No
[ QUOTE ]
No
[/ QUOTE ]
Prices should be set supply and demand rather than by the arbitrary determinations of the devs.
The only fixing that I think needs to happen is some weighting of the drop database to prevent so many recipes that are only slottable by a very small subset of the characters possible from dropping.
[ QUOTE ]
Flipping will be nearly impossible, of course...
[/ QUOTE ]
Flipping right then will be nearly impossible, of course...
Buying low and waiting to sell high at a more prudent time (a rainy-day economy) will continue as always.
The problem that causes inflation isn't flipping, anyway. It's less good production coupled with more money production.
Imagine if you owned your own money printing press what you would be willing to pay for a snow cone. Anything, that's what, because you could just print more.
Purple and Pool C/D recipes aren't snow cones. They're much shinier and far more long-lasting, too. That makes their demand considerably higher than snow cones (at least for the purposes of this discussion), and farmers can print all the money they want. As can anybody who's ever bought money from an RMT'er.
To fix inflation, simply increase the drop rates.
That's it.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
You forgot to say that increased drop rates for many recipes was just achieved through tickets.
The Devs do have control over factors that affect the economy, but to go as far as the OP suggest would just not be a good move.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
But not the drop rates for purples. In fact, I'd say those just took a big hit. As did the drop rates for a lot of common and uncommon salvage.
In other words, while the OP's suggestion may be overboard, the devs' planning for this issue's impact on the market was probably, overall, flawed.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
as i explained in the other thread, greed has a lot to do with it. and what would a dev deleting his toon have to do with the amount of money that is generated in game? people will pay what they see fit to them for anything. it is the people who are selling that need to be taught. or the people who are hoarding that need to learn that more of what you're hoarding will drop again. increasing the drop rates would also alieviate this. but for some reason the dev's think that you would get borred after you get 1 toon to 50 and deck it out. it is this thinking that is actually causing more problems then it is solutions. a few of us have actually kicked around the idea of having the MA drop salvage as well as tickets leaving the rolls to just recipes. not sure how it would work out, but it could help.
of course you could always sell the things you drop at the markets making yourself a nice profit to. 
[ QUOTE ]
but for some reason the dev's think that you would get borred after you get 1 toon to 50 and deck it out. it is this thinking that is actually causing more problems then it is solutions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't help it. I had to QFT this.
It's almost like Jack still calls the shots...
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Purples and the PvP recipes are a small volume part of the overall market.
They are the high priced end, and if there is one thing that history does tell us, the 'premium goods' like these will inflate faster than the baseline.
I don't have an issue with this.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
Purples and the PvP recipes are a small volume part of the overall market.
They are the high priced end, and if there is one thing that history does tell us, the 'premium goods' like these will inflate faster than the baseline.
I don't have an issue with this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have a look at Common IO's, then.
You can be as snide as you like, but last time I went shopping there were few of them and they were far between. The prices for what was there were ridiculous. Why? Common and Uncommon Salvage both took supply hits too.
I have an issue with that.
[Edit: Common IO's and Common and Uncommon salvage represent the bulk of the market's volume. Any game design that compromises their production is a serious issue. That's incontrovertible.]
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Really, what they should do is switch up some of the components necessary to create recipes with salvage. There is a whole lot of salvage that goes almost completely unused. The distribution should be more balanced. Luck Charms shouldn't be required for as many recipes as they are. Arcane salvage shouldn't have a stranglehold on the market while Tech salvage is tossed in the dirt. And uncommon salvage shouldn't be worth less than common salvage. I understand they made Arcane salvage more popular in an effort to get players to fight enemies they didn't like to fight, but the time for that is over. We need to balance the salvage market and with it, the recipe market will likely follow.
As for rare Recipes, Uniques and Purples and their prices, that's just supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is low, hence the prices are going to be high. Nothing you can do about that.
I do not support the idea of Dev market flooding though. That would ruin the game's economy. Some people like to play the market. This is part of the game they enjoy. Why should your enjoyment come before theirs?
[ QUOTE ]
Really, what they should do is switch up some of the components necessary to create recipes with salvage. There is a whole lot of salvage that goes almost completely unused. The distribution should be more balanced. Luck Charms shouldn't be required for as many recipes as they are. Arcane salvage shouldn't have a stranglehold on the market while Tech salvage is tossed in the dirt. And uncommon salvage shouldn't be worth less than common salvage. I understand they made Arcane salvage more popular in an effort to get players to fight enemies they didn't like to fight, but the time for that is over. We need to balance the salvage market and with it, the recipe market will likely follow.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
I really wish they'd do with common IO recipes what they did with base items/empowerment buffs. "use these 3 items, or these 3, or these 3." And then examine the ingredients needed for sets.
[ QUOTE ]
As for rare Recipes, Uniques and Purples and their prices, that's just supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is low, hence the prices are going to be high. Nothing you can do about that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is. You can not design game mechanics that virtually eliminate the influx of those recipes and the salvage needed to produce them. In essence, the devs have actually quite heavy-handedly changed our economy not once, but at least twice. Arguably, both times were "for the worst."
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
[ QUOTE ]
With cloudy eye and a struggling intellect he fetched this out:
"Marry, I seem not to understand. It is proved that our wages be double thine; how then may it be that thou'st knocked therefrom the stuffing?an miscall not the wonderly word, this being the first time under grace and providence of God it hath been granted me to hear it."
Well, I was stunned; partly with this unlooked-for stupidity on his part, and partly because his fellows so manifestly sided with him and were of his mindif you might call it mind. My position was simple enough, plain enough; how could it ever be simplified more? However, I must try:
"Why, look here, brother Dowley, don't you see? Your wages are merely higher than ours in name , not in fact ."
"Hear him! They are the doubleye have confessed it yourself."
"Yes-yes, I don't deny that at all. But that's got nothing to do with it; the amount of the wages in mere coins, with meaningless names attached to them to know them by, has got nothing to do with it. The thing is, how much can you buy with your wages?that's the idea. While it is true that with you a good mechanic is allowed about three dollars and a half a year, and with us only about a dollar and seventy-five"
"Thereye're confessing it again, ye're confessing it again!"
"Confound it, I've never denied it, I tell you! What I say is this. With us half a dollar buys more than a dollar buys with youand THEREFORE it stands to reason and the commonest kind of common-sense, that our wages are higher than yours."
He looked dazed, and said, despairingly:
"Verily, I cannot make it out. Ye've just said ours are the higher, and with the same breath ye take it back."
"Oh, great Scott, isn't it possible to get such a simple thing through your head?..."
[/ QUOTE ]
-- Mark Twain, [u]A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court[u]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With cloudy eye and a struggling intellect he fetched this out:
"Marry, I seem not to understand. It is proved that our wages be double thine; how then may it be that thou'st knocked therefrom the stuffing?an miscall not the wonderly word, this being the first time under grace and providence of God it hath been granted me to hear it."
Well, I was stunned; partly with this unlooked-for stupidity on his part, and partly because his fellows so manifestly sided with him and were of his mindif you might call it mind. My position was simple enough, plain enough; how could it ever be simplified more? However, I must try:
"Why, look here, brother Dowley, don't you see? Your wages are merely higher than ours in name , not in fact ."
"Hear him! They are the doubleye have confessed it yourself."
"Yes-yes, I don't deny that at all. But that's got nothing to do with it; the amount of the wages in mere coins, with meaningless names attached to them to know them by, has got nothing to do with it. The thing is, how much can you buy with your wages?that's the idea. While it is true that with you a good mechanic is allowed about three dollars and a half a year, and with us only about a dollar and seventy-five"
"Thereye're confessing it again, ye're confessing it again!"
"Confound it, I've never denied it, I tell you! What I say is this. With us half a dollar buys more than a dollar buys with youand THEREFORE it stands to reason and the commonest kind of common-sense, that our wages are higher than yours."
He looked dazed, and said, despairingly:
"Verily, I cannot make it out. Ye've just said ours are the higher, and with the same breath ye take it back."
"Oh, great Scott, isn't it possible to get such a simple thing through your head?..."
[/ QUOTE ]
-- Mark Twain, [u]A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court[u]
[/ QUOTE ]
Nice quote!
I just wonder if anyone's going to figure out what I meant by it.
It's intuitively obvious to the most casual reader: You meant that some people don't understand economics. I'm assuming you're referring to the devs, in this case.
[edited for typo]
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
A bit more specifically, I'm referring to the fact that amount and coinage are meaningless; all that matters is what you can get with what you make.
I'm making inf hand over fist right now because the Dowleys of our game are spending all their MA tickets on recipe rolls rather than uncommon salvage, which has consequently shot up to 500K on the market -- a market, incidentally, glutted with all the recipes they didn't want.
And the marginally brighter folks have, btw, also created a vast surplus of rare salvage. As soon as they finish kicking themselves for over-investing, they'll catch up to me and the market prices will equalize. They might be numerically higher than they were before, but that's irrelevant (see above).
Which means no more million inf-a-minute MA runs for me, but I'm not that dedicated to being wealthy anyway.
I post everything for 11 influence. And when I say everything, I mean everything from the most common tech salvage to purple recipes.
Only thing is...I've been in MA since it came out and I have nothing to post. Interesting how that works, no?
[ QUOTE ]
Devs? Start selling an infinite amount of every recipe and every bit of salvage at a set price for a 3 week period once every six months. Sell it where you think the prices should be.
[/ QUOTE ]
The devs have created the award system to give what they believe is the appropriate award for the appropriate amount of time.
If the devs wanted those items to be sold at specific prices they would have created a store. They have not created a store. Thus, the devs do not want those items sold as specific prices.
If P then Q.
Not Q.
Therefore, Not P.
Modus Tollens.
[ QUOTE ]
Casual gamers won't need to farm money,
[/ QUOTE ]
Players don't need to farm to make money to afford these prices. Players need to sell items to afford to buy items. Due to the 10% market fee you need to find items of total value worth 10% more than what you want. It's that simple. If you want something and think you should be able to buy it than find something to sell. Anyone can find stuff to sell on the market. There is no need to farm.
[ QUOTE ]
and the market will be a happier place.
[/ QUOTE ]
If by "happier place" you mean "store" then I agree.
[ QUOTE ]
Common and Uncommon Salvage both took supply hits too.
I have an issue with that.
[/ QUOTE ] Then use tickets to roll for it. They are stupid cheap.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Common and Uncommon Salvage both took supply hits too.
I have an issue with that.
[/ QUOTE ] Then use tickets to roll for it. They are stupid cheap.
[/ QUOTE ]
/seconded. I've been splitting tickets between rolls and salvage, since I have most of the unlocks I want already (and if I need one of the few I don't have... what, one MA mission and it's available?)
I've most certainly been supplying the market.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Purples and the PvP recipes are a small volume part of the overall market.
They are the high priced end, and if there is one thing that history does tell us, the 'premium goods' like these will inflate faster than the baseline.
I don't have an issue with this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have a look at Common IO's, then.
You can be as snide as you like, but last time I went shopping there were few of them and they were far between. The prices for what was there were ridiculous. Why? Common and Uncommon Salvage both took supply hits too.
I have an issue with that.
[Edit: Common IO's and Common and Uncommon salvage represent the bulk of the market's volume. Any game design that compromises their production is a serious issue. That's incontrovertible.]
[/ QUOTE ]
Im making a fortune selling common IOs crafted from memory and using tickets for the salvage. Once people realise how lucrative it can be, those will come back
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Purples and the PvP recipes are a small volume part of the overall market.
They are the high priced end, and if there is one thing that history does tell us, the 'premium goods' like these will inflate faster than the baseline.
I don't have an issue with this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have a look at Common IO's, then.
You can be as snide as you like, but last time I went shopping there were few of them and they were far between. The prices for what was there were ridiculous. Why? Common and Uncommon Salvage both took supply hits too.
I have an issue with that.
[Edit: Common IO's and Common and Uncommon salvage represent the bulk of the market's volume. Any game design that compromises their production is a serious issue. That's incontrovertible.]
[/ QUOTE ]
Im making a fortune selling common IOs crafted from memory and using tickets for the salvage. Once people realise how lucrative it can be, those will come back
[/ QUOTE ]
This. This isn't a problem the Devs need to fix, it's a simple consequence of a disproportionate number of players playing the MA right now. Several of my lower-level characters have made millions by casually acquiring salvage with tickets and selling crafted IOs. It's economics and not even all that advanced economics.
No problem here. Player behavior en-masse creates a shortage, the smart player takes advantage of the decrease in supply and makes money off of the lazy player who'd rather just pay an inflated fee on the Market. That's always been the key to success in any game economy (or in any economy, for that matter, though games keep things relatively simple).
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
[ QUOTE ]
Devs? Start selling an infinite amount of every recipe and every bit of salvage at a set price for a 3 week period once every six months. [u]Sell it where you think the prices should be. [u]
.
.
.The prices for the three weeks will bottom out, [u]since the Devs recipes will be selling BELOW the hyperinflated prices the community is used to.[u]
[/ QUOTE ]
You make a very, very dangerous assumption. You don't know what the devs would consider a fair price. It could be substantially higher. Because the devs would know that since they have created a store, they've taken away the variability in achievement that inventions and the market is supposed to create.
You're forgetting that the drop rates determine how much wealth enters the system. The devs set those drop rates at a point where they would be happy with the amount of wealth entering the system. They gave merits as a sop to the person who just can't seem to follow Smurphy's advice but complains that they can't have nice things.
Inflation in a system like this is an opportunity, not a challenge. Get out of MA, run some TFs, sell some recipes/salvage/etc., get rich, buy what you want.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I'm sick and tired of this. I've got 5 people sending me PMs over how the farming situation isn't contributing to inflation, how inflation has nothing to do with the amount of money in the system, that the money entering the system is totally stable, just like the amount of recipes...
I'm sick of it.
Someone who will remain nameless sent me a PM about the market price fluctuations and we got into it over the casual gamer versus the hardcore gamer... So here's a nice money sink.
Devs? Start selling an infinite amount of every recipe and every bit of salvage at a set price for a 3 week period once every six months. Sell it where you think the prices should be.
That's it. That's all.
All the money that goes to the Dev accounts should be liquidated immediately afterward, destroyed by deleting the character.
The prices for the three weeks will bottom out, since the Devs recipes will be selling BELOW the hyperinflated prices the community is used to. Casual gamers won't need to farm money, and the market will be a happier place.
Flipping will be nearly impossible, of course...
-Rachel-