Guide to Issue 13 Base Costs / Requirements
By
9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-11-05 13:20 in Base Construction
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I also don't get the cries about no more "free" rent. ~2000 prestige is less than 2 solo radio missions at level 50. I can handle that.
I must be missing something. I need to read more.
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The "free" rent was a convenience.That is why. For a small base you didn't have to make a special trip to Atlas to pay rent. Which is a pain in the a**. I don't know many who "enjoy" having to go to Atlas, talk to the city base rep to pay rent. I think that is what those who have small bases are concerned with, not the amount.
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*May you all be a hero in someone's life.*
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A storage limit of 30 salvage is ridiculous.
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Why? It's considerably more community invention storage than you have now, and the amount of salvage needed to craft a given item is considerably less in the i13 system. If you allowed 2500, or 999, or even 100 invention salvage per rack, it would encourage hoarding to a degree that would seriously threaten the markets, especially red side. I think 30 is generous.
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The system is more complex than the old.
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Maybe this is because I'm new to the old system, but the new system seems much, much simpler to me. The old system dropped an incredible array of different salvage, most of which differed only in name and graphics. There were dozens of different recipes to craft completely identical components. And the components were indistinguishable from one another in purpose and character. It seems to me like a system of needless and totally arbitrary variety.
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You're wrong on both counts:
1. If they remove the "Convert Invention Salvage into Base Salvage (Actually Base components) from the Invention Tables - I'm certain the price of nearly all common & some uncommon salvage will drop significantly.
So many people buy up common salvage at less than vendor prices, to do this with - (buy the hundreds in many cases), that just removing this option/behavior would severely reduce the demand for salvage.
2. The only thing complicated about the Base Salvage was matching it up, IF you didn't know to select "filter out the recipes you lack the materials for" in the workbench or empowerment station - while building base components from the large variety of base salvage that exists.
Furthermore, some of us liked the variety & had the majority of the Component recipes committed to memory - and the recipes for Crafted Base Items only need an assortment of components from either the 6 types for Arcane or the 6 for Tech...
Granted some of the larger items required a lot of Base Components - and the new Base Item recipes require about the same as an IO.
Another problem is that the current setup STILL has Empowerment stations are still eating up Invention Salvage!
That's what people we're doing with "Invention Salvage converted to Base Salvage" (=components), several people had established "businesses" buying Invention & base salvage cheap and converting it into components to sell to other people - who used them to power their Empowerment Stations...
And many people also used that method to get Fabricator as well, but if they We're to KEEP Base salvage dropping only in SG mode - AND Rename it "Evidence", Clues, Calling Cards, or something other than "Salvage".
This would let people still get a bit more than just prestige for being in SG mode & it could keep the New "Brain Storming Ideas" mechanic in the game (& letting people turn "Evidence" into random salvage - that's something they should keep IMO.
If only to give people another way to work on Fabricator, its a new Game mechanic that involves chance & they're gonna have players that dig it and be bummed when all the "legacy" base salvage runs out - they could keep it going.
Plus, they could just keep the current bins as Evidence + (Special & Event Salvage) Bins & and put in a New "Invention Salvage Bin" - those should still hold more than 30 items!
Only the marketeers like the 30 item limit, enough people auto delete ALL uncommon salvage, & MOST Common salvage Except Luck Charms & a few other notables - saving their space for Rare Salvage while they're out running missions, street sweeping, etc.
Letting SG/VG's hold thousands of common/uncommon salvage wouldn't be a problem. (especially if it's gonna be used for the Empowerment Stations, Crafted Base Items, AND IO's Plus the extra Demand for Multi-builds.
Not all of us want to use the method folks in the Market Forums espouse of using "Market Storage" - where they just sell everything for 1 to 11 Inf and buy it back when the need it -"using everyone's salvage as one communal salvage pool" or whatever, because it's normally cheap (=comparatively/for most of their toons). To them it's - "chump, change", they real penny-penchers might bid and wait til the next day - normally they just overpay!
You have no idea how much common salvage gets deleted, vendor'ed (Because people refuse to waste market slots to sell it- unless they list it for 1 inf to sell asap = just to get progress on their Market Sales Badges), or bought up in stacks of 10 for 11 to 50 Inf & then converted into Base Components, that are resold or used for Empowerments.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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Bad: The reduction of empowerment buffs to 15 minutes is absolutely stupid. As is the expense of some of the recipes. They're already underused. If you're going to just make them even less appealing, devs, eliminate them. And many of the other new recipes are.. not smart. You're asking for overly expensive salvage, which makes our jobs unduly more difficult.
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The "original" buff time for empowerment stations when first introduced were 15 minutes. They then changed them to 60 minutes,but the help text has never been updated. The buff should still be 60 minutes.
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It is. Yesterday I made a joke post about it in another thread that people took seriously. I've since edited it to make it clear I was just joking, but, as PlasmaStream pointed out, my joke post was no sillier than some of the base changes that we've got with Issue 13 so it was easy to be fooled.
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Was just on test trying out the new system and I have 1 word for it....BAD!
1. For existing bases converting the base salvage to i/o salvage is royally annoying.
2. You run out of storage for the i/o's that you convert to on your alt, personal storage in the vault and in the salvage bins much too fast. The 30 item limit on the storage bins are ridiculous!
3. The possibility of theft of very valuable i/o salvage is beyond ridiculous since there are no safeguards in place on the storage bins.
4. The recipes themselves are nuts....there is absolutely no reason for a rare i/o salvage to be necessary for a tier 1 base item.
5. The elimination of the base salvage really puts into jeopardy the ability to build base items as SG members will not be willing to give up/donate valuable i/o salvage that can be used for personal enhancements (especially now that you are also introducing dual builds)
6. With only i/o being the only type of salvage in the game now your economy will go completely out of wack...if you think Hami Goos and Essence of the Furies are expensive now, wait until this new system goes live.
7. The powers that be keep on saying that they are doing everything they can to discourage RMT's, but this change will only amplify them. This is a gold mine for the gold farmers.
8. Crafting the base items has become more tedious that it was before. In the prior system, I would just load up on the different types of base salvage (since there was no limit as to the amount of different types of salvage) and sit in front of a crafting table and be able to build what ever I needed with out having to stop and "reload" on salvage as often as you will have to under the new system.
9. The multiple recipes for each base item is very confusing. I had thought that they had wanted to make base building easier and eliminate confusion.
I'm stopping now as typing this is making me angrier and angrier about the changes to the base building system. The changes have essentially taken what for me was one of the most creative fun parts of the game and ruined it. The new system really can not be allowed to go live as it has so many flaws and is, IMO, very poorly designed and executed.
DEVs, there have been many voices raised here in this forum asking you to please communicate with us about these changes. I implore you to please contact some of the "leaders" of the base building community (PlasmaStream, MadScientist, Hellgaurd, Snow_Globe, Robo_Knight just to name a few off the top of my head) and listen to their concerns about the new system. The changes to say the least are very very unpopular.
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^ This
Not to mention that any reductions in pricing to rooms/plots/rents has just been offset by using a lot more influence to purchase salvage for crafting base items. Total wash as far as I'm concerned an not really a change for the better.
Has anyone checked if the conversion rate in City Hall has been changed at all?
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It hasnt.
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DEVs, there have been many voices raised here in this forum asking you to please communicate with us about these changes. I implore you to please contact some of the "leaders" of the base building community (PlasmaStream, MadScientist, Hellgaurd, Snow_Globe, Robo_Knight just to name a few off the top of my head) and listen to their concerns about the new system. The changes to say the least are very very unpopular.
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This is a Guide in the Bases forum.
If you want to give feedback to the Devs, you should go to the forum: Issue 13 Feedback & Discussion. I doubt they're reading this here. 
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DEVs, there have been many voices raised here in this forum asking you to please communicate with us about these changes. I implore you to please contact some of the "leaders" of the base building community (PlasmaStream, MadScientist, Hellgaurd, Snow_Globe, Robo_Knight just to name a few off the top of my head) and listen to their concerns about the new system. The changes to say the least are very very unpopular.
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This is a Guide in the Bases forum.
If you want to give feedback to the Devs, you should go to the forum: Issue 13 Feedback & Discussion. I doubt they're reading this here.
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You are right, but I don't think that they will be listening there either. And to tell you the truth, I think that the Devs have probably internalized that this issue is a very unpopular one and they probably would like to be able to change at least part of what is now in open beta, but are being rushed by their bosses and marketing to go live.
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Plasma,
I am I reading your Empowerment station buffs for Tier 1 cost Nothing? or you don't know the cost yet?
Nothing is something
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Okay everyone, lets calm down. First, the prestige bonus' are going to be very useful for those without estabilished bases. Second, the rent reductions will basically remove ANY necessity for high levels to be running in SG mode losing influence. 3rd, the minimal storage sizes are too low, but it will help lower costs on the market. Also, I agree that there should be a slight increase in invention storage space, no more than 50 per rack (market issues) but more importantly, they should just make event and special salvage limit free. That way all 30-50 slots could be used for invention salvage and we won't have any problem.
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You define a "healthy market" as one in which the Marketeers benefit. Forget everyone else.
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No, I define a "healthy market" as one with a high trading volume. That means that there is availability and that people turn to the market when they need something, instead of turning to hoarding and private trades.
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Edit - Not to mention, this also vastly increases the dilemma a person faces. With Base Salvage, they could easily donate to the SG with no skin off their backs. With Invention Salvage, they have to make the decision to either support the SG or themselves. All for zero apparent gain.
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This is no more true than the choice between running in supergroup mode or not. Do I want to profit individually, or sacrifice some of my profit for the good of the SG? Most SGs that I've been involved with have no problem getting people to run in SG mode, so I'm less concerned about this than you are.
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Because there is an opportunity cost in filling up that 50 with salvage, but none in filling up the rack.
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The stuff for filling up the rack? Comes from the same place that the 50 fills up.
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If you have a character full of salvage, he can't earn more. That's the opportunity cost I'm talking about. That's not true of having a rack full of salvage.
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30 pieces is EXTREMELY trivial,
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What would you like to see instead?
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espeically when you factor in that that INCLUDES Event salvage and Candy canes.
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I agree that making event salvage share storage with invention salvage is a problem.
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I'm having a hard time convincing myself that you really believe this. Surely you can see that there's more benefit in storage racks than just trading with yourself. A full salvage rack doesn't prevent further drops; a full salvage inventory does. Salvage racks can be packed in into even the smallest base; personal salvage inventory can only be increased in small increments. Scattering salvage across multiple characters requires inconvenient multiple logins and good bookkeeping; storing salvage in racks allows immediate inventory assessment (without having to ask everybody in your SG "do you have a Chronal Skip?") and instant access to what's available.
Salvage racks spare you the opportunity cost of storing salvage on your characters and they afford you much greater convenience than keeping things across an array of alts and friends.
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No, there's not really a benefit for the cost.
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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I see a cost associated with cluttering a character's inventory and market slots with hoarded salvage. Especially market slots, which are one of the most precious commodities in the game. It's clear that you don't, and that you don't think having to relog or track inventory are significant burdens, either. I do, and I think other people do, too.
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Multiple logins and bookkeeping are trivial to pay, as compared to the piddly amount of storage the new system offers.
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Multiple logins and bookkeeping as costs should be compared to the cost of the storage bins: 15k prestige to place and 1k per rent period to keep. I'm not thrilled about the rent, but the placement cost seems pretty cheap to me.
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There's no point to using personal salvage, which is what Invention is, for group item, which Base Salvage was for.
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I don't see any point to the arbitrary distinction between group salvage and personal salvage. The only justification I've seen is the suggestion you made that it produces a tension between personal gain and the welfare of the SG. As I said, in every case I've observed people willing to put the SG ahead of their own benefit. If I were a game designer for NCNC, I'd suggest that if you share a SG with people who don't, maybe you should consider kicking the uncooperative people or finding a SG that better matches your (very common, in my experience) ideas of collective gain.
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I'll actually turn your point around: just because you're used to it and invested in it doesn't make it a good system. From a design perspective there's no good reason to maintain two completely independent salvage systems, so they might as well migrate to the one that is better designed, has fewer redundancies, and is more familiar to the largest number of players.
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Better designed?
Have you seen the recipe requirements? How is using an Arcane Rare (that's already stupidly overpriced on the market) for a Tier 1 object even close to being designed well?
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By "better designed" I was referring to invention salvage over base salvage. I don't have enough experience with the new base recipes to comment. This is one of the failings of the test environment, in my opinion: there is a perpetual shortage on the market, which makes it hard to test new sets and new recipes. This is exactly the situation that could occur on live if there's too much salvage storage available, especially if it's sharable and creates a viable and cheaper alternative to using the market.
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Decreasing supply, however (which is the effect of allowing hoarding), is bad, because while it increases prices, it can also result in shortages, which makes people hoard more.
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And did you miss the part about how there will be no increase in Invention Salvage drops to replace the Base Salvage drops?
Please see this post and the ones following it.
One supply is being removed... not replaced.... removed.
*poof*
gone
void
This IS a decrease in supply.
By your own statement, this is bad.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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You're wrong on both counts:
1. If they remove the "Convert Invention Salvage into Base Salvage (Actually Base components) from the Invention Tables - I'm certain the price of nearly all common & some uncommon salvage will drop significantly.
So many people buy up common salvage at less than vendor prices, to do this with - (buy the hundreds in many cases), that just removing this option/behavior would severely reduce the demand for salvage.
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It's an interesting point, and one I hadn't considered.
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2. The only thing complicated about the Base Salvage was matching it up, IF you didn't know to select "filter out the recipes you lack the materials for" in the workbench or empowerment station - while building base components from the large variety of base salvage that exists.
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This has not been so in my experience, which is as a newcomer to bases relative to you, who have the recipes memorized (which is an astounding feat, by the way). It is trivially easy on live to burn some rare and relatively precious piece of base salvage crafting a component that could have been built using any number of other recipes that consumed only common components. Since base salvage has no in-game rarity indicator, it's up to the individual to research recipes using the boards or some other out-of-game resource in order to avoid this trap. What's more, players might not even know that base salvage has differing drop rates, and so assume that any one recipe is as good as any of the other recipes.
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You have no idea how much common salvage gets deleted, vendor'ed (Because people refuse to waste market slots to sell it- unless they list it for 1 inf to sell asap = just to get progress on their Market Sales Badges), or bought up in stacks of 10 for 11 to 50 Inf & then converted into Base Components, that are resold or used for Empowerments.
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To be fair, neither of us knows. Your guess is as good as mine.
I do wonder how much of the trading volume on the market is represented by people who convert invention salvage to base salvage. Like you said, I have no idea, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 10% of the trading volume of the market. It sounds like you think it's much more than that. I think this is probably because of our relative experiences - you're a heavy base user, obviously, and it sounds like you have a lucrative conversion business going. I use my bases as convenience vendors for quick travel to various zones and easy storage of enhancements. I don't use empowerment stations. So each of us is inclined to view the market and bases through the lens of our own experiences.
All that said, I imagine that fewer players use empowerment buffs than don't, and I am certain that fewer players have edited a base than haven't. I suspect that your experience is the minority one. This doesn't mean that I think it should be sacrificed, but it does mean that you might be overestimating the impact of your play style upon the market, for example. I could certainly be wrong and totally underestimating the same thing, of course. Ultimately we're not likely to know in any absolute way.
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Decreasing supply, however (which is the effect of allowing hoarding), is bad, because while it increases prices, it can also result in shortages, which makes people hoard more.
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And did you miss the part about how there will be no increase in Invention Salvage drops to replace the Base Salvage drops?
Please see this post and the ones following it.
One supply is being removed... not replaced.... removed.
*poof*
gone
void
This IS a decrease in supply.
By your own statement, this is bad.
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I tend to agree. It sounds like you think I am 100% comfortable with every aspect of the changes, which is not the case. My point is just that allowing invention storage tables to hold 999 or 2500 items would be disastrous for the market, especially red side.
I do think that drop rates should probably be adjusted, but the devs like to get several months of live data on drop rates before making adjustments, as they did in the case of costume drops.
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No, I define a "healthy market" as one with a high trading volume. That means that there is availability and that people turn to the market when they need something, instead of turning to hoarding and private trades.
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Availability?
You do know that the Market is going to be pulling triple duty now with no change to drop rates. 1) First build. 2) Second build. 3) Base Building. And an optional fourth duty of Empowerment Stations.
Why should the "needs" of the Market trump the "needs" of basically anything else?
Availability comes from one thing...drop rates. Not the market. Not the marketeers.
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This is no more true than the choice between running in supergroup mode or not. Do I want to profit individually, or sacrifice some of my profit for the good of the SG? Most SGs that I've been involved with have no problem getting people to run in SG mode, so I'm less concerned about this than you are.
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This is not a matter of "some" profit, but a matter of a LOT of profit. In SG Mode, you still earn 50% inf while getting Invention AND Base salvage drops. You sacrifice 50% of the Inf, but still get the same drops plus contribute to the base through Base Salvage and Prestige.
This?
You make a MASSIVE choice of either a) profiting HIGHLY on Invention salvage or b) build a teleporter.
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If you have a character full of salvage, he can't earn more. That's the opportunity cost I'm talking about. That's not true of having a rack full of salvage.
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Except if you have to buy another salvage rack or you run up against the 18 storage item limit. Then you're stuck.
Like I said, I can store 11x the amount of a salvage rack on ONE character.
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What would you like to see instead?
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This idiotic idea of Invention Salvage being used for Bases gone. Nothing has to change. Nothing needs to change.
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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I see a cost associated with cluttering a character's inventory and market slots with hoarded salvage. Especially market slots, which are one of the most precious commodities in the game. It's clear that you don't, and that you don't think having to relog or track inventory are significant burdens, either. I do, and I think other people do, too.
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Market slots, for those who aren't marketeers, are simply storage. Nothing more, nothing less. Good storage for recipes that we can't craft. Good storage for Salvage that we can't use yet or want to save.
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Multiple logins and bookkeeping as costs should be compared to the cost of the storage bins: 15k prestige to place and 1k per rent period to keep. I'm not thrilled about the rent, but the placement cost seems pretty cheap to me.
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It's really piddly to update say a spreadsheet.
Earning 15k Prestige per rack, OTOH, to a small SG, isn't.
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I don't see any point to the arbitrary distinction between group salvage and personal salvage. The only justification I've seen is the suggestion you made that it produces a tension between personal gain and the welfare of the SG. As I said, in every case I've observed people willing to put the SG ahead of their own benefit. If I were a game designer for NCNC, I'd suggest that if you share a SG with people who don't, maybe you should consider kicking the uncooperative people or finding a SG that better matches your (very common, in my experience) ideas of collective gain.
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Why is there an arbitrary distinction?
To keep from happening exactly what will happen when this goes Live (not if, when).
The two systems are, and should be, kept separate. Invention salvage is used for building IOs, costumes, temp powers and respecs. Base Salvage is used for building Base stuff.
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By "better designed" I was referring to invention salvage over base salvage. I don't have enough experience with the new base recipes to comment. This is one of the failings of the test environment, in my opinion: there is a perpetual shortage on the market, which makes it hard to test new sets and new recipes. This is exactly the situation that could occur on live if there's too much salvage storage available, especially if it's sharable and creates a viable and cheaper alternative to using the market.
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All of your arguments seem to stem from some belief that the market is more important than anything else in this game. That the marketeers must be continuously catered to regardless of what it does to anyone else. Prices are going to skyrocket which is going to make things even more difficult for non-farmers, non-marketeers.
The Invention system itself needs a massive overhaul. Too many recipes require Rare Arcane Salvage and too few require Tech Rare. I've got around 30-40 recipes that I can't build (and can't sell because they are worthless on the vaunted Market) because they require either a Prophecy, Mu Vestment, Deific Weapon, Hami Goo, or the like. The number of Tech Rare recipes I've gotten since it was introduced can be counted on one hand.
And now they are simply making it worse. The only prior sticking point was Prestige when it came to building items. Now, Base Builders have to compete with everyone and their dog to build stuff for their base. The shortage is not limited to Test, but is also prevalent on Live. It's only going to get worse.
OK. I just finished reading through all 14 pages of posts for this topic. Luckily it is a slow work day but I do have a few questions before this goes live.
1) Do we get the difference in costs from our base rooms when they switch to new price or should I break down my base now and use the prestige when I13 goes live to rebuild at a lower cost. I understand the issue of the telporters so will rebuild all of them and hold them until I13 goes back.
2) I have not seen any mention on the Medical badges to reduce the difficulty of obtaining the medical room base items. Those are two of the hardest SG badges to obtain. I had hoped that they would be corrected with the rest of the base cost changes to make them easier for small SGs to obtain. Have not seen any mention of that issue here.
I appreciate the work so far in keeping us informed and hope you can assist with my two issues so I can start planning now about the direction of my base.
Thanks,
Totally newbie question here, but if I copy a character to the Test Server, does the SG and prestige follow? I thought that couldn't transfer. Is there a way to instantly *get* prestige on the test server to play around with the new prices and build out a base?
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Totally newbie question here, but if I copy a character to the Test Server, does the SG and prestige follow? I thought that couldn't transfer. Is there a way to instantly *get* prestige on the test server to play around with the new prices and build out a base?
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SG membership and prestige do not get copied with your character.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Your feeling seems to be that base building shouldn't be changed at all. You also seem to think that any changes that do get made should be to make it as similar as possible to the current live implementation, regardless of what other consequences that might have. I differ on all these points, and that's where we'll have to leave it.
I will respond to this comment, though:
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You make a MASSIVE choice of either a) profiting HIGHLY on Invention salvage or b) build a teleporter.
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I just checked prices on both markets for all three arcane teleporter recipes. Here's what I came up with:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Recipe 1:
Salvage WW BM
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Clockwork Winder 3,000 250
Temporal Sands 1,000 1,000
Simple Chemical 500 1,000
Psionic Manifestation 8,000 10,000
TOTAL 12,500 12,250
Recipe 2:
Salvage WW BM
------- -- --
Alchemical Silver 1,000 30,000
Symbol 2,100 1,000
Inert Gas 1,050 1,500
Black Blood of the Earth 10,000 50,000
TOTAL 14,150 82,500
Recipe 3:
Salvage WW BM
------- -- --
Ruby 1,000 350
Destiny 2,000 1,000
Silver 300 500
Hamidon Goo 600,000 1,400,000
TOTAL 603,300 1,401,850
</pre><hr />
To get the prices I took the highest value from the last five entries for each piece of salvage, so these prices are conservative.
For one of the recipes there is certainly a choice between high profit and a teleporter. For the other two recipes that is emphatically not the case.
Rather than try to convince the devs to leave things as they are on live, you might have more success convincing them to make the recipe arrays for other base items more like the teleporter recipes: two recipes that use only common and uncommon salvage, and one at most that uses a single piece of rare salvage.
Scrap
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1) Do we get the difference in costs from our base rooms when they switch to new price or should I break down my base now and use the prestige when I13 goes live to rebuild at a lower cost. I understand the issue of the telporters so will rebuild all of them and hold them until I13 goes back.
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I asked the same question and had yet to see a definitive answer so I went ahead and installed TC (never did it on my new computer) and checked out an old base I had there. When I sold rooms I did, indeed, get back the full amount I'd originally paid. There seems to be no reason to tear down your base before the patch goes live.
I plan on redoing my base but it's good to know instead of having to destroy my teleporters I can just create a new temporary holding room, move them into that and then replace their old room w/ the cheaper version and still see a full realization of the price reductions.
Control_________________ Old Cost________ New Cost
Mainframe_________________150,000__________ 50,000
Supercomputer___________1,500,000_________ 500,000
Database__________________106,000__________ 50,000
Terminal___________________30,000__________ 10,000
Corner Terminal___________ 32,000__________ 12,000
Pillar of Ice and Flame____50,000__________ 50,000
Combo Unit_________________25,000__________ 25,000
Holo Display_______________97,000__________ 25,000
Monitor Bank_______________85,000__________ 20,000
Mission Computer___________75,000__________ 75,000
Advanced Database ______1,060,000_________ 500,000
Mega Monitor _____________849,000_________ 200,000
AES___________________2,500,000_________ 2,000,000
-----------------------------------------
The cost for the AES in I12 is 2M not 2.5M. The I13 cost for the AES is the same then?
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For one of the recipes there is certainly a choice between high profit and a teleporter. For the other two recipes that is emphatically not the case.
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High profit is relative.
To a character that is NOT a marketeer and/or a flipper and rolling in oodles of Inf, 80k is a decent chunk of change for a couple sales.
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Your feeling seems to be that base building shouldn't be changed at all. You also seem to think that any changes that do get made should be to make it as similar as possible to the current live implementation, regardless of what other consequences that might have. I differ on all these points, and that's where we'll have to leave it.
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And your only basis for changing it is that it benefits "the Market" and by proxy, the marketeers and flippers. Why their profits should come on the basis of hurting everyone else is beyond me.
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Okay everyone, lets calm down. First, the prestige bonus' are going to be very useful for those without estabilished bases. Second, the rent reductions will basically remove ANY necessity for high levels to be running in SG mode losing influence. 3rd, the minimal storage sizes are too low, but it will help lower costs on the market. Also, I agree that there should be a slight increase in invention storage space, no more than 50 per rack (market issues) but more importantly, they should just make event and special salvage limit free . That way all 30-50 slots could be used for invention salvage and we won't have any problem.
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Event and special salvage CANNOT be put in the salvage bins. Invention salvage only. The special stuff will have to be traded character-to-character.
One step forward, three steps back.
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And your only basis for changing it is that it benefits "the Market" and by proxy, the marketeers and flippers. Why their profits should come on the basis of hurting everyone else is beyond me.
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No, that's my basis for feeling that salvage storage shouldn't go much higher than 30 per bin.
My support for eliminating base salvage is based on my perception that it is a large, needlessly complex, and confusing system that is used by a minority of players and overlaps conceptually with the better-designed invention salvage system. Having two completely independent salvage systems doesn't make sense conceptually or design-wise, and it adds an additional burden of understanding to new players, who are, after all, important to all of us.
Scrap
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Event and special salvage CANNOT be put in the salvage bins. Invention salvage only. The special stuff will have to be traded character-to-character.
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Don't have any Halloween Costume Salvage avalable to test this out on but I was able to put Old Base Salvage and Candy Cane salvage into a new Invention Storage Bin ( Brain Storm Ideas as well can go in )
Justice Shall Prevail Where The Laws Of Men Fail
22079 - Best MMO of the Year : "Heroes of Paragon City "
137005 - Introduction to Mission Architect : the Heroic Badge Collection
149433 - The Fall of Mender Moebius : Part 1 : The Beginning of the End
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Bad: The reduction of empowerment buffs to 15 minutes is absolutely stupid. As is the expense of some of the recipes. They're already underused. If you're going to just make them even less appealing, devs, eliminate them. And many of the other new recipes are.. not smart. You're asking for overly expensive salvage, which makes our jobs unduly more difficult.
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The "original" buff time for empowerment stations when first introduced were 15 minutes. They then changed them to 60 minutes,but the help text has never been updated. The buff should still be 60 minutes.
I believe our children are our future and I reflect on the lessons and values we taught them.
I believe the world has many real Villains,what we need are more Heroes.
*May you all be a hero in someone's life.*