Uhhh would Whips be too suggestive for a powerset?
By
Blackavaar,
Posted on: 2009-03-30 22:54 in Suggestions and Ideas
Lots of others (including myself) have suggested this in the past. Might want to do a search it's likely up in the often-suggested threads.
It may be doable, but I can't see it as a ranged set. The problem really becomes that there isn't a way to get two characters to interact really, so any animation for grappling would be extremely difficult.
I still *want* it, though 
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Repurposed
The primary issue with a whips set (or chains or wrestling moves), is that there's no real way to have it wrap around the target in anything remotely resembling a believable way. Aside from the fact that the collision geometry is a cylinder, what happens when you use the same attack on a Clockwork underling, on a minimum-sized player in PvP, on a Hellion, on a War Wolf, or on a GM?
Also, because it has to be said:
Sticks and stones may break my bones,
But whips and chains excite me! 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
search please
desipte that thread had a considerably larger amount of fail than this one the point still stands.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Oops I forgot the search defaults to Newer Than One Week!
Sorry for the redundancy.
This is suggested fairly often, and each time some of the same issues are pointed out: Yes, it is a cool concept that a lot of folks like (except when someone proposed it be a Controller Primary... ewwwww); CoH/V's engine would massacre the look of the whip itself, and one of the few workable solutions involves it being a weapon set that isn't customizable.
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The primary issue with a whips set (or chains or wrestling moves), is that there's no real way to have it wrap around the target in anything remotely resembling a believable way. Aside from the fact that the collision geometry is a cylinder, what happens when you use the same attack on a Clockwork underling, on a minimum-sized player in PvP, on a Hellion, on a War Wolf, or on a GM?
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It could use a similar animation as the 5 Golden Rings Christmas Event Temp. Granted it doesn't really fit into the "realistic" category, but uh... if you're teamed with people that can summon fire demons and fly, what's considered realistic??
I'm thinking more along the lines of the snaps and cracks of the whip rather than a hold set.
Aside from the obvious 'adult connotations' abuse (like femme henchies), the big problem will remain realistic animation (clipping, and interaction with player/nonplayer models), and that is a big deal to the Devs. I commend them for holding back what they consider subpar even when it is something I personally want.
And if you really mostly want the 'whipcracking'; then the 'adult connotations' argument more than applies.
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Oh snap Whips! Whips would help fill out my MMs et!
Regardless of what's been said so far (and despite the fact that I would still want them anyway) I'm afraid whips/chains are "iconic" enough that we'd have a slew of Catwoman/Zorro/Indiana Jones clones on top of all the other problems that have been mentioned. 
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Clones are never a reason to not do anything.
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Clones are never a reason to not do anything.
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Yes but they would be yet another minor problem for the Devs added to all the others this idea would pose.
There are plenty of ideas out there that -don't- involve the obvious potential for clones as well. *shrugs*
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Clones aren't even a minor problem. Clones are nothing. Not worth a moments consideration. The time it takes to type a mention that an item might help with a knock off is more time then should be spent thinking about it.
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Clones aren't even a minor problem. Clones are nothing. Not worth a moments consideration. The time it takes to type a mention that an item might help with a knock off is more time then should be spent thinking about it.
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Tell that to our GMs who spend much of their time 'generic'ing' clones to avoid lawsuits against this game.
I suspect the idea of our Devs "considering" the clone question is a bit more important than you realize.
When talking about whips/chains there's the double whammy of all the technical problems AND the fact that it would lead to very obvious clones that are two strikes against this idea. One or the other alone might not be enough to stop this suggestion, but both together almost certainly does.
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The technical issues are the only problem with enough weight to not get blown of the scales when someone walks over to see how it levels out. If clones where an issue worth any amount of time then we wouldn't have launched with claws that pop out of the back of our hands and go "Shink".
The fact you list three people who use whips means that there is a place in the genre for them and that they should be considered for a set if the technical issues were not present. Hopefully below blaster pistols and new MM primaries but on the list all the same.
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The technical issues are the only problem with enough weight to not get blown of the scales when someone walks over to see how it levels out. If clones where an issue worth any amount of time then we wouldn't have launched with claws that pop out of the back of our hands and go "Shink".
The fact you list three people who use whips means that there is a place in the genre for them and that they should be considered for a set if the technical issues were not present. Hopefully below blaster pistols and new MM primaries but on the list all the same.
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Well I didn't even re-mention the "suggestive" aspect of this thing as well.
That would be the third strike against this for what it's worth.
Anyway the primary point is that things like claws (and even capes in retrospect) were relatively "easy" things for our Devs to implement. Now with whips/chains we are talking about something very hard to implement.
So let's look at this from the Devs' point of view: We want them to spend a lot of time and effort on something that would be relatively marginally used to begin with. Much less ubiquitous than capes for instance. ON TOP OF THAT hurdle this something would likely be "suggestive" AND lead to incredibly obvious cloning? Nope, not going to happen.
I'm not saying the cloning potential is the primary problem here. But when Devs are considering pros and cons for prioritizing their efforts it's often the little extra problems that push things from the "will do" column to the "won't do" column. The potential for cloning could easily be that determining factor here.
Don't get me wrong like I said I'd like to see them too.
But I'm certainly not going to hold my breath for them because there are MANY strikes against it.
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It doesn't belong in any column on any list. Cloning never was and never has been a concern with this game.
Also suggestiveness isn't much of an issue with this game or they wouldn't be selling us a costume pack full of lingerie.
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It doesn't belong in any column on any list. Cloning never was and never has been a concern with this game.
Also suggestiveness isn't much of an issue with this game or they wouldn't be selling us a costume pack full of lingerie.
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*sigh*
I said the cloning issue might be enough to push the whole idea of whips/chains into the "don't do" column. Not that the cloning concern itself was in any 'column' of its own. Please keep up.
Also a few years ago Marvel sued this game over IP concerns. Part of the settlement of that lawsuit was that our GMs had to make sure to be extra vigilant about cloners. To say that making sure we don't give Marvel (or any other company) another excuse to sue this game is not a "concern" of this game is incredibly naive on your part.
Finally this game long ago nerfed female nipples and "nude" skin tones on costume items for fear of upsetting people over "suggestive" content. It is generally accepted that the reason we do not have female pets for MMs is that the Devs don't want us to do anything "naughty" with them. I don't agree with those decisions but clearly those things show us the Devs are mindful of anything THEY perceive as "suggestive". If they have decided that whips/chains are "suggestive" that strike against them might actually be the ONLY one keeping them from happening above and beyond any other concern. The Devs -are- arbitrarily funny like that.
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The dev's have clearly taken steps to prevent nudity. Then they give us underwear. I've asked and have never been given a source for this "female pets are missing because of pimps" rumor. I'm more inclined to believe we lack female pets because at the time the sets were made we lacked a pool of female NPCs that could be used that had already been animated for combat powers and player emotes.
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The dev's have clearly taken steps to prevent nudity. Then they give us underwear. I've asked and have never been given a source for this "female pets are missing because of pimps" rumor. I'm more inclined to believe we lack female pets because at the time the sets were made we lacked a pool of female NPCs that could be used that had already been animated for combat powers and player emotes.
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The real point here is not what WE consider suggestive.
It's what the Devs consider suggestive.
As I've said their application of the definition of that word is all up to their whims.
This as all a moot discussion anyway - people have been suggesting whips/chains for MANY YEARS now and they still haven't happened. WHATEVER the reason for that is it's very likely they are not going to happen any time soon regardless.
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So you also can't source that MM pet rumor?
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So you also can't source that MM pet rumor?
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What does it matter?
People have been arguing that point for years as well.
If you care enough about it you can go search those threads and read about all the people who've claimed Redname support for that point until the cows come home.
Regardless of your desire for whips/chains they are not in the game.
Could they happen eventually? Sure, anything's possible.
But to assume you can rationalize them enough to convince the Devs is your deal, not mine.
Bottomline the Devs have NOT added things in the game for far fewer reasons than this thing has against it. *shrugs*
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(or chains or wrestling moves)
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... or Stretching.
I have. No one has a source. People claim Dev said this or that about it but I haven't found proof. I'm just pointing out that "decency" and "cloning" are not valid reasons to not have this set or for that matter anything int his game. The only clear dev marker on decency is they don't want believable nudes since they won't comment on nipple nerf the only logical reason for it I can find is that it allowed for.
I'm not trying to rationalize anything to the Devs, I'm trying to get you to rationalize you arguments and not spout nonsense with disregard.
Bottom line this is the suggestion section for the discussion of player ideas among players and you shouldn't post if you don't want what you said discussed.
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So you also can't source that MM pet rumor?
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First off, I may not always agree with Lothic, but that's just a difference of opinion, BUT I do respect Loth for coming to the table prepared.
Just looking at Board Reg'd date, I can tell you that you missed out on The Great Femmastermind Controversy of '06. I was there. It was a bit of a tempest in a teacup with Threadlocks and Bejeebers being BowFlung hither and yon. Until a still small thread appeared and a rather newbish Forumite did bring the question out again, and after getting pummeled a bit by some posters who had talked candidly and in person with some of the Devs but couldn't 'source' the "aint gonna be no femme henchies" Dev decision, she gently pestered one of the Devs and caught him in a good and open mood to explain the why's and whithertofores of the Devcision. The Dev was Positron, and if memory serves; the PM she got was posted, but I'm shaky as to whether Posi came into the thread to confirm it himself. But I ws there, and if you can't find the thread with Search you just have to remember there have been at least one MAJOR and several minor Dev authorized purges of the Forums since then. Also the femme henchie suggestion died a quiet death with that thread, and most who participated or read it let it go whether they agreed or disagreed with the policy. That's probably why it's not on the radar much anymore and is soundly ignored or slapped down when it does raise its head. So, purge or Forum Monster; you probably won't get a source eventhough it is true.
Your position on powers and cloning vis-a-vis the Marvel lawsuit is naïve at the kindest I can put it.
Sorry you don't like the answers; but it is what it is.
Oh, and lace does not make it underwear, it just makes it pretty. Then again Superman has been accused of running around in blue longunderwear for over 60 years. The nuance behind 'suggestive' or adult content in a Teen Rated game; well, it is subjective to some, but the Devs pretty much have drawn their line, and that is what matters most.
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I was just thinking it would be really cool to have a whip as a weapon. I'm not sure if it would be a melee toon or a maybe a blasting set. It would look weird at melee range, but I think it's more a melee type attacking method.
Would this even be doable?