ~48.4. (I did the math myself last night because I was curious.) It currently has a 10s recharge and an end cost of 10.192.
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If Starsman's cruising through... How far off is the Blaster version from the baseline?
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Yuri: Assuming damage is the constant (as opposed to the recharge)?
Recharge - 20.09375 (less than 1/10 a second off)
Endurance - 18.59 (current is 10.192)
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70.8 to 39.7
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Not exactly. Remember the inherent damage buff.
Now it does: -138.15
Blaster Version would do: -125.25
Both account 3 SOs.
Dom version would be feel the heat harder, though, hey used to do -191.29
Additionally is the fact that the Blaster version has double the recharge.
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If there is a rule that is never followed it is not really a rule then is it?
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A rule that is not always followed is a guideline you should stay close to.
Heeey. I already said that! 
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If only recharge was touched, to meet the rules to the key, it would have to be changed to a 56 second recharge, this would lower dps drastically.
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Looking for a little clarification on this point. Was that a typo, or did he really mean 56 seconds? What's the recharge set to now?
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It's currently 10. The next 'most balanced' version is 20.
If Starsman's cruising through... How far off is the Blaster version from the baseline?
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The blaster version matches the rule to the key by reducing damage, reducing radius and increasing recharge.
I was very literal with the 56 second point, too. Applying the full formula to a 56 second recharge power with the radius and of dom's PSW would do the damage that PSW does now for doms.
Primaries aside, the AOE situation is more risky for a dom than a blaster. Blasters have 20% more hp. Also, blaster version is on 16 targets, and could get aim and concentration boosts.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Ahh. Nifty. So it's more of an 'We can expect at least this much' sort of thing. That'll be handy in future speculations!
Very true, my PSW Dom frequently bites the dust. One missed control, or too slow on the trigger and boom down I go. That's one reason I enjoy playing him.
I understand the power on paper is overpowered. I even understand it needs adjustment. I don't like the idea of being transformed into the blaster version of the power. There has to be a better way.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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Heeey. I already said that!
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Yes you did! I been replying as I go. 
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Heeey. I already said that!
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Yes you did! I been replying as I go.
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Reply faster! Gogogo! :3
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Primaries aside, the AOE situation is more risky for a dom than a blaster. Blasters have 20% more hp. Also, blaster version is on 16 targets, and could get aim and concentration boosts.
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My blaster can't AoE stun or AoE hold or AoE immob or AoE knockdown.
They also don't get ranged holds to deal with extremely problematic foes before they get there.
And once you jump into build options, although not part of the base design, the defense and resist modifiers of Doms is higher even than Scrappers meaning they get higher benefit from Tough and Weave (plus resist/defense PPPs) than anyone but Tankers.
As some one that has played blasters and doms: those holds add a LOOOOOOT of survivability, even the ST ones.
That 20% extra hp means they can take just 16% more damage, thats means that that 7 minions kill a blaster as fast as 6 minions kill a dom that just crosses his arms.
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If only recharge was touched, to meet the rules to the key, it would have to be changed to a 56 second recharge, this would lower dps drastically.
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Looking for a little clarification on this point. Was that a typo, or did he really mean 56 seconds? What's the recharge set to now?
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That is no typo - following the power formula to the letter, PSW should have a ~55.9s recharge and an end cost of ~48.4. (I did the math myself last night because I was curious.) It currently has a 10s recharge and an end cost of 10.192.
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Sarrate notes something i made an whoopsy on: it would not be increased endurance or recharge, it would be both. for the end discount to hold... the thing may have... i don't be an actual nuke with a 300 second recharge? At that point, special rules start to take over, though, rules that govern powers like rain of arrows and Full Auto, witch would allow the power to exists in its current form with it's endurance but at 60 second recharge.
These rules are not so written down and are more in the "we want the set to feel this way" realm.
Would you mind linking the redname post that explains this rule about damage and AoE?
Long story and knowledge that has been spread and purges and spread again, not sure where to find it on the forums but here is the damage formula:
=1+(0.75*(Radius/5))-(((0.011*(Radius/6))*(360-Arc)))/5))
Pure AoE (not cones) have an arc of 360.
You basically divide calculated damage by that formula to get the final AoE damage.
Damage formula is:
=(0.2*((0.8*Recharge)+1.8))
Arcanaville MAY have an official link or something, I know she tends to archive that stuff.
Well, with build options:
The blaster could go Cold and get hoarfrost, frozen armor and flash freeze. That with a high base hp gives him plenty of survivability (albeit, later on).
If we do consider primaries, he could go sonic for sirens song and screech, or fire for RoF. All those have good mitigation.
There is also WoC.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
If the Dev's change PSW's dmg... ima be pissed
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
Consider the set as a whole. Other than PSW psi may be the least powerful set you can get.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
I thought that's why Castle said - on every occasion PSW changes were mentioned - that he'd be increasing the rest of the set as well.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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I thought that's why Castle said - on every occasion PSW changes were mentioned - that he'd be increasing the rest of the set as well.
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Yes he is. Psi will be pretty good at ST damage. It will solo better and vast majority of new players will love it.
The problem, people with AOE focused builds, especially those who use them to farm, will feel nerfed, if its implemented as suggested. So the sets AoE damage gets a nerf, while its overall ST performance gets buffed.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Ah, I was actually wondering about that. The only Dom I played was Ice/Ice. Dropped it right after SOs because it was such a poor fighter.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Just a note, there is an AoE formula the devs use to determine how much damage an AoE power does. It's technically a divisor, it comes up with a number and then divides by it.
This formula is usually broken, it's not always followed to the fullest either. Many sets find themselves over it, others under it.
No power breaks it as badly as PSW though, most powers may break it for up to 30% in extreme cases, -20% to +20% more often.
PSW breaks it by +375% IF this power was to be balanced without changing radius, damage or recharge, the power's end cost would have to go up to 48.412 and even here it still would be considered not enough.
If only recharge was touched, to meet the rules to the key, it would have to be changed to a 56 second recharge, this would lower dps drastically.
If only radius was changed, it would have to become a ST (thats actually the bug with the power, they never applied the AoE modifier to it's damage.)
-Starsman I think
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*Shudder*
I just ran some numbers - if he does exactly the same thing [as he did to blasters] it will amount to a gutting of PSW.
Radius Cut from 25' to 15'
Recharge doubled from 10s to 20s
Damage going from 70.8 to 39.7
That last one worries me a bit.
-DarkSideLeague
It makes me more comfortable with the upcoming changes.