Why 25-29? Does not 30-34 have better enhancements then that level range?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Why 25-29? Does not 30-34 have better enhancements then that level range?
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Honestly? I have no idea. 
I poked around in a few threads on the topic and the gist I got (wrongly perhaps?)
said Bronze < L30 seemed to be a pretty decent spot. Pre-craft / sell, I'm inclined
to agree.
That said, I'll track this batch and determine actual profit made as a simple data point.
So far, the P/L looks (loosely) like this:
Revenue:
22K (Vendored the trash - 7 Recipes)
??? (Sold the crafted shinies)
---------------------
Costs:
626K (Expected Crafting Cost ... 48.2K * 13)
??? (Salvage Costs - all salvage will be bought from mkt and tracked)
??? (10% Sales Fees from sold shinies)
-----------------------
As those numbers become clear, I'll fill in the ???.
This isn't trying to min/max anything. It's a simple case of "Take 20 rolls, craft and sell, and
find out how much this returns".
This looks like a fairly average batch, so I'd expect to get a fairly average ballpark idea on
the value of doing it.
Regards,
4
Sales: 22K (vendored), ??? (Sold)
Minus: ~625K (expected crating
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Actually, its the 'gems' that affect the data the most.
From 323 rolls on live I got a single regen tissue +regen that sold for 40 million.
Thats an average of 124K per roll, just from a single sale.
5 or 10K for a level 50 vendored (3 or 6K for a capped at 30), is barely significant against that.
Now if you get one on average every say 400 rolls, the gem is dominant, if you get one on average every 4000 rolls vendoring the trash whilst still lower comes into play at a noticeable level.
(From my testing, the one per 400 rolls is much closer to the reality - My current data suggest maybe 1/350 or so)
When you factor in some 3-5 million level sales, some 10 millions and a 20 million as well as the 40 million, its clear the high end drops have a very dominant on average earnings.
I refer you to Topdocs thread about drop rates, and how his purple earnings have a major effect on his average earnings over time.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Actually, its the 'gems' that affect the data the most.
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this was true in DA as well.
Rare salvage & good IO recipes made or broke a run- all the 'little stuff' like generic recipes and common salvage barely registered.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Actually, its the 'gems' that affect the data the most.
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Yep, that makes perfect sense. Outliers of that magnitude definitely (and substantially)
skew the averages.
Mostly, as my first foray into ticket rolls, I'm just satisfying my own curiosity as to what
(ballpark) returns I'd get on, what looks to be a fairly average sample, and I thought
I'd share the results.
Outlier rolls would only serve as a boost to average results compared to what I'll get here.
That said, if there's no interest (or more importantly, value) in sharing the results of what
these sell for, I'm ok with letting this post fade away into oblivion and simply track it
personally (and quietly).
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Don't take that comment as a dismissal, if there is one thing we like here is well presented data.
I for one would examine intently.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Don't take that comment as a dismissal, if there is one thing we like here is well presented data.
I for one would examine intently.
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np. I didn't take it negatively at all.
If there's actual interest, I'll happily present the data once I have it. I'd have been tracking
it (this time) for my own curiosity anyway, and in fact, to Santorican's point, it may well
give me thoughts on whether to continue with Bronze rolls or change level ranges etc.
TopDoc, for instance, had a thread about Silver rolls are for suckers (implying it's not an
optimal return?), and others have chimed in that Bronze rolls might actually produce
too many recipes to be conveniently managed, so they roll Silver, or even Gold.
Basically, I'm wondering myself how it's going to turn out (for my playstyle). 
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
more data = good data!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Well, in that case, here are my keepers from some recent farming. Don't ask me what else I got, or how many thousands of Bronze rolls, I was clicking and deleting pretty fast. This was all redside, so I wonder how much it's worth. More importantly, I wonder how much it'll be worth next month. It's all level 14 stuff, which should be better than higher level ones. Then again, people are stupid.
Uncommon
85 Steadfast Protection: KB Protection
72 Steadfast Protection: Res/Def
93 Karma: KB Protection
Rare
15 Basilisk's Gaze: Acc/Rech
12 Basilisk's Gaze: Acc/Hold
12 Blessing of the Zephyr: Run, Jump, Fly, Range
24 Impervious Skin: Status Resistance
22 Kismet: Accuracy
20 Regenerative Tissue: Regeneration
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Pretty odd that you got so many -kb IOs. I've been getting similar luck. I haven't been keeping track, but I'm now the owner of 8 level 30 Karma/Steadfast -kb IOs.
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Pretty odd that you got so many -kb IOs. I've been getting similar luck. I haven't been keeping track, but I'm now the owner of 8 level 30 Karma/Steadfast -kb IOs.
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It's not all that surprising, given their popularity. I think one of the factors for recipe weighting was the the overall usage of the enhancement, not just the number of powers it can be slotted in.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
I, on the other hand, have not gotten a single one. I haven't done nearly as many rolls as TopDoc, but I've done hundreds, and gotten quite a few Steadfast Res/Defs. Not a single -KB though.
Ok, it's been a week since I made the Bronze rolls, and enough results are in to post.
To recap, I rolled up 20 recipes in the Bronze L25-29 range. I vendored 7 of them, and
crafted and listed the other 13. As of yesterday evening, 8 of those 13 have sold for a
net profit a little north of 9.1 Million. The highest priced shiny went for 3.33M and the
lowest sold for 200K. The remaining 5 are listed between 100K and 1M and will probably
add another 1-2M to the bottom line.
So, even with fairly average stuff, it's pretty profitable, albeit slow. The perk is that it's
easy to get enough tickets in a single play session to roll a few dozen recipes, and it's
hands off once the recipes are crafted, so, the process can be easily run in batches.
For that mythical casual gamer who doesn't play much, rolling some Bronze recipes
can make them a nice little nest egg while their character is idle using this approach.
As always, YMMV.
Regards,
4
Revenue:
..... 22,000 (Vendored recipes)
11,833,333 (Marketed recipes)
--------------
11,855,333 Total
Costs
1,183,333 (10% Sales Fees)
.. 809,258 (Salvage - 1 rare item was 411,111 of that total)
.. 692,400 (Crafting - all but 2 were 48,200 to craft)
--------------
2,684,991 Total
Profit
9,170,342 (so far)
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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So, even with fairly average stuff, it's pretty profitable, albeit slow. The perk is that it's
easy to get enough tickets in a single play session to roll a few dozen recipes, and it's
hands off once the recipes are crafted, so, the process can be easily run in batches.
For that mythical casual gamer who doesn't play much, rolling some Bronze recipes
can make them a nice little nest egg while their character is idle using this approach.
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Interestingly, I'm a casual gamer right now (new job, long commute, not much time to play even if I could!) and I came to this forum looking for JUST THIS type of information. So thank you!
While I'm here, how many tickets did it cost per roll? I'm still L25 but I have 4 or 5 thousand tickets that I've only been using for updating my enhancements as I out-level them.
I figured I'd wait until I could roll on 30's since a lot of sets start at 30, but if the 25-29 range is this profitable, maybe I'll start on that...
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how many tickets did it cost per roll?
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For the particular range I used (Bronze L25-29) the recipes are 65 tickets each, and,
if I recall, they bump up to 70 tickets each at the next range (L30-34).
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So thank you!
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You're quite welcome.
I undertook this to satisfy my own curiosity about tickets, but if it can help someone
else, so much the better.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
I'd also like to express my thanks. I play a bit more than a "casual gamer", but I became very weary of spending a lot of effort examining MMO markets some years back. These recipe rolls have been very successful for me, allowing me to keep focusing on gameplay I actually enjoy, and this forum allowed me to learn about this without any intellectual effort at all!
Since I do play a bit more, I'm capable of finding that my characters are running low on enhancement slots using bronze rolls, leaving me with tickets to sink. Given that I'm looking to burn off tickets, should I opt for silver or gold rolls, and from which level range?
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Since I do play a bit more, I'm capable of finding that my characters are running low
on enhancement slots using bronze rolls, leaving me with tickets to sink.
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This is an interesting issue, and one I've not answered for myself, but I'll happily speculate now.
Given the results from this particular (unexciting) batch, and not using any probability math,
I'd guess that most level ranges will probably be profitable to some degree or other
if these ones are.
There is no doubt in my mind that you can easily generate enough tickets in a single
play session currently to create several market cycles of: roll, craft, sell (a dozen recipes
only cost 780 tickets in the Bronze category). Even if half of them are junk (only 1/3rd of
mine were, in this case), a few thousand tickets will set you to batch crafting for days...
Excluding any Big Seller rolls, I'd speculate that 7 average Bronze recipes will earn more
than 1 average Silver (iirc it costs roughly 7X more tickets to roll on the Silver table),
so Bronze is probably more profitable in the long term for a given number of tickets.
However, this leads to some issues, which make it better suited for casual, limited-time,
players than it does for more active players (unless they have SG's and lots of
storage, etc).
First problem: You can easily hit the ticket cap before you can finish all the craft/sell
cycles from the first AE session, if you run AE missions even a few times a week. With
limited ticket holdings, and even more limited transaction slots, you're in the position
where you need some combination of: base storage, fewer tickets or fewer recipes or
faster sales. How do you juggle that easily?
2nd problem: You're getting 7X the recipes from Bronze, but are they 7X more profitable
than the Silvers? My guess is no... So, is 7X the work worth 2X or even 3X the profit by
rolling Silver?
3rd problem: Big Hitters. I've not analyzed this at all, but Catwhoorg rightly points out
(earlier) that these items skew the results big-time. If I spend 3500 tickets to roll gold and
get something that sells for 85M, does that beat the profit from 50+ Bronze recipes I didn't
get? Probably. If my 10M is representative for the 20 recipes I rolled, then those 50 net
me around 25M or so - nice, but well under the Big Seller.
Of course, if I roll gold and get a Perfect Zinger instead, that 25M looks pretty darned
good by comparison...
I think, on volume, you're likelier to find a sellable recipe in a batch of 50 than you are in a
batch of one, but if you hit the right one, it may be more valuable than *all* of the 50.
In the end, I think it comes down to a few points:<ul type="square">[*]How much do you play? ... ie. how likely are you to cap tickets or need market slots?
If you're only on once or twice a week, the Bronze "production line" may be ideal. If you're
on every day and/or run a lot of AE or do a lot of Marketing, the Bronze line may be *too*
productive to easily manage in terms of profit/crafting and sales effort.[*]What are tickets to you? Are you trying to supply your toons with IO's using them?
If so, stay Bronze or Silver - you're pretty much bound to get stuff you can slot.[*] What's your risk tolerance? How pissy would you be if the 3500 tix gets you vendor trash?
If you can cap tickets every day, maybe it doesn't bother you at all, but if you only make a
couple thousand, maybe you'd be more insistent about making *some* profit from it.[*]How rich are you? If you've got a billion or two, is that 10M a week worth the trouble?
Do you rely on tickets for inf, or are they simply a by-product of amusing yourself in the AE?
If the latter, why not take a shot at gold every couple days and not worry if it hits or not?[/list]
For me personally, the Bronze is an oversupply - I play nearly every day and I can make
more influence with other market methods in that same timeframe.
That said, I think I have some rarely used alts that may spin a few AE missions - it'll put
their slots to good use while I'm playing other toons...
I'm sure other folks will approach it differently depending on their particular circumstances.
Regards,
4
PS> Wow - I type too much... Sorry for the (extremely) long-winded post (had no idea it
was this long till I started proof-reading it).
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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How rich are you? If you've got a billion or two, is that 10M a week worth the trouble?
Do you rely on tickets for inf, or are they simply a by-product of amusing yourself in the AE?
If the latter, why not take a shot at gold every couple days and not worry if it hits or not?
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I think your experimental data winds up omitting the effect of the occasional more valuable recipes, which shows up much more strongly once you go beyond 20 recipes. I've produced in excess of 160 million influence this way over less than a week as the result of playing arcs with some characters in the 40s.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't a method for serious marketers. There are more effective ways to produce influence - heck, with the knowledge I've acquired this way, I know how to do it. But.. while this isn't as good as full-on markeeting, it's definitely not penny-ante either. It's a nice opportunity for people who are running AE content for fun and looking to make enough influence to show up on radar.
Also, I'm playing enough that excess tickets are still a problem. Silver 25-29, Silver 30-34, or something else?
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I think your experimental data winds up omitting the effect of the occasional
more valuable recipes, which shows up much more strongly once you go beyond 20 recipes.
I've produced in excess of 160 million influence this way over less than a week as the result
of playing arcs with some characters in the 40s
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Sure it does. The Big Sellers can only improve the picture (read skew the data) significantly.
However, they do that across any level range where you can get them, and you'd want to
calculate the probabilities within those ranges to see if some are more optimal for those rolls
or not, if maximum profit is the goal. That was well beyond of the scope of what I wanted
to learn in this exercise.
The point of my data (for me at least) was to document that even "average" recipes
can still turn a tidy sum, and depending on the rationale in my prior post, may be well
worth doing for certain playstyles and characters. I also wanted to get a sense of the
effort/time needed to achieve that profit without crossing my fingers and hoping for a
Big Hitter.
As for you exceeding ticket cap even with Silver rolls, I'd submit that it probably doesn't
matter which level range you're rolling in at that point - with that many recipes going
through the "production line" it's bound to be profitable unless the sales end is mishandled.
As a second point for you regarding ranges, it sounds like you're churning through a lot
more rolls than me. Perhaps you could document your P/L results in those level ranges
and answer your own question about which range s more profitable on average.
I for one would be interested in hearing your results.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Well, I finally got around to jumping on the AE Ticket Roll bandwagon...
So, if anyone is compiling statistical roll data, here are the 20 (L25-L29 Bronze) rolls I made
on an L31 Widow. Nothing fantabulous, but at first glance, it looks like a decent enough haul
given the effort put forth.
1. Calibrated Accuracy (A/D/R) ............ 11. Harmonized Healing H/E/R
2. Dampened Spirits (R/E) ................... 12. Kinetic Crash (R/E)
3. Dampened Spirits (ToHDB) ............... 13. Maelstrom's Fury (A/D)
4. Dampened Spirits (ToHDB/E/R) ......... 14. Maelstrom's Fury (D/R)
5. Detonation (D/R) ............................ 15. Mocking Beratement (Taunt)
6. Far Strike (D/Rng) .......................... 16. Perplex (A/R)
7. Focused Smite (A/D) ....................... 17. Paralytic (A/Hold/R)
8. Focused Smite (D/R) ....................... 18. Reactive Armor (E/Res)
9. Gaussian's (Chance for Build-Up) ....... 19. Titanium Coating (E/R/Res)
10. Gift of the Ancients (Def/E) ............ 20. Undermined Defense (R/E)
Cheers,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.