Live Feedback: Issue 14: PvP Enhancement Sets
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2009-04-16 14:16 in Developers' Corner
Subjective feedback: These aren't dropping nearly often enough. I've had 1 drop after 632 kills. Also, some appear to drop more often than others (the shield wall unique for example appears to be very rare based on how many have gone through the market).
These sets are in demand in plain old PVE because they are just as useful in PVE as any other set is - whether or not the person using the set will ever PVP at all.
Objective observation: That demand, combined with the limited source of them, drives the prices sky high.
Subjective opinion on fixing that: feed their PVE demand with some kind of PVE source. I'd be willing to buy them with Merits/Tickets at twice the price of the TF/Trial rolls. (I'd pay that much because they're a very small pool, so a good chance of success.)
I am grateful that they are available because they are in some ways more powerful than purples (not all, of course) in pvp, but the drop frequency is too low for receiving them given the danger of being in pvp. I have spent many hours in pvp killing mobs blue to red, and I still have not found more than 1 since i14. My drop frequency for purple is higher than this where no risk is involved.
These sets are a great way to reward players for using the arena and PvP zones the way they were intended. Please, PLEASE, do not give in to people asking for these sets to be made available from other means. To do so would completely defeat their purpose.
I agree, it's nice that they reward pvp. I do feel that the reward rate needs to be increased though.
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These sets are a great way to reward players for using the arena and PvP zones the way they were intended. Please, PLEASE, do not give in to people asking for these sets to be made available from other means. To do so would completely defeat their purpose.
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well, the alternative to what I said above would be to remove the PVE demand. I think having more items available to PVE is better than narrowing these to PVP-ONLY recipes. YMMV.
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<ul type="square">[*] Fury of the Gladiator (Melee AoE Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[/list]
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...melee AoE?
Read as mud pots char etc...
I think for the rate of how long it takes to get them ( which I am fine with) they should get rid of the 10 min timer because if your lucky enough to get two within 10 min, why not. I like the system because I mostly pvp and its a good way to make extra cash.
To further my subjective feedback that the rate needs to be increased: There has been one shield wall unique that has gone through the redside market. That's including all level ranges, recipes and enhancements. Only one.
Actually that's a good point. There is no reason whatsoever to have the 10 minute restriction when it is so dang hard to obtain one.
I would prefer to see the drop rate go higher in a high-risk zone rather than drop the 10 minute timer, but keeping both is kind of silly.
Yep. A MM killed a Tanker in RV the other day and got a Shield Wall: +Res +TP Res Put it up in BM crafted for 150M and sold right away for 302M. Lucky [censored].
Subjective Feedback
I would like to see a chance to earn these enhancements upon being defeated by another player (Say about half the chance of getting one if you defeat another player). It would encourage a mentality of "It doesn't matter if you win and lose, as long as you play the game". It would encourage players who are new to the system ("Oh geez I got my butt kicked but I got this great enhacnement that dropped so now I can slot this and do better next time!") and generally encourage people to finish fights to the bitter end instead of the hit and run tactics.
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
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Subjective Feedback
I would like to see a chance to earn these enhancements upon being defeated by another player (Say about half the chance of getting one if you defeat another player). It would encourage a mentality of "It doesn't matter if you win and lose, as long as you play the game". It would encourage players who are new to the system ("Oh geez I got my butt kicked but I got this great enhacnement that dropped so now I can slot this and do better next time!") and generally encourage people to finish fights to the bitter end instead of the hit and run tactics.
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I like this idea. Though if it were institued this is the one that should have the 10 min timer.
I'd call this a combo of subjective/objective....
What was the logic/though process behind creating the Javelin's Volley IO set and making it a PvP set, when (IMO) its demand for PvE will far outstrip its PvP demand ?
Here's my reasoning:
At some point in the past, the devs apparently decided that certain PBAoE IO sets weren't very well suited for "nuke" type powers, such as Nova and Inferno, probably because they had set aspects that are somewhat less useful to nukes, such as End Redux and Range. Why put End Redux in a power that will eat all your End anyway ? And also, these sets lack significant amounts of Recharge.
Thus were created the sets "Obliteration" and "Eradication". Both sets are purely Accuracy, Damage, and Recharge, with exactly one IO offering a bit of End Redux.
But why were no equivalents to Obliteration and Eradication created for Targeted AoEs, such as Full Auto, Rain of Arrows, and Thunderous Blast ? We now have a situation where IO sets are available for the nukes only in certain Blaster sets.
But now we have Javelin's Volley - which is (surprise!) pretty much a clone of Obliteration/Eradication, but for Targeted AoEs. The fact that this is a PvP set will ensure a low supply of this set, while the demand for it will probably be very high and very constant.
My request then is for the devs to create a pair of non-PvP origin sets equvalent to Obliteration/Eradication for Targeted AoE.
HMO
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"They may be called Heroes, inasmuch as they have derived their purpose and their vocation, not from the calm regular course of things, sanctioned by the existing order; but from a concealed fount, from that inner Spirit, still hidden beneath the surface, which impinges on the outer world as on a shell and bursts it into pieces" - Some 20th Century person.
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These sets are a great way to reward players for using the arena and PvP zones the way they were intended. Please, PLEASE, do not give in to people asking for these sets to be made available from other means. To do so would completely defeat their purpose.
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well, the alternative to what I said above would be to remove the PVE demand. I think having more items available to PVE is better than narrowing these to PVP-ONLY recipes. YMMV.
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Or you could just not Cry and PVP, They are emplimenting these as a idea that Many MMOs use. Until now U have no reason to PVP, You don't really need these IOs as you more then powerful enough with out them. How ever if you want them, come and PVP with the big boys.
EXACTLY
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But now we have Javelin's Volley - which is (surprise!) pretty much a clone of Obliteration/Eradication, but for Targeted AoEs. The fact that this is a PvP set will ensure a low supply of this set, while the demand for it will probably be very high and very constant.
My request then is for the devs to create a pair of non-PvP origin sets equvalent to Obliteration/Eradication for Targeted AoE.
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Actually, based on my PvP drops so far, Javelin's Volley is extremely common compared to the other PvP IO sets, and hardly in demand by PvPers since targeted AoE attacks in PvP do lol dmg in i14... Therefore PvEers wont really be competing with PvPers for these IOs on the market, thus making them alot cheaper than the other sets.
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Or you could just not Cry and PVP,
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I'll thank you not to assume you know what my PVP habits are. I'll also apprciate you not labeling a rather reasonable question about market worth as "crying".
Let's assume for a moment I PVP a full 2 hours a day. So eventually I'll get some of these drops.
Will I get enough? Or will I have to still pick up some on the market, where the PVE demand raises their price? You see my issue? (Unless you want to somehow convince EVERYONE to PVP.)
What about when I get one? Will I use it? Or will I look at the price it fetches on the market and instead sell it? And I'm speaking from experience - I've sold things like Numina and LOTG more often than used them because of the amount of other IOs I can slot from that one drop.
My statement: the market price for these is so high, it's highlighting an imbalance, and making them less fun.
How do you address that? Well, WHY is the price bad? I'm claiming the price is bad because of PVE demand disproportionately comparing to low PVP-only supply. My PVPing alone will not fix the supply - I don't think *anyone* PVPing alone will fix it, given what we know about the percent of the game that wants to go near PVP. I suggested fixing supply by adding more supply elsewhere, which I think is better than fixing demand since the only way to make players reconsider wanting something is to nerf it.
(additionally: if you're wondering why I PVP but don't normally enter PVP discussions, it's cause they quickly take on attitudes like "stop crying" and "play with the big boys".)
subjective: why even have the mezz effect reduction in any of these sets???????? in 90% of pvp instances mezz/status/hold effects are already supressed to near worthlessness. i like the way you guys are thinking but, there really is no point in adding mezz/status/hold protection in any new pvp-centric IO sets.
The validity of your statment does not increase in direct proportion with the frequency and volume at which you speak it.
Clarification 1: earned in PVP zones by defeating players. Does this mean that these cannot be earned as drops from mobs in PVP zones.
Clarification 2: does the arena count as a PVP area as per these drops?
Objective: drop rates are too low thus driving the market prices to excess.
Objective: this type of leetloot for PVPcentric players, while in this case it does not put PVEcentric players at a major disadvantage, it will in the coming months raise the entry level cost of PVP. Reasoning: the PVP sets offer twice the set bonuses of normal sets. Therefore a player without the PVP sets will be at a dissadvantage in PVP until they earn the sets. Seeing as the drop rates are low, this puts new PVPers at a disadvantage. Therefore, in the long run this type of PVP only leetloot deters new PVPers while keeping the people that would PVP anyway still PVPing.
Subjective: having this limited number of sets detracts from the variety of PVP and the degree of specialization possible in the game, which is not a good thing.
Subjective: For PVE there seems to be little value in most of these sets, as intended I suppose, but also makes having a PVE build and PVP build on your character almost required. Nice that you can now switch between the two, but what's the point in making the PVE set bonuses of such little value that you can almost only slot them in a PVP only character?
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Does this mean that these cannot be earned as drops from mobs in PVP zones.
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correct, it's a players only drop
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drop rates are too low thus driving the market prices to excess.
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they're meant to be low, the Devs wanted them to be rare like purple drops
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makes having a PVE build and PVP build on your character almost required.
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outside of standard enhancements, nothing is ever required.
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but what's the point in making the PVE set bonuses of such little value that you can almost only slot them in a PVP only character?
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pretty much agree with this, the PvE set bonuses are 'meh' at best, that 11% accuracy bonus for 6 slotting sure makes up for the rest of the crap...woo!
Objective:
Are these pvp sets limited to the max set bonus of 5 like normal sets or are they like the purples. I see alot of repeting mods and don't know if you can only build a few of these sets because of the set bonus cap or if they are exempt from this cap. ie +2.5 end recovery is on almost every pvp set so will this cap at 5 instances of +2.5 end recovery? and how does it affect normal set bonuses of +2.5 end recovery such as impervium armor?
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Subjective Feedback
I would like to see a chance to earn these enhancements upon being defeated by another player (Say about half the chance of getting one if you defeat another player). It would encourage a mentality of "It doesn't matter if you win and lose, as long as you play the game". It would encourage players who are new to the system ("Oh geez I got my butt kicked but I got this great enhacnement that dropped so now I can slot this and do better next time!") and generally encourage people to finish fights to the bitter end instead of the hit and run tactics.
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This is actually a really good idea. You might even increase participation in PvP with something like this.
Use the following topic to discuss Live Feedback: Issue 14: PvP Origin Enhancements.
PvP Origin Enhancements
PvP Invention Origin Enhancement recipes have a small chance to be earned in all PvP Zones and Arena matches by defeating another player. Once a PvP IO recipe has been earned, there is a 10 minute timer before the player that earned the recipe can have a chance at earning another recipe. PvP Invention Origin Enhancements have two groups of set bonuses PvE bonuses and PvP bonuses. In a PvE zone/area the player will not benefit from set bonuses marked with (PvP). While in a PvP zone or arena match the player will benefit from both PvE and PvP set bonuses. Below is a list of the new IO sets being introduced by this feature:
<ul type="square">[*] Fury of the Gladiator (Melee AoE Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Javelin's Volley (Ranged AoE Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Gladiator's Armor (Resistance Buff Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Gladiator's Javelin (Ranged Damage Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Gladiator's Net (Hold Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Gladiator's Strike (Melee Damage Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Panacea (Healing Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[*] Shield Wall (Defense Buff Set) (Recipe Level Range 10-50)[/list]Additional PvP IO Notes:
<ul type="square">[*] Gladiator's Armor: +Defense and Teleport Resist now has a 20% chance to grant immunity to teleportation for 10 seconds instead of always on total immunity.[*] Shield Wall: +Resistance and Teleport Resist now has a 20% chance to grant immunity to teleportation for 10 seconds instead of always on total immunity.[*] Panacea: Chance for Heal/Endurance: This enhancement will function normally in PvE zones, however in PvP zones this power will grant a regeneration bonus much like Numina's Convalescence: +Regen/Recovery. This was done to prevent healing suppression from being triggered by this effect.[/list]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feedback is important to our development process, there are two types of feedback and both are helpful although some give us more insight and are more easily adapted into game changes.
Objective Feedback: Objective feedback is based upon what you as a user see or experience that other users may also see and experience. This feedback usually can be replicated easily as it involves facts and unbiased opinions. Example: When using the base editor items are sometimes getting caught in columns or pillars.
Subjective Feedback: Subjective feedback is based upon how you feel or experience the game as yourself. This experience may not necessarily be replicated because it is based on feeling and emotion. Subjective feedback is important to us but it is usually helpful if more information is present to describe what and why you feel the way you do. Example: I like the way the graphics look on my shield animation it gives me the feeling of being truly super-powered.
Are you reporting a bug from Issue 14? Please use the Issue 14: Architect: BUGS! thread to report bugs, there is a format in the OP that you can follow to help you in your reporting.