... which means as people get injured/taken down, the defender also becomes weaker and less able to fight off whatever's causing the problems... as opposed to being able to stretch their powers farther due to the lessened endurance cost?
No, as in a reward for doing their job. If people are getting injured it would be an incentive to focus more on support, when people aren't getting injured they'd focus more on damage.
It would certainly make more passive sets *cough*forcefields*cough* more fun to play and would make them a + to any team, even if the team already has decent support.
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
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no leave my infinite endurance inherent alone
So wait, the less the team seems to need a Defender, the more you want the Defender to be able to act as a Blaster? Um, so just get another Blaster.
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So wait, the less the team seems to need a Defender, the more you want the Defender to be able to act as a Blaster? Um, so just get another Blaster.
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This.
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No, as in a reward for doing their job.
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Force fielder stays in range of the team, bubbles the rest of the team. Regardless, there's still a chance to hit - sometimes, for quite a bit. NPC "rolls," and hits two of their four person team for a good bit of damage.
The force fielder has done their job correctly - they've buffed the defense of the team. The team still got hit. But now, nothing the defender can do can protect them more or undo the damage - yet the defender now does less damage.
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If people are getting injured it would be an incentive to focus more on support, when people aren't getting injured they'd focus more on damage.
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"Defender" is not a synonym for "Healer." What is a Sonic or FF going to do? Buff them again?
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It would certainly make more passive sets *cough*forcefields*cough* more fun to play and would make them a + to any team, even if the team already has decent support.
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They already *are* a plus to any team. You've just punished them by *decreasing* their damage when it may be needed more. Meanwhile, for the sets that can heal and debuff, you've just made their job harder, since they're not getting the endurance discount that would allow them to maintain debuffs (or buffs) longer and make their endurance stretch further.
I think he has an interesting idea actually. What if they got a bonus to endurance and regen with low HP and attack with high HP? That would make them more effective solo or while teaming with a lot of defense.
Sonic and FF can do things other than heal with that endurance discount. They can KB, debuff, or stack more of their blast's bonus effects. Presumably in such a situation endurance and regen would be a lot more useful.
A more interesting type of vigilance would do a lot for defenders IMO and they need some kind of solo buff that works with support concepts. Such an inherent would be a way of adapting to the team's needs, even a solo team.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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I think he has an interesting idea actually. What if they got a bonus to endurance and regen with low HP and attack with high HP? That would make them more effective solo or while teaming with a lot of defense.
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Blending it like that instead of replacing it outright is, IMO, a better approach - and would, as you said, help a bit more solo, which is the biggest weak point in the defender inherent at the moment.
There's probably going to be some AT balancing with going rogue and I would much rather buff defenders, stalkers, and tanks than nerf the rest. Doms are getting a huge buff to join the ranks of the rest anyway.
And while speaking of that subject:
Tanks should get a 2nd inherent, a click called Offensive Focus that increases their attack but debuffs recharge, res, etc.
Stalkers should get a minor res and attack debuff added to "Assassin's Fear" so that they can have more team utility.
But I like the idea here, because it is kind of hard to come up with a solo buff that works with the support theme of defenders and this does, if combined with the endurance buff and another regen buff.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
Thanks Chaos for contributing ideas. Good ideas at that!
Most people on these forums just go:
"Booo that wont work!!"
"Well... do you have any ideas?"
"Of coarse not. But... I know yours is stupid!"
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
Check out my Deviant Art: http://darkauthor81.deviantart.com/
Hopefully with CoR this issue will be revisited; I primarily play defenders and loathe our inherent.
Hate to say it, but this most certainly isn't the first time this has been discussed. In fact, every thought presented in this thread has been done repeatedly. Indeed, every idea in the thread has already been imagined, usually as a form of independent creation (where two separate people both create the same work, or works that are substantially similar, on their own and independent of each other).
And really, you apparently didn't read any of the replies to your previous posts that were negative, at least not all the way through. The various posts listed reasons why the idea was no better, and actually worse, then the current status quo. Someone who even "Boo'd" your original idea went on to say how the revised idea would be good, including WHY it would be you're probably not even reading this far anyway better then the current Inherent power for Defenders.
I've said it before many times, but I'll say it again now:
Vigilance would be greatly improved if it took the defender's own health into account.
Good for soloers, good for teams, good for proactive and reactive sets. I think the endurance discount is useful and thematically appropriate, so I'd be happy with this one tweak.
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no leave my infinite endurance inherent alone
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I've said it before many times, but I'll say it again now:
Vigilance would be greatly improved if it took the defender's own health into account.
Good for soloers, good for teams, good for proactive and reactive sets. I think the endurance discount is useful and thematically appropriate, so I'd be happy with this one tweak.
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There's just one problem with this, and it would be a min-max expectaion that the defender would go out of his way to harm himself to have max uptime. Afterwards, development would feel pressure to balance the AT for this playstyle.
It's a "cut-yourself: playstyle that I just don't want.
I wouldn't be against giving Defenders a global .02 damage mod... Maybe even .03!
But this? No. It's just too drastic. =-(
-Rachel-
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I've said it before many times, but I'll say it again now:
Vigilance would be greatly improved if it took the defender's own health into account.
Good for soloers, good for teams, good for proactive and reactive sets. I think the endurance discount is useful and thematically appropriate, so I'd be happy with this one tweak.
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There's just one problem with this, and it would be a min-max expectaion that the defender would go out of his way to harm himself to have max uptime. Afterwards, development would feel pressure to balance the AT for this playstyle.
It's a "cut-yourself: playstyle that I just don't want.
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I personally don't like the way that every other AT's inherent is useful all the time, but a defender that is doing their job well is effectively penalized by their inherent not functioning.
It's great when a team is on the brink of death and the defender suddenly has bottomless reserves of endurance to work with to try and turn things around, but when a team is rolling along and no one is getting hurt that ability becomes useless.
I was thinking about this and came up with an idea.
How about a boost to the defender's POWERS as the team is getting closer to death. As the team takes damage an Empath's base heal would increase a little bit, representing them trying harder to keep someone alive. Similarly, a Force Field defender whose team is taking damage would be able to reapply their bubbles with a higher defense bonus, replacing the current bubble. A debuffer's powers would debuff slightly more if the team is hurt, and so on.
My idea, if added to a reduced endurance discount version of current Vigilance, would benefit the defender and the team, and would discourage min/maxing because the team would have to be near death, and in the case of the Empath, the bonus would quickly get rid of itself as their heals started healing more. The bubbler would get the benefit on their shields as the team is hurt, but when they reapplied while the team was at full health they would be at normal strength.
The only problem area would be the debuffers. If you had a team that was good at remaining low on health and a force fielder along, you could stay injured and get much more benefit out of the debuffs.
Just a thought I had, figured I'd put it here since it was being discussed anyway.
Edit: Another problem would be this would be rather difficult to code I'm guessing.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Tying an Inherent to health is, in my opinion, a universally "Bad Idea". Similar to Defiance's tactics of "hurt yourself before the fight for maximum damage" and "run in before the Tanker gets aggro so you can get a damage boost", so would we see instances of "everyone jump off the building before we start, so I can apply mad bubbles"
Instead, I would suggest ways to enhance what Defenders do that do not rely on the relative HP of their team. Perhaps a form of Supremacy that stacks with other Defenders. Or a reverse Cosmic Balance, where for every Blaster on a team, everyone there gets a boost to Resistance, every Tanker on a team, everyone there gets a boost to Damage, etc, etc. And of course, Defenders would, simply by being there, give their own boost to Damage to everyone there, including themselves. The specific amounts can be debated (perhaps a 5-7% range), but I kind of like either of these ideas more then tying their Inherent to HP of anyone.
I think the Defender inherent should increase the drop rate and/or effectiveness of inspirations for all team members.
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Defenders are already losing out to controllers on hero side. Now that they'll be losing to corruptors as well
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hahaha....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
o
lulz
thats a good one
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Most people on these forums just go:
"Booo that wont work!!"
"Well... do you have any ideas?"
"Of coarse not. But... I know yours is stupid!"
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Actually people have come up with ideas. much much better ideas than this. Had you searched, you would have known this and we could have avoided this entire thread. kbai
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The only problem I have with negligence is that it really doesn't give defenders what they need in the situations where it's working. It's a nice little boost and it means I don't have to worry about endurance ever on teams, but it also doesn't do jack to help me defend the team.
I have two defenders, a Cold/Ice and a Kin/Sonic. OK, yes, both have endurance tools and really don't have much of a concern on a team. But even if they didn't, negligence doesn't help them when things aren't going well.
My Cold defender already has bubbled the team and debuffed the mobs. If people are hurting, there's nothing I can do. The Kin can heal, but Transfusion isn't the biggest drain on the blue bar.
Negligence seems like it was built for Rads and Empaths.
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Defenders are already losing out to controllers on hero side. Now that they'll be losing to corruptors as well it's high time their joke of an inherent is finally put down like Old Yeller.
My idea! Switch their inherent around. Give them a damage boost for doing their job. The healthier a team is, the more damage the defender puts out.
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
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