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Well dang, didn't realise I had mis set the police patrols, fixed.
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I figured thats what happened.
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Many of the jokes are ribs on the furry community, so if you didn't get them... you are probably better off for it! I've played through the entire arc on level 2, and in a six man group, and we managed ok, though it helps to remember to focus on the masterminds rather than their pets. Is it really overly hard? Might consider changing the Guardian Paw off of devices, as the webnade fury can get annoying after a while.
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The only times it became overly hard was when multiples of the MM minions showed up. On the first mission an ambush caused this to happen. Last mission while fighting your Kitten a patrol walked in with 2 of them...
I find that MM sets in the hands of minions can and does create a situation of too much at once. Look at other minion/luet level foes who summon. The rikti, skyraiders, malta....when they summon there is a way to stop it. The only foes I know of who can summon while being hit are AV/EB and one groups Bosses (carnies). The MA summons happen right away and uninterruptable.
The web nade thing, well I include it with the minion level MM, blast sets attacking while mezzed and Melee/Nin authors use in the MA. Its frustrating and unfun. At least to me.
Edited to include:
Your arc is a niche arc...meaning it appeals or only relates to a certain section of the playerbase. Now there is nothing wrong with this at all but it does affect ratings becuase only that section will find the jokes or plot interesting/funny.
To me the arc did not hold my attention at all. I am sure it will others. Don't give up on it.
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If nothing was different but the name of the AV, it would still have been bad writing. It just wouldn't be a Mary Sue, at least not as I define it.
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What DO you define as a Mary Sue, then? TVTropes defines it as a (female) character that is just perfect, wonderful, is great at everything, has no flaws, and is just the best! That doesn't seem like Tanya Atta to me.
[/ QUOTE ]Mary Sue is like Porn. It's something many people are sensitive to, even oversensitive to, apply in the wrong place, and can't define well. Doesn't mean I can't put my finger on it when I see it.
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If nothing was different but the name of the AV, it would still have been bad writing. It just wouldn't be a Mary Sue, at least not as I define it.
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What DO you define as a Mary Sue, then? TVTropes defines it as a (female) character that is just perfect, wonderful, is great at everything, has no flaws, and is just the best! That doesn't seem like Tanya Atta to me.
[/ QUOTE ]Mary Sue is like Porn. It's something many people are sensitive to, even oversensitive to, apply in the wrong place, and can't define well. Doesn't mean I can't put my finger on it when I see it.
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In other words, it's a very subjective term that people like to throw about whenever a character offends them yet it has no real meaning in itself.
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Well dang, didn't realise I had mis set the police patrols, fixed.
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I figured thats what happened.
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Many of the jokes are ribs on the furry community, so if you didn't get them... you are probably better off for it! I've played through the entire arc on level 2, and in a six man group, and we managed ok, though it helps to remember to focus on the masterminds rather than their pets. Is it really overly hard? Might consider changing the Guardian Paw off of devices, as the webnade fury can get annoying after a while.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only times it became overly hard was when multiples of the MM minions showed up. On the first mission an ambush caused this to happen. Last mission while fighting your Kitten a patrol walked in with 2 of them...
I find that MM sets in the hands of minions can and does create a situation of too much at once. Look at other minion/luet level foes who summon. The rikti, skyraiders, malta....when they summon there is a way to stop it. The only foes I know of who can summon while being hit are AV/EB and one groups Bosses (carnies). The MA summons happen right away and uninterruptable.
The web nade thing, well I include it with the minion level MM, blast sets attacking while mezzed and Melee/Nin authors use in the MA. Its frustrating and unfun. At least to me.
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Ok, I gave the guardian paws super strength instead, and toned down the kungfu kitty's assortment of bone crushing kicks. You think the crowd pleasers should be bumped up to Lt? Maybe switch them with the guardian paws, that would make sense. I'll do that.
One thing I was wondering when you were reviewing, did you check anything's info? I set info on all those custom mobs. Also, with the bank, what should I have done besides the briefcase? Ideas are welcome!
No, that would be the other, sillier extreme. Mary Sueism is about attitude, intent, and execution. There are a number of ways you can check for MS Status without it needing a hard, laid-down set of rules to prove the Sueish or Unsueish nature of a character. For a start, does the character actually demonstrate virtues, or do people or narration merely claim they demonstrate those virtues? Does the character have a clear reason to be sympathetic, or are we told to be? Is the character more important and more powerful than anyone else?
Now, I actually resist the idea of using Mary Sue in fiction since it's a fanfiction phenomenon. What you call a Mary Sue character in an original fiction is 'awful,' it doesn't merit a specific term.
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If nothing was different but the name of the AV, it would still have been bad writing. It just wouldn't be a Mary Sue, at least not as I define it.
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What DO you define as a Mary Sue, then? TVTropes defines it as a (female) character that is just perfect, wonderful, is great at everything, has no flaws, and is just the best! That doesn't seem like Tanya Atta to me.
[/ QUOTE ]Mary Sue is like Porn. It's something many people are sensitive to, even oversensitive to, apply in the wrong place, and can't define well. Doesn't mean I can't put my finger on it when I see it.
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Well, here's a Wikipedia definition:
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Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".
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And a helpful list from the Encyclopedia Dramatica:
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Telltale signs of a Mary Sue include:
Character is written as a relation to some canon character, long lost cousin, sister, or fan-created child of said canon character(s), etc.
Fan uses a handle giving herself the surname of some canon character she likes
Character has same last name as canon character the fan likes, giving away a fan-created familial connection to a canon character.
Is written as sexually attractive or attracted to some canon character.
Eyes that change color, hair that takes more than five words to describe.
Speshul magik powers (even in fanons or games where magic doesnt exist).
Gigantic angel/devil/demon/dragon wings.
Ability to master anything with ease.
Common names with unusual spellings (i.e. Faery, Ravyn, Jennifyr, Aeris, Elizabetteth Honey Moon)
Names that are overused or meant to describe an appearance or object in connection with the character - Raven, Ebony, Luna, Anya, Mia or Mia Mya, Canina, Felina.
Names with 'k's and 'y's stuck in odd places.
Names that are a combination of the above characteristics - Sylke, Kat.
Cute baby version of an imaginary creature for a pet (baby ancient dragon, baby griffon, baby unicorn, baby great Cthulhu)
The ability to make male canon (and original) characters fall instantly in love with them. Or, failing that, just simply having the author play god to force the story to bend for them.
Sparkles where there shouldn't be sparkles.
TL;DR: A "perfect" character that supercedes everybody in looks, personality, etc.
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@Demobot
Also on Steam
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Ok, I gave the guardian paws super strength instead, and toned down the kungfu kitty's assortment of bone crushing kicks. You think the crowd pleasers should be bumped up to Lt? Maybe switch them with the guardian paws, that would make sense. I'll do that.
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Kitty wasn't a problem...was suprised at the speed it took me down the first time i saw one is all.
The Guardian Paws with Ss could work...its a S/L set making it more in line with low levels....similar to mooks now in power level.
The MM's as Lt is a bit better, makes them spawn less.
As far as the briefcase...I am not sure. I havn't looked over the destructable items closely. There are crates I know that....maybe one of those. Maybe just toss that goal out and make it a fight to the boss in the bank, with ambushes set along the way.
It's the last mission that needs the most work IMO...way too many goals on a too large map.
Edited to include:
Forgot to reply to this part.
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One thing I was wondering when you were reviewing, did you check anything's info? I set info on all those custom mobs. Also, with the bank, what should I have done besides the briefcase? Ideas are welcome!
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When I review an arc I read everything I can. Thats not to say I don't lose focus for a minute and forget something (missed the info on Enigma Silver 6-3 in Ventures arc...playing again to read it.)
I commented on them very briefly with the TL-DR saying they were uninteresting. Sorry.
I hereby submit for review my arc, Every Rose (#17702). You might want to try it on a low level villain; that's what it is designed for. It is also slanted toward Magic characters in that it revolves around joining the Circle of Thorns rather than Arachnos.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I have set up my own list of arcs I am playing to review.
Currently the list is:
3962/4804, 45503, 55098, 8928
I will cap my list at 10 arcs and other than obvious 2 parters I will only have one arc by a single author at a time.
Now if anyone dosn't want me to review your arc let me know. I understand I am relativly unknown around here so you won't hurt my feelings.
I really think this thread is a good idea and would only be better with multiple reviewers including counterpoint reviewers, as long as they don't become combative.
Sure, see what you do with 1992 or 2595. Pick one or the other, I have no preference.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Like Vanden, I'd love any feedback I can get for my arc.
ID 38226, If you teach a man to make a fish. Link in my signature.
Throw me in the queue for anyone to review.
Arc Name: The Unmaking, Part 1: Entropic Ascension (yes, it's a long name)
Arc ID: 46405
Faction: Heroic
Creator Global/Forum Name: @Ocyron/Juunana
Difficulty Level: Soloable (recommended level range is 36+)
Synopsis: The Banished Pantheon have unleashed an entity that threatens to throw Paragon City into a darkness from which it may never recover. Can you stop this threat before its corruption consumes the city?
Estimated Time to Play: 45 minutes to an hour perhaps?
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Arc #29825, "Shadowlight: Part I"
tl;dr: 2 stars. Offenses: "just a bunch of stuff that happens", weak plot, semi-surprise EBs
N.B. this arc needed to be republished, changing its number...it did not jump the queue.
Your Contact this time is an Aspect of the Pillar, labelled "Time Crystal". It tells you that an organization of time-travelling thieves called "Shadowlight" is stealing artifacts from the past. A raid has been tracked down and you're being sent in to defeat its leader. The Shadowlight mobs are golems named after chess pieces. The "Pawn Axeman" model was minimum size, I actually overlooked the first one. The only thing you find is an unimportant silver ring...the raid leader, an LT, tells you they've already moved the artifact.
For the next mission, the crystal says that interrogation of the captured Rook from the last run has led "them" (whoever "they" are is not explained at this point...watching out for the Idiot Ball...) to a Shadowlight fortress where you should be able to swipe records of their raids. This was a straightforward glowie hunt on a tech map, which seemed a little out of place for the magical-themed faction (the mobs are mostly golems). This one had a "Bishop Illusionist" Boss using Illusion/Pain Domination. The debriefing says that the artifacts recently stolen shouldn't be dangerous to you, and that if you were powerful enough to retrieve the data you should be powerful enough to retrieve the items. This doesn't really follow....
For the next mission you are told to take on a Knight of Shadowlight who has one of the stolen items. You are told after accepting the mission that you might want to get help. The Knight is currently meeting the Circle of Thorns for a deal. He turned out to be a Boss, Electric Blast/Electric Manipulation, I think, and not difficult at all. The Clues tell you he had the "Orb of Tesla" you were sent after, and an amulet that may have been the one stolen back in the first mission. If there was anything bigger on the map I didn't find it.
For Part IV you are sent after "Robin Hood's Bow", which is currently in the hands of another Knight. You are also told that "they" can't get the location of the Shadowlight time portal out of the last Knight you captured because our laws prevent them from using torture to find out. Um, yeah. You are again warned to bring a friend. The mission takes place on the "burning forest" map, and again, the target is just a Boss, TA/A this time. In the debriefing the crystal says "they" will "extreme rendition" the Knight you just captured. Um, yeah.
In the finale, after waterboarding fails to get any useful info out of the last Knight, you are sent after "Arch Bishop Fianchetto", who is using Da Vinci's Code^H^H^H^HPen to draw up plans for all kinds of Bad Things. Fianchetto is said to be one of the big cheeses in Shadowlight and the constructor of the Gate you've been looking for. You're also told to bring a friend, again after accepting, and to destroy any supplies (there are 6 of them, destructable objects). Immediately on entering I was hit by an Electric Melee/Electric Armor Boss that dropped me in two hits thanks to BuildUp. It went down quickly on the rematch. Fianchetto was a Bots/Electric Blast EB, spawned at +2, and didn't last long (he only ever summoned the Assault Bot). His dialog was less than stellar:
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: Faster, faster! King Staunton wants this thing finished within the month.
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: Venture, You've just saved me the trouble of having to find you.
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: Surely you can do better then that.
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: You realize your chances of winning are only 3% I hope.
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: Did I say 3%? I meant more like 0%!
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: Your starting to make me angry...
[NPC] Arch Bishop Fianchetto: How could this happen? We were going to be the rulers of time...
Mostly said while he was looking at the ceiling.
The Crystal thanks you for capturing the Arch Bishop and says "For all we know you may have prevented the end of the universe. Then again, you may have just recovered some artifacts. Who knows? We shall see that the pen is returned to its rightful place." Um, yeah.
The arc is fairly mediocre, lacking in theme or any kind of gravitas. The Shadowlight faction is poorly explained. Many of the mobs are said to be golems, and the faction has a clear interest in magical artifacts, but the maps and last mission all imply a technological faction. The people you're working for are even more obscure, setting up the possibility for a big Idiot Ball toss later in the series.
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Let's see what I can respond to...I'll try to do it in the order you posted.
Pawns are the smallest pieces in chess, hence their size. Also, the ring was supposed to be a bit of a joke...
I didn't realize you could change the contact name. Going to have to do that :P
As far as the whole tech thing in a magical theme, they aren't really magical themed, at least not in their entirety. They use technology to time travel and create some of their weapons, they use magic for the creation of minions and some other weapons. I see nothing wrong honestly with having an organization that isn't limited to the strict tech or strict magic theme. But if you really think it destroys the thing that bad I could switch it to all magic. It just doesn't seem to work as well =/ but I could be wrong.
I am unfamiliar with the Idiot Ball reference as well. I know you've used it for a few reviews, but I just don't get it :P
I may have to change that part of the text from the second mission. It was there back when I wrote it up the first time, and DID have plans to change it with the addition of another mission as well as some minor plot changes. I'm glad you pointed it out, it needed to go then and it still needs to go now. It was an attempt at the contact being sarcastic, but it's to hard for me to convey it through this medium sadly. A lot of the odd or seemingly out of place text from the contact was sarcasm 
As far as various things not being that difficult, I did that somewhat on purpose. I wanted my arc to be solo-able and I think I did that pretty well. The warning that you might want to bring a friend is simply because I have the difficulty on the bosses up at Extreme and some people characters may want to be a little more careful fighting them. Should I simply take out the warnings if they are under EB level?
I can easily change it to give you a "bring friends" warning before clicking accept :P
There was also nothing bigger on the third mission. It was simply a "stop the deal" mission.
I genuinely have no idea what that Da Vinci's Code ^H^H^H^ thing means. I never saw the movie or read the book, I only knew that Da Vinci was a great inventor and decided to give his pen the ability to inspire. Feel free to explain that one to me if you feel like it :P
Fianchetto was A LOT harder for me to fight (only level 20...) so if you can think of a good combo to show inventor that may be a tiny bit stronger for a higher level feel free to let me know. When I fought him he pulled out every robot right away so I figured they always did that. Being the first MM I've ever fought in MA I thought they ALL brought out pets right away. Apparently not...so he is going to need a power adjustment I think.
His lines can always be re-worked also if you think they're that bad. I thought they fit his personality quite well, didn't really realize they were so bad. They also make less sense if he doesn't spawn near the giant robot >_< meh...I would kill for being able to pick the placement of bosses.
The contact being obscure is done on purpose, you'll meet some of them in the second Arc (assuming I get this first one finished up without so many hitches).
Not sure how you want me to really explain Shadowlight THAT well, since you only have so much room for talking to your contact. Maybe in one of the still busy dialog boxes but otherwise...dunno really.
Anyway, thanks for the review. I'll be tweaking things a bit, but mostly waiting for a response before I do all that much in there.
I do however pout lol. You didn't say even one good thing about my Arc
If anyone feels like reviewing my arc, I humbly submit it for your comments - 6536 "Paragon High". It's only one mission and was edited a little based on anonymous player feedback.
I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
Hopefully there are some teams interested in doing AV type missions, I have not yet completed this because it seems all anyone wants to do is solo.... If it looks good like teams may play it, i'll finish it.
ARC ID : 53131
A Heroes Final Stand
Server : Freedom
Brief description, Lord Recluse is planning an invasion, you must question the generals of his army to get his location and stop the invasion.
What DO you define as a Mary Sue, then? TVTropes defines it as a (female) character that is just perfect, wonderful, is great at everything, has no flaws, and is just the best! That doesn't seem like Tanya Atta to me.
For my purposes here, a Mary Sue is a character of either sex that a) is an obvious stand-in for the author, which is adequately demonstrated by the character being one of the author's PCs or an Expy (thinly disguised version) of such, and b) is being repeatedly glorified by the arc, constantly telling us how powerful/intelligent/wonderful/special/etc. the character is.
Note the conjunct ("and"). Both conditions are necessary, neither independently is sufficient. My two mains, Venture and Starfall (from Virtue) appear in my arc "Chains of Blood" but strictly as guests. I did that deliberately to show what I thought was an acceptable use of one's own characters. I feel this offers a definite enough criterion to avoid Lazarus' charge of simply slapping a label on something I don't like.
Tanya Atta hits both conditions. She's the author's PC (has a nice big page on Virtueverse) and the arc repeatedly tells us how intelligent and powerful and special she is, even after you defeat her (Wincott says "how could you have defeated someone so powerful?") The fact that the script requires her to take a dirt nap at the end does not detract from her Sueness, especially since we all know she'll just leave the Cardboard Prison later. She also hits some of the items on the Encyclopedia Dramatica list: connection to canon character, "special" name, "special" powers (female Troll, AV status).
Also note that removing the connection to the author doesn't really fix the problem. It would make the character not a Mary Sue, but it would still be bad writing -- a "darling" that needs to be killed.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Please add #17702 to your queue, please.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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For my purposes here, a Mary Sue is a character of either sex that a) is an obvious stand-in for the author, which is adequately demonstrated by the character being one of the author's PCs or an Expy (thinly disguised version) of such, and b) is being repeatedly glorified by the arc, constantly telling us how powerful/intelligent/wonderful/special/etc. the character is.
[/ QUOTE ]I realize that's your personal criteria, but I'm just going to chip in here and say for me, only that second condition is necessary for me to consider a character a Mary Sue. Making the Mary Sue also be the author's character just makes the problem worse. (There are a couple of descriptive words I would use for it that would probably end up getting modded - suffice to say "pleasing to the self")
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Current queue:
45503, 55098, 8928, 1992 or 2595 (have not decided), 38226, 46405, 6536, 53131, 17702
I have room for one more before I cap the queue. As always if you do not what me to review your arc then let me know and I will take it off my list.
Savage War
Arc ID: 59152
Please don't murder me?
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What DO you define as a Mary Sue, then? TVTropes defines it as a (female) character that is just perfect, wonderful, is great at everything, has no flaws, and is just the best! That doesn't seem like Tanya Atta to me.
For my purposes here, a Mary Sue is a character of either sex that a) is an obvious stand-in for the author, which is adequately demonstrated by the character being one of the author's PCs or an Expy (thinly disguised version) of such, and b) is being repeatedly glorified by the arc, constantly telling us how powerful/intelligent/wonderful/special/etc. the character is.
Note the conjunct ("and"). Both conditions are necessary, neither independently is sufficient. My two mains, Venture and Starfall (from Virtue) appear in my arc "Chains of Blood" but strictly as guests. I did that deliberately to show what I thought was an acceptable use of one's own characters. I feel this offers a definite enough criterion to avoid Lazarus' charge of simply slapping a label on something I don't like.
Tanya Atta hits both conditions. She's the author's PC (has a nice big page on Virtueverse) and the arc repeatedly tells us how intelligent and powerful and special she is, even after you defeat her (Wincott says "how could you have defeated someone so powerful?") The fact that the script requires her to take a dirt nap at the end does not detract from her Sueness, especially since we all know she'll just leave the Cardboard Prison later. She also hits some of the items on the Encyclopedia Dramatica list: connection to canon character, "special" name, "special" powers (female Troll, AV status).
Also note that removing the connection to the author doesn't really fix the problem. It would make the character not a Mary Sue, but it would still be bad writing -- a "darling" that needs to be killed.
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Wow Venture, I completely concur.
When you start accepting story arcs for reviewing, I would like to submit my arc for consideration. I'm not afraid of critical criticism. Or if Hell_O_Ween wants to take a crack at it, just as well 
Info is in my sig.
Just a couple of questions here... what's the opposite (if there is such a thing) of a Mary Su? Would that be a character that is not a stand-in for the author and is repeatedly ridiculed by the arc?
If there is such a character-type, what is its name?
Also, please review my Arc #5349, Childhood Horrors. I'd like to know what you think.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
That would be a chew-toy if the universe pisses on them, a buttmonkey if the characters piss on them, a woobie if you're supposed to feel bad about their plight, and... damnit, trying to remember the Mary Sue inversion. There's another type who basically do everything a Sue does while the Suethor tries to tell you how ugly, plain, and unpleasant they are. You could consider most everything that Frank Miller's ever done in that category.
Arc #6999, "Seekers of the Grail"
tl;dr: 3 stars. Offenses: weak plot, Contact deals in bad faith, overpowered mobs
Your Contact is Lancelot...I don't know if he's that Lancelot because he says that secrecy is vital and his brethren are not ready, etc. His costume is a bit on the garish side, a mixture of gold and bright blues and reds, though I realise that's a pretty subjective thing. He wants you to investigate some new group calling itself the "Seekers".
Entering a warehouse, I first ran into an "Arthur's Sword" Minion (BS/Shield) and "Merlyn's Adept" LT (Necro/Dark). Next was an "Arthur's Guard" LT (Mace/Shield) who popped BuildUp and promptly whacked me for 1036 points. He did spawn as a +2 but this still seems a bit much for an LT. I quickly ran into an "Arthur's Arrow" Minion with Archery...no idea what the second set might be. Finding the target computer triggers a new objective, "defeat the boss". The Boss is "Arthur's Wrath", a Mind Control/Empath. The bio says the Wrath agents are rumored to be telepathically linked to "Arthur". Lancelot gets angry when you tell him the goons use Arthur's name.
You are next sent to a ship (...) being used as a mobile command post by "Bors", one of Arthur's top men. You are warned that he's a powerhouse, and there is even a "WARNING: this mission contains an Elite Boss" at the end of the briefing. (Nit: would be better presented in-character and/or with color so it stands out.) What you are not told until after you accept is that it's a timed mission...30 minutes to reach and defeat an EB at the back of a ship map. I hit stealth and flew past it all, of course. I spotted one Boss spawn, another Wrath, and then another Wrath...right next to Bors. I hit a Luck and Elusive Mind and went in swinging. I managed to drop the Wrath without agroing Bors, then took on him and his (largeish) spawn. Bors is an Axe wielder, and I'm not sure what his second set is. In any case, he didn't have any -KB and was easy pickings. In any case putting the Boss spawn potentially so close is likely to be problematic for many. Afterwards Lancelot tells you that you've confirmed his greatest fears and he must leave to seek his brethren, but has something for you to do first.
That something is to go to another Seeker base to try to find out what happened to the previous hero he asked to help him. Nice time to find out the job's already killed someone, maybe.... The hero "Krieg" (Boss, /info says he's "weakened by captivity") turned out to be alive and triggered a new objective to "Find Merlyn's Tome". He's an escort so I took him to the entrance, but he didn't leave. He wouldn't fight after that so I never found out what his powers were. He did appear to be running a Willpower toggle. The map was an office-to-caves number; the first spawn point in the caves had a large Boss spawn overlapped with a second spawn, the lot becoming much more "fun" after the Wrath cast Regen Aura on everyone.... The new objective was a a "Merlyn's Altar" with a large spawn around it. Evidently the objective was to protect the altar, because defeating the initial spawn around it cleared the mission. (There were a few mobs left from an ambush.) The Clues assume that you take Krieg to the altar and then escape...since the altar is a required objective it would be better to drop the escort portion of Krieg's objective.
The tome not only tells you where Merlyn is but also tells how the entity behind this is something Merlyn summoned but couldn't control, so he submitted to it, and that he convinced it to use the Arthurian myths as a mask. When you get back, Lancelot confesses that he doesn't have an army coming to back you up and you're the city's last hope. In the briefing for the next mission he says he is that Lancelot, that this "entity" is something the Knights of the Round Table fought, and that the "Merlyn" working with "Arthur" is not that Merlyn. He's sent Krieg ahead to Merlyn's location. At this point you are working for someone who has consistently lied to you and left another hero out to dry.... In the accepted text he goes on to say Merlin put all the Knights into suspended animation, set to awake when the "entity" returned, but they don't have the power to compete with superhumans now.
The first target at the base is "Galahad", a Dual Blades/Super Reflexes. He's surrounded by another huge spawn, which included one of the Adept Necro/Darks and one of the Guards, the ones who hit for 1K+. I got caught in a fear off the Necro and faceplanted (it didn't help that I couldn't see the Adept cast a Tar Patch, causing instant interrupts on Aid Self). Defeating Galahad triggered the Defeat Merlyn objective (and gave me a Clue with a misspelled title -- "Galasad". At least I hope that's a typo and not a very bad pun.) Krieg was available as an Ally but I bypassed him. I ran into another four Arthur's Wrath spawns, the first of which was a +2. I popped Elusive Mind and took it out, then stealthed the other three because they weren't listed as objectives. Merlyn himself was a Fire Blast/Force Field; he opened with Inferno, as is usual these days...and missed. On his defeat (which the Clue says is a death, hope you don't have a code versus killing...), Merlyn admits there is no grail (which I thought we'd already established) and with Merlyn gone the Seekers will be weakened as he was partly responsible for enthralling the goons.
The last mission is an assignment to take out "Arthur", whom is said to be an AV. Krieg has gone ahead again. It's an Oranbega map, a large one.... I took down a frontloaded Wrath, and bypassed three more. Krieg spawned on the upper level of one of the big rooms, I left him there. I got dirtnapped later on by a 1252 hit from an LT in the Big Bad's room. "Arthur" turned out to be a Broadsword/Shield AV (EB) who dropped me in the first heat when Practiced Bralwer's autocast interrupted my Aid Self just before I took a 1200 point Head Splitter. (N.B. -- the Big Bad hits about as hard as the Lieutenants.) I took him down in the rematch. His defeat Clue says the armor was empty (typo: "faught") and you can't help but feel he's not gone forever.
Lancelot thanks you, tells you that we still don't know who or what the entity was, and that its enslaved goons will slowly return to their normal lives.
The arc does invoke the Arthurian legends, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea. There are probably dozens of bios on each server that involve those stories leading to some potential backlash from fervent RPers, not helped by the fact that it plays loose and fast with them. The Contact deals with the player in bad faith; the arc doesn't really throw the Idiot Ball but it would take a big leap of faith for someone to keep working with Lancelot by act IV. An additional issue is that we never really see the Seekers doing anything bad. We don't bust up a robbery by them, recover stolen goods from them, rescue hostages intended for mind control, etc. We never find out who "Merlyn" really was or what "Arthur" really was. It's pretty clear from the dialog that the Seekers are bad guys, but without that it's as if you've been handed a gun and told to walk into the next room and shoot the first person you see. The arc is Boss-heavy at points but I wouldn't mark down for that; I'm just noting it for the benefit of squishier builds. The Arthur's Guard LTs, however, are way over the top.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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If nothing was different but the name of the AV, it would still have been bad writing. It just wouldn't be a Mary Sue, at least not as I define it.
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What DO you define as a Mary Sue, then? TVTropes defines it as a (female) character that is just perfect, wonderful, is great at everything, has no flaws, and is just the best! That doesn't seem like Tanya Atta to me.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.