The Complete Amazon: Themed WP/SS Tanker Guide I11


BladeThorn

 

Posted

Caution: minor roleplaying ahead

THE COMPLETE AMAZON

A themed guide for Willpower/Super Strength tankers

Amazons have had a presence in Paragon City since at least 47 BC, the fateful year in which Julia Victrix, First Consul, led her legions across the Red River, and issued that fateful command:

---- Vadite. Venamini. Trucidate calvarias!

This brief introduction seeks to instruct the tiro in the physical disciplines and military arts judged most fitting to the traditions and lore of the Amazons.

I. Considerationes primæ de originibus artibusque

Of the several labels given by the Paragonians as sources of our abilities, three explanations are most frequently used. First, that our strength is simply a gift of Nature. Second, that since they know not our gods (nor their own, it seems), our gifts are sorcerous in nature. Third, that we represent mutants, violations of the natural order.

In truth, we are what they would call "technological", since the holy Axe, a sword, or a mace, is all the technology anyone should require. But do not tell them this, else their authorities will assign us the tiresome task of picking up after their broken robots. You may pick whichever you choose.

As to which disciplines are best suited to the cultivation of our way of life among the Paragonians, we have come to recommend especially those that require nothing but the cultivation of the body and mind: for it is in this wise that the barbarian male is chiefly deficient; as again, Julia Victrix observed at the first encounter with the lesser sex - "Utrum nescis an nequis?" Indeed, as it was said of old, "viri molles, et vim carent."

II. De potestatum selectione et ordine

The arts of the cultivation of mind and body are called among the barbarians "Willpower" and "Super Strength". The average Paragonian, as you will learn, has little use for either, especially among the males, who likely as not are drug addicts who crowd together in deserted areas to seem more fearsome than they are. The women are, as expected, made of somewhat more solid stuff - some show commendable tenacity in seeking to retain their property which the men seek to pry from their hands - but few have had the training to achieve their true potential. Throughout your sojourn there, you will find people, men and even women, who are said to be physicians or hold high offices of state, but who will require your rescue, and when rescued will get lost trying to find their way around a box or pipe. Truly these people need instruction from a superior culture.

These disciplines must be selected, and then practiced; a process that is called "power selection" and (mysteriously) "slotting". Of the various disciplines that fall under this rubric, we will consider the ones we consider most worthy of taking; and the ways they should be improved.

Some tradesmen offer exotic versions of these enhancements, which are said to increase their power by using several of the same kind. These things are available chiefly to those who have access to ancient treasure, or to those upon whom lady Fortuna smiles. Neither of these blessings is assumed by this treatise, which confines itself to those which can be learned in their schools and bought at their crafting tables.

== Level I==

High Pain Tolerance

Priority: High
Recommended slots: 6
Practice: Healing (first) x3, Damage Resistance (second) x3

An Amazon learns to tolerate pain. This ability will, when taken, make you substantially harder to kill, and gives good, if not excellent, ability to endure physical attack.

Jab

Priority: Inescapable, but low
Recommended slots: 3 to 6
Practice: Endurance reduction (x1), Accuracy (x2), Damage (1-3)

You cannot avoid taking this attack, a "super strength" attack that does little more damage than a punch from someone who makes no such grand claims to strength.

== Level II==

Fast Healing

Priority: Highest
Recommended slots: 3
Practice: Healing x3

By this art, you will recover your health much faster than normal. Only one sort of improvement is possible

== Level IV==

Haymaker

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: 6
Practice: Endurance reduction (x1), Accuracy (x2), Damage (1-3) or Recharge (1)

The first attack worthy of the name "super strength", this does high damage to a single target.

== Level VI==

Indomitable Will

Priority: Low
Recommended slots: 4-5
Practice: Endurance reduction (1-2); Defense Buff (3, at your leisure)

This power needs to be taken immediately. Slot it for endurance reduction first: for this will be the power you turn on when rising. It protects you against those who would control your mind or body through fear or restraint.

You may eventually want to add slots to this; those slots will help you avoid direct attacks aimed at your mind. But adding these slots is not a priority, and can be postponed until late in the game, when they are plentiful. Adding slots will not improve the strength of its other abilities.

== Level VIII==

Rise to the Challenge

Priority: Highest
Recommended slots: 4-6
Practice: Endurance (1-2), Healing (3); optionally Taunt (1)

By this art, you will recover your health quickly; and the challenge represented by a number of enemies will make this ability even stronger. You may wish to defy them by adding Taunt, making this stance even more provocative to them. A vital and necessary ability.

== Level X==

Hasten

Priority: High
Recommended slots: 3
Practice: Recharge x3

The legends say, an Amazon is swift of foot and swift of mind. This is the first ability outside the defining ones of Willpower and Super Strength. At this point, your defenses will be quite strong compared to the foes you will face, but you have not learned many of the attacks you will wield. Hasten allows us to fight faster and harder, and thus to defeat the foes more quickly. There is a small penalty of exhaustion when it wears off.

== Level XII==

Quick Recovery

Priority: Highest - 3 slots immediately
Recommended slots: 3
Practice: Endurance Modification x3

Take this power immediately when it becomes available. The discipline of an Amazon, our ability to continue fighting long after the mere males are exhausted, is definitive.

== Level XIV==

Super Speed

Priority: Low
Recommended slots: Default
Practice: Running Speed

The ability to run swiftly was attributed to the Amazons of old - Atalanta, Camilla, and Penthesilea all possessed such powers.

Know, however, that other such abilities exist, that have the advantage of being able to move into the skies as well as across the earth. You may obtain several temporary abilities using devices as rewards for guarding property in Paragon City. These should be tended carefully and used only when needed, and turned off immediately when no longer needed. You eventually will fly. But not yet.

== Level XVI==

Air Superiority

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: 6
Practice: Endurance reduction (x1), Accuracy (x2), Damage (1-3)

This attack prepares us for flight. It is worthy in its own right, and knocks men onto the most used but least useful part of their bodies.

== Level XVIII==

Heightened Senses

Priority: Medium to high
Recommended slots: 4-5
Practice: Endurance reduction (1-2), Defense Buff (3)

An Amazon is aware of her environment. This ability enables us to guard against the foul magics and sciences of the enemy, and offers some ability to perceive those who would come against us by stealth.

== Level XX==

Mind over Body

Priority: High
Recommended slots: 4-5
Practice: Endurance reduction (1-2), Damage Resistance (3)

By this art, we can add greatly to our ability to resist direct physical attacks. It is somewhat tiring to maintain the stance, though, so it can be dismissed when not needed.

== Level XXII==

Knockout Blow

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: 6
Practice: Endurance reduction (x1), Accuracy (x2), Damage (1-3)

Perhaps the first attack that shows our full potential. Take it, improve it, and use it liberally.

== Level XXIV==

Taunt

Priority: Low
Recommended slots: Default
Practice: Taunt

An Amazon lives to guard the weak. Taunt allows us to do this, by commanding and diverting the attention of the enemies. We deserve all of the attention in any case.

== Level XXVI==

Swift

Priority: Low
Recommended slots: 1-2
Practice: Running Speed (1-2)

An Amazon leads. By this discipline, you will be able to slightly outstep your cohort and ensure that you and not they are the ones that lead the charge into battle.

By this art, you may begin to cultivate your physical well being and endurance even more.

== Level XXVIII==

Rage

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: 3-4
Practice: Recharge (3), To Hit Buff (optional, 1)

Rage is a dangerous tool. We lose our composure at our hazard. Yet, when unleashed, an Amazon's rage is a fearsome wonder to behold. Take care, though, that when your rage is ended, you may withdraw; for you will need time to recover.

An Amazon whose job is chiefly to defend weaker members of her cohort should avoid unleashing her rage prematurely. You do not need to put yourself in a position where you have been disabled by its aftereffects, and use it only when final victory is within reach, or to tilt overwhelming odds in your favour.

== Level XXX==

Health

Priority: High
Recommended slots: 3
Practice: Healing x3

By this stage of your sojourn among the Paragonians, you will have noticed that many of them live in filth, the unfortunate debris of their incomprehensible industries. Your goal is to rise above them.

== Level XXXII==

Strength of Will

Priority: Highest
Recommended slots: 3
Practice: Damage Resistance x3

By heroic efforts, you can endow yourself with armor almost as mighty as Minerva's aegis, for a short time. This power should be used with some caution, in that its use is exhausting, and its return is governed by divine laws that cannot be hastened by any mortal artifice.

At this stage, your journey nears completion. The remaining abilities can be selected mostly in any order desired, depending on what seems most pressing.


== Level XXXV==

Stamina

Priority: High
Recommended slots: 3
Practice: Endurance Modification x3

One of the two chief qualities men lack.

== Level XXVIII==

Foot Stomp

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: 6
Practice: Endurance reduction (x1), Accuracy (x2), Damage (1-3)

We strike the earth and make it tremble. Useful for getting the enemy's attention.

== Level XLI==

Boxing

Priority: Lowest
Recommended slots: 1-2
Practice: Accuracy x2

A feeble attack, needed for a valuable ability.


== Level XLIV==

Tough

Priority: Low
Recommended slots: 3-5
Practice: Endurance Reduction (x2), Damage Resistance (1-3)

This discipline, perhaps one of the more useful discoveries made by the males, will markedly improve your ability to resist physical attack. The only point of Boxing is to enable this ability.

== Level XLVII==

Fly

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: Default
Practice: Fly

Sisterhood with the air enables us to overcome vertical obstacles, after the devices we have been rewarded with have been exhausted.

== Level XLIX==

Char

Priority: Medium
Recommended slots: 3-4
Practice: Accuracy (x2), Hold Duration, Recharge

The ability to rope and hold men helpless is a defining Amazon ability. This one enables you to keep an enemy helpless at range.

=== Reliquiæ===

The following powers of the primary and secondary are available, but not taken in the proposed build. You may substitute them if desired:

i. Primary:

Resurgence

The ability to resurrect yourself, it provides a brief power boost when resurrected, followed by a period of debility. Prepare, instead, not to die, and if you must, face it bravely.

ii. Secondary

Punch

Depending on perspective, this is either a slower but more powerful version of Jab, or a weaker but faster version of Haymaker. Since you must take Jab, and can take Haymaker by the time it becomes practical to take this, there is no reason to prefer the weak to the strong.

Handclap

An attack which does no damage, but can scatter your foes and disorient them briefly. Useful at times, but largely redundant to Foot Stomp.

Hurl

You rip a chunk of earth or masonry from your feet and toss it at an enemy, seeking to bring them to earth.

Most unseemly. And since you will eventually take to the air and fly, and there you can knock down the flyer directly, somewhat unnecessary.


=== Sample build ===

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Amazon: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(3), Heal-I:40(15), ResDam-I:40(17), ResDam-I:40(17), ResDam-I:40(27)
Level 1: Jab -- Acc-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(5), Acc-I:40(42), Dmg-I:40(42), Dmg-I:40(42), Dmg-I:40(43)
Level 2: Fast Healing -- Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(3), Heal-I:40(7)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Acc-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(5), Acc-I:40(7), Dmg-I:40(37), Dmg-I:40(37), Dmg-I:40(40)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I:40(A), DefBuff-I:40(46), DefBuff-I:40(46), DefBuff-I:40(48)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- EndRdx-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(9), Heal-I:40(9), Heal-I:40(15), EndRdx-I:40(43)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(11), RechRdx-I:40(11)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I:40(A), EndMod-I:40(13), EndMod-I:40(13)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I:40(A)
Level 16: Air Superiority -- Acc-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(31), Acc-I:40(33), Dmg-I:40(34), Dmg-I:40(36), Dmg-I:40(37)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- EndRdx-I:40(A), DefBuff-I:40(19), DefBuff-I:40(19), DefBuff-I:40(27), EndRdx-I:40(48)
Level 20: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx-I:40(A), ResDam-I:40(21), ResDam-I:40(21), ResDam-I:40(25), EndRdx-I:40(43)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(23), Acc-I:40(23), Dmg-I:40(25), Dmg-I:40(34), Dmg-I:40(34)
Level 24: Taunt -- Taunt-I:40(A)
Level 26: Swift -- Run-I:40(A), Flight-I:40(48)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(29), RechRdx-I:40(29)
Level 30: Health -- Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(31), Heal-I:40(31)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I:40(A), ResDam-I:40(33), ResDam-I:40(33)
Level 35: Stamina -- EndMod-I:40(A), EndMod-I:40(36), EndMod-I:40(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(39), Acc-I:40(39), Dmg-I:40(39), Dmg-I:40(40), Dmg-I:40(40)
Level 41: Boxing -- Acc-I:40(A), Acc-I:40(50)
Level 44: Tough -- EndRdx-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(45), ResDam-I:40(45), ResDam-I:40(45), ResDam-I:40(46)
Level 47: Fly -- Flight-I:40(A)
Level 49: Char -- Acc-I:40(A), Acc-I:40(50), Hold-I:40(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:40(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:40(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:40(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MHDz;3169;693;924;|
&gt;-KE5LV*VS`0O@?R#OL"*1Y)MF7VM"5=TL.6DBSMV23*#W7LX#BT 6X2&gt;O9)L2][U".)S24C&amp;G\::;WX
THY6HJV7&gt;Y#]$?3U5Y2-\8O/9TSG_6Y7R6][&lt;ZKR0KWGY2]3SV&lt;]345RJWZ*6F]M%U`^;IA;EH3G*K^
51:+&amp;1FXL0._E&lt;G`['1CZ?FE)&lt;K_I?/YW*@_S^5HN'E_S:B/IM/@,9=9]8JI7("T4431135-%,HV.,(
!@PJ=;BNLS/&amp;F;,P&lt;D4F"3:WJ(G!"VEI^U6*Y$AHR_E;KW[8^S3'F5C1092+&lt;\'@V63,=(R@8X'P9V^
,S@#MZA^B6!NT7O=2L9LZ;U8YKV*+1G&lt;JJ:W%/O/M_W&gt;P)$C,Q5/O3DC,N,.8BY%0L;OQ`#?4N&lt;/^I!
G7=!UQ6V/K2)SBAD.0Q3$?5VT8226P$NU,P2(4P0&ltB'850B8K)AGM;Z 5QGCLM.A`*];!!*R0]`H6$1
HA-4&gt;0&amp;J$(%J/UY2-ALIL$LJL7T&gt;H`/@W7S0'-]*#((+/'-&lt;`CPWM.-`D.EIO+#`&amp;;%R0S!-"7"4%4D
&lt;P8VW=E:U`FQ)2^&gt;5:O^:ULC"]^/^HC1V+;$&amp;!&lt;='I%M8/$D(X_AMT:2?6+2&gt;B$Z54&lt;YT$&lt;'*W,'C"L
I^JE,4@C''1^4O/#6ZJCY%+`81*"_;9,\Z2!5D`9#L&lt;AV`\+$UB.3HL4/^0&lt;4&gt;5(B7!T.`0'AB'#(CO
'`!FT2&amp;MA@U'#J*V.P-$)##[\/C$1'L22F?YDVRI6S8,)S;A,VWDQ\HFC?JI55=@&lt;IA^=[^\.YA&gt;YQ[
S303O^0,&lt;PL@&lt;9'4OO]TK;APY9#+[_&amp;VBBH&gt;.S\]T%BGEA,[99.!F'@1G!ASCT8&gt;S3Q*O-CK]D99Q
T/?`X"FQA2UBBGW8N9$'GD1O$B\2+WH-^.Q%_V^//$BZ\3Y[!_%Q"&lt;+
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
</pre><hr />



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

I really enjoyed the voice in which you wrote this guide. Well done. The Latin is a nice touch as well.

Magnus Melior Celeris Amplius


This post brought to you by the Thunderfire Campaign to Out-Weird the Internet.
Score so far: Thunderfire-0, Internet-157893678

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Wait until 20 to get your main resist? Wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? As WP it's not nearly as important since by lvl 20 you SHOULD have Fast Healing, and Rise to the Challenge (and possibly Health too), as well as High Pain Tolerance which gives some decent resists on its own as an auto power. That's alot of regen for fighting even mobs or +1's.

Welcome to the life of a Regen based set compared to a Resist or Defense set.


 

Posted

Nice guide.


 

Posted

I've put off taking MoB to even later than that on some of my WP characters. I would definitely advise you to not take it immediately (it is available at level 1) and to postpone it until at least after Quick Recovery is in place. You don't need to be running many toggles until you get SO's or equivalents in your endurance recovery power.

In fact, if you have someone who is willing to powerlevel your new tanker to level 21 or so, for pure fun I'd take powers in the Traditional Order for other sets: with Swift - 10, Health - 16, Stamina - 20, and postpone the stuff that the guide says. You wouldn't be quite as tough by level 22, but you'd have a character that would be a lot of fun to play and that can only improve after that. I'm a strong believer in never running out of endurance, and never having to think about it: and this is part of the theme.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

I love the way you've written this.
I dont have any plans for a WP?SS build in the near future, but couldnt put this down.


 

Posted

Great guide on several levels. I am normally not a fan of RP but this one is a good read becuase it gets to the point. Also the stragetic build information is useful as well.


High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!

 

Posted

The whole themed amazon thing was cute for about 10 seconds, then I just wanted a simply typed guide. Moving on.

If your planning on getting Tough and or Weave you don't need Heightened Senses. As you will be capped defense wise. Instead of Air superiority I would have people take Combat Jumping since the numbers are the same as Heightened Senses(smash and lethal). Plus a 3% defense towards fire cold and energy is not really noticed. "You show me environmental damage, and I'll show you how to beat Recluse in 3 seconds ." As for the perception bonus, It hasn't stopped me from running two tanks to 50 without perception. Again I would advise against HS if your getting tough and or weave.

I agree with Jayboh, waiting so long for MoB? PLed much?. Seriously every person who plays a tank knows to take the first shield. Especially if your going to fight all the way to lvl 20. Again I would advise getting Mind over Body IMMEDIATELY if your planning on actually playing the tank. I run IW and MoB on my renewed WP tank at lvl 10 and I'm having no end problems. A good tank learns to control his attack patterns.

You also took Taunt at 24?...either this is your first Tank or you just felt like it would be better needed at that level. Regardless im glad you at the very least took it. I would advise those making a WP tank to TAKE TAUNT AT LVL 10. If you feel like scrapping play a scrapper enough said.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
If your planning on getting Tough and or Weave you don't need Heightened Senses. As you will be capped defense wise. Instead of Air superiority I would have people take Combat Jumping since the numbers are the same as Heightened Senses(smash and lethal). Plus a 3% defense towards fire cold and energy is not really noticed. "You show me environmental damage, and I'll show you how to beat Recluse in 3 seconds ." As for the perception bonus, It hasn't stopped me from running two tanks to 50 without perception. Again I would advise against HS if your getting tough and or weave.


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't Heightened Senses Willpower's main protection against Fire/Cold and Energy/Negative? It offers a tiny bonus vs S/L, yes, but 13% base Defence (20% slotted) to these damage types. That stacks really nicely with Weave's 5%.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The whole themed amazon thing was cute for about 10 seconds, then I just wanted a simply typed guide. Moving on.


[/ QUOTE ]

Your whole imbecile-poster routine was cute for .01 seconds, until I realized your post wasn't even redeeming for the LWLness of reading your response. Please, see below for why I heckle you for heckling the OP.

[ QUOTE ]
If your planning on getting Tough and or Weave you don't need Heightened Senses. As you will be capped defense wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTH are you talking about? Do you even comprehend what you are babbling about?
You don’t take HS for the +Def to S/L, you take HS because it is your major protection vs. Fire/Cold/NRG/NegNRG. About 21% when 3-slotted with IOs.

The +5% slotted for S/L Defense is nice, but secondary.

And there is no way you are going to ‘cap’ defense with just Weave/CJ. You can’t even get to the soft-cap with HS/Weave/CJ.

CJ 3.75% 3-slotted
HS 21% 3-slotted
Weave 7.5% 3-slotted
Global Defense IO 3%
35.25% Total Defense vs. Fire/Cold/NRG/NegNRG
19% Total Defense vs. Smash/Lethal

If you have the gumption to post a comment on someone’s guide and call them to task, at least have the proper sense to be accurate with your numbers.

[ QUOTE ]

Instead of Air superiority I would have people take Combat Jumping since the numbers are the same as Heightened Senses(smash and lethal). Plus a 3% defense towards fire cold and energy is not really noticed. You show me environmental damage, and I'll show you how to beat Recluse in 3 seconds ."


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, dummy. You don’t take HS for the S/L. Read the description of the power, at the very least. Or better yet, examine your numbers in-game from the Power Monitoring tab. This is assuming you actually have a WP tank/scrapper/brute, because I’m wondering if you do.

Combat Jumping’s negligible Defense boost is easily replaced by the mitigation provided by keeping an annoying Lt. or Boss flat on their back with AS. If they cannot attack you, they cannot damage you. That’s the concept, btw. I hear it also works remarkably with Foot Stomp, Fault, Earthquake, and Force Bolt.

Personally, I’d take both AS and CJ in my build, but between the two AS is the winner. Because I can keep the boss flat on his a$$ and use his minions to power my RTTC.

[ QUOTE ]

As for the perception bonus, It hasn't stopped me from running two tanks to 50 without perception. Again I would advise against HS if your getting tough and or weave.

[/ QUOTE ]

I’d advise you to avoid giving advice. Your advice is the kind that is not only erroneous, but so ineffectual and misguided that it leads straight to a respec for any unwitting newb who may take it to heart.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Jayboh, waiting so long for MoB? PLed much?.

[/ QUOTE ]

More insults to the OP? From reading Heraculea’s posts I’d be more inclined to believe she actually plays tanks, based on her facts, numbers, and advice. Based on yours, I’d believe YOU were the one who was PL’d. There are valid reasons for postponing both Taunt and MoB.

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously every person who plays a tank knows to take the first shield. Especially if your going to fight all the way to lvl 20. Again I would advise getting Mind over Body IMMEDIATELY if your planning on actually playing the tank. I run IW and MoB on my renewed WP tank at lvl 10 and I'm having no end problems. A good tank learns to control his attack patterns.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, a good tank knows what his powers do in the first place, which you obviously do not.

Second, with High Pain Threshold and Fast Healing, you can get along just fine without taking MoB as a toggle-drain, pre-SO. Many other tank primaries do NOT offer that type of padding vs. damage, which is why they take the first shield. Add in RTTC and you have a good low-level defense vs. damage w/o having to worry about another toggle early on.

As someone who ‘has taken two tanks to 50’, OMG, you probably realize that until SOs and proper slotting, Tanks are pretty squishy. You also probably realize from your vast repertoire of experience that trying to Tank pre-22 that you are NOT capable of the same feats you will be able to do by your 30s. Go ahead and leap into a 6-person spawn at 18, tell me how you fare, compared to doing the same at level 35.

And since you are a master of wisdom and gameplay, you likely are aware that the amount of time it will take to get to level 22 is about 10% of the time it will take to get from 23 to 50. Thus, the lack of Taunt and FULL TANKING POWAH is both brief and entirely minimal, especially if you plan on soloing at any point in that time 1-22.

[ QUOTE ]
You also took Taunt at 24?...either this is your first Tank or you just felt like it would be better needed at that level. Regardless im glad you at the very least took it. I would advise those making a WP tank to TAKE TAUNT AT LVL 10. If you feel like scrapping play a scrapper enough said.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you need Taunt at level 10? Are you teaming for large groups? Or small groups? Do you honestly feel you are going to taunt a 5-8 person spawn and survive before you have slots and SOs at level 12? Are you unable to rely on gauntlet and proper grouping technique to get through the teens?

Your post as ‘n00b’ written all of it. It is not only factually wrong, but full of condescending advice that I would actually caution against.

Go write your own guide, Mr. ‘I have two tanks at 50’. Let’s see how well you can stand against some criticism. My only reservations about encouraging you to do so, however, is that you might pass on your ill-advised builds to some unsuspecting person.
]


53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.

 

Posted

And your little online tirade made me bored all of the 10 seconds I spent reading it. Look if your going to have an angry comment why not send me message?, guess you got someone to impress, moving on.

Why bother typing up a build I can show you how I taunt at level 10. Just send me an email on the Guardian server (preferably Marcus Falcon). Again I offer anyone to send me an email in RL (kareiyasu@aol.com) if they wish to discuss or need certain builds showed to them. By that I mean I can back up everything I suggest.

Furthermore I take it you've been PL'ed too much;"you likely are aware that the amount of time it will take to get to level 22 is about 10% of the time it will take to get from 23 to 50". Really? you must not play much. Bad comparison if you want to call me a noob but hey theres always someone

And hey go play a tank, get on a team, at early levels of course, and watch how Gauntlet is still broken. Again if you don't believe me I can always show you. I thought we where passed calling people noobs, guess you just needed to respond huh?, these boards only show me more and more everyday how many kids play this game. Finally if you don't believe anything I post just send me a message and or email, I will gladly take some time out of my day and show you how to play a tank. That is all.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

All that blathering, and still not one response about your factual errors regarding one of your basic defense powers.

You are a noob if you think Heigtened Senses is not worth taking based on its S/L Defense values. You do not even acknowledge (in fact, you seem oblivious to) the fact that Heightened Senses is mainly for F/C/E/N protection. Thus, I laugh at you.

You also made claim that you can cap your defense to S/L with Tough / Weave. Do you have any numbers to back that up? I provided numbers from City of Data. What do you have to back up your assertions?

The fact you did not even respond to those errors on yourpart, for which I was able to provide factual substance, but chose to focus on your tanking, complaint about gauntlet, my assumption for leveling time, everything else under the sun, etc, is an indication that you know you are wrong, factually, about Heigntened Senses, and you just cant' refute what I called you out on.

Nice try at obfuscation. But unless you can somehow defend your statements about Heightened Senses with data (which you can't), you are indeed self-labeling yourself, nublet.


53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.

 

Posted

Both of you need to chill...take the flame war to PMs...

I like the flare of creativity in writing this build and it's rather good. This being said, I think the power choices are a bit off to consider this as a WP/SS guide seeing as how it's a bit limiting to incorporate the powers that another would rather have instead of Fly, Super Speed, etc etc. This is more like a "Look at my build" sort of thing. No offense...

I believe RttC does a good job as a tank aura so that justifies the 'getting taunt at 24!? omgwtf' [My Ice/SS tank relies on Chilling Embrace and it'll be doubtful that taunt will make itself into the build] Kinda weirded out at someone not getting Mind Over Body early, the res is a nice stack on top of High Pain Tolerance. Totally biased but I absolutely HATE Fly and pretty much any prerequisite before it...would rather take CJ and SJ or even Aid Self [Always on PvP mode ] Your ability to stick with just Super Speed until 47 literally amazes me...I don't know how you can put up with linear traveling I would drop Char myself and spend it on Conserve Power to be an end god [Kins and Stormies are the death of me]

Great PvE build overall and sorry if I critique too much leaning towards PvP...it's the only thing I frequently do.


 

Posted

Again im not starting anything, the guy calling people nublet on an online board is the bored guy behind the monitor trying to get "online points". Heightened Senses is not needed. I can show you if you want?. Again I invite you to one of my teams and watch me pull it off. point blank.'

And honestly lets move this along kid either you want actual game proof or your just going to keep typing away?. I gave you my email and global. All up to you now.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

Except for Shadow Shard and Terra Volta (and, well, the old Faultline), SS is a pretty decent travel power blue side, Fang. It is much more horrid on red side, however, and I'd be reluctant to use SS only as a villain, but as a hero, it is very easy to take a character to 47 with just SS.

With the GvE jet pack, or any of the level Raptor or Zero-G packs (some of which are now repeatable via Ouroboros), you can easily surmount any Z-axis annoyances without flight.

Personally, I'm biased on taking the ST holds - for putting away annoying Sappers and the like. Between QR and Stamina, END probably isn't an issue.


53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Again im not starting anything, the guy calling people nublet on an online board is the bored guy behind the monitor trying to get "online points". Heightened Senses is not needed. I can show you if you want?. Again I invite you to one of my teams and watch me pull it off. point blank.'


[/ QUOTE ]

So, you still didn't answer me? Just 'come and watch'?

To be honest, no power is actually NEEDED. There are plenty of no-travel power builds, petless masterminds, stamina-less builds, and the like. So, you may not actually NEED Heightened Senses.

But I ask you - why would you NOT want an extra 21% Defense versus 4 defense types? Why would you forgo that? Why suggest that Tough / Weave can cover that hole? There are plenty of villain groups who rely on non-physical damage, or use a mix of non-physical/physical damage, to which your extra Defense from HS will make a huge difference. Rikti, Arachnos, CoTs and Nemesis to name a few.

Sure, you dont' NEED Heightened Senses at all. But then again, you don't NEED Stamina, travel powers, attacks, Taunt, or the like, either. But it sure as hell makes keeping on your feet and staying alive easier.

[ QUOTE ]

And honestly lets move this along kid either you want actual game proof or your just going to keep typing away?. I gave you my email and global. All up to you now.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I'm just not interested in watching you. I've seen all sorts of clowns level up with surprising holes in their power selections, including no mez-resistant toggles in scrappers, no debuffs in defenders, etc. I don't need to go to Guardian, is it, to witness more buffoonery.

If you want to get the last word in, be my guest. I think I've said enough that any sane person who read your comment about 'capping defense with Tough/Weave', and not taking HS due to its poor S/L defense, will have some ammunition to defuse your misguided advice. No matter how awesomesauce you profess to be.


53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, no power is actually NEEDED. There are plenty of no-travel power builds, petless masterminds, stamina-less builds, and the like. So, you may not actually NEED Heightened Senses.

[/ QUOTE ]

All that and you actually agree with me. So where you looking for an online debate?. I see now certain people on here just type to start an argument just for fun. Because I have invited you to see me perform without HS and again you evade the situation with name calling and child like behavior. I don't blame you for not wanting to come see me perform, I wouldn't want a nice helping of humble pie to start my day, so rather than that you would rather argue ahh kids these days.


Oh and btw HS on a level 50 toon: Smashing and lethal; 3.90%
Fire/energy /cold/Negative defense: 15.36%. You let me know when your fighting anything with primary cold dmg atleast 10% of the time in game. Negative dmg is known to be amongst CoT's(especially in the Hollows) but we get passed that thanks to police scanner missions. Fire dmg is found in Sky raiders, certain Cot bosses(Blords) , and Energy is rarely found so much so that invul tanks get resist Energies passed lvl 30. The smashing and Lethal defesne from HS is so small that your own regeneration due to the other powers(FS,Rttc,HpT, etc) will mitigate lost life points.

Finally, you call people achieving a certain way to play a GAME "buffoonery" , when I give credit to anyone who can find ways to play without having to get powers that everyone is headstrong to get ALL the time. It may not be how you play, but if it achieves the same objective, who's to say its wrong, stupid, or "buffoonery"?.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
and Energy is rarely found so much so that invul tanks get resist Energies passed lvl 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's plenty of Energy damage around. Off the top of my head

Freakshow - all their Electrical attacks are Energy
Rikti (and Lost) - Energy attacks from their guns. The blades do dual Lethal/Energy damage, so Energy Defence counts against them.
Tsoo Ink Men - use Energy melee.
Arachnos - use energy blasts from maces, armoured guys or spiders.
Cabal - electrical blasts.
Banished Pantheon - Storm Shaman's Lightning Storms
Carnie Attendants - electrified hoops do lethal/energy
Rularuu Eyeballs. Not that defence helps against them much..
Malta Sappers. Its nice when they dont hit you, isnt it?

Invulnerable tanks generally take Resist Energies late because its a very small bonus and not really a core power to the set. Invulnerability is weak vs Energy by design.

Willpower is given a good solid power to deal with the not-so-uncommon "exotic" damage types, and its bad advice to tell people to skip it.


 

Posted

Minor quibble.

The Amazon legend is Greek, not Roman.


"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill

 

Posted

Bad advice would be telling people they "NEED" it(HS), which of course they don't. Since Invul tanks are surviving quite fine.

As for the enemies dmg; yes their are groups that uses SOME energy based attacks, but are usually 90% smashing and lethal. And yes there are enemies that use energy all the time (Tsoo, Clockwork, Seige's minions, Dr Aeon. etc) but these are very selective and aren't found every where in the game. Even the clockwork go from energy to Psionics. As for the Storm Shaman they use two lightning attacks. Malta sappers are usually targetted first (on good teams) and can be one shot by a really good tank.

Rularu lol no one even talks about them anymore. They are purely optional to fight to begin with.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

I still think Invul needs some love. Several rounds with the nerf bat and no lovin'. The passives should be raised to 10% base with some sort of slow and/or end drain resistance
inherent in each (perhaps 20% of each for a total of 40% slow/enddrain resists for both passives at once). That, and the -DEF needs to go from the one toggle. I think that would put Invul on par with other performing sets, IMO.

But to the point, I did enjoy this guide, Greek or Roman origins notwithstanding I only wish you could get the Toga costume parts without having that particular character in a Valentine's event, mostly because this kind of background just demands the right costume props


53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.

 

Posted

WP gets recovery at lvl 12 so to put off toggles until much later isn't very smart for a tank... if you wanna play as a scrapper roll one


 

Posted

I guess all this arguing is fun for some people....but nice guide, not how I did my WP/SS tank, but it was an enjoyable read, and it's funny seeing the replies and arguments develope after.

Just my 2pence worth, Hightened Senses IS your F/C/N/En Def toggle, quite nice numbers to, and some minor S/L Def, nicely stacks with CJ, Weave and SF Prot +3% Def, but I also found It's +Perception invaluable in Arachnos fights, because combined with Rage it meant that it was acting like psuedo Focussed Accuracy....

Anyway, the thing I love about this game is the person who pays the sub's can play exactly as they want and build exactly how the want to......even if Amazons were Greek and not Roman


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
WP gets recovery at lvl 12 so to put off toggles until much later isn't very smart for a tank... if you wanna play as a scrapper roll one

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see: a sweeping generalization? Check. Stating the obvious? Check. A 5-month tenderfoot instructing a 48-month veteran to re-roll as another class? Check.

Yup, all there. Great makings of a lousy post. You do get a +1 post count though. I can't wait for your #5, should be chock full of great stuff.


53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.