Dual Blades/Invulnerability against... stuff.
By
Alyx_Smith,
Posted on: 2009-01-22 16:04 in Scrappers
Okay, true, they're not completely wasted. However, they shouldn't be a build priority either. They fall into the "nice to have, but don't go out of your way for them" category.
(He, got it!)
Heh... One thing about max hp I have found is that you generally get more than you need in invuln just by going for the set bonuses that you find useful.
Regen is a heck of a lot better to invest in, and generally is in the first set bonus.
Now, keep in mind my advice was for DM/invuln specifically, which your priorities are first defense and second recharge.
Some builds like say fire/invuln can get away with lower recharge but need regen and recovery more for instance.
Sorry I ended up derailing the thread a bit Nihilii 
As far as I'm concerned, anything about Invul is on topic. 
It keeps the forum monster from eating the thread, which is another plus.
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It seems to me even with perma DP, +maxHP can still have some use as you can hold off using DP and use it as a big emergency heal when needed. It's definitely not something I'd build for, but it's not totally wasted either.
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I'm into +HP even with perma Dull Pain. I'm a big fan of holding off on it until I'm injured and not just using it for the buff. If I can get away with that behavior on Regen, people can definitely get away with it on Invulnerability.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Nihilii's build is sitting at 36.5 s/l and 33 f/c/n/e with one foe in range.
That puts it at the soft cap for s/l and ~43 f/c/n/e with 10 foes.
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My DM/INV -- tricked out with sets for +HP and+recharge
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That unfortunately is where you went wrong... the +HP does nothing for you really.
The recharge is needed however to get a nice attack chain and perma DP.
Basically, you want at least 41% defense to all s/l/f/c/n/e, with 43+ being preferable.
You also want upwards of 60% global recharge on top of hasten so you can chain smite/MG/smite/SL.
Nihilii has well over 300% regen in that build as well, but thats not quite as important for DM because of siphon life.
You will still want ~80-85% heal enhance in SL and 280-300 passive regen.
Add on top of that soul drain with less than 10 seconds downtime and some decent endurance control and you can lay some serious smack down with DM/invuln.
Just dont expect it to be cheap (although it will be cheaper than werners builds by a good margin).
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Thx. I may go back at some point and rebuild the DM/INV to see if I can do better. It just felt super squishy at the time. Will dig up and PM you my MIDS build for it (that I had, before stripping it) for any further insights. My Kat/WP feels much stronger these days -- cept for darn lethal dmg.
"Sometimes you have to roll the Hard Six." -- Adama
Teabagging Ms. Liberty - http://kk-comics.com/allmmproject/rsf21.jpg
The Red and the Black - Gaussian Arc, Unyielding
[u]Challenge settings :[u]
- No inspirations
- No deaths
- Player debuffed
- Enemies buffed
Mission 1
Video
I chose to go straight to the point ; while I killed everything that was on my way, I didn't wander around clearing the whole map.
Vengeful Slice's knockdown proved to be an invaluable tool against bosses. With enemies buffed, they hit often, and hard.
Against the boss ambush, I used hit and run tactics... as I had to escort the hostage to the door, anyway.
Mission 2
Video
The first encounter was brutal. Sefu's captors and a normal spawn. I pulled back to avoid getting buffed by Dispersion Bubble, and almost died.
Sefu managed to bubble me... I went ahead and lost him, then did a bit of useless hit and run with the boss (I already forgot about the bubble softcapping me).
Mission 3
Video
I wanted to move away from Lady Grey so she couldn't help me. Buffed minions made short work of her in about ten seconds. Oops. Mission Failed !
Mission 4
Video
Sefu is a tough one, as a buffed EB.
His repulsion field made my animations go crazy - Nimble Slash would randomly play instead of the correct one.
Mission 5
Video
Longbows are kind of a joke, in solo missions. It doesn't help that the ambushes are bugged and act as allies to the player.
Mission 6
Video
Superman has Lex Luthor, Batman has the Joker, Powerforge has Silver Mantis... and I have Dietrich. Geez, I hate Dietrich, even as an EB. 
I didn't want to clear the whole mission and skipped most of the spawns. I ended up skipping too much and had to go back to the same places multiple times...
Final time : 0:43:31
This is the first time I ran an arc with player debuffed / enemies buffed, and it was fun ; in my opinion, it's a good way to make regular missions challenging without turning it into the slugfest that is your average AV fight. Buffed EBs, in particular, feel just right. With +50% acc and dam, their offense seems as good as AVs, and unlike AVs they haven't godlike hitpoints.
Good to see a lot of these challenges are proving insurmountable. Soloing Archvillains tends to attract the attention of the nerf hammer.
Granted, there's a big difference between a Faultline arc AV like Nocturne and a Praetorian arc AV like Infernal. Which is good, because I solo the Faultline storyline arc AVs all the time with all sorts of characters.
Umm... Im a little confused... This is a thread about all the stuff Nihilii has accomplished, not failed.
You have read past the initial post right?
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Granted, there's a big difference between a Faultline arc AV like Nocturne and a Praetorian arc AV like Infernal.
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I agree : Nocturne is much harder than Infernal, and Praetorians tend to be easier than Faultline AVs.
That's probably not what you expected to hear, but this is how it is for my build. Most praetorians I can beat without inspirations, but I have to pop purples for any Faultline AV.
Buffed EBs are fun... I couldn't help but think "what if I tried buffed AVs?"
However, "player debuff" isn't an option here. My damage output is barely enough to solo AVs as it is, I can't afford to debuff it.
Buffed Chimera
Screenshot
Videos :1 2
His Headsplitter can hit for around 1100 damage with DoTs, and defense debuffs stack fast. I ran around a lot, to heal and to get him to switch to his bow.
Buffed Shadowhunter
Screenshots : 1 2
Video
I felt I might get hit too much without some minions, as his stone cage debuffs by 10% and recharges fast. Despite being softcapped, my life went up and down fast so I think it was a good choice.
Now this might seem a bit petty. In another topic, I got into an argument with someone about Shadowhunter's damage. I believed he could hit 3000 damage, and I was told I was wrong.
However, in this fight, his Seismic Smash doesn't always do the same damage. He hits me for 770 most of the time, but the first time he uses it, he hits me for 1034. That means if he wasn't buffed, he would have hit for (1034 x 2/3 =) 690 damage. As I have 70% S/L resistance, his damage on a target without resistance would be (690 / 0.3 =) 2300. It seems possible for Shadowhunter to do enough damage to kill a regen scrapper sidekicked (-1 to him) without Resilience, with DP up, if he isn't exactly at the HP cap or if he's still getting hit by Stone Cage's DoT at the same time (which is what I saw twice, and this is what prompted me to suppose he was doing around 3000 damage).
So... I'm wondering if anyone has a clue why does this happen. Shadowhunter doesn't seem to have a Build Up power. Could it be a specific attack, a SS clone he's only using once ? Everytime I've seen it happen, it was near the beginning of the fight, during the first minute or two.
*Edit : It seems Battlemaiden is doing the same thing... Headsplitter does 770 damage most of the time, but sometimes it does 1100. It might be the challenge setting stacking with itself for a split second, just like Invincibility, AAO and RttC do.
*Edit2 : I used the Power Analyzer on her and watched her Combat Attributes ; this is exactly what happens. It briefly stacks for half a second every minute or so.
Nihilii,
Can i ask you what your attack chain looks like? I read through most of these and i may have missed it somewhere but i'm not to familiar with dual blades and i am trying to decide on a primary for my new scrapper. Also i think i read somewhere that you had around 130ish dps with this attack chain is that correct?
My attack chain is Blinding Feint => Attack Vitals (which is Ablating Strike, Vengeful Slice, Sweeping Strike). I have around 170 DPS with that chain ; however, it drops fast against foes with lethal resistances, as Achilles Heel -res is also being resisted.
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My attack chain is Blinding Feint => Attack Vitals (which is Ablating Strike, Vengeful Slice, Sweeping Strike). I have around 170 DPS with that chain ; however, it drops fast against foes with lethal resistances, as Achilles Heel -res is also being resisted.
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nice thanks, i think i may try dual blades i didn't realize it could get its DPS up that high thats pretty solid.
While it isn't bad, I believe all other scrapper primaries except Spines can reach that too.
What's good about BF => Attack Vitals is it doesn't take much recharge to get there, and it has a very efficient damage per endurance ratio. You're also looking good while doing it.
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My attack chain is Blinding Feint => Attack Vitals (which is Ablating Strike, Vengeful Slice, Sweeping Strike). I have around 170 DPS with that chain ; however, it drops fast against foes with lethal resistances, as Achilles Heel -res is also being resisted.
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nice thanks, i think i may try dual blades i didn't realize it could get its DPS up that high thats pretty solid.
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Technically, it can get DPS up around 235 without damage buffs from the secondary, I believe. Shred Monkey would know better than I.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Really ? Hmm... Best I can get is ~225 on a gapless BF->AS->SS->AS, using Heca proc + Achilles in AS, Arma proc + Eradication proc in SS, and Mako proc in BF, and I can't get it with any secondary. Even my SR Mids build would have a 0.06s gap, and that build wouldn't have Aid Self nor enough endurance to sustain the chain. Another SR build would have a 0.12s gap and Aid Self, dropping the DPS to 215.
I still have much to learn. 
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Really ? Hmm... Best I can get is ~225 on a gapless BF->AS->SS->AS, using Heca proc + Achilles in AS, Arma proc + Eradication proc in SS, and Mako proc in BF, and I can't get it with any secondary. Even my SR Mids build would have a 0.06s gap, and that build wouldn't have Aid Self nor enough endurance to sustain the chain. Another SR build would have a 0.12s gap and Aid Self, dropping the DPS to 215.
I still have much to learn.
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Or my memory just sucks. I'm either remembering or misremembering that Shred Monkey's AV soloing build was doing 231 DPS. Then he dropped Aid Self for additional DPS, so I figured 235 DPS was probably lower than what he actually achieved.
For proof of concept builds that I poked at, let's see... I have one at 220 DPS and another at 214 DPS, so I'm definitely more in your neighborhood.
Shred, what sort of DPS do you do?
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Really ? Hmm... Best I can get is ~225 on a gapless BF->AS->SS->AS, using Heca proc + Achilles in AS, Arma proc + Eradication proc in SS, and Mako proc in BF, and I can't get it with any secondary. Even my SR Mids build would have a 0.06s gap, and that build wouldn't have Aid Self nor enough endurance to sustain the chain. Another SR build would have a 0.12s gap and Aid Self, dropping the DPS to 215.
I still have much to learn.
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Or my memory just sucks. I'm either remembering or misremembering that Shred Monkey's AV soloing build was doing 231 DPS. Then he dropped Aid Self for additional DPS, so I figured 235 DPS was probably lower than what he actually achieved.
For proof of concept builds that I poked at, let's see... I have one at 220 DPS and another at 214 DPS, so I'm definitely more in your neighborhood.
Shred, what sort of DPS do you do?
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I have a build that has 1 tick (.132s) of delay in the bf>ah>ss>ah chain (97.5% global recharge from IOs) and has 34.5% global damage (running assault). I calculated that at about 239 dps. It was enough to kill nightstar once but that took somewhere between 45 and 60 minutes... I think sometimes I was losing ground in that fight depending upon the frequency of procs and crits.
I think claws can beat that now, but it's been a while since I looked at it.
I honestly kind of gave up the DPS spreadsheet as of late except to calculate endurance and recharge requirements. Mainly due to my new DM/Shield build. The +dam in that build is so variable that it's impossible to estimate a theoretical model of DPS that's really a decent match to reality.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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I honestly kind of gave up the DPS spreadsheet as of late except to calculate endurance and recharge requirements. Mainly due to my new DM/Shield build. The +dam in that build is so variable that it's impossible to estimate a theoretical model of DPS that's really a decent match to reality.
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There's so much truth in this that I functionally gave up trying to find the median DPS expectancy weeks ago.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again. |
Thats easy... The median DPS expectancy of DM/SD is a metric butt load.
Seriously though, I just figure the base damage before soul drain and with one target in AAO and figure that it only goes up from there.
Trying to get anymore complicated than that is asking for a brain hemorrhage.
I can't seem to self-cap my DM/Shield's dmg at 400% (combat attributes) though, no matter how hard I try to herd on ITFs 
For the record I went DM/Shield on my Scrap way before people figured out it was uber ... I was just like, hm, def set with no heal, let's go dark for SL .... lucky me this time.
"Sometimes you have to roll the Hard Six." -- Adama
Teabagging Ms. Liberty - http://kk-comics.com/allmmproject/rsf21.jpg
I rolled a DM/Shield scrapper a few weeks ago, but after seeing the DPS Shadow Monkey is doing I rerolled as a tanker. If a scrapper can get to 300, it's likely a tanker could be at least over 160... and solo AVs, too.
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I rolled a DM/Shield scrapper a few weeks ago, but after seeing the DPS Shadow Monkey is doing I rerolled as a tanker. If a scrapper can get to 300, it's likely a tanker could be at least over 160... and solo AVs, too.
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! That's a helluva thought actually! 
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I rolled a DM/Shield scrapper a few weeks ago, but after seeing the DPS Shadow Monkey is doing I rerolled as a tanker. If a scrapper can get to 300, it's likely a tanker could be at least over 160... and solo AVs, too.
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Definitely. Dark Melee tankers are already on the verge of soloing pylons, if they haven't already. A Dark Melee/Shields tanker should be able to do absolutely crazy stuff.
Hey... maybe you're onto something. Maybe that's a tanker I could actually enjoy instead of just slogging through. I'm SO going to go build one. Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious!
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
It seems to me even with perma DP, +maxHP can still have some use as you can hold off using DP and use it as a big emergency heal when needed. It's definitely not something I'd build for, but it's not totally wasted either.
)
(For the record, I'm a "he"