[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Devices. it doesn't appeal to a large percentage of players, but, there is another sizable percentage that loves the set (myself included) who would be extremely upset if drastic changes were made to it because the other half of the population wanted more burst damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think so as well. But there is a good reason why players want more burst damage. This is just a consequence of the overall design of the game. The game is probably a bit easy, so most of the teams are about killing faster. And a lot of the strategies, tactics and character building are centered on killing faster or help to kill faster. There are tough content in the game, but once players figure it out, it's also about killing faster.
[ QUOTE ]
True story. I have a Stealth IO in Hover (my sonic/devices hasn't walked anywhere in close to a year, his legs will atrophy soon) Nothing except Rikti Drones and snipers ever sees me.
[/ QUOTE ]
After introduction of IO, some of the characteristics of device can be acquired through IO, for example targeting drone and cloaking device. Blasters don't need to go to device for such features. One can argue that IO bonus can add on top of device abilities. But I think it's true to a certain extent that device lost some of its attractiveness now.
Finally, I just want to make a couple comments on device, and not replying to anybody in particular. I think device can be made very fun. For example, gun drone can be made a mastermind-type pet that blasters can send to somewhere and control its attacks. I guess most people will say no, but I think such bot fits the theme of the powerset. And I think it's probably better just to let us time the timed bomb. Rather than automatically detonating after 15 sec, let us decide when to detonate (of coz, the bomb has to be nerfed in some way such that we can't get a cheap nuke, for example make it low accuracy, or make it a debuff bomb rather than damage bomb). This will keep its original flavor but will be more useful in a general situation as well.
i dont know what this conversation has consisted of... i made a sonic/devices... love it.... Sonic blast is the new fotm...
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
[ QUOTE ]
After introduction of IO, some of the characteristics of device can be acquired through IO, for example targeting drone and cloaking device. Blasters don't need to go to device for such features. One can argue that IO bonus can add on top of device abilities. But I think it's true to a certain extent that device lost some of its attractiveness now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe among the farmers who can afford to spend the huge amounts of Inf needed for such sets. For us regular Blasters, /Devices is great and, if we were able to duplicate some of the abilities (though never all) of the abilities via IO sets, it wouldn't be until very late in the character's life, anyways.
[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I just want to make a couple comments on device, and not replying to anybody in particular. I think device can be made very fun. For example, gun drone can be made a mastermind-type pet that blasters can send to somewhere and control its attacks. I guess most people will say no, but I think such bot fits the theme of the powerset. And I think it's probably better just to let us time the timed bomb. Rather than automatically detonating after 15 sec, let us decide when to detonate (of coz, the bomb has to be nerfed in some way such that we can't get a cheap nuke, for example make it low accuracy, or make it a debuff bomb rather than damage bomb). This will keep its original flavor but will be more useful in a general situation as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Omega Maneuver is how Time Bomb SHOULD be.
Gun Drone is fine as a pet, the only problem with it is the ridiculous 6 second interruptible summons animation. Drop it to a short uninterruptible wrist phone summons like Force Field Generator, and Gun Drone would be an excellent power.
Those two changes would make Devices clearly excellent.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After introduction of IO, some of the characteristics of device can be acquired through IO, for example targeting drone and cloaking device. Blasters don't need to go to device for such features. One can argue that IO bonus can add on top of device abilities. But I think it's true to a certain extent that device lost some of its attractiveness now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe among the farmers who can afford to spend the huge amounts of Inf needed for such sets. For us regular Blasters, /Devices is great and, if we were able to duplicate some of the abilities (though never all) of the abilities via IO sets, it wouldn't be until very late in the character's life, anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
What? Thunderstrikes, especially mid-level ones can be pretty cheap. For most sets that have 3 ranged attacks thats 21% bonus to accuracy right there, plus for how cheap it is to frankenslot to get superior accuracy slotted in each attack if you wanted to continue to be cheap about it. Add on the kimset unique in combat jumping. Very easy to bypass the need for targetting drone.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After introduction of IO, some of the characteristics of device can be acquired through IO, for example targeting drone and cloaking device. Blasters don't need to go to device for such features. One can argue that IO bonus can add on top of device abilities. But I think it's true to a certain extent that device lost some of its attractiveness now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe among the farmers who can afford to spend the huge amounts of Inf needed for such sets. For us regular Blasters, /Devices is great and, if we were able to duplicate some of the abilities (though never all) of the abilities via IO sets, it wouldn't be until very late in the character's life, anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also, Targeting Drone gives you To-Hit Debuff resistance, which I don't think you can get from IOs. And yes, you can get stealth from IOs easily enough, but with Cloaking Device, you can get virtual invisibility, letting you boombox amidst mobs if you want. Some people will say "you don't need CD because Superspeed and an IO gives you that", but that's assuming you take Superspeed. My AR/Dev has Superjump. Adding the stealth IO to Combat Jumping lets it stack with Cloaking Device and give him invisibility.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
[ QUOTE ]
Omega Maneuver is how Time Bomb SHOULD be.
Gun Drone is fine as a pet, the only problem with it is the ridiculous 6 second interruptible summons animation. Drop it to a short uninterruptible wrist phone summons like Force Field Generator, and Gun Drone would be an excellent power.
Those two changes would make Devices clearly excellent.
[/ QUOTE ]
Time bomb is fine as it is. Its very very nice for the soloist. Gun drone really needs help though especially in this I14 kind of world. Bringing it down to 1 second non interruptible would be great. This would give the devices blaster a team friendly not quite build up.
IMO as a fire/dev blaster from way back...
Devices works fine if you want to solo.
You can go all stalkerish with CD and a stealth IO if you want and ignore the trash mobs.
You can lay down minefields, call your gun drone and with the utter stealth plant a timebomb with no one looking at you.
But it takes TIME.
If you are soloing it can add to your surviveability, If you are in a group you will never use 3/4 of your device abilities, simply because the group is speeding on. Strategy? Why? This game is ridiculously easy, Zerg everything who needs planning?
And honestly? Even soloing, you would be better off with a more hard hitting secondary, because its all about making them really dead before they make you that way. You MAY have a slightly higher mortality rate, but you will be going through missions much faster, and when you get a group, at least using some of your secondary abilities.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After introduction of IO, some of the characteristics of device can be acquired through IO, for example targeting drone and cloaking device. Blasters don't need to go to device for such features. One can argue that IO bonus can add on top of device abilities. But I think it's true to a certain extent that device lost some of its attractiveness now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe among the farmers who can afford to spend the huge amounts of Inf needed for such sets. For us regular Blasters, /Devices is great and, if we were able to duplicate some of the abilities (though never all) of the abilities via IO sets, it wouldn't be until very late in the character's life, anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also, Targeting Drone gives you To-Hit Debuff resistance, which I don't think you can get from IOs. And yes, you can get stealth from IOs easily enough, but with Cloaking Device, you can get virtual invisibility, letting you boombox amidst mobs if you want. Some people will say "you don't need CD because Superspeed and an IO gives you that", but that's assuming you take Superspeed. My AR/Dev has Superjump. Adding the stealth IO to Combat Jumping lets it stack with Cloaking Device and give him invisibility.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... you can still get the stealth power on any other blaster adn mix with a stealth IO for invisibility for just one power pick as well, with superjump. Now sure it has that small speed penalty, but like you said you took combat jumping. That and hurdle, i've never noticed much of a slowdown when jumping because of stealths -speed.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm pondering trying out an assault rifle/devices blaster
[/ QUOTE ]
If you've already played the other blaster secondaries, devices offers something different. It manages to keep me interested because of this.
If you're new to blasters, I'd stick to the others for the first taste. Devices will still be there if you ever feel burned out and need something unique to keep you interested.
[/ QUOTE ]
on the other hand..if you've never played blasters..then you wont be disappointed by the poor damage of a AR/devices 
i have a 50 fire/devices which i dont play much cause he's spec'd for WB..but its ok
also have a 50 AR/em which is surprisingly strong. Boost range with Flame Thrower and Full Auto = very nice
if i was to recommend a primary for devices i'd prolly choose fire/ice/sonic before AR..of course play whatever interests you..
perma jump is ---> /up 1
I like my AR/Dev, and I think he does great damage (trip mines are beastly). The main problem is that it takes me a lot of percision and perfection in how I play to get the same results as the jack [censored] that only had to fire off build up+aim and shoot.
TD should give a constant buff to damage.
Smoke Grenade should placate everything it hits. It is much more beneficial to just take cloaking device+superspeed (cloaking device+stealth IO) and get stealth that way than it is so lob out that stupid grenade every spawn. Give it a purpose again.
Time Bomb is way excessivly difficult to set up. Let me decide when to detonate it. Even if you have to nerf the damage a bit, I'd just like it to be realisticaly usable.
Everything else is fine.
Ar/Devices fun:
Sneak up with Cloaking Device, drop a Time Bomb, count down 8-9, drop Trip Mine.
Boom, Slug on Boss.
Move to next spawn.
Sneak up with Cloaking Device, drop Trip Mine, SuperSpeed +jump away while hitting Auto Fire. Slug, etc.
Alternatively: drop 12-14 mines, fly up or run out of activation range of the mines. Get Tankers/Scrappers to grab a wad of foes and bring em to the mined area, race back in range, boom.
Edit: Yeah, Time Bomb should be trigerable at will.
Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves.
-ShadowsBetween
my first 50 was a arch/dev and the devices part was just as much fun as the archery. using the cloak will keep u alive much longer as u can do alot more without getting a ton of aggro. caltrops is also good to keep u alive. drop it down in front of u and if u do pick up aggro u can take them out before they get to you. its a good set, besides the obvious lack of build up which definitely hurts your damage.
"Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici"
By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe
Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.
Smoke Grenade isn't useless even once you have a stealth IO + cloaking device, but it is specialized. The reduced perception range makes it much easier to pull small numbers of enemies, as far as I can tell.
Still, a short-duration placate would be quite nice on it.
AR/EM is better.
caltrops.
It doesn't matter what you take in devices as long as you take caltrops. same for traps.
From the perspective of my current level 37 ice/dev I honestly don't see why devices takes such a bad rap, short of making the mistake of pairing it with AR. As one of the above posters said if you take ar/anything or anything/dev it's gonna be a lot better. But this toon? soloing I had to bump the slider up to level 4 before I even had anything remotely approaching a challenge. And that's flying through missions nonstop without taking minutes to lay trip mine fields. Though it is fun to bash the occasional pack with a toebomb ice storm combo, with caltrops on top for extra giggles. But going down the list.
Web grenade: Out of the box you're looking at an instant -50% recharge -50% run speed, and if you believe mids a -10 fly (Chillblain is -1.6) along with a -50000% jump height (which chillblain totally lacks) WG not stackable? So what? I can keep a freak tank or any boss perma immob'ed, debuffed with SG, sitting in trops and ice stom for dot's, and attacking maybe 2-3 times with their much weaker ranged attacks while ice bolt, blast, and BiB wail on them. And that's before you throw in freeze ray if i felt like it.
Caltrops: bottle up any doorway, hide out of line of sight, fire ice storm or any targetted aoe that doesn't need LoS, lure mobs into nice tight group for your team, laugh, repeat. That or just keep a nice bit of distance between the harder hitting mobs and you.
Taser: Didn't take, can't offer opinions, have considered respec'ing out of trip mine for it though now that it's ranged, reasons below.
TD: Ok i'll concede that it could use a little love, but giving it a damage boost? No thank you, I get the feeling i'd have to trade off too much acc for that knowing the devs, and it's the acc + debuff resists that i like. Even with no slots in it but 1 end reducer i've stopped missing against +2's. That's without double acc slotting in my blasts now. Maybe let it boost more then AR's snipe, say a snipe from any powerset, but more damage is not the solution to all the worlds problems, specially for a device player.
Smoke grenade: The biggest flaw in the whole SS + IO = stealth arguement is this. That's a stealth centered on you, which goes away when you attack, which means you tend to attract more attention even as a good stealth puller. SG on the other hand is such a -per debuff that you take a pack of mobs and if you're smart about it pull them all but one at a time. Or not have to worry about nearby mobs wandering close enough to notice and bringing more adds. The to hit debuff is just icing on the cake compared to the pulling ability this power brings.
Cloaking: no movement reduction unlike pool stealth, no combat supression unlike a travel + IO duo, across the board 3.5% def boost, and paired with combat jump you've got a quick 5% def plus the immob resist goodness. And that's before you take into account the ability to set up dev goodies close as you want to the mobs before being seen, or simply play games with SG and point blank trip mines.
Trip mine: Love it, love it, love it, great aoe kaboom, and if you happen to just leave a couple laying around each tacks on an extra boost to defiance. The only reason i'd consider ditching it for taser though is I'm plowing through mobs too fast solo. It's easier for me to use my ice attack chain to flatten everything then take the time to mine lay. Stealth and sneaky games are going to be less of an issue when I have gun drone for extra damage output. That and devices has all the tricks to make bosses a total non issue. But reasons i'd keep it? Teaming, no rule saying you can't sneak up beside the tank, drop one into his herd, then drop back and watch the fireworks. Did so to great effect in a simple three man group. And since my only other aoe is ice storm or blizzard, really amped the damage output. That and it's just a FUN power, and isn't that why we play games in the first place?
Time bomb: Here i'll agree, it's useless, it needs a lot of love, or a tweak to make it something approaching useful, if you could set it off yourself like the oil slick/blazing arrow duo a TA/arch defender has (maybe with a trip mine beside it) that alone would make it better. But right now, yeah it kinda sucks.
Gun drone: give me one more level, hehe between the global recharge set bonuses i'm getting (three full entropic chaos in all three single target ice attacks) and hasten, keeping one perma is cake. We'll see how I feel about it further soon enough.
Anyway, rambling take on the powers aside, dev offers great options for any blaster looking for more control and a different way of doing things, after all if all we needed was damage everyone would be something/fire, and we all know what a real winner that set is right? [/sarcasm]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a strong opinion on the topic. I have deleted one character over level 20, I think, ever. It was a L29 fire/dev blaster.
My other fire/* blasters are fire/ice at 35 and 19, fire/elec at 50, fire/en at 50 . So it's not the primary.
A blaster generally does about 50% more damage (when free to go postal at any time for no reason) than a scrapper using their primary and secondary combined. This is based on almost 150 levels of Force Field defender.
A blaster using their primary ONLY can do, maybe, 10% more damage than a Scrapper. The rest comes from melee attacks, Build Up, etc. - none of which Devices has.
Devices mostly has Trip Mines and Time Bombs, for damage. These take a high-damage-per-second class and add a lot of seconds sitting around doing no damage.
It is possible that two /Dev blasters can get good results by setting one Time Bomb each, in the same way that two Elec/ Blasters can get good results by both using Short Circuit at the same time.
But I didn't stick around to try it.
[/ QUOTE ]
/devices is a lot there for fun. I would never do a toon blaster who didn't get at least aim or build up. AR is a nice set, its best paired IMO with ice manipulation.
As far as Fulmen's argument, they REALLY need, and about time, they gave targetting drone a 40% damage buff to it. Would end a ton of complaints about the set, especially in the later levels.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
The problem with devices is not devices. No one will argue that devices is a fine set, taken by itself.
The problem is that it's thematic partner, AR, is not synergistic with it.
AR is a great set, Devices is a great set. Together, however, they are not a great combo.
Truthfully, targeting drone should have given the entire assault rifle set a 30% damage boost, INCLUDING full auto. the lack of both aim AND build up destroys a blaster's specialty... burst-killing before enemies have a chance to respond. Without that ability, the number and types of enemies an ar/dev can safely engage suffers in comparison to other blasters. It is still powerful, but the tactical considerations are far far higher than they are for any other combo. ei a 90 degree learning curve.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a strong opinion on the topic. I have deleted one character over level 20, I think, ever. It was a L29 fire/dev blaster.
My other fire/* blasters are fire/ice at 35 and 19, fire/elec at 50, fire/en at 50 . So it's not the primary.
A blaster generally does about 50% more damage (when free to go postal at any time for no reason) than a scrapper using their primary and secondary combined. This is based on almost 150 levels of Force Field defender.
A blaster using their primary ONLY can do, maybe, 10% more damage than a Scrapper. The rest comes from melee attacks, Build Up, etc. - none of which Devices has.
Devices mostly has Trip Mines and Time Bombs, for damage. These take a high-damage-per-second class and add a lot of seconds sitting around doing no damage.
It is possible that two /Dev blasters can get good results by setting one Time Bomb each, in the same way that two Elec/ Blasters can get good results by both using Short Circuit at the same time.
But I didn't stick around to try it.
[/ QUOTE ]
/devices is a lot there for fun. I would never do a toon blaster who didn't get at least aim or build up. AR is a nice set, its best paired IMO with ice manipulation.
As far as Fulmen's argument, they REALLY need, and about time, they gave targetting drone a 40% damage buff to it. Would end a ton of complaints about the set, especially in the later levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
A permanant Damage boost to targeting drone would lead to endless complaints of how OP it is. And 40% is jsut to much of a damage boost to give perma also. About 25% would be more balanced. Also its to hit would have to be reduced to about 4% also as the power would have to provide the same overall over time effectiveness as Buildup. And it gets a 13.9% To Hit Continuously to compensate for it not adding Damage.
[ QUOTE ]
And it gets a 13.9% To Hit Continuously to compensate for it not adding Damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently you haven't read about the recent nerf to targeting drone?
To the OP,
I don't know what to tell but to atleast try it out. People look at things differently.
I have a lvl 29 Fire/Devices who I am completely in love with. I would choose this toon any day over my Fire/Fire. Caltrops --> Rain of Fire --> Aim --> FireBall and Breath of Fire is a great combo. The Caltrops from the devices gives the mitigation I need to make Rain of Fire a nice power all by itself.
Smoke Grenade is good for extra defense, adds to my already high ranged defense. I can't wait to check out Gun Drone, a pet seriously who needs build up when you have a whole other source of damage, not only that but it also takes aggro, and to my understanding with enough recharge you can have more than one.
My advice is to at least try it.
EDIT: Just to note with the new defiance, summoning Gun Drone gives you 39.5% damage boost for 13.5 sec and setting up a trip mine gives you another 26.4 for 11.5 secs so if you time it right for 8 secs you can have a damage boost of like 55%.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And it gets a 13.9% To Hit Continuously to compensate for it not adding Damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently you haven't read about the recent nerf to targeting drone?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A permanant Damage boost to targeting drone would lead to endless complaints of how OP it is. And 40% is jsut to much of a damage boost to give perma also. About 25% would be more balanced. Also its to hit would have to be reduced to about 4% also as the power would have to provide the same overall over time effectiveness as Buildup. And it gets a 13.9% To Hit Continuously to compensate for it not adding Damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was to the epic version only IIRC. Last i checked the blaster version was still 13.875% to hit bonus.
And a perma damage buff on it would NOT be overpowered. Many sets get just that in a perma-able form. Claws, Dual blades, heck ever super strength gets an 80% perma damage buff. For a set like devices where the buff wouldnt even carry over to anything in its own set that is justified easily IMO.
And the to hit wouldnt need reduced, when the set is already lacking. Its an improvement, not a swap. If you are that concerned about the actual power, they can just as easily put the damage boost in cloaking device but it would make far less sense in there.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
[ QUOTE ]
they can just as easily put the damage boost in cloaking device but it would make far less sense in there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not if there was a stealth strike component in each blast.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No one puts BU on auto, after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then why do I constantly hear it going off in Wentworth's?
[/ QUOTE ]
My guess is you're actually hearing hasten fire in Went's, and not build up. At least, hasten is what I hear going off all the time when I'm in there...