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Since you are aware that it has been suggested many times before, then you are obviously aware of the many reasons NOT to do it.
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I am completely unaware of ANY reason not to do this.
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It's your own fault for not searching and reading the previous threads on this topic. It has been explained many times in the past. Do your homework.
/unsigned for all the reasons posted in past threads.
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So, to recap, we have 3 RL economists weighing in in favor of a merger, at least one of whom has more Inf than one character can hold strictly from playing the market. We have a bunch of laymen naysaying the idea but they are unable to come up with a cogent reason WHY a merger would be bad.
If there are any more of "those reasons posted in past threads" now would be the time to trot them out. Because I'm STILL unaware of ANY reason not to merge the markets. I still believe that it is long overdue.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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Since you are aware that it has been suggested many times before, then you are obviously aware of the many reasons NOT to do it.
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I am completely unaware of ANY reason not to do this.
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It's your own fault for not searching and reading the previous threads on this topic. It has been explained many times in the past. Do your homework.
/unsigned for all the reasons posted in past threads.
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So, to recap, we have 3 RL economists weighing in in favor of a merger, at least one of whom has more Inf than on character can hold strictly from playing the market. We have a bunch of laymen naysaying the idea but they are unable to come up with a cogent reason WHY a merger would be bad.
If there are any more of "those reasons posted in past threads" now would be the time to trot them out. Because I'm STILL unaware of ANY reason not to merge the markets. I still believe that it is long overdue.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, at one of those RL economists isn't specifically for or against the merger, but enjoys picking apart the economically unsound arguments people make (which is... most of the arguments presented, tbh) 
And a bunch of laymen for the merger, too.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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The real problem here is not that the markets NEED to be merged, but that more people need to play villains. Wouldn't it make more sense to make villains more enticing to play? The market merger is a one sided WANT from people that play villains and feel they are being cheated because heroes get more stuff to pick from.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
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The real problem here is not that the markets NEED to be merged, but that more people need to play villains. Wouldn't it make more sense to make villains more enticing to play? The market merger is a one sided WANT from people that play villains and feel they are being cheated because heroes get more stuff to pick from.
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/e Queues Nethergoat
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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The real problem here is not that the markets NEED to be merged, but that more people need to play villains. Wouldn't it make more sense to make villains more enticing to play? The market merger is a one sided WANT from people that play villains and feel they are being cheated because heroes get more stuff to pick from.
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No, I rarely play Villains. I just want a larger population on the market, It will stabilize prices, improve supply, and generally improve the whole IO situation for everyone but the flippers.
Where's the downside?
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
Efficiency is not necessarily the goal. Some people like playing the game within a game. Merging the markets severely hurts one "mini-game" in City of Heroes.
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Efficiency is not necessarily the goal. Some people like playing the game within a game. Merging the markets severely hurts one "mini-game" in City of Heroes.
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<snicker> You said the "e" word to me. :P
And while my penchant for "efficiency" is well known in RO, I still feel that if the mini game detracts from the main game there's a problem IMO. Either IOs are for people who want to fight super powered battles, or they're just a toy for the minigame ~ a carrot to dangle before those who have no interest in spending enough time to figure the market out. I'm not interested in City of Day Traders, but I'll play it if it becomes reasonable to do so.
Until then I'll grind hundreds of millions of Merits/Tickets to get what I want and the markets can continue on down the sewer without me. People in RO can have the recipes I'm not using and if anyone wants to reciprocate they can.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
You don't need to play City of Day traders to get items. The markets aren't going down the drain. Your refusal to use the markets hurts you far more than it hurts the market. You are a drop of water next to an ocean. There are thousands of market users and much competition for nearly every item. New players have ample opportunity to buy and sell and afford items. All the "markets suck" and "markets are screwed" are people complaining just to complain. There's plenty of stuff on the market. There are plenty of ways to get items. Yes, some items are expensive. Yes, some items are rare.
I have no idea what items you, specifically, want or think are lacking on the market but most people who do complain don't actually find any of those items themselves. For example if you think you should have 10 purples from the market you should find 10 purples. If you think you should have 20 low level Pool Cs you should generate 20 low level Pool Cs. Find stuff, sell it, buy what you want. If you can't afford it you don't deserve it. You can't show up to the table with nothing and walk away with something. If the devs did think everyone should have everything they wanted items would simply be free. Nothing wrong with wanting everything to be free but the devs want you to work towards goals of piles of IOs and not obtain it instantly.
The market swings both ways. If you think there are huge holes in the market go out into the world and make those items and sell sell sell. If you think something is overpriced go out there and find it. Cash in.
I like the merger, but I'm not an economist.
I AM, however, failing my Macroeconomics class in Community College, so I think that about puts me on level with everyone else here, no?
Considering how many posts are in this thread, it seems I'm very late to the party.
But, it seems to me that all the people who object to the merger of the markets haven't seriously played a villain character or tried to buy and sell in the Black Market with a villain character.
If you asked me six or eight months ago if they should merge the markets, I would have said "no." Why? Because even though I occasionally played my villains and had villain characters, I mainly played my heroes and had just recently got my first level 50 hero and my first Kheldians.
I've completely changed my mind. They need to merge the markets, and they need to do it just to make Red Side a bit more playable. Right now, it is very difficult to sell stuff on the villain market. I can leave a full Black Market that will take weeks to sell more than a few pieces. This is very frustrating when you can't afford IOs and you need quick cash, and it means that I have less room for enhancements, salvage and recipes because I'm storing it instead of being able to sell it.
It can also be difficult to buy on the Black Market. Because the market is so small, it's prone to manipulation, price gouging, and inactivity. If you think selling is hard, how about buying stuff? Let's face it: there are far less villains than heroes. It's going to take me far longer, and probably be far more expensive, for me to buy all the salvage I need to build IOs. The frustration level is definitely higher than when I build more IOs than I know what to do with with my heroes.
So I would say that the Black Market is a huge quality of life issue for villains. The game is simply less enjoyable because of frustrations with the stupid market.
Saying "it ruins the RP aspect of the game, my hero would never buy and sell from villains," then you need to get your priorities straight. Hanging onto unmerged markets because of an RP thing is damaging the play experience of villains for petty reasons.
Wow, got long again indeed.
While I dont think both supply and demand growing would be a problem by itself, I still think that before merging the markets they'd have to make sure that on both sides you get the same amount of inf and drops per level.
For demand is triggered by levelling and needing new stuff then, and supply is generated from what you got while getting there.
Otherwise, e.g. if both get the same amount of drops but on one side you get more cash per xp for example for preventing streetcrime, one side will always be able to buy the better stuff from a merged market because they can outbid the poor side.
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I still think that before merging the markets they'd have to make sure that on both sides you get the same amount of inf and drops per level.
[/ QUOTE ]Inf/time and Merits/time are more dependent on your build/AT than on which side of the game you're on. (A petless masterind will not get the same reward rates of a fire/kin farmer; a brute will outstrip a solo Defender)
When they released a bunch of datamined numbers a while back, one of the statistics was "richest AT", which turned out to be Brutes. Though Smurphy may have had a not-insignificant impact on that
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
He didn't say inf/time he said inf/level.
Drop rates are a function of mob type and con.
Kill a Freak minion, its the same as a mook minion.
There is zero difference in earning potential, based on which side you are on.
For every fire/kin, there are the fire/psi farming doms, or the SS/fire brutes.... Really the top farming builds if that is your argument are so close as to be indistiguishable. Ask Smurphy for his numbers on this.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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He didn't say inf/time he said inf/level.
[/ QUOTE ]Same thing. (Edit: Specifically, the time it takes you to gain a given level depends more on your experience with the game than playing a Hero or a Villain. See comparisons between playtime to 50 for someone's first level 50 and their 5th)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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You don't need to play City of Day traders to get items. The markets aren't going down the drain. Your refusal to use the markets hurts you far more than it hurts the market.
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I'm not trying to hurt the market, I'm just more interested in being a super powered being battling other super powered beings. That's what brought me to this game, and that's a good part of what keeps me here, the other major part of that being the people in RO.
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I have no idea what items you, specifically, want or think are lacking on the market but most people who do complain don't actually find any of those items themselves.
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Mostly low level generic IOs for villains.
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For example if you think you should have 10 purples from the market you should find 10 purples. If you think you should have 20 low level Pool Cs you should generate 20 low level Pool Cs. Find stuff, sell it, buy what you want. If you can't afford it you don't deserve it. You can't show up to the table with nothing and walk away with something. If the devs did think everyone should have everything they wanted items would simply be free. Nothing wrong with wanting everything to be free but the devs want you to work towards goals of piles of IOs and not obtain it instantly.
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Obviously. It's supply and demand at the personal level. If I want to buy a purple I need the cash to buy a purple. The easiest way to get cash to buy a purple is to sell a purple. In the broadest terms of course.
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The market swings both ways. If you think there are huge holes in the market go out into the world and make those items and sell sell sell. If you think something is overpriced go out there and find it. Cash in.
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This was my exact argument when doomsayers were crying about the (then) new Merit system. If the Pool Cs other than the Big Three get too pricey, spend your merits on them instead of one of the Big Three.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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He didn't say inf/time he said inf/level.
[/ QUOTE ]Same thing. (Edit: Specifically, the time it takes you to gain a given level depends more on your experience with the game than playing a Hero or a Villain. See comparisons between playtime to 50 for someone's first level 50 and their 5th)
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It's not quite the same thing. There is a stated imbalance between how many merits are earned 1-50 on both sides. However, assuming that the Merit system does work on general average times, Merits per minute are roughly equivalent across the board. I don't think there's any "earning potential" barrier barring a market merger. But there is a distinction in items earned from 1-50 as opposed to items earned per hour.
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I'm not trying to hurt the market, I'm just more interested in being a super powered being battling other super powered beings. That's what brought me to this game, and that's a good part of what keeps me here, the other major part of that being the people in RO.
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Correct me if I'm mistaken... I thought you said that you do not use the markets now but you would after a merger. Why is that? If you don't like using the markets because you'd rather get down and dirty and beat the snot out of stuff that's fine. If you don't use the markets because of lack of competition or flippers or something that's just silliness.
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I'm not trying to hurt the market, I'm just more interested in being a super powered being battling other super powered beings. That's what brought me to this game, and that's a good part of what keeps me here, the other major part of that being the people in RO.
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Correct me if I'm mistaken... I thought you said that you do not use the markets now but you would after a merger. Why is that? If you don't like using the markets because you'd rather get down and dirty and beat the snot out of stuff that's fine. If you don't use the markets because of lack of competition or flippers or something that's just silliness.
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It's both. if the markets were more casual friendly I'd use them. I'm not interested in getting into market PvP (which is mostly what goes on there AFAICT). The first step in making them markets more casual friendly and less of a hard core mini game is to merge them. Merging them will help stabilize the market. There are additional steps that could be taken, but IMO this is the first one that SHOULD be taken.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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I still think that before merging the markets they'd have to make sure that on both sides you get the same amount of inf and drops per level.
[/ QUOTE ]Inf/time and Merits/time are more dependent on your build/AT than on which side of the game you're on. (A petless masterind will not get the same reward rates of a fire/kin farmer; a brute will outstrip a solo Defender)
When they released a bunch of datamined numbers a while back, one of the statistics was "richest AT", which turned out to be Brutes. Though Smurphy may have had a not-insignificant impact on that
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here's my take on it. the people that want the markets merged are primariliy blue side players. they have loads of influence blueside because of farming w/their fire/kin trollers using basic IO's. they want to play a villain toon and find out that there is nothing equivalent to a fire/kin trollers redside. most farms redside are done with a ss/x brute and a kin, or maybe a perma dom x/psi; essential it takes a team to farm (liberate nem) map w/relative ease and speed, and therefore 1 or 2 person doesn't get all the goodies, it gets divied up.
another thing to consider is in PI, ppl love to fill. you ask for 4 fillers, and you'll get it instantly. you go to GV and ask for 4 fillers, and its pulling teeth.
ppl that are against the merger i'd guess are mostly redside players that don't want their infamy reduced to influence value.
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people that want the markets merged are primariliy blue side players... ppl that are against the merger i'd guess are mostly redside players
[/ QUOTE ]Aaaand... you'd be wrong.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I still think that before merging the markets they'd have to make sure that on both sides you get the same amount of inf and drops per level.
[/ QUOTE ]Inf/time and Merits/time are more dependent on your build/AT than on which side of the game you're on. (A petless masterind will not get the same reward rates of a fire/kin farmer; a brute will outstrip a solo Defender)
When they released a bunch of datamined numbers a while back, one of the statistics was "richest AT", which turned out to be Brutes. Though Smurphy may have had a not-insignificant impact on that
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here's my take on it. the people that want the markets merged are primariliy blue side players. they have loads of influence blueside because of farming w/their fire/kin trollers using basic IO's. they want to play a villain toon and find out that there is nothing equivalent to a fire/kin trollers redside. most farms redside are done with a ss/x brute and a kin, or maybe a perma dom x/psi; essential it takes a team to farm (liberate nem) map w/relative ease and speed, and therefore 1 or 2 person doesn't get all the goodies, it gets divied up.
another thing to consider is in PI, ppl love to fill. you ask for 4 fillers, and you'll get it instantly. you go to GV and ask for 4 fillers, and its pulling teeth.
ppl that are against the merger i'd guess are mostly redside players that don't want their infamy reduced to influence value.
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Man I love your vision on what people want, maybe next time you can check what you sayin eh?
I only say that if, through whatever means, a player of a given level on one side can accumulate more cash/ more drops than a player of the same level on the other side, it becomes unfair for the latter if the markets are merged.
Not saying that is the case or that its blue side that has the sunshine (although that is usually the case 
), just that its something one needs to consider and yet another thing that would have to be balanced then, while its not so much a problem if the markets are seperated.
Which is yet another problem. IOs were nerfed in PvP. now why do you suppose that is? Maybe one side or the other was unable to consistently get the IOs they needed to build out their characters for a reasonable amount?
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
Or maybe IOs pushed powers so far out that the devs couldn't balance them without hurting PvE.
I agree with the OP.