Hints to (re)start in the Art's World?
By
Darkjedi,
Posted on: 2009-04-01 16:22 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
That's what I was getting at when I said referencing others has its merits. My brain was hurting trying to think of ways to improve your artwork if you didn't try out techniques you see around you.
I know I've said the line to myself many times of "Man, I love [insert artist name here]'s work. I wonder how they get the colors to come out that way? I'd like to learn how and try it out with some of my work and see how I can blend it with what I do." I'd say that's referencing another artist.
Everyone here is going too far and too deep into a potential course of action that *hasn't happened yet.*
Tracing has it's benefits. You absolutely cannot say otherwise.
It's good for building up physical muscle control in your hands and arms and it's a great way to gain confidence in your lines when you're starting out. You just cannot use tracing to gain creative skill.
It's the difference between a treadmill and a marathon. The treadmill can build up your body enough to make the marathon easier, but you'll never ever get anywhere. But just because it doesn't go anywhere doesn't mean it's completely useless.
People have this irrational hatred of tracing. Like everything else, it has it's uses and it's drawbacks. It's all in how you treat it.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
You people and your metaphors. 
..err.. well im bound and determined ta get this logically worded out... so basically.. tracing the image EXACTLY and tracing the WHOLE image is not good... you wont learn anything.. now that being said.. tracing PARTS of an image and using that part to see how the image is made by placing guides OVER the image PART you just traced, is very VERY helpful... IMHO
..ok well.. think of the tracing paper as not so much the drawing .. but more as how your mind should see the drawing.. kind of like looking at a blueprint before you even touch the area your about to make a building on...
take that old spawn comic book and cover it with the tracing paper and trace over the lines used in making the cape or a jacket... dont trace the whole image .. just parts of to get the feel of it...
well hey... trace the general outline of any Jim Lee drawn character and THEN draw guidelines over it... see how the characters' always a certain amount of heads tall... or that if you trace an eye and move the paper.. that the eyes are normaly one eye wight between the two...
see.. your not copying Jim Lee's art because your not tracing the whole picture .. your just tracing parts of it to see how that artist goes about lining up and making his work in a general sense... your art work will never look exactly like theres because your not the same person... however.. seeing how they use light and dark and shadding in an image is very informative..
so in the end, its not like your copying Jim Lee.. it more like your just licking him.. kinda getting a taste of the whole Lee package.. letting your tongue slush over the lines and angles he uses to show dept and perspective.. how he uses so few lines to convey so much... allowing your saliva to fill in the void of understanding the basic elements of an image by dissecting it into small parts....
ahh THATS the word I was looking for .. DISSECTION.. trace a bit of the image or drawing and then dissect it back to its basic shapes by building guidelines over it .. turn the whole thing into a simple ruff draft showing just the guidelines of the character.
infact take a playboy mag and trace the girls and then draw guidelines over them to see how there bodys break down into simple shapes...
..basically.. when your done with the tracing paper, it should look like absoluty nothing what so ever...
also for a simpler excersise.. try tracing a perfect circle and keep tracing it round and round and round and see how long you can keep it up till the circle becomes an oval or worse..
and everyones gonna hate me for this.. but trace a whole image EXACTLY. ( I know I just said don't do it.. but do it anyway ) .. only trace the image UPSIDE DOWN, its a great way to let your mind think of the shapes of an image rather then how your mind normally thinks images should look like
...err.. I STILL dont think I explained that right though.. :*(
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so in the end, its not like your copying Jim Lee.. it more like your just licking him..
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That needs to go in someone's signature. Right now.
Omg.
Ok, ok. First of, I didnt end the whole thing yet because my day was weird (in an excellent way at least), but I keep retouching this and that.
Now this thread originally had like 3 replies, and in 1 day it rocketed to 4 pages, most of really, really interesting point of views, either about techniques or encouragement. Heck, even that troll made me lulz.
To reply to a few of the things that were mentioned on this thread:
I not only draw near a bed, I usually draw while lying down there. As much as I love music to retarded extents, I discovered that listening to it during drawing sometimes does NOT works and really slows me down (i sometimes get myself singing or humming some song that comes to my mind, but I did not tell you this...).
This tracing over thing might work, in my opinion, to draw things you either dont like or arent satisfied. But I say that just trying to reproduce it by looking is better, except if its something way too hard for you. I learned to draw comics around the time Jim Lee was doing the X-Men. By then, EVERYTHING in the world had a crapload of traces of shadow, and biceps. Old people, cats, the random guy in the background. My walls had biceps. Took some time to polish it off. So my two cents is - copying is training wheels. Do it once then do based on that by yourself, or at least its how it works for me.
Thanks everyone that commented, encouraged, discussed, licked Ji- er. Well, thank to you all. Oh and btw - any of you know of a cool program to colour a b/w piece? The simplier the better. I might however just pust the BW when Im done, but I should get familiar to these things too I guess.
Slightly feeling silly (by posting on a board with some real good artists), but feeling proud of this re-start. By tomorrow I might be posting my Widow.
- Dual Blades Stalker Guide
- Mastermind guide to Pain Domination
did tarty just tell him to lick Jim lee? now i see it, I SEE IT ALL all along tarty has been drawing scantily clad anime girls to cover up the truth! he likes to lick other artist's :P haha seriously though nice advice tartyrsauce it managed to be informative, disturbing and hilarious all in one :P
advice on this subject is tricky cause what works for some doesn't work for all. the only advice i can give is study study study. weither its flipping through a Jim lee comic or a porno mag or just looking out the window just look at everything.
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The difference is pretty large. Absorbing different techniques you admire and working them into your work teaches you how to accomplish things other have already figured out, leaving you more time to advance beyond them. That's how art styles evolve. If you go too far and copy their works blindly, you risk losing the integration into your own works and fall into copy-cat mode.
We all use the same alphabet when we draw, but it's important to make your own words and stories.
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There is so much essential truth in these words that I cannot go above and behind how to emphasize them. Thanks to the efforts of others in this art community in their involvement with my own work I was able to take the course of a year to understand where art has been, where it was at the time, and where that fit into who I was as an artist and how to develop from it.
Now there's 22 of you out there (yes, I actually counted them earlier) who are the pressing example of one person trying to figure out themselves as an artist. Strangely, until tonight it really hadn't crossed my mind...but I'll save that for another thread.
So Lipe, if you really want to sit down with someone who knows, I'm more than willing to chat. In fact, I've even extended some help out to a personal friend who's trying to figure themselves out as an artist and where to start from scratch, so my tutorials already in the making 
In the case of tracing as a foot-hold? I agree with this. Infact, in a digital age, I can definitely agree with it because it has even more available merit. Every two year old wants to trace the character in the story book, you just don't know that's what the orange scribble and black stripes mean "Tigger". It just happens to be the right course (in my opinion). Art began with the attempt to mimic life, and until the Camera was invented, there was only one source material: Eye to Hand to Surface. In every sense of the word art is the attempt to trace reality (even the imagination can be considered an extension of reality, birds on human bodies obviously aside, the two halves equal a real whole). The ultimate attempt is to trace it without the reference
And, as I quoted, the final goal is to do it in the matter that directly connects with who you are as an artist. Art is only 5% Technicality, 5% Ability and 90% Desire, Passion and Will.
Someone already told me today: "I wish I had your talent, my stick figures cry."
And I told them: "It is not talent."
And they asked: "What do you call it then?!"
My Response: "Hard work, perseverance, and attempting to commit sepuku with a pencil and a rusty pocket knife."
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
yes.. tracing is like training wheels 
as far as not being able to draw well.... ive always thought of drawing as 5 percent talent, and 95 percent perseverance...
theres TONS .. literally TONS of people that can make drawings that could equal or exceed even the best published artists out there... ( there is probably someone working at the local Mcdonalds that could out draw most of the guys at image ) the difference is those people have the talent but not the dedication to finish what they start or even ta go the extra mile.
someone who cant draw that well, yet STILL finishes drawings and completes works on time, will eventually get better. Those that can draw well, yet dont finish drawings or slack off tend either to not improve with time or just fall to the roadside.
...err.. anyway hope this thread help you.. and one last note:
NEVER EVER EVER EVER listen to people that says your art sucks when you show it to them.. no matter how good of an artist you THINK they are, or even if they have a doctorate in art history (( and unless there medical doctorate in there some place.. DONT call them doctor.. its just sad )) .. NO self respecting artist is gonna critique your work with insult comments like " that sucks" .. that being said, there are some that will critique it with lines like " that arm needs more muscle mass.. fingers need more definition.. ect " .. those are good critiques and should be MINORLY listened too.. but whatever happens.. always take critiques as minor suggestions that you may or may not use.. its to easy to have someone crush your enthusiasm by giving a complex critique that makes you feel two feet tall in comparison... I would say wear a thick skin when you ask others to crit your work and take from them the best advice and leave all insults and veiled remarks at the side of the road with all the other trash.
anyway.. hope this helps 
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NEVER EVER EVER EVER listen to people that says your art sucks when you show it to them.. no matter how good of an artist you THINK they are, or even if they have a doctorate in art history (( and unless there medical doctorate in there some place.. DONT call them doctor.. its just sad ))
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If someone has gone to the effort of earning a doctorate, their title is doctor unless they are a university professor. Nobody is going to force you to address them that way, it is your god given right to sound ignorant if you choose to do so.
If you want to get better, you listen to negative criticism of your work. If someone says your drawing sucks, especially a more accomplished artist, it probably DOES suck. And it gets worse as you improve because fewer people are likely to give you an honest reply.
A general principle of criticism is tact. You try to get your point across without insulting or discouraging someone. In amateur art circles this gets twisted to mean that nothing is truly bad and that people who give you blunt appraisals are just douches who are trying to tear your ego down. That's a really unfortunate mindset that has taken root in many places.
Blacklisted
"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
That sounds strikingly like a certain Superhero Fandom Art Forum I peruse from time to time.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
Criticizing someone's art on a forum and doing so with tact is very hard since you have no idea who you are talking to. Good art for a 4 year old isn't the same thing as good art produced by a 55 year old that has been at it for 35 years. So to try to criticize in a way that helps and doesn't discourage, isn't obvious.
And then you have people that just judge everything with one standard ... and that ... just isn't fair.
Char Site | My DeviantArt
Global=@Thornster
Imagine there is this Night Widow standing still with he back to you; she notices you approaching and leaps sideways preparing a counterattack. Well, without further ado, after 7 years without touching a drawing pencil, Night Widow!
Definetely not satisfied, but I guess everyone needs to (re)start somewhere. I feel like saying a lot of things about the thread and about my piece, but I will just let any comments come up.
- Dual Blades Stalker Guide
- Mastermind guide to Pain Domination
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NEVER EVER EVER EVER listen to people that says your art sucks when you show it to them.. no matter how good of an artist you THINK they are, or even if they have a doctorate in art history (( and unless there medical doctorate in there some place.. DONT call them doctor.. its just sad ))
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If someone has gone to the effort of earning a doctorate, their title is doctor unless they are a university professor. Nobody is going to force you to address them that way, it is your god given right to sound ignorant if you choose to do so.
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..as do you.
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If you want to get better, you listen to negative criticism of your work. If someone says your drawing sucks, especially a more accomplished artist, it probably DOES suck.
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saying someone elses drawing sucks is not a critique.. its a blatent insult with no helpful comments or suggestions .. period.
...now moving on to more important things...
its a very nice drawing lips82... might wanna see your old work though also.
How the hell are you not satisfied? That's great!
Thanks on the comments, it's really nice to hear. This is how I am not too satisfied tho:
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its a very nice drawing lipe82... might wanna see your old work though also.
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Old stuff I have on this computer: A random old piece, a female teen hero and one of my best shots ever.
I wont be satisfied with anything lesser than those, at the very least... the plan? Get better by doing more
In case someone missed my new piece on the other page, Night Widow.
- Dual Blades Stalker Guide
- Mastermind guide to Pain Domination
I am not an artist.
However, I have spent time managing bands, have family that are established artists, and dated an unusual number of sculptors (I..just realized that too.).
All of which means nothing :P
Drawing, playing music, writing (which I do as a diversion), is like any exercise involving muscles and your mind.
When I learned martial arts it was all about training your muscle memory as well as your brain.
You need to do it and do it alot. Draw, draw, draw. You are not going to just do it at near the level you used to.
It will take time. The important thing to do is give it time to grow again. Like when you are bedridden and your muscles atrophy...so will skills.
I did amazing things when I was actively practicing my martial arts. Now, a decade since I last launched a kick at my Sifu...I couldnt hope to do any of those things without practincing again.
I can only imagine creative skills to be the same. Practice friend.
And never come to an open forum for critiquing your pieces.
Use trusted people that are not afraid to be honest, but not be [censored].
a.k.a. That drawing sucks. Do better.
Thats not helpful. You want people to tell you what they dont like, as well as what they do.
Practice practice practice.
And, dont let yourself down by not trying.
Take care friend. Good Luck.
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If you want to get better, you listen to negative criticism of your work. If someone says your drawing sucks, especially a more accomplished artist, it probably DOES suck.
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saying someone elses drawing sucks is not a critique.. its a blatent insult with no helpful comments or suggestions .. period.
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LOL
Well done, Tartyr!
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..as do you.
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As do I what? Grammer check in aisle 5 please.
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saying someone elses drawing sucks is not a critique.. its a blatent insult with no helpful comments or suggestions .. period.
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So what if it's not a formal critique? You shouldn't blow off negative response to your work because it offends your delicate sensibilities. As for the insult part...shackling your self-esteem to your artistic development is a great way to stagnate. Your advice is great for keeping a sheltered ego, it has nothing to do with actual improvement.
bad advice is bad
Lipe82-- The drawings are pretty good in terms of contour lines. You might want to try establishing volume through shading. If you are going to continue with inked lines, maybe experiment with variations in cross hatching to establish depth and shadow.
Blacklisted
"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
Since when did we start talking about grammar and self esteem?
Anyways
Your old stuff is really nice, but your new art's good too.
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..as do you.
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As do I what? Grammer check in aisle 5 please.
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..as do you.
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..personally, I would like ta see a female and male drawing of your stuff Lips ( im just gonna call you lips.. im horrid at number names ) .. yah know,, you might wanna just start coloring some of the suckers...
what programs or tools are you using???
But its Lipe from Fe[u]lipe[u] brah D:
I currently only have ye good ole Photoshop; and zero technique on how to do colouring with it. I got a friend who actually did some awesome colouring using some tool out there, and I might ask him to colour the... sucker.
- Dual Blades Stalker Guide
- Mastermind guide to Pain Domination
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But its Lipe from Fe[u]lipe[u] brah D:
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ack.. well calling me "brah" just cuz I like to run around holding womens breast up is a bit much dont you think... I consider it a free public service after all... err... ok.. im gonna just say Lipe then....
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I currently only have ye good ole Photoshop; and zero technique on how to do coloring with it. I got a friend who actually did some awesome coloring using some tool out there, and I might ask him to color the... sucker.
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. .. err... well the word suck was still stuck in my mind at the time, and believe me, your art DOSE NOT SUCK, really its just a matter of practice at this point.. but I would still like to see how you proportion the male and female figures out... and really "sucker" and "suck" are two different things...
suck would be like...
--- "wow, its three dollers for a can of soda at Disney world.. that SUCKS"
sucker would be like..
---"wow, Linsy Lohan is hot, I would really like to SUCKER"
... as for photoshop.. I would say just use the paintbucket tool and the burn and dodge tool to start out.. ..err.. and layers.. err.. OK I guess you really do need ta learn the program... but its worth it in the long run.
wtf are you talking about?
..I personally feel that no two people draw the same way..err..
ick.. did I open a can of worms with my comments?...
*trys to close drawer*