CoH2 Discussion, without Vitriol
By
AnotherDeadHero,
Posted on: 2009-04-30 05:05 in Suggestions and Ideas
I wouldn't want them to retain the same powerset model -- no need to release a sequel if they're doing that. I'd rather have something more like the alpha/closed beta building, or better, yet, do-it-yourself point-buy power creation ("Ranged Moderate Single Target: 15 points. Fire attribute: 3 points. DoT: 10 points").
Edit: Note: I'd want these to be shareable, and for new players to be given the option of picking a pre-made build for their first 15-20 levels from a list of sets that were voted as "newbie appropriate" by the community (which would help ensure they stayed more or less up to date).
Similarly, I wouldn't care about character backwards compatability. I mean, if we have a whole new world of content to play in anyway, why skip straight to 50 (or whatever the level cap is)?
As far as costumes go:
Grid-placeable decals instead of "chest emblems" and similar options available now, so we could have shoulder emblems or chest and back or off-center or whatever.
A layer for skin, and a "mannequin" that would let us place tattoos, scars, etc on a featureless blank white "doll" version of our character (to sidestep the hassles of having to work around underwear without having to allow nude or bandaid-censored "real" characters).
Jewellery which operates on an anchored version of a similar system. For instance, a jewelled stud could anchor to the belly button, nose, or ears. Bracelets could anchor pretty much anywhere on the arms or lower legs. Etc, etc.
Texture and Reflectivity scales complementing the color scale. Wood armor? No problem. Sleek metallic tights? Sure! Vinyl skirt? Check.
(Edit: Note: I'd want this to be designed with improvement in mind, such that we could eventually select individual elements or areas of a complex costume item to color/texture.)
Back details! As a comprehensive category. Same for Knee/Thigh details.
Face customization occurring more along the lines of recent console games -- no list of "faces," just molding and coloration sliders. Besides finally equalizing makeup access between the sexes (and finally getting lipstick to apply properly), AND giving us eye color control, this would far more importantly let characters be able to change facial expression as they emote or talk. Which, you know. Is kinda a big deal.
Two things, Jack?
I'd prefer a combination of multiple 'skins' for faces and the slider idea. Different people have different texture to their skin, and colors. And I think having different available options for the faces really helps with that.
The Backwards compatibility issue would be something no other MMO has ever done, and might drag old players to the new game where it otherwise wouldn't. Even with complete power customization (as you suggested the point buy system) could be programmed to 'accept' older powersets and convert them into the new-cost system.
-Rachel-
What are you willing to cut to put all of that stuff you want in?
They would have probably have to redo almost everything from scratch. A sequel would have a lot less content coming out the door than CoH has right now due to development time. So I think that one when one considers a sequel, one should instead focus on what should be different not what should be added.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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I'd prefer a combination of multiple 'skins' for faces and the slider idea. Different people have different texture to their skin, and colors. And I think having different available options for the faces really helps with that.
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Pretty much all of those can be compressed into tone sliders. Fallout 3 does a fantastic job of this, if you're willing to spend the enormous amount of time required to get exactly what you want. I think simply having a good list of presets would be an appropriate compromise.
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The Backwards compatibility issue would be something no other MMO has ever done, and might drag old players to the new game where it otherwise wouldn't.
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There's something I sometimes think about as 'reverse truth.' What you said is true, technically (at least, for major titles), but I think you might have the reasoning backwards. The reason MMO sequels aren't reverse compatible is because if they could be reverse compatible without compromising the new system, all of the changes made between the original and the sequel could have been applied to the existing game, quite possibly without losing (m)any players at all (as long as they were done gradually and intelligently).
I mean, it's distantly possible you could figure out some system smart enough to usually convert a CoH 1 character to CoH 2 stats. But even if it's perfectly reliable, players will complain that something they took on their original character -- say, Teleport -- was done to thematically sidestep somthing that's readily available now -- say, the Burrowing travel power -- and they don't like the decisions the automated system made for me. And that means support tickets...
Say the average number of characters moved was, oh, two per person, and only a quarter of the CoX 1 playerbase chose to do it. And say only a fifth of all transferred characters had issues their owners objected to. Rough estimates put that at 10 000 new support tickets.
But wait! What if we allowed them all respecs? Well... in that case, what's the difference between "import old character" and "reserve name and get new character at level cap"?
Edit: Kind of lost my original thread there, hah. So, yeah, anyway: The advantage of making a sequel is specifically that they aren't beholden to the old in any way at all, except perhaps insofar as their own expectations and those of the market direct. Name reservation, sure, that'd be neat. But the headache, heartache and hassle just isn't worth making an import tool for a new system -- and if there isn't going to be a new system, the money and time is better spent on fixing what's here than reinventing it all, with its own, entirely new set of problems.
You've definitely got some good points, there, Jack. *sighs*
Still. I'd hope they at least structure the backwards compatibility for saved costumes on the hard drive. That would be awesome! =-3
And Sermon.... Nothing, really. I wouldn't want them to cut anything. My favorite vision of CoH2 is a complete update of textures and game engine function while maintaining the current archetype system, rooting effects, etc.
I love City of Heroes for what it is. But not everyone does. So I'm asking what people would want to add to the game which would, likely, require a new engine at this point. Since the current engine can't make people superspeed on water, for example. Or let players run with costume layering.
If I truly had my Druthers I'd see all the storyline content from CoH1 moved to CoH2, new cities/zones added in with wholly new content, and so forth. But having Paragon be the center of the game's universe.
CoH would still run on the servers we have now, and would probably continue to advance. But the CoH2 engine would support all the original maps and models with better graphical detail and new options, in this perfect world.
So a backwards compatible character entering CoH2 would just be a character that reached 50 in the Isles or in Paragon. Doesn't stop him from heading to Kyoto, Paris, or San Fransisco in CoH2.
Which DOES lead my to an idea that works well with Jack's power customization idea...
If the powers are kept in Suites (if not Sets) and Archetypes can basically construct any suite of powers (Dark Melee mixed with Fire Melee and a secondary of Regen/Invuln powers on a scrapper for example) but are still limited by class roles (Melee/Defense for Scrappers. Blast/Support for Corruptors) then level 50 backwards compatible characters would be able to be constructed in the new game without being a 'you're 50 in the new game. It's over. You're done' situation. =-3
-Rachel-
In one of the interviews posted yesterday Posi said that they are looking into a graphical update for the game (and that they have hired people toward this end). It may not mean much more than updated textures and effects, who knows, but it's something to look forward to.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Honestly? I'd rather have a levelless, virtually classless system in which exclusivity (the reason you'd make ten characters instead of one) was provided by a larger set of difficult-but-not-impossible to reverse decisions. Think of them as mutually exclusive accolades.
I also want respecs to be called retcons.
But an MMO without levels is like a loaf of lunch bread in Wal-Mart that doesn't come pre-sliced. =/ So I'm trying to predict something that's merely unlikely, rather than miraculous.
A couple big wants that are missing here and I believe in all the forthcoming second generation superhero MMO's:
* Grappling -- as in being able to tackle, grab, lift, toss and even weaponize another enemy (as in grab one minion ranked hellion and swing him 'round to bash away all the other closing hellions!)
* Contiguous environments -- not sure entirely if I want this sort of rolling loading, but I think I do at the moment. I see pluses and minuses to its inclusion.
* Physics based (for lack of a better term) "puzzles" -- I want things like crashing jets, bridges and dams threatening collapse, etc. Destructible physically interacting parts to these structures and large vehicles along with powers having distinct effects upon different materials (take how ice powers can put out Steel Canyon fires and extrapolate that much much further) And conversely for villains would like to set out to destroy and sabotage things.
* A "plotting" mechanism or game mechanic for Villain play -- so villainy can truly be as proactive as it was described pre CoV release. The dev philosophy touted pre-release always felt on the money. But CoV failed to deliver in this department and remains my largest disappointment with that side of the CoX divide. (Though some creative MA authors have written some arcs that ameliorate this shortcoming a bit.)
As far as "big" ideas that leap to mind. I've little inkling as to what some of those things, especially villain play, would look like as a final product. But they are all things I desire in my ideal superhero MMO.
As far as multiple skins described above, I couldn't help but think of how The Sims 2 Pets handled fur and animal coloring as an interface. Not sure how weighty that sort of data would be when it comes to an MMO. But those tools are definitely an interface and character design experience worth checking out for reference.
The thing I've wanted since CoH launched initially was largely destructible, weaponizable (Hulk car gauntlets!) environments. It's just not a superhero game to me until someone gets knocked through a wall.
I'm kind of holding off my expectations 'til CoH 4 for that one, though.
Edit:
Oh, oh! And cats, dogs, rats, pidgeons, squirrels, and the four other kinds of animal that can be found in cities.
Fingers
oh and animated Tails
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
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Fingers
oh and animated Tails
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Animated costume parts altogether. Throw in some shaders and light sources too.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Graphically, I'd be looking for animated hair, including pigtails and braids, beards, and body fur. Also some more costume material options (dull and shiny metal, leather, cloth) that are used in all the different costume sections, with and without obvious breaks between sections. Tights with Skin options that actually look like tights over skin, versus just painted skin -- this especially goes for the masks (white mask over dark skin =/= thinned-out white watercolors painted onto dark skin). Different base "skin" options, including the aforementioned fur, scales, and metal.
Powers and powersets should be more modular and adjustable, e.g., to allow a melee character to pick up ranged powers that then adjust the modifiers to the melee powers and other abilities. A character could have powers from different groupings (Psychic Blast and Dual Pistols), but without the ability to cherry-pick the best of each group, i.e., develop each group independently.
Combining the last two paragraphs: have more costume options that work for player-characters (kicks for robe-wearing toons), and allow holsters and sheathes for weapons, with different placements and draw animations.
Have some powers/powersets only available to a given character as part of a "gamma ray exposure", "chemical immersion", "cybernetic surgery", etc., that takes place in-game, or just use it to allow a powerset respec, with follow-on missions that gradually allow for the levels to be doled out until they're completely respec'd. Maybe only allow it to be done at a couple different points in the character's career, but only once per character, or even only temporarily.
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I'd like sharks that shoot laser beams.
That and I'd like to be able to change the color of my powers, maybe I shoot green fire or blue, not red.
I'd simply like CoH to evolve into CoH2. That's all I can ask for. The rest, I'd wanna be surprised about! 
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I'd simply like CoH to evolve into CoH2.
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I'm pretty sure that's what already happened. Compare CoH launch to I14. 
And I myself don't see a need for a sequel.
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All I want is for the forums to be programed to auto-lock any thread that has the phrase CoH2 in it.
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I'd simply like CoH to evolve into CoH2.
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I'm pretty sure that's what already happened. Compare CoH launch to I14.
And I myself don't see a need for a sequel.
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Same here. Sequels to MMOs don't really make sense, since the usual reason for wanting a sequel is to update the capabilities of the game engine and what not. The game can evolve to accomodate new computer hardware, but it will take time. Look at Ultima Online. It was pure 2D and slowly evolved over 10 years into what it is now and people still play it. A sequel is not guaranteed to be accepted by the playerbase. Look at Everquest and Everquest 2. The EQ playerbase largely did not like EQ2 and stayed with EQ. The main draws in an MMO is the continual advancement of your characters and most players do not like to "start over" if you will...especially when they have dedicated 5+ years to them. I think by the time EQ2 came about it was pushing 7 or 8 maybe.
With that being said, if a sequel was to happen the only way I would support it was if I would be able to transfer my characters from CoH 1 to CoH2...like you could with the old D&D PC games. However, I would prefer if the original game simply evolved into a more advanced game.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
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I'd go with the backwards compatible route. Which is to say, "CoH2" would be an ugrade/remake/revamp of the core game engine and associated systems that, while redoing things to run better and allow more cool stuff, would still allow the stuff we already have.
In other words, the initial release of CoH2 would be what we have now, without losing our characters or anything... but the devs would have the ability to add in all the things they wanted to but never could. Power customization, wall crawling/running, grappling, etc...
Of course, the engine we have now isn't ALL that BAD. Other than a few problem, it works well. And apparently the devs are working on ways to upgrade it further. But if it ever DOES get to the point where replacing/remaking the engine is the only viable way to move forwards... Backwards Compatibility is the best option. Especially for an MMO that prides itself in it's retention rates.
Xaphan and Junkie both kind of got what I was aiming for.
Eventually the game's engine will be, ultimately, defunct. The graphics will not get prettier, the innovations to gameplay will reach their limit. At that point a new engine capable of doing everything the current engine is capable of (and more) would be the route to go.
Port over all the hard data from the game itself (locations, textures, missions, contacts, EVERYTHING) and update the engine to the new hotness.
They could keep CoH running on Legacy servers and starts up CoH2 on new servers with character transfer ability between the two, so people who've been with City forever can move over to the new stuff. People who HAVEN'T been around as long or don't have machines capable of running CoH2 can keep playing on CoH itself, which is, was, and I imagine will be still an amazing game.
-Rachel-
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Xaphan and Junkie both kind of got what I was aiming for.
Eventually the game's engine will be, ultimately, defunct. The graphics will not get prettier, the innovations to gameplay will reach their limit. At that point a new engine capable of doing everything the current engine is capable of (and more) would be the route to go.
Port over all the hard data from the game itself (locations, textures, missions, contacts, EVERYTHING) and update the engine to the new hotness.
They could keep CoH running on Legacy servers and starts up CoH2 on new servers with character transfer ability between the two, so people who've been with City forever can move over to the new stuff. People who HAVEN'T been around as long or don't have machines capable of running CoH2 can keep playing on CoH itself, which is, was, and I imagine will be still an amazing game.
-Rachel-
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I think what you are really asking for really isn't a sequel per say, but a new version of the original game. An upgrade really. More like a CoH version 2.0. Where everything in terms of story, locations and what not are still the same it's just the techincal aspects of the game which are new.
A guess what I'm trying to say is, calling it a sequel sort of implies that there will be all new stories, heroes/villains, etc, etc, and what not...not that that would be a bad thing, but in general, are not needed if you are just doing a technology update. This is where I think the past games have messed up. They created a sequel, but completely changed the game world, in effect alienating their original player base. So something like this would have to be handled very delicately.
I understand what you are getting at though.
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Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
Honestly, with the upgrades we have had, this is very nearly CoH 2.0
Get true power customisation and we would be there.
(old topic I know, but that is the only really big thing left out there to do)
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And considering all of the rather blatant hints, I'd put good money on us getting it (or at least hearing about it) within the year.
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I'll have to agree with a few of the posters in this thread. I'd rather not see a CoH2, but rather just continue to evolve CoH. The only reason to seek a CoH2 is for dramatic changes to the core of the system to allow the developers more freedom to do what they do best. This would allow them to make it easier to add things in like toxic defense, damage reflection auras, throwable weapons, toggles that add/modify damage types, etc. Other than that, I'd just rather see slow improvements to the graphical engine (real-time lighting, improved vertex weighing for capes/cloth/hair, environmental effects, higher resolution textures, greater use of shaders, etc) while they take their time adding and improving other aspects of the gameplay, story and core engine.
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Honestly, with the upgrades we have had, this is very nearly CoH 2.0
Get true power customisation and we would be there.
(old topic I know, but that is the only really big thing left out there to do)
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yep.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
Twice, now, a certain poster has opened up a thread on the idea of City of Heroes 2. I'm not going to go into what was said, but I'd actually like to see this discussion run without the negativity instilled in the other threads!
SO! What would you all like to see in a new CoH?
Personally? I'd love to see:
*New powersets and archetypes
*New parts of the World (as opposed to Paragon/Rogue Isles)
*Asymmetrical Costume options
*Costume Layering
*The Moon Zone
*SOME (but not many) of the Villain Groups ported over (Rikti, Council, Family)
*Swinging, Burrowing, Wall Crawling, and Acrobatics as travel powers.
*The ability for superspeeders to run on Water and -short- distances up walls.
*More variety of each type of powerset with more room for overlap (Superstrength/Streetfighting, Gravity/Time)
*Officially Designated RP and PvP servers
*Heroes and Villains in the Same zones through instanced versions. Villains on one side, heroes on another, PvP and Co-Op on a third and fourth version of EVERY zone. (Like Atlas Park 1 or 2 with different gameplay rules in 2)
*Backwards compatibility for Character Costume files.
*Backwards compatibility with CoH characters.
Now the last two sound just about impossible to do, but I think it's feasible... By having updated versions of all the costume bits and current powersets you could, in essence, create a 'translator' for earlier-created characters.
Sure! It would let people who've already played CoH to death walk into CoH2 with powerful characters but they'll miss out on a lot of story. I think it'll be a nice draw to returning customers who've burnt out on CoH1 to transfer over a character, though. People who wouldn't come back if the Devs promised punch and pie might be tempted if they felt they could 'cheat' to 50.
How about you guys? Anything -you'd- like to see in CoH2?
-Rachel-