City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Guide to Issue 13 Base Costs / Requirements

9thcircle

By 9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-11-05 13:20 in Base Construction

 

Posted

Bleh... kept forgetting to say a big thanks to PlasmaStream and all for collating all the info for this. It's very much appreciated.

Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper

Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If our input was wanted, we've been offering it for weeks. The opposite of what we asked was given.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I hear ya.... sad as it is to say, i13 is the first issue that I really can't get excited about. These changes seem very poorly thought out. I hope there is a bigger picture to why this drastic of a change was implemented.

Here's to hoping i14 will bring something worthwhile. As far as bases go, i13 is the ED and GDN of base updates

[/ QUOTE ]

It's just such a huge disappointment for me. From being an issue that was to have major base love to an issue that, for all intents and purposes, majorly NERFED bases.

DEVs, I am begging you, please do not let this aspect of i13 go live. The changes all seem to be very poorly thought out and rushed. Wait until you can give the base system the time and manpower needed to redesign it.

Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper

Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
As far as bases go, i13 is the ED and GDN of base updates

[/ QUOTE ]

And PvP, and Epics, and...

Telepad requirements thread. Granted, I already know what we have on Test is going live, but just trying to reinforce that what is on Test is a Bad Idea(tm).

 

Posted

[u]Why does it still cost so much to build a small starter base?[u] Isn't this supposed to help them? There is no price change for a starter base at all:

Items:
Combo Unit: (no change) 25,000
Teleporter: (no change) 15,000

Rooms:
Oversight/Combo room: (no change) 50,000
Teleport 1x1 1 porter: (no change) 50,000
Medical 1 connection: (no change) 50,000

And I ask that this item be looked at again, it still costs too much:

Energy: Basic Generator 225,000 to 200,000

Also, why the expensive costs of decorative rooms? Why does the 3x3 decorative room [u]still[u] cost more than the 3x3 sized control room? It's an inconsistency.

Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
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Posted

I gotta ask...which Genius thought this system was less "confusing" than the current Base Salvage?

Were the devs drunk when this was in concept stages? And they just said to hell with it and let it go?

For the first time, Issue 13 is something that is srsly making me reconsider my subscription. Just compounding stupidity on top of stupidity with this Issue.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[u]Why does it still cost so much to build a small starter base?[u] Isn't this supposed to help them?

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

The only changes that were done to bases this time were strictly in ways that will help PvPers. Nothing was done to help brand new people and the prices changes are not there to help you and me. They are very specifically there to help people get their bases ready for PvP.

This issue the devs were very obviously focused on PvP. I'm not personally happy about that, but PvP has been neglected since its inception in this game. Now that CoH/V is completely owned by the Korean company NCSoft you can believe that the devs have been given direct orders to make PvP better or else.

However I'm still hoping that the devs will let us know if there are going to be any more changes to bases in Issue 14.

 

Posted

Am I the only one that doesn't think all this sounds all that complicated, or horrific?

The crafting is different, sure, but once the conversion process is over, things look to my eye like they will be simpler than before. Basically it looks to be on par with the current invention system implementation.

I'm also not tracking on the doom and gloom regarding "pricing". I could nuke my current base to nothing but an entrance and a storage room with a couple salvage racks and still come out with piles of invention storage after I had rebuilt.

I also don't get the cries about no more "free" rent. ~2000 prestige is less than 2 solo radio missions at level 50. I can handle that.

I must be missing something. I need to read more.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta ask...which Genius thought this system was less "confusing" than the current Base Salvage?

Were the devs drunk when this was in concept stages? And they just said to hell with it and let it go?

For the first time, Issue 13 is something that is srsly making me reconsider my subscription. Just compounding stupidity on top of stupidity with this Issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

My husband asked me to play LOTRO with him. I bought the game and am downloading it now.

Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The only changes that were done to bases this time were strictly in ways that will help PvPers. Nothing was done to help brand new people and the prices changes are not there to help you and me. They are very specifically there to help people get their bases ready for PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

By adding rare (and expensive) salvage for basic Tier 1 base items? Who is going to want to use a Hami Goo to build a porter when they will more than likely need it for an IO in a dual build?

These changes give us no incentive at all to open up storage permissions to everyone. Thefts were bad enough when it was just IOs needing them, now add in dual builds AND base items and it is a whole lot worse.

Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper

Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."

 

Posted

Arcane Empowerment:

Tier 1 Arcane:

Confusion Resistance:
Luck Charm
Rune
Fortune

Fear Resistance:
Runebound Armor, Boresight
Ancient Bone, Improvised Cybernetic
Regenerating Flesh, Kinetic Weapon

Fire Resistance:
Runebound Armor, Computer virus
Ancient Bone, Circuit Board
Regenerating Flesh, Temporal Analyzer

Grant Invisibility:
Ancient Artifact, Simple chemical, Volume of the Obsidian Librum
Masterwork Weapon, Inert Gas, Living Tattoo
Nevermelting Ice, Silver, Psionic Threat Report

Increase Attack Speed:
Clockwork Winder, Boresight, Temporal Sands
Alchemical Silver, Improvised Cybernetic, Sybol
Ruby, Kinetic Weapon, Destiny

Increase Flight Speed:
Spiritual Essence
Demonic Blood Sample
Spirit Thorn

Increase Jump Speed:
Spell Scroll
Spell Ink
Demonic Threat Report

Increase Perception:
Spell Scroll
Spell Ink
Demonic Threat Report

Increase Run Speed:
Luck Charm
Rune
Fortune

Knockback Increase:
Spell Scroll
Spell Ink
Demonic Threat Report

Knockback Protection:
Luck Charm, Inanimate Carbon Rod
Rune, Scientific Theory
Fortune, Mathematic Proof

Lethal Resistance:
Luck Charm, Brass
Rune, Iron
Fortune, Ceramic Armor Plate

Sleep Resistance:
Spiritual Essence, Simple chemical
Demonic Blood Sample, Inert Gas
Spirit Thorn, Silver

Slow Resistance:
Luck Charm, Computer Virus
Rune, Circuit Board
Fortune, Temporal Analyzer

Smashing Resistance:
Runebound Armor, Simple Chemical
Ancient Bone, Inert Gas
Regenerating Flesh, Silver


Tier 2 Arcane:

Cold Resistance:
Spiritual Essence, Human Blood Sample
Demonic Blood Sample, Stabilized Mutant Genome
Spirit Thorn, Hydraulic Piston

Disorient Resistance:
Clockwork Winder, Brass
Alchemical Silver, Iron
Ruby, Ceramic Armor Plate

Endurance Drain Resistance:
Clockwork Winder
Alchemical Silver
Ruby

Energy Resistance:
Ancient Artifact, Computer Virus
Masterwork Weapon, Circuit Board
Nevermelting Ice, Temporal Analyzer

Fear Resistance:
Runebound Armor, Boresight
Ancient Bone, Improvised Cybernetic
Regenerating Flesh, Kinetic Weapon

Immobilize Resistance:
Ancient Artifact
Masterwork Weapon
Nevermelting Ice

Increase Recovery:
Ancient Artifact, Human Blood Sample, Clockwork Gear
Masterwork Weapon, Stabilized Mutant Genome, Alchemical Gold
Nevermelting Ice, Hydraulic Piston, Sapphire

Negative Energy Resistance:
Spiritual Essence, Boresight
Demonic Blood Sample, Improvised Cybernetic
Spirit Thorn, Kinetic Weapon

Toxic Resistance:
Runebound Armor, Human Blood Sample
Ancient Bone, Stabilized Mutant Genome
Regenerating Flesh, Hydraulic Piston


Tier 3 Arcane:

Hold Resistance:
Spell Scroll, Inanimate Carbon Rod
Spell Ink, Scientific Theory
Demonic Threat Report, Mathematic Proof

Psionic Resistance:
Clockwork Winder, Inanimate Carbon Rod
Alchemical Silver, Scientific Theory
Ruby, Mathematic Proof




Tech Empowerment:

Tier 1 Tech:

Confusion Resistance:
Brass
Iron
Ceramic Armor Plate

Fear Resistance:
Boresight, Spell Scroll
Improvised Cybernetic, Spell Ink
Kinetic Weapon, Demonic threat Report

Fire Resistance:
Computer Virus, Runebound Armor
Circuit Board, Ancient Bone
Temporal Analyzer, Regenerating Flesh

Grant Invisibility:
Simple Chemical, Ancient Artifact, Heavy Water
Inert Gas, Masterwork Weapon, Corrosive Gas
Silver, Nevermelting Ice, Gold

Increase Attack Speed:
Boresight, Clockwork Winder, Chemical Formula
Improvised Cybernetic, Alchemical Silver, Scientific Law
Kinetic Weapon, Ruby, Chaos Theorem

Increase Flight Speed:
Computer Virus
Circuit Board
Temporal Analyzer

Increase Jump Speed:
Inanimate Carbon Rod
Scientific Theory
Mathematic Proof

Increase Perception:
Boresight
Improvised Cybernetic
Kinetic Weapon

Increase Run Speed:
Simple Chemical
Inert Gas
Silver

Knockback Increase:
Brass
Iron
Ceramic Armor Plate

Knockback Protection:
Inanimate Carbon Rod, Luck Charm
Scientific Theory, Rune
Mathematic Proof, Fortune

Lethal Resistance:
Brass, Luck Charm
Iron, Rune
Ceramic Armor Plate, Fortune

Sleep Resistance:
Simple Chemical, Spiritual Essence
Inert Gas, Demonic Blood Sample
Silver, Spirit Thorn

Slow Resistance:
Computer Virus, Luck Charm
Circuit Board, Rune
Temporal Analyzer, Fortune

Smashing Resistance:
Simple Chemical, Runebound Armor
Inert Gas, Ancient Bone
Silver, Regenerating Flesh


Tier 2 Tech:

Cold Resistance:
Human Blood Sample, Spiritual Essence
Stabilized Mutant Genome, Demonic Blood Sample
Hydraulic Piston, Spirit Thorn

Disorient Resistance:
Brass, Clockwork Winder
Iron, Alchemical Silver
Ceramic Armor Plate, Ruby

Endurance Drain Resistance:
Human Blood Sample
Stabilized Mutant Genome
Hydraulic Piston

Energy Resistance:
Computer Virus, Ancient Artifact
Circuit Board, Masterwork Weapon
Temporal Analyzer, Nevermelting Ice

Fear Resistance:
Boresight, Spell Scroll
Improvised Cybernetic, Spell Ink
Kinetic Weapon, Demonic Threat Report

Immobilize Resistance:
Inanimate Carbon Rod
Scientific Theory
Mathematic Proof

Increase Recovery:
Human Blood Sample, Ancient Artifact, Mutant Blood Sample
Stabilized Mutant Genome, Masterwork Weapon, Mutant DNA Strand
Hydraulic Piston, Nevermelting Ice, Pneumatic Piston

Negative Energy Resistance:
Boresight, Spiritual Essence
Improvised Cybernetic, Demonic Blood Sample
Kinetic Weapon, Spirit Thorn

Toxic Resistance:
Human Blood Sample, Runebound Armor
Stabilized Mutant Genome, Ancient Bone
Hydraulic Piston, Regenerating Flesh


Tier 3 Tech:

Hold Resistance:
Inanimate Carbon Rod, Spell Scroll
Scientific Theory, Spell Ink
Mathematic Proof, Demonic Threat Report

Psionic Resistance:
Inanimate Carbon Rod, Clockwork Winder
Scientific Theory, Alchemical Silver
Mathematic Proof, Ruby

 

Posted

Hm.

Good: Massive drop in many costs, particularly rooms and plots. That plus the rent adjustment means I can safely upgrade my small stuff. I've had a tiny SG or two that's been restricted to just the free plot - plenty in the bank, but not enough consistently coming in to overcome rent. These changes mean I can safely go whole-hog in spending, since I can recoup the rent costs in one or two casual missions. Also, the relaxed pathing restrictions (once they're fixed) are a big bonus.

Bad: The reduction of empowerment buffs to 15 minutes is absolutely stupid. As is the expense of some of the recipes. They're already underused. If you're going to just make them even less appealing, devs, eliminate them. And many of the other new recipes are.. not smart. You're asking for overly expensive salvage, which makes our jobs unduly more difficult.

Ugly: I understand that Brainstorms are really just a stopgap to give us a way to drain our overabundant reserves of base salvage, but c'mon. It could be done more simply and easily. This is overly complex, and for no reason.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Bad: The reduction of empowerment buffs to 15 minutes is absolutely stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ones that I tested out, still last for the whole hour. The text says 15 minutes but the buff kept going.

 

Posted

QR

What happens if you have more than 30 salvage in a base salvage rack when the capacity is lowered? does all the salvage stay where is now, but once you take it out you can't put it back in? Or does it get lost in limbo?

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
QR

What happens if you have more than 30 salvage in a base salvage rack when the capacity is lowered? does all the salvage stay where is now, but once you take it out you can't put it back in? Or does it get lost in limbo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Stays where it is until you yank it out.

@PlasmaStream
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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Bad: The reduction of empowerment buffs to 15 minutes is absolutely stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ones that I tested out, still last for the whole hour. The text says 15 minutes but the buff kept going.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gah! That came from a joke post I made in another thread! It's not part of issue 13. I'll go edit the post to make it perfectly clear I was only joking.

 

Posted

A storage limit of 30 salvage is ridiculous.

The system is more complex than the old.

It's burdensome to base builders. It encourages theft.

Issue 13 base salvage changes: Fail

Edit: Already crafted items place at the old cost, if you haven't placed them already they're wasted effort.

There are so many things wrong with this new system I get furious just thinking about it.

Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
A storage limit of 30 salvage is ridiculous.

The system is more complex than the old.

It's burdensome to base builders. It encourages theft.

Issue 13 base salvage changes: Fail

Edit: Already crafted items place at the old cost, if you haven't placed them already they're wasted effort.

There are so many things wrong with this new system I get furious just thinking about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This. 30 items? That won't even hold my SG's Halloween salvage.

And I know there is no way they are going to reverse all these - well, to call them unwanted would be an understatement - changes, but could they at least make it so our precrafted items are placed at the lower cost? Devs, if you're going to screw us over, do you mind not rubbing our faces in the dirt while you're at it?

"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

 

Posted

The pricing changes don't look too bad. That plot size costs can be recouped with about 5 clicks is very good news to me. I don't see it helping the entry level folks, and it most certainly didn't hit the other pricing issue we've had on the forums: Jump in cost when moving out of the Oversight center.

The change to Salvage is ...crazy. Seriously, can we get a sane reason for this? "People are disappointed by Base Salvage Drops" isn't a sane reason. This goes directly counter to the last change in base costs. Prestige was made to compete less with influence gain. Why the sudden need to make crafted items suddenly compete with inventions? (And why is the invention system suddenly being "forced" on a player segment?)

While creating components could be confusing, the filters made is easy to find what you could create, and thus, what components you had available to craft items with. It was simple to craft in the base, one stop shop. With this new, sloppier system, we'll have to cajole SG members to come to the base with salvage, or leave to the CH with a list of components needed in hand. Great.

To make matters worse, the whole conversion of base to invention only encourages players to horde or steal existing salvage. Compounding the problems with bases competing with inventions.

I just can't see a single good thing coming from this in any way, shape or form.
Lord, there better be a damn good reason for this.

 

Posted

* Any CRAFTED item that HAS NOT changed in placement price (teleporters) that you presently have stockpiled can be held on to for later placement. They will still work.

* Any CRAFTED item that HAS changed in placement price (most energy control second tier or higher items) that are made with BASE salvage will be placed at the OLD price. If they are made with INVENTION salvage, they will be placed at the NEW price. Both version will work.

* Salvage racks are converted AUTOMATICALLY. You don't get to choose to not replace your salvage racks. However, items in the salvage racks are safe. You can take things out, but you cannot put things back in until the number of items in the rack drops back under 30.

* It does not cost influence to convert base salvage to brainstorms, or brainstorms to invention salvage.

* The amount of upkeep each item costs may be found in that item's INFO tab.

Known Items (cost is per EACH):

Workshop:
* the Invention table and the basic work tables: 0 prestige
* All storage items, advanced tables and expert work tables: 100 prestige
* tier 2 empowerments station: 200 prestige
* tier 3 empowerment stations: 300 prestige

- I believe the Vault is included as a storage item for prestige as well as towards your total storage limit.

Medical:
* Basic reclaimator: 0 prestige
* Robo-surgeon / Spirit Signal: 100 prestige

- I *think* the Auto-Doc (and arcane version) costs 100 prestige. Combat Logs (and equiv. arcane) will probably, as well, but I don't have a way of knowing.

Transport:
* No costs for beacons or porters

Energy:

I thought I saw something about cost for auxes, but I don't recall where. Also, batteries?

Control:

Again, possibly auxes, but I haven't had a chance to check.

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Posted

First off I have to say thank you PlasmaStream for the guide, and saving alot of us from the tedium of researching the new costs.

Just a few comments basically reiterating what has already been said already.

The new rent system, and the new costs for rooms/base plot size is the only good thing I will give a nod of approval for.

The use of uncommon salvage in tier 1 base recipes, come on devs give us a freaking break, it is bad enough everything is on a 1 salvage system guaranteed to make the marketeers drool in anticipation, making what little beneficial changes you made for the bases worthless.

Salvage store capped at 30, you have to be kidding, some sort of twisted and sick joke right, you just wanted us to face palm riight? Seriously why note just take away storage altogether. Isn't a SG/VG a collective where you *pool* resources to make it a bigger and better place? And since everything uses the same salvage now, we need *real* storage capacity.

IMO the best thing that happened with I13 base modification is the guide itself.....

I am off to horde salvage now...with dual builds and the new system, and seemingly the same drop rate for salvage in test the prices will soar in the marketplace.

 

Posted

I just want to confirm one thing. From the comment on plot size ("to recoup plot costs you can 'buy' the existing plot you are on and receive the difference") I'm guessing at the answer but I'd really like to know for certain (I've read through the entire thread and haven't seen this referenced specifically).

Will refunds for rooms and items be available AFTER I13 goes live? That is, if I don't touch my base before the update, will I get a full refund when I sell things after the patch goes live?

I don't have a huge base or a very active SG, and I'd be perfectly willing to rebuild my base but I don't want to lose my crafted items (TPers anyone?). So if I can throw down a new, cheaper TP room, move the TPer into that room and sell the old room for the full amount I originally paid, I'm good with that. However, if I have to tear down my base before the patch goes live to get my full prestige back I'll be somewhat more frustrated.

Thanks for any responses and thanks to Plasma for this thread. Very useful info.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
* Any CRAFTED item that HAS NOT changed in placement price (teleporters) that you presently have stockpiled can be held on to for later placement. They will still work.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I understand all this right... If haven't made all the teleporters yet but enough salvage to do so (due to lack of room space), I would be advised to make them now and hold them in inventory?

The same however won’t be a good idea for other items?

Just checking, as I’m not sure I read everything right.