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Just saying, I could care less. Been here longer than you, and I'll be here long after you're gone. One star me all you want.|
Originally Posted by Killface
Just sayin, threatening some of the most highly capable people on protector when it comes to doing endgame content with getting a bad rep and "one starring" them can have consequences. Unwarranted self-importance can work both ways.
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Drake is a good guy and he takes a lot of time to do things for the community. If you can't or won't respect that, then I am betting the community has no use for you. We've been down this path before. It has always ended badly for the jackwads. I'll bet it will this time as well.
Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
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Originally Posted by Captain Argon
The problem wasn't a lack of delegation, though. The raid leader was in the zone. The raid leader was preparing to call the shots, actually.
The problem is that people didn't want to wait until the scheduled start time of the raid. You can't fix impatience on the part of others through delegation. |
Like I said, I wasn't there and it heard from other sources.
Your perspective does put a different spin on things. Thanks for the clarification.
As a matter of fact, I'm slightly embarassed to see there are still people acting ignorantly like this on this server. I thought they'd all been weeded out through attrition.
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Originally Posted by Killface
Just sayin, threatening some of the most highly capable people on protector when it comes to doing endgame content with getting a bad rep and "one starring" them can have consequences. Unwarranted self-importance can work both ways.
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I couldn't care less, personally, if someone knew the game mechanics so well they were asked by the devs themselves how to play the game. In fact, most of the people I've one-starred were knowledgeable players who should know better.
If they know how to play so well then they have even less excuse to act with immaturity like this. The onus is on them, not the organizers.
Protector has very little tolerance for asshatery, but it will reward you richly when you honor your fellow players.
Trying to steal the spotlight for someone else's hard work and devotion to doing things right sounds a lot more like "unwarranted self-importance" in this light.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
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The fact that you even think you stand in a position to limit what content we can play is indicative of the insufferable attitude which leads to people like you not being "treated with respect". You're right. Protector does have little tolerance for such attitudes. As I said, consequences.
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Originally Posted by Stalemate
If they can't respect their fellow players (organizers and particpants alike) enough to wait a couple of minutes, they deserve what they get in return.
I couldn't care less, personally, if someone knew the game mechanics so well they were asked by the devs themselves how to play the game. In fact, most of the people I've one-starred were knowledgeable players who should know better. If they know how to play so well then they have even less excuse to act with immaturity like this. The onus is on them, not the organizers. Protector has very little tolerance for asshatery, but it will reward you richly when you honor your fellow players. Trying to steal the spotlight for someone else's hard work and devotion to doing things right sounds a lot more like "unwarranted self-importance" in this light. |
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Join date=greater than. Awesome elitism there! From now on we can decide any argument by ignoring those troublesome words and just looking under the pretty pictures to the left to see the join date. |
Originally Posted by Ura Hero
Just saying, I could care less. Been here longer than you, and I'll be here long after you're gone. One star me all you want.
Drake is a good guy and he takes a lot of time to do things for the community. If you can't or won't respect that, then I am betting the community has no use for you. We've been down this path before. It has always ended badly for the jackwads. I'll bet it will this time as well. |
For the record, Drake is as evident from this thread a good guy, puts on a good raid, and just got a little irritated at a little over zealous nature. I don't fault him in being upset, nor do I fault those wanting the raid to get going, as pylons are simply a time sink necessary to get the raid going and not even jokingly can they be considered a honest and real part of it. When the zone is full it's not a question if a raid is starting, it's a question of is there enough to start another raid in RWZ 2. When this point is reached and things are not being punched, it's hard to see this as anything but wasted time. Just sayin'.
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/agreed on elitism based on join date = stupid|
Originally Posted by Snoozer
Join date=greater than. Awesome elitism there! From now on we can decide any argument by ignoring those troublesome words and just looking under the pretty pictures to the left to see the join date.
For the record, Drake is as evident from this thread a good guy, puts on a good raid, and just got a little irritated at a little over zealous nature. I don't fault him in being upset, nor do I fault those wanting the raid to get going, as pylons are simply a time sink necessary to get the raid going and not even jokingly can they be considered a honest and real part of it. When the zone is full it's not a question if a raid is starting, it's a question of is there enough to start another raid in RWZ 2. When this point is reached and things are not being punched, it's hard to see this as anything but wasted time. Just sayin'. |
/agreed on Drake = good guy and understandable why he got irritated
/agreed waiting for raid to start once zone is full = not fun
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
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I don't see how you got that from what I replied to you. Have we confronted each other before you changed your forum handle? Your tone sounds familiar. Limiting what others do is impossible. I don't know why you mention that.|
Originally Posted by Killface
The fact that you even think you stand in a position to limit what content we can play is indicative of the insufferable attitude which leads to people like you not being "treated with respect". You're right. Protector does have little tolerance for such attitudes. As I said, consequences.
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I couldn't care less if I get treated with respect, personally. But I hate to see good people give up their time and effort and see ignorant, impatient egotists ruin the intended objective not only for them, but for all other participants as well.
My own personal goals, and I'm glad to see others rising up and doing the same, on their own, is to better the Protector community's overall enjoyment of the game, as I've been trying to do ever since I started playing. That's one of the reasons I keep logging back in.
That's how people acted towards me when I started and that's what sets CoH - and one could argue especially Protector - apart from the habitual "me first" mentality so prevalent today.
Both those behaviors will eventually attract their expected outcomes. Whatever else you may say about it matters little in the face of results:
Rikti raids go rather well when coordinated.
They fumble around when not, or when usurped.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
Nice! First thing...thanks Stale and Drake, I appreciate it both of you, not sure I deserve it, but nevertheless, Thank you. Second, those who know me (heck those that really don't) know I can stay impartial, even if I don't agree with it.
Funny thing is...this is actually an old argument as far back as I can remember. We had the same problems way back when even. Since RtRs started, Hami raids (both old and new), and STF (even more so on a master run).
People get impatient, people get upset at each other (both good and bad players, both new and veteran players), people are people. It's happened in the past, it's happening now, and it will happen again in the future.
Arguing who's right and who's wrong will get you no where. Do I agree that you need to be patient? You betcha. I had plenty of times that I got frustrated at people not being so or doing things more organized. I had plenty of times I got frustrated at people going too slow because I was being impatient.
Once an unknown man said, "One who cannot be patient for a moment will have days and months of trouble." I think that is more what was being eluded to by the 1 star thing, not really an elitism. If I see someone I have one starred...they were a pain in the rear and I will not want to team with them again. Have I ever one starred someone because they kinda pissed me off...no. It's usually because they had an utter lack of respect of others. Bad player, good player...makes no difference to me, we are all in it for the fun.
As for Ura's statement, I know Ura and I know he definitely didn't mean that he is superior due to the fact that he's been around so long and will continue to be so. He basically was responding basically to a threat and most of us do not respond well to threats. I believe it was taken out of context. He just meant he has seen alot since he's been here and will continue to stay dispite it all.
We all need to just relax and have fun. I used to hate (and I do mean hate) when I died and got debt. I just started looking at it as part of the fun and progress on one more badge.
Enjoy the game, enjoy the challenges, just enjoy!
Blazing Blue 50 fire/fire Blast, BlueStarr 50 PB, BlueSt 50 stone/ss Tank, Purple Pummaler 50 bs/regen Scrap, Green Puritan 50 emp/nrg Def, Raging Red 50 ice/cold Cor,WhiteLightning 50 ill/storm Cont, GrayMatter 44 WS,Green Marauder 24 nrg/stone Brute,Dark Blue Blaze 26 fire/fire Cor,etc
Well said BB. Thank you.
Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
I outright reject the premise that the raid failed in any way. This is now the jello shooter party line for that raid and it is a lie.
Ura outright said that, "one stars tend not to get invited to task forces and such". This was the first threat. I countered by guaranteeing him equal, fair, and well-deserved treatment. Stalemate said, "they deserve what they get in return" and that he had no respect for people who take the time to actually understand how to play the game. Both of them implied that you could limit the gameplay of others as though you ran all of the task forces on protector which lead to my second reply. Both seemed to need a reminder as to how worthless this warning is.
Stalemate tried the typical shooter logic of trying to get someone to "confess" by setting up a falsely loaded question which contained "before I changed my forum handle". I have never changed it and I only come to the forum when a friend links me. It also wasn't my first priority to register on the forum when I first joined the game, and no, sir, we have not directly spoken to each other much over the years as I have intentionally avoided this. That is not because of who you are individually, but more a result of the small facet of protector from which you hail.
Blazing Blue came out to offer an "impartial" vouch for his fellow shooter. The irony is staggering. I reject his premise that it is somehow discourteous to start once the zone is full. I contend that it is rude and discourteous to those who have attended to not start and perhaps even have a second raid afterward once you finish early in the event that the zone is full as it was wednesday. This is an online game. You cannot govern the actions of others, but you can govern your own actions. To sit and expect others to wait on you is selfish and inconsiderate. Everyone should strive to try to get as much done together as possible in what little time our schedules match up. If people happen to be afk when we start killing pylons early then they can join in once they are back. People will always have to afk during the course of 50 people being together for the same event on an online game at any given interval. This is no excuse to make others who are not afk wait.
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The lady doth protest too much, methinks.|
Originally Posted by Killface
I outright reject the premise that the raid failed in any way. This is now the jello shooter party line for that raid and it is a lie.
(This is the part wherein he says a lot of stuff) |
We at RtR don't ask you to show up an hour early. We don't ask you to show up half an hour early. People do, however, because they want to ensure a spot. That is all well and good, but having to wait until the scheduled start time (which was a couple minutes away, by my clock) is not such a big deal as you're making it out to be.
Frankly, Killface, you're not going to get very far trying to tear down the character of people who have put forth the effort to represent and coordinate these weekly events. Implying that there's some sort of vast "Jello Shooter Conspiracy" doesn't help you much, either, because that channel is far too disorganized to articulate such plotting successfully.
Essentially, it's hard to take your indignation seriously. We're supposed to sympathize with you when you so violently and vehemently decry people who are merely venting about how something they try to make enjoyable for everybody involved was interfered with by a few people who got impatient? Your posts indicate that you may have had something to do with the incident as well, for no globals or character names have been mentioned throughout the venting, aside from an apology to Mave.
Are you really so naive as to believe that people will react favorably when you interfere with their fun? If I run across a player who inexplicably has been inexplicably damaging the experience, either accidentally or maliciously, I am going to react with more than a little irritation. My behavior will understandably grow more intense as the perpetrator is informed of his/her errors and unrepentantly continues the unsettling behavior (which removes all doubt that this could in some way be an accident).
You may be among the best players of the game on the server. If you continue to make other players feel miserable in your presence, however, you're going to find your mastery will continue to go unrecognized as more and more players learn to avoid being near you, whether informed by other players or through their own experiences with you.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
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When you start out with 4+ teams and finish with the equivalent of 2 (after consolidating mid-raid as people log/leave), I'd qualify that as a failed raid.|
Originally Posted by Killface
I outright reject the premise that the raid failed in any way. This is now the jello shooter party line for that raid and it is a lie.
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I'd qualify a bunch of people missing the GM credit (where normally everyone gets it) as a failure.
I'd qualify extensive corpse camping as a failure.
Reject all you want. Compared to a normal raid, last week's run was a shambles.
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| Ura outright said that, "one stars tend not to get invited to task forces and such". This was the first threat. I countered by guaranteeing him equal, fair, and well-deserved treatment. Stalemate said, "they deserve what they get in return" and that he had no respect for people who take the time to actually understand how to play the game. Both of them implied that you could limit the gameplay of others as though you ran all of the task forces on protector which lead to my second reply. Both seemed to need a reminder as to how worthless this warning is. |
A warning that jerking around with other people getting one-starred limits your options is a valid and non-threatening warning. If you want to interpret it as a threat, be my guest.
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| Blazing Blue came out to offer an "impartial" vouch for his fellow shooter. The irony is staggering. I reject his premise that it is somehow discourteous to start once the zone is full. |
The basic principal of organization in a raid isn't completely alien, is it?
It ever occur to you that not everyone was READY to start? Hence why there's a raid leadership structure, even for something as straightforward as a ship raid.
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| I contend that it is rude and discourteous to those who have attended to not start and perhaps even have a second raid afterward once you finish early in the event that the zone is full as it was wednesday. |
And do you REALLY expect the raid leaders, once they've been usurped, to be all sweetness and light and run a second raid with the same ill-behaved cretins?
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| This is an online game. |
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| You cannot govern the actions of others, but you can govern your own actions. |
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| To sit and expect others to wait on you is selfish and inconsiderate. |
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| Everyone should strive to try to get as much done together as possible in what little time our schedules match up. |
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| If people happen to be afk when we start killing pylons early then they can join in once they are back. |
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| People will always have to afk during the course of 50 people being together for the same event on an online game at any given interval. This is no excuse to make others who are not afk wait. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Anyhow...I say let this all be as in the past and go forward into the future. Maybe tomorrow night will be much better. I regret that I can not join and have been out of the game for awhile, but I wish you all the best of luck tomorrow night. No more arguing...just fun RtR now!
Good Journey to all!
Blazing Blue 50 fire/fire Blast, BlueStarr 50 PB, BlueSt 50 stone/ss Tank, Purple Pummaler 50 bs/regen Scrap, Green Puritan 50 emp/nrg Def, Raging Red 50 ice/cold Cor,WhiteLightning 50 ill/storm Cont, GrayMatter 44 WS,Green Marauder 24 nrg/stone Brute,Dark Blue Blaze 26 fire/fire Cor,etc
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Originally Posted by Blazing_Blue
I regret that I can not join and have been out of the game for awhile, but I wish you all the best of luck tomorrow night.
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Excuses excuses!
Get yoh ezz to Mahz!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Can someone PM me the names/globals of the people causing the problem?
Pretty please?
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Once the GM was down I will acknowledge people were satisfied to have both their badge credits and moseyed off. I think it's ludicrous to consider ending a raid with anything over 30 to be a failure. It's not only the leaders who can be insulted in these matters, each and every person in that zone does their part and I refuse to allow you to call their efforts a failure.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
When you start out with 4+ teams and finish with the equivalent of 2 (after consolidating mid-raid as people log/leave), I'd qualify that as a failed raid.
I'd qualify a bunch of people missing the GM credit (where normally everyone gets it) as a failure. I'd qualify extensive corpse camping as a failure. Reject all you want. Compared to a normal raid, last week's run was a shambles. |
You cannot say with certainty "everyone" gets credit in an organized raid. I can acknowledge effort being made to get everyone credit for it. You also cannot say for certain "a bunch" did not get it last week, as evidence is severely lacking to back up this statement.
No one really cared about corpse camping, so no one (in the usual hostile fashion) encouraged people to go to the hospital. It's more annoying to complain about corpse camping than the corpse camping itself. See it as their lose and your gain, because they lose out on fun and you gain in vengeance if they're on your team.
And on your last point, I'll acknowledge that compared to a normal raid last week's didn't go as smoothly as normal. But I can absolutely say that it went better than some of the organized raids. If you want to try to tell me the organized raids never been wiped out in the bowl, I'd love to hear that!
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Do you go charging in solo on Hami raids too? The basic principal of organization in a raid isn't completely alien, is it? It ever occur to you that not everyone was READY to start? Hence why there's a raid leadership structure, even for something as straightforward as a ship raid. |
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The raids are set for specific times so that people CAN plan. This way they can get into the zone, get a few IRL things knocked out before the raid begins at it's set time, and then sit down and mash face, undisturbed. And do you REALLY expect the raid leaders, once they've been usurped, to be all sweetness and light and run a second raid with the same ill-behaved cretins? ... Again, the raid is set for a specific time on a specific day. If you can't respect that, politely run your OWN damn raids and stop screwing up the ones put on by others. |
You're acting like this was a half hour prior to the start time and not close enough that I almost question if someone just needed to rewind their clock that sped ahead a bit. The issue wasn't the time so much as an issue of Drake not calling the pylons and being angry about this, which is something I can understand. I believe lessening the importance of the pylons in general and not taking it personally when people want to obliterate them once the zone is full will do both view points great benefit.
And I'm afraid I cannot finish without making a stern point here regarding all the vitriol spewing going on. Understand this before unleashing more needless name calling: These people you call ill-behaved cretins are the ones who show up every week and go through the good raids and the bad without complaint, and are over eager to help get the ball rolling. They don't rely on you to run the raid, you rely on them to be the fodder to make the raid a success, and it would do you well to tone down your arrogance several levels.
I wasn't going to post in this thread because it is all irrelevant to me...
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Really? I mean really? I don't know why you want these names...but don't go around and asking for them in public. If you were not there to ignore or one star them then you really shouldn't care and just asking like this, in a public forum, is just rude.
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Originally Posted by Sooner
Can someone PM me the names/globals of the people causing the problem?
Pretty please? |
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Rude? Rude how?|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
I wasn't going to post in this thread because it is all irrelevant to me...
Really? I mean really? I don't know why you want these names...but don't go around and asking for them in public. If you were not there to ignore or one star them then you really shouldn't care and just asking like this, in a public forum, is just rude. |
I'm curious if these are the same people who have been causing trouble elsewhere. By asking for the names to be PM'd, no one needs to be called out.
But feel free to jump to whatever other conclusions you'd like, or make any other accusation.
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Just by posting that question you are calling people out because a lot of people could know who it is, that is why it is rude. You should of just PM Stone Daemon, Hyper or DrakeCrator and ask them because they know who it is. And no one also would of known you asked. Therefore leaving your business out of this thread.|
Originally Posted by Sooner
Rude? Rude how?
I'm curious if these are the same people who have been causing trouble elsewhere. By asking for the names to be PM'd, no one needs to be called out. But feel free to jump to whatever other conclusions you'd like, or make any other accusation. |
It also make you come off as an elitist, because it looks like you are asking for names...
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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I'm not really sure where you stopped reading but, a PM is what is what most people like to call a "Private Message", as in no one else should know whats in that message except for the two parties involved. It is not rude to ask because no one is being called out. As of why someone would want to know the globals it could be to ignore them or be watchful of their actions in game. But lets be honest, its none of your business which way or the other.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
Just by posting that question you are calling people out because a lot of people could know who it is, that is why it is rude. You should of just PM Stone Daemon, Hyper or DrakeCrator and ask them because they know who it is. And no one also would of known you asked. Therefore leaving your business out of this thread.
It also make you come off as an elitist, because it looks like you asking for names... |
"while some people would say fish, cow, ambush!"-Ice9
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You're right it is none of my business and it has no business being posted here. I don't think you were getting what I was saying. I was saying she should of kept the whole conversion in Private Message(need to type this out now...) so it was only her business. No one would of known what she was doing but the people that were involved in the Private Message. |
Originally Posted by Elric
I'm not really sure where you stopped reading but, a PM is what is what most people like to call a "Private Message", as in no one else should know whats in that message except for the two parties involved. It is not rude to ask because no one is being called out. As of why someone would want to know the globals it could be to ignore them or be watchful of their actions in game. But lets be honest, its none of your business which way or the other.
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Anyways I'm done derailing(talking off topic) this thread.
Hope you all have fun on your next RtR
Later.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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That's just it, we didn't end with over 30.|
Originally Posted by Snoozer
I think it's ludicrous to consider ending a raid with anything over 30 to be a failure.
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| It's not only the leaders who can be insulted in these matters, each and every person in that zone does their part and I refuse to allow you to call their efforts a failure. |
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| You cannot say with certainty "everyone" gets credit in an organized raid. I can acknowledge effort being made to get everyone credit for it. You also cannot say for certain "a bunch" did not get it last week, as evidence is severely lacking to back up this statement. |
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| No one really cared about corpse camping, so no one (in the usual hostile fashion) encouraged people to go to the hospital. It's more annoying to complain about corpse camping than the corpse camping itself. See it as their lose and your gain, because they lose out on fun and you gain in vengeance if they're on your team. |
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| Well numerous things are wrong with this. If you treat the first stage of a hamidon raid the way you do a rikti raid, then it's not comparable. |
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| Drake has started raids nearly 10 minutes early when the zone was full, so I guess you only care about the organizer's personal matters? If you're using that as your point then perhaps you can explain why this has happened in the past. I don't think he was wrong in starting early however, so I'll continue. |
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| You're acting like this was a half hour prior to the start time and not close enough that I almost question if someone just needed to rewind their clock that sped ahead a bit. |
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| And I'm afraid I cannot finish without making a stern point here regarding all the vitriol spewing going on. Understand this before unleashing more needless name calling: These people you call ill-behaved cretins are the ones who show up every week and go through the good raids and the bad without complaint, and are over eager to help get the ball rolling. They don't rely on you to run the raid, you rely on them to be the fodder to make the raid a success, and it would do you well to tone down your arrogance several levels. |
Thanks for your interest. I'm done on this particular subject.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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This is going to lead to a "yes it is" "no it isn't" so I'm just going to say "it was over 30" and you can say that and repeat until infinity. The point of this is on the starting point of the raid. Namely that when a zone is full and people are twiddling their thumbs, I find it really difficult to imagine there's some grand strategy at work that requires 40+ people to sit and wait to perform an all but meaningless requirement to begin a raid.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
That's just it, we didn't end with over 30.
|
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| Feel free to try. |
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| On the occasional bad raid, we get people who miss the merits. I'm not denying that. But on most of the raids, you know, the ones that tend to go real smoothly? On most of those, the only people who don't get the merits are those not paying attention. |
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| Keep telling yourself this. Maybe it'll be true some day. |
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| Sorry. Not going to start stacking on silly preconditions here. The point remains that people who go off and do their own thing jack up the raid for others AND themselves. |
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| Again, if everyone is onboard (especially the raid leader), then there's no issue with starting early. Maybe you missed my point about jumping out and usurping the raid earlier. Please go back and actually read what I said instead of assuming I'm talking about us being locked to a specific clock. |
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| The raids are set for specific times so that people CAN plan. This way they can get into the zone, get a few IRL things knocked out before the raid begins at it's set time, and then sit down and mash face, undisturbed. |
By the way, it was Drake that decided the raid was usurped, and this somehow became the organizers new talking point. People started attacking pylons to get the raid going, someone said a pylon number on broadcast, then the raid was abandoned by the organizer over broadcast ("I guess ______ is leading" as I recall). It's obvious the ultimate goal here was for the raid to end unsuccessfully and spitefully say "Told ya so!" However, that didn't happen and the attempt to still do the "Told ya so!" is just plain silly.
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| No, actually I'm not. Again, you've mistaken what I've been talking about. The issue is with usurping the raid. Period. Please try to keep up. |
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Note: I'm not talking about everyone who jumped the gun on this raid when I refer to certain people as "cretins". If you dislike my choice of terminology, the problem is entirely yours. Hope it works out for you. Thanks for your interest. I'm done on this particular subject. |
Moving on: Last week was fun but was also revealed many festering wounds that were being ignored. To outright abandon a raid due to people attacking pylons early makes it clear to me this has been going on for a while and only now became just too much to handle. It's been stated before, but cannot be enough: Attacking the pylons was not an attempt to be disrespectful but was a strong desire to get rolling when the zone was full. Hopefully all sides have come out of this better and will see how improvements can be made not only from the other side, but their own. What I'm suggesting is to find a way to harness the feeling of eagerness rather than attempting to contain it, because it is a promise and a guarantee that the results would certainly be less than satisfactory for everyone involved. Working together with mutual understanding and respect is what is necessary and the first step towards that is to stop seeing the other side as the enemy but rather a friend with another viewpoint...then again, I'm just an optimist who likes punching things a lot!
Can't we all just get along?
Blazing Blue 50 fire/fire Blast, BlueStarr 50 PB, BlueSt 50 stone/ss Tank, Purple Pummaler 50 bs/regen Scrap, Green Puritan 50 emp/nrg Def, Raging Red 50 ice/cold Cor,WhiteLightning 50 ill/storm Cont, GrayMatter 44 WS,Green Marauder 24 nrg/stone Brute,Dark Blue Blaze 26 fire/fire Cor,etc
This happened two weeks ago as well. Very poor manners on those who tried to take over, IMHO.