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Why should ED be reduced to zero, give less end, when the set should have end drain protection?
Just seems kind of odd, it's an energy themed set, has an end drain and a end reduction power, but it's got no end drain protection....
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Technically, one might count high defense to Energy as our protection since most drains have an energy component. One might do that. I wouldn't though. Throw a bit of End Drain protection in there.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
Actually, end drain and -recovery is not just from the sappers. When we fight ring mistress from Carnies, they have mask of vitiation, which can drain endurance and debuff recovery, and hit you easily. Your toggles can drop easily while fighting them.
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Actually, end drain and -recovery is not just from the sappers. When we fight ring mistress from Carnies, they have mask of vitiation, which can drain endurance and debuff recovery, and hit you easily. Your toggles can drop easily while fighting them.
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not to mention that all carnies when they are defeated have a PBAoE End drain. and don't for get all them Mu buggers. all their attacks have -recovery and - end in them
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
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frankly, I don't want a heal in EA. I don't think it belongs there. Thematically, it might be appropriate for electric armor (some frogs regenerate when you apply electricity to amputated legs, for example) But 1 'clickie' power in EA is enough of an interruption to my attack chain.
simply give energy drain a taunt component for the standard duration and add in exactly the same defense bonus (1% +.6% per opponent) as ice armor's energy absorption gets, for a total of 9% slotted defense and the ability to stack another 7.5% onto it.
Or even give it the brute modifier so that it's potential 6.75% surrounded by 10 opponents stackable for 12.375% .
With weave and CJ slotted that would give the set 41.25% s/l defense, with the potential to soft cap s/l, fire, cold, energy, and almost hit the soft cap for negative energy when you double-stack.
This would DRAMATICALLY improve the set's survivability, change the only real hole so that it's toxic/psionic, avoid the 'heal' issue entirely, and it won't modify the 'feel' of the set or break the rules. If a brute is going to energy drain everything, they are going to get aggro from them, so you might as well make the aggro useful even in teams.
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personaly i think having energy drain give +def per mob or +rez per mob is probably the best thing that can be done to the set with out ruining it's feel or making to many other major power changes.
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
This hasn't exactly been mentioned, but I think /EA would be a good canidate for a power that would speedcap Hover. Speedcap Hover, why would you want to do that? Well for PvP reasons. Now that Hover has actual -fly protection I want to see a Brute that can use Fly in PvP.
Hover isn't suppressed and it has -fly protection. Capped flight speed is still slower than running, jumping, teleport so it seems reasonable to allow you to get to unsupressed flight speed. I believe ATs with Kinetics can reach capped flight speeds with Hover already.
A Brute that can swoop down, actually knock another player down, and then follow them while flying would be fun. I'm sure it would still be considered lolmelee, especially since flight and melee go together like vegetarians and cowboys.
Anyway that's what I'd like to see /EA do, among other things.
Oh, I'd also like to see /EA be able to perma-cap a Brute's Hit Points. I'd rather see this on a /WP but it would be good on /EA as well.
Well seeing as you guys will never figure out that the devs are not going to fix EA because EA is not broken, I guess I will chime in with a dream modification.
The only thing I think EA needs to be fixed is for the stealth power to be as effective as stalker stealth in PvP, yet remain unsupressable to everyone but the target. Basically, the EA brute could force 1v1 situations and have some time to build some fury and do damage to toon types that are not instantly able to kill it without the target's buddies jumping right in and obliterating the EA brute.
What do you guys think?
And for the record, EA needs no change for PvE. My brute is a PvE deity and any changes would just make him too powerful.
aside from being horribly unbalanced and completely divergent from the concept of Brutes, sure that's a great PvP idea.
I won't address your opinion about EA since this thread isn't the place.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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aside from being horribly unbalanced and completely divergent from the concept of Brutes, sure that's a great PvP idea.
I won't address your opinion about EA since this thread isn't the place.
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Well, I honestly cannot say that I have stayed awake too many nights trying to end world hunger by fixing the EA set. But what I have noticed is that in my 2 years of playing my EA brute and respecing into three radically different build concepts is that at no point is the EA set really underpowered or unbalanced in PvE. My final build actually took the LRSF by storm, in fact.
But PvP has been another matter altogether. Even with my current build and its web 'nade, fear, teleport foe, three travel powers, and stealth IO, I am still stomped in PvE by pretty much everybody built for PvP. Totally ignorant players or toons that are just in no way optimized for PvP can be bested, but the fact that defense is screwed in PvP villainside and the distinctives of my set, the stealth, and endurance drain, are both totally useless, has made PvP the only milestone that I just cannot cross. PvP is the final frontier for the EA set. No man has gone there before.
Now you mentioned that my idea is totally contradictory to the brute concept. I will give you that my idea may be completely unbalanced. I really have not thought about it enough to know. But totally contradictory to bruting it is not. EA is a set built to make a brute that is an invisible energizer bunny of death. The concept of the EA brute is completely unlike any other brute.
That is why the EA set is like gold on the LRSF in a way that no other damage dealer is. I can get the code key just like any stalker can, but my overall damage output will put any stalker to utter shame.
So all I am asking for is that my invisible PvE brute actually gets to be an invisible PvP brute. I'm not asking for anything contrary to the bruting concept. At least the EA brute concept. I just want to be able to do in PvP what I do in PvE.
That being said, I would ask any of you who have any interest in the idea to come up with what stupid fanboy would think is a fair and balanced way to make EA stealth relevant and valuable in PvP in such a way that an EA brute can be survivable and effective in PvP while still maintaining balance.
I honestly think that once this is done, all these threads about EA being gimped will just go away.
I have to agree with FromBelow. I think the game needs to be shaken up a bit, especially in the PvP realm. /EA would be a good place to start. It doesn't have to be with the stealth idea but something original/different, that would be effective in PvP, would be a nice boost to this game.
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I have to agree with FromBelow. I think the game needs to be shaken up a bit, especially in the PvP realm. /EA would be a good place to start. It doesn't have to be with the stealth idea but something original/different, that would be effective in PvP, would be a nice boost to this game.
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I don't think gimicks are the way to bring melee in to high end team pvp, especially if it only works for one powerset.
Sure, the current situation needs to change, but doing so will probably have to be done by a long series of careful rebalances of buff stacking, pool powers, mobility, of the debuffs available to melees, and possibly of arena environments as well.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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This hasn't exactly been mentioned, but I think /EA would be a good canidate for a power that would speedcap Hover. Speedcap Hover, why would you want to do that? Well for PvP reasons. Now that Hover has actual -fly protection I want to see a Brute that can use Fly in PvP.
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I stopped reading right there. Why would you want to pvp with a brute, and why with fly? -KB has little to do with -Fly. There's plenty of -Fly already in pvp so you'd easily be grounded.
PvPing with a brute is like trying to pvp with a tank except you have a lower base damage modifier and you can be taken down easily, and let's not forget how poorly /EA does in PvP.
And I don't see how being able to speedcap hover would help fix the many holes that already exist in /EA. How would that bring it up to par with SR or Ninjitsu?
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but the fact that defense is screwed in PvP villainside and the distinctiveness of my set, the stealth, and endurance drain, are both totally useless, has made PvP the only milestone that I just cannot cross.
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This has more to do with the inherent grotesquely unbalanced nature of PvP in this game. No gimmick added to any one set or AT solves anything while the entirety of the system is broken. Attempts to apply fixes like this simply do not get to the root of the problem.
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I will give you that my idea may be completely unbalanced. I really have not thought about it enough to know.
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the stealth mechanic itself has been a problem for the devs. I don't actually think it's even feasible for them to create a power than only supresses to a single target like your suggestion. Any suppression in the code right now suppresses for you against everything out there.
Moreover, giving one person the ability to attack with impunity against a single target without that target's allies able to assist him unless they are nearly at the perception cap doesn't seem very balanced at all. Stalkers don't even get to do that and they are the masters of stealth.
Any reasoning provided to show why EA specifically needs this extra ability in PvP will, I believe, tend towards the general imbalances that PVP has and not any specific EA imbalance.
In terms of PvP, I'm inclined to take your PvE EA stance. EA is fine in PvP insomuch as PvP itself is unbalanced. Until the inherent imbalances are removed, we can't even begin to address individual sets and their performance on adequate terms.
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EA is a set built to make a brute that is an invisible energizer bunny of death. The concept of the EA brute is completely unlike any other brute.
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This is where, of course, you disagree with nearly everyone else. I will agree that the EA concept is different from the other Brutes, but I will not agree that it is so different that its proven lack of competitive mitigation is justified. Even in other ATs where there exists a set with a much different concept from the others, their performance isn't so clearly inferior to the other sets. A good example of what I mean is Dark Melee.
DM gives up nearly all its AoE damage, something that is a big deal for a set that is primarily supposed to do damage. But it gains boatloads of utility for that sacrifice. Recent buffs to other melee sets (and changes to core DM powers) may yet warrant a slight buff to DM's ST ability, but prior to these changes, DM's mix of ST damage and powerful heals, debuffs and buffs made it extremely competitive with all the other melee damage sets.
The tradeoffs that DM makes are paid back to it, in spades, with other strengths.
EA's tradeoffs, so far, are not paid back in the same way. It gives up too much for the tricks it does have. Hell, it gives up even more than its brother set, Elec, and gets even less back in return.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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But what I have noticed is that in my 2 years of playing my EA brute and respecing into three radically different build concepts is that at no point is the EA set really underpowered or unbalanced in PvE. My final build actually took the LRSF by storm, in fact.
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I'll give my opinion about the issues of EA, and at the same time explain the suggestions that we made.
1. There are several abilities that are thematic to energy aura but not included in the set. For example, energy defense can be self soft-capped, energy protection can give resistance against end drain and -recovery. Most of these things are really minor, but improve QoL and no good reason not to put them in. Please see section B in the first post for a more detailed list.
2. The secondary powerset of brute can be something like super reflex, which is a one-trick pony with well-rounded protection, or something like dark armor and fire armor, which are multi-faceted but have certain weakness. Energy aura is nearly a one-trick pony in terms of survivability but with several weakness in the defense. There is nothing wrong with having weakness, but other sets have tricks to help out with difficult situations.
That's why there are suggestions to increase the defense and patch the holes of EA, such that it can be more like super reflex. Or people suggest to add tricks like debuff aura or heals while keeping the defense holes to make EA a better multi-faceted set.
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Well seeing as you guys will never figure out that the devs are not going to fix EA because EA is not broken, I guess I will chime in with a dream modification.
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I believe most of us who post in this thread can solo relentless missions, routinely defeat EB and even AV. So, we're not really under-performing. The design of powersets in this game is pretty well done, no powersets are really broken. In the forum, gimpy, under-performing and broken are usually used loosely, and referring to comparison with other power sets.
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I have to agree with FromBelow. I think the game needs to be shaken up a bit, especially in the PvP realm. /EA would be a good place to start. It doesn't have to be with the stealth idea but something original/different, that would be effective in PvP, would be a nice boost to this game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think gimicks are the way to bring melee in to high end team pvp, especially if it only works for one powerset.
Sure, the current situation needs to change, but doing so will probably have to be done by a long series of careful rebalances of buff stacking, pool powers, mobility, of the debuffs available to melees, and possibly of arena environments as well.
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Booooooring. There is nothing wrong with adding a few "gimicks" to the game. Especially if said gimicks improve an underperforming PvP set without overpowering that set in PvE.
Brutes are one of the most popular ATs played. I believe they are the most common Villain side AT. Why, because they are fun and easy to play. It's that simple. People like PvE with Brutes and, generally speaking, would like Brutes to perform better in PvP. I don't think the Brute community, or the lolmelee community, is asking to dominate the PvP world, they would just like to more of a factor.
This statement isn't wrong by any means...
"Sure, the current situation needs to change, but doing so will probably have to be done by a long series of careful rebalances of buff stacking, pool powers, mobility, of the debuffs available to melees, and possibly of arena environments as well."
...but it doesn't mean you have to exclude "gimicks."
Personally I think that Taunt will be changed to give melee ATs a more level playing ground in PvP. In the meantime it would be nice to see underperforming sets, like EA, get a boost and perhaps a "gimick" like change to add some spice to it.
Oh, and as to the comments about why I'd want to PvP with a Brute, and why would I want to use Flight... BECAUSE WE CAN"T NOW AND WE SHOULD!!!
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Booooooring. There is nothing wrong with adding a few "gimicks" to the game. Especially if said gimicks improve an underperforming PvP set without overpowering that set in PvE.
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You know, there's a difference between the hard way and the easy way...
The hard way has a much better chance of working.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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Booooooring. There is nothing wrong with adding a few "gimicks" to the game. Especially if said gimicks improve an underperforming PvP set without overpowering that set in PvE.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, there's a difference between the hard way and the easy way...
The hard way has a much better chance of working.
[/ QUOTE ]
Variety is the spice of life 
Look, I'm not saying you are wrong Spiritchaser. I'd be happy with any beneficial change to /EA. It is a cool looking set plus I like that it is a Defense based set with Energy Drain. Small, well thought out buffs would be great. I just happen to think a large original change to replace one of the less used powers would be more fun, and potentially just as balancing.
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Oh, and as to the comments about why I'd want to PvP with a Brute, and why would I want to use Flight... BECAUSE WE CAN"T NOW AND WE SHOULD!!!
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Go ahead, use Flight. See how many kills you get by "swooping down"
lol
I cant use any of my aoe's why flying with the stone primary... kinda sucks.
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Oh, and as to the comments about why I'd want to PvP with a Brute, and why would I want to use Flight... BECAUSE WE CAN"T NOW AND WE SHOULD!!!
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Go ahead, use Flight. See how many kills you get by "swooping down"
lol
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I don't use flight in PvP. What I said was that IF you could cap the speed of HOVER then it could be used in PvP.
Hover/Flight is slow and useless in pvp.
wow
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Capped Hover/Flight is slow and useless in pvp.
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fix't.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Capped Hover/Flight is slow and useless in pvp.
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fix't.
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I'll disagree.
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For example, kinetic shield may have -speed, -movement resistance, because kinetic is related to movement. Power shield and energy protection can have energy drain protection added(or even detention resistance), because this can be implied from the name of the power.
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Huh.........I NEVER thought about that. What a GREAT idea.
I like it
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It doen't create stacking issues, it makes tons of sense thematically and it's pretty easy to balance.
Love it!
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲