AE Critter Power Changes
By
300_below,
Posted on: 2009-04-29 17:47 in The Global Training Room Test Server
Whoa whoa, hold the phone, everyone gets darkest night on standard? That's horrible. Darkest Night makes things just plain awful, to-hit wise.
*chalks up dark miasma as a set to never use*
Finally someone else is taking a look at what this patch entails. I was beginning to feel it was already a lost cause.
There's simply no way to cover all sensible combinations with just 3 levels. There needs to be several per powerset.
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
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There's simply no way to cover all sensible combinations with just 3 levels. There needs to be several per powerset.
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Clearly not. And some of these are just insane, like giving Darkest Night to Minions on Standard. That is a far worse debuff to give them than Tar Patch like before. It's like no thought was put into this at all because many of the bad changes should be bleedingly obvious.
My gut feeling, based on overall custom critter power levels and the wording of the Customizer badge, is that STANDARD difficulty is what a BOSS is supposed to have. The system feels designed around custom bosses, not custom minions.
I would therefore humbly suggest adding at least one difficulty easier than standard for each and every set, which may be more appropriate for underlings, minions, and LTs.
Here are the Custom Minion Power Sets as they currently are on test (4/29/09).
This is both Primary and Secondary Powersets; MINIONS ONLY
+ = added at Hard
++ = added at Extreme
TEST MINIONS
*Archery
Snap Shot
Aimed Shot
Fistful of Arrows
+ Stunning Shot
++ Rain of Arrows
*Assault Rifle
Burst
Slug
Buckshot
+ Beanbag
++ Full Auto
*Battle Axe
Beheader
Chop
Throwing Knives
Gash
+ Whirling Axe
++ Pendulum
*Broadsword
Hack
Slash
Throwing Knives
+ Slice
+ Parry
++ Whirling Sword
*Claws
Swipe
Strike
Focus
+ Shockwave
++ Spin
*Cold Domination
Infrigidate
+Benumb
*Dark Armor
Dark Embrace
+Dark Regeneration
+Cloak of Darkness
*Dark Blast
Dark Blast
Gloom
+ Dark Pit
+ Torrent
*Dark Melee
Shadow Punch
Smite
Gloom
+ Siphon Life
++ Dark Consumption
*Dark Miasma
Darkest Night
+ Shadow Fall
+ Twilight Grasp
++ Tar Patch
*Devices
Web Grenade
+ Targeting Drone
++ Caltrops
*Dual Blades
Nimble Slash
Power Slice
Ablating Strike
Throwing Knives
+ Typhoons Edge
++ 1000 Cuts
*Earth Control
Stone Prison
Fossilize
+ Stone Cages
*Electric Armor
Charged Armor
+ Lightning Reflexes
+ Conserve Power
+ Power Sink
*Electrical Blast
Charged Bolts
Lightning Bolt
Ball Lightning
+ Short Circuit
+ Voltaic Sentinel
*Electrical Melee
Charged Brawl
Havoc Punch
Lightning Bolt
+ Jacobs Ladder
+ Lightning Clap
++ Lightning Rod
*Electricity Assault
Charged Bolts
Charged Brawl
Lightning Bolt
+ Static Discharge
+ Voltaic Sentinel
++ Zapp
*Electricity Manipulation
Electric Fence
Charged Brawl
+ Lightning Clap
*Energy Assault
Power Bolt
Bonesmasher
Power Blast
+ Power Push
+ Whirling Hands
++ Sniper Blast
*Energy Aura
Kinetic Shield
Dampening Field
+ Energy Drain
*Energy Blast
Power Bolt
Power Blast
Energy Torrent
*Energy Manipulation
Power Thrust
Bone Smasher
+ Stun
*Energy Melee
Barrage
Energy Punch
Power Blast
+ Whirling Hands
*Firey Assault
Flares
Incineration
Fire Blast
+ Combustion
++ Consume
*Firey Aura
Fire Shield
+ Healing Flames
+ Consume
*Firey Melee
Scorch
Fire Sword
Fire Blast
+ Incinerate
+ Breath of Fire
++ Fire Sword Circle
*Fire Blast
Flames
Fire Blast
Fire Ball
+ Rain of Fire
*Fire Control
Ring of Fire
Char
+ Fire Cages
*Fire Manipulation
Ring of Fire
Fire Sword
+ Combustion
++ Fire Sword Circle
*Force Field
Force Bolt
+Deflection Shield
*Gravity Control
Crush
Lift
Gravity Distortion
+ Crushing Field
*Ice Armor
Frozen Armor
Hoarfrost
Energy Absorption
*Ice Blast
Ice Bolt
Ice Blast
Frost Breath
+ Ice Storm
*Ice Control
Chilblain
Block of Ice
+ Frostbite
+ Shiver
*Ice Manipulation
Chilblain
Frozen Fists
+ Chlling Embrace
+ Shiver
++ Ice Patch
*Ice Melee
Frozen Fists
Ice Sword
Ice Blast
+ Frost
+ Ice Patch
++ Frozen Aura
*Icy Assault
Ice Bolt
Ice Sword
Ice Blast
+ Ice Sword Circle
+ Chilling Embrace
*Illusion Control
Spectral Wounds
Blind
*Invulnerability
Temp Invulnerabilty
+ Dull Pain
*Katana
Sting of the Wasp
Gamblers Cut
Shuriken
+ Flashing Steel
+ Divine Avalanche
++ The Lotus Drops
*Kinetics
Siphon Power
+ Transfusion
+ Siphon Speed
*Martial Arts
Thunder Kick
Storm Kick
Shuriken
+ Cobra Strike
+ Crippling Axe Kick
++ Dragons Tail
*Mental Manipulation
Subdual
Mind Probe
+ Drain Psyche
++ Scare
*Mercenaries
Burst
Soldiers
Slug
+ M30 Grenade
*Mind Control
Mesmerize
Levitate
Dominate
*Necromancy
Dark Blast
Zombie Horde
Gloom
+ Life Drain
++ Soul Extraction
*Ninja
Snap Shot
Call Genin
Aimed Shot
+ Fistful of Arrows
*Ninjutsu
Hide
Ninja Reflexes
+ Kuji-In Sha
*Pain Domination
Soothe
+ Nullify Pain
*Plant Control
Entangle
Strangler
+ Roots
++ Spirit Tree
*Poison
Alkaloid
+ Weaken
*Psionic Assault
Psionic Dart
Mind Probe
Mental Blast
+ Telekinetic Thrust
+ Psychic Scream
++ Psionic Lance
*Psychic Blast
Mental Blast
Subdue
Psychic Scream
+ Scramble Thoughts
*Radiation Blast
Neutrino Bolt
X-Ray Beam
Electron Haze
+ Irradiate
*Radiation Emission
Radiation Infection
+ Radiant Aura
+ Accelerate Metabolism
*Regeneration
Fast Healing
Quick Recovery
+ Reconstruction
+ Dull Pain
*Robotics
Pulse Rifle Blast
Battle Drones
Pulse Rifle Burst
+ Photon Grenade
+ Repair
*Sonic Attack
Shriek
Scream
Howl
+ Sirens Song
*Spines
Barb Swipe
Lunge
Impale
+ Throw Spines
++ Spine Burst
*Stone Armor
Rock Armor
+ Earths Embrace
*Stone Melee
Stone Fist
Heavy Stone Fist
Throw Boulder
+ Fault
*Storm Summoning
Gale
O2 Boost
*Super Reflexes
Focused Fighting
Focused Senses
*Super Strength
Jab
Punch
Hurl
+ Foot Stomp
+ Hand Clap
*Thermal Radiation
Cauterize
+ Warmth
*Thorny Assault
Thorny Darts
Skewer
Impale
+ Thorn Burst
++ Thorntrops
*Thugs
Pistol
Call Thugs
Dual Wield
+ Empty Clips
*Trick Arrow
Entangling Arrow
+ Flash Arrow
*War Mace
Bash
Pulverize
Throwing Knives
+ Jawbreaker
+ Whirling Mace
++ Crowd Control
*Willpower
Mind Over Body
+ Quick Recovery
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Ok first of all, totally agree with LaserJesus: Darkest Night is bad bad bad. Stacking Darkest Night is worse.
Second: Why do minions have access to tier 9s?
Third: Build Up on Hard: Bad bad bad. I use Hard to get a boss that is a bit more challenging, not to take a boss from pushover to one-shotting a tank, thank you. Move Build Up to Extreme on all sets that get it, please and thank you. Also Aim.
Fourth: Without Blaze Fire Blast enemies can be too easy. Blaze is what makes them dangerous to a solo player.
I'm sure there's more, but out of the changes you listed these are the ones that my own MA experience has indicated might be problematic.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
My gut feeling, based on overall custom critter power levels and the wording of the Customizer badge, is that STANDARD difficulty is what a BOSS is supposed to have. The system feels designed around custom bosses, not custom minions.
I would therefore humbly suggest adding at least one difficulty easier than standard for each and every set, which may be more appropriate for underlings, minions, and LTs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely disagree, in most cases Standard is TOO easy. I tested my Critters on Standard today and they are absolute pushovers now compared to on Live, where they were also on Standard. What we need, and what I kept asking for during Beta, is a MEDIUM setting as in so many of these sets Standard is very easy but Hard can be absurd.
And Blaze is what a Fire Blast LT should have. Why the heck should Minions have Rain of Fire either? Why should a minion have ANY rain-type powers?
Any enemy LT level or higher will get fiery embrace from fiery aura when on hard or higher. While the build up on hard is annoying, it's not the end of the world, because the way that powers are unlocked on attack sets is different. However, considering that fiery aura is a defense set and only has fire armor and temp protection on standard, I really think fiery embrace should be moved to extreme.
Also, Gravity Control gets singularity at hard. While I personally actually support controller sets getting their pets at hard difficulty, I have to strongly disagree with Gravity Control's change. Singularity give a large amount of control just by itself, and could make things a living hell for non-melee ATs, whereas the other pets are mainly damage oriented, and can be killed more easily and are less problematic for non-melee ATs. I would leave singularity on extreme.
I never saw an issue with my Claws or Dual Blades critters having Follow Up/Blinding Feint. It's not nearly as strong as Build Up and it requires a Hit Check in order to buff the critter. They feel much weaker now without it.
Also, Dark Melee now gets Soul Drain on Hard instead of Extreme and Siphon Life was moved to Extreme.
Kitsune9Tails
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Pure conjecture: this is the quick anti-farming version; more thought out changes will be made in the future after players chew on it awhile. I would not be suprised if this were rushed to Live as an emergency maneuver.
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I really hope it doesn't. It's going to make a lot of players and authors angry if it does out in its current state. Especially as it utterly breaks some sets like Dark Miasma and renders them unusable if you don't want people rage-quitting your arcs constantly.
I don't know why they are giving so many critters Stun/Knockback powers on Hard instead of Extreme. Power Push? Handclap/Lightning Clap? If I want to use Hard for anything my arcs will have to have "Squishies need not enter." warnings on them.
[ QUOTE ]
Pure conjecture: this is the quick anti-farming version; more thought out changes will be made in the future after players chew on it awhile. I would not be suprised if this were rushed to Live as an emergency maneuver.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope the "more thought out" change is letting us choose the powers ourselves, with some minimal "must-take"s of course. The ranged attack in Melee sets could switch to optional if a ranged powerset is also chosen.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pure conjecture: this is the quick anti-farming version; more thought out changes will be made in the future after players chew on it awhile. I would not be suprised if this were rushed to Live as an emergency maneuver.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope the "more thought out" change is letting us choose the powers ourselves, with some minimal "must-take"s of course. The ranged attack in Melee sets could switch to optional if a ranged powerset is also chosen.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only problem with that, is that it would make custom critter files even bigger.
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The only problem with that, is that it would make custom critter files even bigger.
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True- that definitely sours me on the idea.
Problem is that if they rush these changes out and then give us something better later on, the damage is already done after a lot of authors have their arcs and custom groups completely ruined. People are going to get tired of having to redo and rebalance their critters over and over.
I think added more difficulty levels, like a Medium one, can help the problem without making the file significantly larger. First they need to totally rethink these standard settings though.
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I completely disagree, in most cases Standard is TOO easy. I tested my Critters on Standard today and they are absolute pushovers now compared to on Live, where they were also on Standard.
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What are you testing with? Your Brute?
Dec out.
Whoa whoa...minions with Stunning Shot and Beanbag? This game does not need more ranged mezzing, especially stuns which squishies can't get any protection from.
I'm noticing quite a few mezzes getting added actually, just looking over that big minion list. I guess now squishy-friendly = full of wimps. At least it looks like they took cobra strike away from Martial Arts on easy....
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I completely disagree, in most cases Standard is TOO easy. I tested my Critters on Standard today and they are absolute pushovers now compared to on Live, where they were also on Standard.
[/ QUOTE ]
What are you testing with? Your Brute?
[/ QUOTE ]
Brute, Scrapper, Dominator, Corruptor, Stalker. Sometimes I test with all my shields turned off as well. Sorry if I don't play many Hero ATs but I have friends test those for me and even the Controllers report having little trouble and these aren't people who are purpled-out.
True that I like designing challenges and warn people of that in my arc descriptions. The problem is that now these changes made the gap between Stupid Easy and Freakin' Hard even larger and more problematic to navigate. That is why we need more settings in-between Standard and Hard!
Mental Exercise:
Here are the Dark Blast powers available to a Custom Minion on Live.
How would you divide them into Standard/Hard/Extreme?
Dark Blast
Gloom
Dark Pit
Tenebrous Tentacles
Night Fall
Torrent
Life Drain
Blackstar
My thoughts:
Dark Blast
Gloom
+ Night Fall
++Torrent
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Really it should go something like this for Melee sets (which now all have a ranged attack because of the damn farmers).
Easy: 3 attacks (2 Melee, 1 Ranged)
Standard: 4 attacks (Another melee attack.)
Medium: 6 attacks (Here is where you can add a cone attack.)
Hard: 7 attacks (Now you can start adding PbAoE attacks.)
Extreme: 9 attacks (Only here is Build Up available.)
For Defense/Resistance Secondaries you should be able to give them all of their defenses by Hard and Status Protection on Extreme. This should apply for Minions as well. This would allow authors to create difficulty foes if they want while also allowing authors to make easier foes with little to no defense whatsoever. Maybe like how Regen was on Standard where it was all passives.
Easy: Passives Only
Standard: 1 Def/Res Toggle
Medium: Another Def/Res Toggle
Hard: Self Heal powers, Mezz/Damage Auras
Extreme: Status Protection (for Minions and up), "God Modes" (for Bosses and up)
That is the sort of flexibility we should be getting!
Wait, all sets coming with a ranged attack is a bad thing? The only bad thing about it is that all weapon sets are using Throwing Knives, IMO.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Wait, all sets coming with a ranged attack is a bad thing? The only bad thing about it is that all weapon sets are using Throwing Knives, IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is if you wanted a melee only character and have no choice in the matter. ALL sets come with ranged attacks on Standard now. But that is a minor complaint compared to nonsense such as Minions getting Tier-9 powers on Extreme instead of Tier-6 or 7 ones; being unable to make a Hard LT or Boss without giving them Build Up; and Darkest Night being given to everyone, including minions, on STANDARD.
Apparently, dataamining is showing that the previous minimum threat level for custom critters was underpowered.
Hmmm, I wonder why that is... 
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
How would you divide them into Standard/Hard/Extreme?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Blast
Gloom
+Life Drain
++Night Fall
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
Here is a list I am starting of the changes I have found with the way AE critter powers are being given on different difficulties after the 4/27 patch. This is also a discussion on the issues these changes cause.
The entire thing about being unable to give Minions Mezz resist anymore is another issue in itself. Personally I hope they give us back the option to give it to them on the Extreme settings. Taking away options does not make the system more flexible, no matter what anyone wants to claim.
Energy Aura:
* Cannot give Minions Power Shield at all but can give them Energy Drain on Extreme.
* Cannot give LTs or Bosses Entropy Shield without going to Extreme. Since Energy Drain is given on Hard, this poses a big problem. (Suggestions: Move Entropy Shield to Hard and Energy Drain to Extreme, or remove Energy Drain from the set entirely.)
Archery:
* Minions and LTs can no longer get Blazing Arrow, but get Rain of Arrows on Extreme.
* LTs still get Aim on Hard. (Suggestions: Move Aim to Extreme.)
Trick Arrow:
* Glue Arrow was moved to Extreme.
* Flash Arrow was moved to Hard.
Claws:
* Minions cannot get Follow Up at all anymore.
* Minions get Shockwave instead of Slash when set to Hard. Not sure why they needed this when they already get Focus on Standard.
* Minions get Spin on Extreme.
Dual Blades:
* Minions and LTs cannot get Sweeping Strike at all now, but they get 1,000 Cuts on Extreme.
* Minions get Typhoons Edge on Hard.
* Minions no longer get Blinding Feint.
Energy Assault:
* Snipe moved to Extreme.
* Setting Minions to Hard gives them Whirling Hands and Power Push.
* LTs and Bosses get Power Burst on Standard. This is a rather powerful attack to be giving a LT on Standard.
Electrical Melee:
* Cannot give LTs Thunderstrike at all. Instead they now get Lightning Rod on Extreme. (Suggestions: Change it back to Thunderstrike, Lightning Rod on a LT?)
* LTs get Build Up on Hard instead of Extreme now. (Suggestions: Move Build Up to Extreme.)
* LTs get Chain Induction on Standard instead of Extreme now.
* LTs get Thunder Clap on Hard now, before they didn't get it at all. (Please reconsider this.)
Dark Armor:
* Minions cannot get Obsidian Shield or Murky Cloud at all now.
* Minions get Dark Regeneration on Hard. (Why does a Minion need such a powerful heal instead of resistance?)
* Minions get Cloak of Darkness on Hard.
* Cannot give LTs Obsidian Shield without giving them Dark Regeneration, Cloak of Darkness, Death Shroud, and Oppressive Gloom. (At this point it might as well just be a Boss.)
War Mace:
* LTs and Bosses get Build Up on Hard now instead of Extreme. (Suggestions: Move Build Up back to Extreme.)
Fire Blast:
* Minions get Rain of Fire on Hard.
* Only Bosses get Blaze now.
Gravity Control:
* LTs and Bosses now get Propel on Standard rather than Hard.
Dark Miasma:
* Tar Patch is an Extreme only power for Minions, LTs, and Bosses.
* Minions, LTs, and Bosses get Darkest Night on Standard.
* Minions, LTs, and Bosses get Twilight Grasp and Shadow Fall on Hard.
* LTs and Bosses get Petrifying Gaze on Standard now, this used to be an Extreme power.
Radiation Blast:
* Proton Volley is now Extreme only for both LTs and Bosses.
* A LT set to Extreme will now get Atomic Blast.
This is only what I've come across so far. Some of this looks ok, but a lot of things make me go "Huh?"