CoH2 Discussion, without Vitriol

Yeah as long as the dev team are keeping ahead of the curve, they can be working on next-gen things while we're waiting, and eventually phase in the new stuff without much fuss. I would FAR rather have a compatable game that we can just play.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

I think it's more likely we'll see a significant game engine upgrade at some point, to the point where we might have to "translate" characters to play them, but not a true "City of Heroes II". It will completely redefine the base character skeleton, and how ALL powers are defined, to allow:


True Power Customization:

Someone else posted the ultimate power customization dream a little while ago. Blasters, for example, could choose if their blasts emanated from their chest, their hands, their eyes, their head, or a selectable, somewhat customizable prop. (No groins, it's still a Teen ranked game!) And colors could be chosen from a defined palette or even RGB sliders. Red ice? Sure, why not? (A Palette of predefined colors similar to what we have, with revealable RGB sliders at the bottom. Pick the base color, then fine tune it.)

Other powers would offer choices, such as choice of Flypose, choice of prop for things like Aid Self/Aid Other, etc.



Character Customization Deluxe:

Much more customization of characters, with separate left/right options, and more "anchor points", with more animation and detail (My graphics card is whimpering). Heads, Helmets/Hats and Hair all separate for example. The hair options might be limited by the helmet or hat, but still separate and individually customizable. Hair might be animated from the back of the head, where a hat wouldn't interfere, but a helmet might force you into hair choices that are only animated from below the helmet. Discernable fingers and toes. Maybe not individually animated, but at least not "club hands".

Maybe even different body settings for different costume slots.



The Translation Process:

One character at a time. If you chose a character you hadn't played under the new engine yet, it would ask "This character needs to be updated. Would you like to update now?" It would map the old options to the new ones through a preset translation table. A tailor coupon issued when the engine was updated would allow you to polish any costume details, or take advantage of new ones, and a standard freespec issued at the same time would allow you to make any changes to your powers you wanted to.

You wouldn't be able to change you character to any new powers, though. You would have to play any new powers that came with the new engine from level 1, just like you do now.

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Eventually the game's engine will be, ultimately, defunct. The graphics will not get prettier, the innovations to gameplay will reach their limit.

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That's... not really how it works. Changing and updating the engine for an existing MMO is no harder than creating a sequel, and is often vastly easier.

Think about the support that's been added since launch -- PhysX comes to mind. That's an engine update, one that (for single-player games and many FPS and the like) would have waited for the launch of a sequel... largely for revenue reasons.

It's possibly slower, because you have to maintain stability as you're doing it. But everything anyone has asked for could, theoretically, be packaged into the current game. Some of the changes (like the ones I requested) would require wiping character data, which is a no-no... but it doesn't require actually starting over from scratch at any point.

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-The eradication of hard ATs/calsses in favour of a much more flexible system of templates.

-Full customization of everything visual. I want to pick my cast animations. I want to pick the color of my projectile. I want to pick my run cycle. Etc.

-Limited power customization. I should be able to trade the knockdown in a power for knockback. A -defense debuff effect for a -resistance. Or scrap the secondary effects for more damage. Not every power could be customized and not every trade off would be possible, but as much as there can be.

-Striking and cohesive art direction. Art direction in games wasn't fully mature when CoH was being developed. I feel the current game lacks art direction is looks very generic. One option is to hire a "name" and with it a look for the game, much like DCUO did with Jim Lee. A name isn't needed, but can help bring recognition and help hype the game. CoX's current copcept guys are quite competent, but currently they're hamstrung with making new stuff match and fit in with theold (lack of) style. I'm confident that they could come up with an interesting style and look to the visuals without resorting to gaudy novelties like cel shading.

-A vet system for CoX players. Characters and costumes would likely NOT be forwards compatable with a new game. As much as you want, you odds are you can't bring your level 50 Blaster into a new game. But a "leg up" system like vet rewards that, for example, let you boost a single character to the half way level mark, or grants you double XP or somthing, would be a nice gesture.

-I would like to see a "cleaned up" continuity with the existing games. Simplify some things, drop plot point hook ups that never went anywhere, unless you plan on addressing them within six months of launching the new game. We've got so many hanging threads, the MA is pretty much the dev's way of saying "We're likely not going to get back to what's up with Penny and the Clockwork King, so what do you players think?".

-A greater focus on "zones" (assuming there still are zones and not a seamless world) and less on instanced missions. A lot of work in CoX went to to crafting the zones. But for the most part, all they act as are spaces in between mission doors. There should be giant monsters roaming the world at all times. Super villains showing up on the streets should be a semi-regular thing. Actually going out into the world...to look for crimes to halt. Patrolling. Streetsweeping. These are all but dead sometimes in CoX. Events like the Rikti invasions bring people out of the wood work, but that's not enough. People had an amazing time in the 5th anniv events with the AVs and giant monsters all over the place. Getting people out of instanced missions, away from farming/grinding in small team cliques, and outside in the world interacting with other players and making connections should be encouraged.

-People want a moon zone. People want underwater zones. People want different environments that behave differently. Variety.

-Also, for city zones, take a look at how some real cities are buit. I expect to see gas stations. A mall or two (not just a strip mall with textured store fronts, an actual mall you can enter). Schools. Parks that are more then flat green areas with trees. Why is there not a single baseball diamond in Paragon City? In parks I expect to children playing on equipment...who flee when a super battle gets near. Suburbs.

-Environmental interaction. I want to punch guys though billboards. I want to throw cars. I want a big megascreen in Blydes Square that gets exploded three or four times a day and each time, assuming there's a player around to see, little AI workmen and robots come to fix it.

Leveling buildings or smashing through them? No. I don't expect that. Uprooted power poles? Wielding steel girders? Weak spots in some walls? Yes.

-Improved mission design and improved AI. When I'm dispatched to clear a warehouse of super thugs, I don't want to walk into the front door of an instanced mission. Put a mission enterance marker outside on the street and THAT takes me to the instance of that block.Then I want to crash in through the skylight, or kick in the front door. And when I'm inside, I want enemies coming to investigate what the noise is. I don't want to see groups of enemies standing in place, punching their fists, waiting for me to approach them one at a time.

-At the highest level, I want to be considered one of the best in the city. Not an overglorified sidekick. I don't want to be 1/8th of every signature character. There should be very few villains human sized that can stand up to you by the end game, let alone you and a team. Guys you fought in the mid levels now have to gang up on you Sinister Six style. If you show up with a team, the villain calls in their team. Or a giant robot. Or tries an experimental serum or device. Heck, maybe he shrinks your entire team and you have to fight him like that. In CoH terms, very few "AVs" in the end game. EBs for a solo player, and team of EBs, GMs or deus ex for a team of players.



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What he means is that, if there's going to be graphical updates, new systems, etc, that it just be rolled into CoX. Not spun into a new game.

While I find the graphics options in CoX just fine, the VQ junkie in me still sits chained inside screaming "MOAR! MOAR! MOAR! I KANT SPEL!"

I'd have no problem with a system that used the top-end of what we have now, and then scaled up to "Make your Quad 295 SLI setup scream for mommy".

Retrofitting it into the game would take several years at least. Allowing greater evolution of graphics cards so the baseline would still be easily attainable.

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On the subject of power customization, I'd like to just have "skins" for powers, which do the same thing. For instance:

Fire blast customizations: Acid blast, Nanite blast, Atomic blast (not Radiation, that's different)

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Honestly, with the upgrades we have had, this is very nearly CoH 2.0

Get true power customisation and we would be there.
(old topic I know, but that is the only really big thing left out there to do)

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yep.

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yep. wouldn't shock me to hear about some very limited power cust before year's end.

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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

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On the subject of power customization, I'd like to just have "skins" for powers, which do the same thing. For instance:

Fire blast customizations: Acid blast, Nanite blast, Atomic blast (not Radiation, that's different)

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I'm thinking one hack that they might be possible to do is:

fire blast_red
fire blast_blue
fire blast_white
fire blast_black

keep it to the most logical colors a power might have and it could be a bit easier.

The issue would be:
1. Would take insane amounts of manpower. Which they might have now based on Posi's comments.
2. It could NOT be part of the character creator screen without that screen becoming a monster screen that would require EPIC amounts of scrolling downward or to the right.
It would probably have to be something you can do AFTER you create your character, by then going to a contact in game or in the tutorial.

In that new screen they can list all the types of colors and have nothing else but that (no enh displayed, no real numbers, etc).

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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

For a City of Heroes 2, the most important thing to me is that it is still a City of Heroes game. The core gameplay is "beat up multiple thugs for exp and levels while wearing awesome costumes". That must not change. Even if I prefer skill points, CoH2 must still have the core concept of CoH.

What I would like, though, is to break open the world. Currently, we have Paragon City, the Rogue Isles and "instance". I want to see the world, if possible. Go to the arctic, the amazon, desert environments, an underwater city, space, the past, other dimensions. I basically want a CoH style game focused on making things big.

For the awesome costumes part, CoH is already well on the way, but could use a graphical overhaul soon. Compare the new pieces with the original. Some of the original pieces really need a better texture. Compare the Valkyrie pack Head Detail wings with the originals, for instance. Also, since we have the PhysX, it would be nice to use the Cloth function on the capes. Also faces. See Sims 2? That's about as old a CoH. Templates and sliders, please. I don't expect the face and body generator to match Sims 3, but having it on Sims 2 level would be awesome.

For the setting, I wouldn't mind a time skip, to be honest. Jump ahead 20 or so years. The Coming Storm was bad, but averted. Many villain groups have been defeated and things were looking up. Many heroes have retired, or become mentors for a new generation. But evil doesn't sleep. It waits. Soon a new generation of Heroes (and Villains) will need to show that they are a match for their heroic (or villainous) predecessors.

A setting like that would in general answer why our characters don't transfer over directly, allow for technology to change just enough to still seem familiar, but comic book-ish, and make the world a fresh new place to be. And considering that Statesman and Lord Recluse don't age, they could still be at each other's throats. Although that would be a bit old with both of them back... Maybe something happened so they DID age? Having Statesman and Recluse as semi-retired mentor figures for each side could be interesting.

But basically a CoH 2 for me is a chance to wipe the story clean. On one hand, Ouroborus and the Coming Storm, not to mention the 5th returning, is awesome, but we're still recovering the Jewel of Hera, gaining Omega Clearance a good 10-20 levels after being told the shocking secret of the Rikti, and breaking into Frostfire's home to slide on his ice sculptures, then beating him up for asking us to stop. It would be nice to have a clean break and try a new story in the same universe.

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Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"

A CoX 2 with a ton of extra goodies would be great. Unfortunately we will have to wait 5-10 years before that happens.

Until then just go play CO or DCUO because apparently they will have most of what we are looking for.

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A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670

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A CoX 2 with a ton of extra goodies would be great. Unfortunately we will have to wait 5-10 years before that happens.

Until then just go play CO or DCUO because apparently they will have most of what we are looking for.

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I beg to differ. Those games really aren't offering a lot of what I am looking for.

The biggest draw to DCUO for me would be the possibility of joining the Green Lantern Corps, or being good enough to be invited to the Justice League, or fighting alongside the Titans, or meeting the JSA and thanking them for keeping the torch of heroism alive through the generations. DCUO could have a lot of potential geek out moments for me. I like the "idea of destructible environments," but I think the "reality of destructible environments" will result in most areas looking like a warzone once you pass a certain threshold of heroes in a small area. Provided that my computer can handle it, I will be trying out DCUO for the geek out factor alone.

CO lost a lot of appeal when Cryptic didn't obtain the rights to use the Hero System and translate it into a game engine. I understand why they didn't (all of Hero Games products utilize the Hero System, so there is no way they would sell it outright, and I don't think Cryptic had the funds to buy the IP and enter into a licensing deal), but it is still disappointing. I like the "idea of a classless powers system," but I think the "reality of a classless system" will result in tankmages and gimps, and very little in between. So far, CO has failed to wow me at all.

There are only a few things more I would lie to see in CoH, and I don't think they require a completely new game.

1) Choices: I'd like to be able to choose how to proceed with a story arc. Do I go to the silo and destroy the missle before it can launch, or do I find the villain's lair and stop him before he can launch the missle? The Devs have talked about branching story arcs as something they are trying to do n the future. Branching story arcs could also lead to villains creating their own schemes, possibly through an advanced version of the newspaper system. COH2, not necessary.

2) In the vein of the above; Side switching: There are lots of comics stories about the hero falling from grace, or the villain redeeming themselves (in the eyes of the heroes, if not the law). Magneto was Headmaster for Xavier's school for a while. Emma Frost used to be in the Hellfire Club. Bishop has betrayed the X-men in attempt to avert the future from which he hails. Luke Cage was a convicted felon before he got his powers. Winter Soldier was an assassin for the KGB before he became Captain America. Namor has switched sides so many times I can hardly keep track (he's bad again, right?). I believe some of the tech for this is already in place. Again, COH2, not necessary.

3) Power customization: While I think modifying the origin point of powers is such a huge amount of work that it will probably never happen, regardless of whether we are talking COH or COH2, the Devs have done the research on what it would take to let us change the colors of our powers. In the past, they have gone on record saying that the 15 of them would not be able to get it done and still produce new content while they were working on it. With over 50 Devs now on staff, I expect that the current situation is quite different. Again, COH2, not necessary.

4) Getting (further) beyond the City: It would be nice to explore more of the world in the wake of the Rikti Invasions. How does London look, post Invasion? Moscow? Paris? Rio? the Moon? Atlantis? Of course, this is "easily" addressed with the creation of new "City" Zones. CoH 2, not necessary.

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New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)

CoH2 might never be 'needed'... But I, for one, would welcome a new engine for our vehicle of amusement.

I'd love for the Devs NOT to be constrained by the limitations of a game engine developed over half a decade ago.

However I -don't- want to lose what we have, either.

Whether or not we get a new engine by issue 20, I'll still label that issue: CoH2.0

Though I'd like a new one!

-Rachel-

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As others have noted, the devs have dropped repeated hints that power customization is on the way. The problem is there's no telling how far away or how deep the customizations will be. Like, would it allow only tinting the colors of f/x? If it allowed things like beams emanating from your chest instead of your hands, that's a *bunch* of new animations. Would it allow things like a trail of ice particles for super speed rather than just a different color glow? I know it's pretty much pointless to speculate but it's comforting knowing (well, okay not knowing but believing) that they're working on it.

EDIT: one other thing I'd like is an updating of zone graphics. Posi mentioned that he'd rather do new zones than revamp old ones, but he was talking about Faultline-type revamps. I'm talking strictly about things like putting new skins on existing buildings to give them more detail. I would guess this type of thing could be done en masse to the various textures and bitmap files so the zones would look crisper.

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

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As others have noted, the devs have dropped repeated hints that power customization is on the way. The problem is there's no telling how far away or how deep the customizations will be. Like, would it allow only tinting the colors of f/x? If it allowed things like beams emanating from your chest instead of your hands, that's a *bunch* of new animations. Would it allow things like a trail of ice particles for super speed rather than just a different color glow? I know it's pretty much pointless to speculate but it's comforting knowing (well, okay not knowing but believing) that they're working on it.

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I'm of the opinion that "complete customization" is a pipe dream, simply due to the sheer number of animations that would need to be made for each power. Despite the fact that Champions Online has advertised it, I don't think they are going to pull it off. If they do, then they will have a more limited power selection. Given the choice, I think they will opt for more gameplay options than more aesthetic options. There is also the "bang for the buck" consideration. What if you make origin animations for one hand, two hands, eyes, and chest, and less than 1% of your players decide they like and use the chest animation for any of their powers? Was that development time well spent, or was it wasted? Knowing how popular the chest animation is compared to the others, do you keep developing the animations for new powers, or do you phase it out?

Colours? Not so out of reach. CO should have it easy because they designed with it in mind. CoX requires a bit more work, but they may have the staff necessary to do this work now and still turn out new content.

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New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)

I am all for it so long as they dont keep the same grand canyon size gap between the support classes and the damage dealing classes in terms of soloing speed. That to me is the only real flaw in this game. Fix that and I can level every AT to lvl 50 on any server.

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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

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-A greater focus on "zones" (assuming there still are zones and not a seamless world) and less on instanced missions. A lot of work in CoX went to to crafting the zones. But for the most part, all they act as are spaces in between mission doors. There should be giant monsters roaming the world at all times. Super villains showing up on the streets should be a semi-regular thing. Actually going out into the world...to look for crimes to halt. Patrolling. Streetsweeping. These are all but dead sometimes in CoX. Events like the Rikti invasions bring people out of the wood work, but that's not enough. People had an amazing time in the 5th anniv events with the AVs and giant monsters all over the place. Getting people out of instanced missions, away from farming/grinding in small team cliques, and outside in the world interacting with other players and making connections should be encouraged.

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This. Many people have suggested this in the past - myself included - and it would really go a long way to eliminate the tedium of regular mission arcs.

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-Environmental interaction. I want to punch guys though billboards. I want to throw cars. I want a big megascreen in Blydes Square that gets exploded three or four times a day and each time, assuming there's a player around to see, little AI workmen and robots come to fix it.

Leveling buildings or smashing through them? No. I don't expect that. Uprooted power poles? Wielding steel girders? Weak spots in some walls? Yes.

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One of the best things about Mayhem Missions is getting to blow stuff up. Making it a natural byproduct of combat - instead of an artificial "target this dumpster and hit 3" - would be awesome. Also nice: fixing the AI so those villains I bust out of jail don't stand transfixed by the sight of parking meters...

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-Improved mission design and improved AI. When I'm dispatched to clear a warehouse of super thugs, I don't want to walk into the front door of an instanced mission. Put a mission enterance marker outside on the street and THAT takes me to the instance of that block.Then I want to crash in through the skylight, or kick in the front door. And when I'm inside, I want enemies coming to investigate what the noise is. I don't want to see groups of enemies standing in place, punching their fists, waiting for me to approach them one at a time.

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Yes!

The graphics in CoX as they are right now are pretty good - they scale relatively well based on what the computer can handle, and at the top end things look pretty good for an MMO. Instead of trying to make a newer, shinier version of the game, I'd rather see them a) fix the memory issues and b) fix the mechanics of the existing game. It's not the graphics - it's the gameplay!

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Those are graet ideas they should do that!

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Power is unless without the will to use it,
But will in nothing unless you believe in yourself.
And that is ture power!
Written by-Mr Amazing