Go for the debuff if you want damage.
I'll have to check later to see the numbers for 2 defense IOs in the Enforcer, but definitely the heal for great AoE debuffage.
If you want survivability to be higher take the defense IOs, but if you want more enemies to be susceptible to lethal damage (which is about 2/4ths of your actual damage) then go for the Heel.
Bruiser does most of your single target (with a foot stomp rarely) damage and that's smashing.
[ QUOTE ]
I can understand the concept of Achilles Heel and ToLG (shadow) in both Soldiers and Spec Ops but is it worth it in thug Enforcers? I would be losing the 2x +21% Def IOs ( for over +8% total def ) from their Maneuvers, or even worse 2 x Damage IOs.
[/ QUOTE ]
err...manuevers is 7% base from each enforcer unless that was recently changed
Achilles is terrible, 10% chance for 10 seconds of -res is terribad. Don't put it in any pets, even merc soldiers.
[ QUOTE ]
Achilles is terrible, 10% chance for 10 seconds of -res is terribad. Don't put it in any pets, even merc soldiers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I have 2 Achilles in both of my mercs and I moniter the proc. There is barely a time that I HAVEN'T debuffed resistance and kept it on the target.
Ya, but it's a 20% debuff, and it does proc a lot on Mercs soldiers, so it's sweet.
http://coh.redtomax.com/data/powers/...s.AchillesHeel
Duey
- edit to add....doh, I'm off topic. Um, basically on Thugs it's only the Enforcers and there's only a few attacks for them. It'll proc, but not as often.
I had it slotted in soldiers waaay back when you could buff soldier recharge. It almost never makes any meaningful difference, compared to the chance for neg proc.
All I can say to this is to each their own Auspice. I'd say it may be worth it on the Enforcers, but I'd put it in a spreadsheet if I wanted to get real numbers.
[ QUOTE ]
I had it slotted in soldiers waaay back when you could buff soldier recharge. It almost never makes any meaningful difference, compared to the chance for neg proc.
[/ QUOTE ]
According to mids the achilles heel proc has a 20% chance of firing, just like the touch of lady grey proc. So it should go off just as often.
I am curious how you decided it was less effective than the negative energy proc - I have the toughest time getting GOOD data on my pets attacks. I can tell when a proc goes off but without manually tabulating damage I see no way to really compare the two considering that the debuff will affect more than just the attack that procced it.
Also, with careful slotting you should be able to put both it AND a negative energy proc in soldiers - I did and it the debuff goes off all the time, often enough I pulled the one I had in spec ops as they don't stack.
I don't know how effective it would be in enforcers - it will only go off in attacks that do a def debuff which is why it is effective in soldiers, if the enforcers attacks don't all included -def then they might not be as good a choice.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Actually, I put my soldiers against a stationary PvP target, and told them to attack. I saw them chain rapidly against the target, and my target would tell me how long he stayed resistance debuffed.
That amount was less than half the time (maybe 1/5th) with three soldiers on a single target. I also monitored the damage I was getting. The proc rate is really bad. On the other hand the ToLG proc would routinely generate about an entire full burst worth of damage every little bit here and there, which came out to much more overall ST dps. Because enforcer -def powers have longer recharges than the extremely fast (and slotted for +recharge at the time) soldier bursts, I doubt enforcers really maintain the debuff for any reasonable time. If they could keep it up even half the time it would definitely be worth it because the arsonist does so much more damage, but in practice with mercenaries it doesn't happen even on a single foe.
Edit: Oh, and my testing was done without upgrade 2, so no long animation full auto bursts, just the faster single bursts, and no grenade on the medic.
was this post-pvp nerf?
There was a pretty massive change to PVP mechanics as far as how debuffs were applied, and that seemed to include proc-based debuffs.
Back to the original topic
The post wasnt really for Mercs but for Thugs. As far as I am concerned for Mercs its a no brainers since they really arent losing anything , If you slot Achilles and ToLG in both soldiers and spec-ops you still have enough slots left over to get a 90% + to hit / damage.
In Thugs , you do not have enough slots on your enforcer to get 90%+ to hit /damage + Achilles + ToLG and 2x IO slotted+Def to get Maneuvers from 7.50% to 11.25%. It might not seem like much but in later levels I find the difference between 15% def and 22.50% defense is very noticeable.
I've had people complain that the archille's heel would always hit them consistently on my Thugs/. I tested it myself on a 2nd account it hits ALOT. Like 90% of the time.
[ QUOTE ]
I've had people complain that the archille's heel would always hit them consistently on my Thugs/. I tested it myself on a 2nd account it hits ALOT. Like 90% of the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do end up with 12 opportunities to activate the proc between the two Enforcers after upgrades (if I'm not mistaken)
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
[ QUOTE ]
Back to the original topic
The post wasnt really for Mercs but for Thugs. As far as I am concerned for Mercs its a no brainers since they really arent losing anything , If you slot Achilles and ToLG in both soldiers and spec-ops you still have enough slots left over to get a 90% + to hit / damage.
In Thugs , you do not have enough slots on your enforcer to get 90%+ to hit /damage + Achilles + ToLG and 2x IO slotted+Def to get Maneuvers from 7.50% to 10.65%. It might not seem like much but in later levels I find the difference between 15% def and 21.30% defense is very noticeable.
[/ QUOTE ]
You may be able to get around this somewhat by slotting one or more of your other pets with the Pet (regular and intensive(GW)) Uniques.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
[ QUOTE ]
I had it slotted in soldiers waaay back when you could buff soldier recharge. It almost never makes any meaningful difference, compared to the chance for neg proc.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not slot both? 
My Spec-op and Soldiers have both.
The problem with AH on Merc is that it is harder to tell when AH proc happens since most damage are DoT. Visually speaking, 3-3-3 damage isn't that much more impressive than 2-2-2 if you know what I mean but I think the AH effect is there.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
[ QUOTE ]
Back to the original topic
The post wasnt really for Mercs but for Thugs. As far as I am concerned for Mercs its a no brainers since they really arent losing anything , If you slot Achilles and ToLG in both soldiers and spec-ops you still have enough slots left over to get a 90% + to hit / damage.
In Thugs , you do not have enough slots on your enforcer to get 90%+ to hit /damage + Achilles + ToLG and 2x IO slotted+Def to get Maneuvers from 7.50% to 11.25%. It might not seem like much but in later levels I find the difference between 15% def and 22.50% defense is very noticeable.
[/ QUOTE ]
A mix of purple sets may get you close to capped damage with +defense and AH procs. You don't need that much +accuracy since Enforcers have Tactics (?).
What is your secondary?
You can put two unique in Punk and Bruiser to get that extra defense/resistance.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My proc testing was done prior to i13.
I'd test it again but then I'd have to actually buy the garbage IO.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Back to the original topic
The post wasnt really for Mercs but for Thugs. As far as I am concerned for Mercs its a no brainers since they really arent losing anything , If you slot Achilles and ToLG in both soldiers and spec-ops you still have enough slots left over to get a 90% + to hit / damage.
In Thugs , you do not have enough slots on your enforcer to get 90%+ to hit /damage + Achilles + ToLG and 2x IO slotted+Def to get Maneuvers from 7.50% to 11.25%. It might not seem like much but in later levels I find the difference between 15% def and 22.50% defense is very noticeable.
[/ QUOTE ]
A mix of purple sets may get you close to capped damage with +defense and AH procs. You don't need that much +accuracy since Enforcers have Tactics (?).
What is your secondary?
You can put two unique in Punk and Bruiser to get that extra defense/resistance.
[/ QUOTE ]
My secondary is Dark.
I dont understand what you mean about Punk and Bruiser. Achilles and ToLG can only go in the Enforcer since it has the Defense DeBuff set ability , I dont have any issue's with slotting Sovereign or Edict IOs as I put them in the Bruiser and Thugs along with 5 Mandate's
I personally slot 1acc, 2dam, 2def, achilles for my enforcers.
Sure the proc would be nice, but if you are running on lvl 5 diff, then the acc is nice to help supplement their tactics. I would gladly take achilles over ToLG as the -resist increases ALL pets damage of all attacks... I am sure someone can do the math, but it's going to be a hell of alot more damage than ToLG proc ever could be.
Wassabi Grav/Kin 50 (before badges/accolades were in game) Pinnacle
Miss Command Bots/Traps 50 Justice
*others left off due to space issues
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Back to the original topic
The post wasnt really for Mercs but for Thugs. As far as I am concerned for Mercs its a no brainers since they really arent losing anything , If you slot Achilles and ToLG in both soldiers and spec-ops you still have enough slots left over to get a 90% + to hit / damage.
In Thugs , you do not have enough slots on your enforcer to get 90%+ to hit /damage + Achilles + ToLG and 2x IO slotted+Def to get Maneuvers from 7.50% to 11.25%. It might not seem like much but in later levels I find the difference between 15% def and 22.50% defense is very noticeable.
[/ QUOTE ]
A mix of purple sets may get you close to capped damage with +defense and AH procs. You don't need that much +accuracy since Enforcers have Tactics (?).
What is your secondary?
You can put two unique in Punk and Bruiser to get that extra defense/resistance.
[/ QUOTE ]
My secondary is Dark.
I dont understand what you mean about Punk and Bruiser. Achilles and ToLG can only go in the Enforcer since it has the Defense DeBuff set ability , I dont have any issue's with slotting Sovereign or Edict IOs as I put them in the Bruiser and Thugs along with 5 Mandate's
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I was suggesting that instead of worrying about +defense in Enforcer, you can put more unique sets in Tier 1 and Tier 3 pets. The two new Pet Recharge uniques stack with Sovereign and Edict. Just a thought.
I am surprised that Dark Servant doesn't take Pet Recharge set.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
You really, really want +def in the enforcer. It adds a ton to pet survivability. Normal +def, not the edict unique. Slotting them for +tohit is good in the endgame if you've got HOs.
<QR>
I've always gone with +Def personally. I plan on picking up the Pet uniques as well.
Don't I know you???
You know what, I just realized that MM's pets may not be able to take Pet Recharge pets? Just Pet Sets??
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
gang war takes both
I can understand the concept of Achilles Heel and ToLG (shadow) in both Soldiers and Spec Ops but is it worth it in thug Enforcers? I would be losing the 2x +21% Def IOs ( for over +8% total def ) from their Maneuvers, or even worse 2 x Damage IOs.