Consolidated Thread - SG Missions
By
Entropy_Aegis,
Posted on: 2007-08-27 18:15 in Base Construction
Strike forces that are assigned by the vindicators themselves, where you get to team with them or the vanguard, something of that nature....i think teaming with Mynx would be awesome, not to metion lumiary, infernal, and all the rest.
"You, dear sir, are a legend. "- nelly. "PIE DOESN'T HAVE TENTACLES!"
Bladewing Draconian lvl 30 KAT/SR scrapper
DarkNinjutsu lvl 50 DM/REG scrapper
Dajoji Hino lvl 50 elm/ela scrapper
Bloody Byakko lvl 20 claws/sr scrapper
My personal take on this would be summed up as...
1) Simple and direct, like the Newspaper or Scanner provides, only on the Super Computer
2) Provide a reward for working as a SG, but not a requirement
3) Build up to a SG Version of a Mayhem/Safeguard
on making them unique...
- To make them group-themed, they should utilize mutliple-click glowies.
- Give each mission an Elite Boss to kill, to increase the challenge.
- Using outdoor maps would make them distinct from news missions.
- If these are outdoors, how about renaming the Raid Porter into a Mission Porter, or a Group Porter or something and giving it the added function of starting these missions?
Doesn't really have to be too complex, just team-focused.
The reward should be bonus Prestige if a certain amount of people from the same SG gain Prestige upon completion (so in SG Mode and within level range). Maybe 100 Prestige each if 3+ members of your SG are present, and 150 Prestige each if 5+ are present. So you can combine 2 coalition SGs and both get rewarded.
Some subtle observations on setting up the bonus this way: the bonus is independent of the relative difficulty of the mission, it's not "double the mission bonus" or something - so you can't exploit this in a PL-type sidekick setup. You also need to get a reward for the bonus to trigger, so you can't get 2 non-SK'd lowbies from the SG to sit at the door while you solo this and reap the bonus.
You could also limit the bonus by time, like PVP zone missions.
SG-Mayhem, SG-Safeguard?
Obviously the pipe-dream here would be the often-suggested raid on your base by NPCs. That's a bit tough to design, with things like base pathing and potential goals for raiding. How about something simpler for now?
How about a very challenging mission like that famous "get these glowies in 10 minuts"? Don't tell the team what it is until they take it, give them 15 minute to...
- Kill any 3 DE Giant Monsters on a map full of them
- Kill a COT AV and his 4 Elite Boss friends (a challenge like the Aeon fight in the States TF)
- Hit 50 glowies on an outdoor map
Something INSANELY fast-paced and designed for 8 people. In-your-face, get-in-and-get-out, wild fun that you might truely fail miserably and have fun failing!
oh yeah, you can easily add badges for doing some number of these, or doing specific tasks within them (Glowies, Hostages, etc)
[ QUOTE ]
Something INSANELY fast-paced and designed for 8 people. In-your-face, get-in-and-get-out, wild fun that you might truely fail miserably and have fun failing!
[/ QUOTE ]
You still have to account for those small supergroups which primarily consists or two or three RL friends with a huge amount of alts.
SG missions should be just like any other mission in that regard that you do not need a set amount of people to do them.
Main Hero: Flame Blade (Scrapper lvl 50; Katana/Regeneration)
Main Villain: Elenor Seahawk (Mastermind lvl 44; Necromancy/Poison)
My Arcs: #337278: Learning Curve
Fight my Brute: SMASH
Looks good so far.
<ul type="square">[*]The Mission Computer should always offer one mission that lacks the multiple click glowies, to give small SGs something to do. Lower, or even no, Prestige bonus is fine.[*]Some SG missions should trigger the usual civvy chatter, with the SG mentioned instead of the character.[*]Mission Computer Aux. could be a way for SGs to customize their opponents with one available for each enemy group. It would be great if there was a story arc for each too. These could be unlocked by completing an SG rumble (Safeguard/Mayhem).[*]Base Invasion could be done as a series of spawns. Defeating certain groups triggers spawns by the usual base objectives with associated ambushes. Destruction of the objectives fails the mission. Success comes from fighting off all the waves, including the enemy raid leader (EB or AV).[/list]
[ QUOTE ]
You still have to account for those small supergroups which primarily consists or two or three RL friends with a huge amount of alts.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's nothing that would require a SG team. I made a point of that in my post. You could easily do this with 1 SG member and a pickup team.
[ QUOTE ]
SG missions should be just like any other mission in that regard that you do not need a set amount of people to do them.
[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of the game is designed to require multiple players. Task Forces, Giant Monsters, Rikti Ship Raids, AVs. Why would it be a problem to gear superGROUP activities to teams of multiple people?
Really, I think it's the difference between "newspaper-like missions from a new source" and "supergroup missions on the mission computer".
We already have an endless source of missions that any amount of people can do. Isn't the point here to add something new and different?
Just don't make the system punish a 1-player SG if they can't do these. eg, don't go having these missions unlock some uber base item that would be denied to the 1-player SG. (though they have accolades based on multiplayer content like TFs, so maybe I'm wrong there...? perhaps the missions could unlock something if that unlocking is not tied to a head count of how many SG members are on the mission. So the 1-player can unlock stuff for their group by teaming up with a whole other SG.)
[ QUOTE ][*]The Mission Computer should always offer one mission that lacks the multiple click glowies, to give small SGs something to do. Lower, or even no, Prestige bonus is fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
As I asked the previous poster: Then why would they do this instead of a Newspaper mission?
Another thing to consider: a running Mission Computer and Raid Porter with nothing else on the plot would cost 925k. Would many small SGs be doing these missions? (and again, that's not elitist, that's simply gearing content towards teams.) It's almost like making sure there's a way for one person to beat the Cathedral of Pain withing realizing that 1 person can't buy all 6 anchors and a Vault.
[ QUOTE ]
... Destruction of the objectives fails the mission. ...
[/ QUOTE ]
The trouble is that you kind of have to design your own failure condition. You need to provide the object the people are attacking. It can be a bit tough to make that interesting, or even challenging. Not saying it's impossible, but given the number of issues with NPC raids it may be a bit ambitious to tackle those at the same time as SG Missions.
This is kind of the COP/IOP problem - we can't have bonus powers while in SG Mode because IOPs are tied to a second, more complex system that doesn't work. There's a lot of benefit to doing the 2 ideas separately.
[ QUOTE ]
SG-Mayhem, SG-Safeguard?
Obviously the pipe-dream here would be the often-suggested raid on your base by NPCs.
[/ QUOTE ]
In lieu of this pipe dream, how about raiding an NPC base? Have some base designs filled with, say, arachnos and named Rogue Isles villains (boss-level). Similar in nature to fighting one's way through the "Villain Team" in the Statesman task force, it gives a PvE scenario with a "we're fighting actual villains rather than faceless soldiers" feel.
Villainside, this could be reversed. Attack a hero base filled with longbow and Named Paragon City Heroes .
The objectives could emulate those of a raid - fight your way through the defenses and click the glowie (item of power, but not. Perhaps it gives a temp power to the person who clicks it?). Alternate objectives (such as droping raid pylons) may also be a possibility.
Large teams, in a fashion resembling a safeguard, could trigger an Elite Boss or AV in the base.
The key to succeeding would be in the dynamic creation of enemy bases, and having a large library of NPCs to draw from. An Auto-SK to 50 would be ideal here, in order to allow everyone in a team to participate in much the same fashion as a classic base raid.
Make sure we add in RUINS and Nems lists in here while you can still edit Mad........delete any duplications.
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
<ul type="square">[*]Supergroup missions based upon Villain/Hero Group: Function is to allow groups who have a particular focus the ability to do an Arc of missions against only a specific type.
Pro: Roleplay, Theme, Style, Good for Group Events
Con: Would require reduced XP to prevent abuse (choosing only freaks for example)
[*]Mission Rewards Unlock unique decorative items specifically trophies ala Batman's Giant penny.
[/list]
Ultimate Dream but not feasable unless entire issue was set to it, Custom missions designed by the SG through the computer.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
[ QUOTE ][*]Supergroup missions based upon Villain/Hero Group: Function is to allow groups who have a particular focus the ability to do an Arc of missions against only a specific type.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about... different SG Missions build you up towards related SG Mayhems.
For example, if you help complete a COT SG Mission (whether its from your mission computer or you jump in on someone else's team) in SG Mode then your SG gets 1 credit towards a COT SG Rumble. If you help complete a Nemesis SG Mission, your SG gets 1 credit towards a Nemesis SG Rumble. And so on.
Maybe it takes 25 credits to unlock the ability to run the Rumble once. at an average of 5 people on a team doing this as a SG that's 5 mission, like Mayhems. (Sure it's more for a soloist, but what isn't?)
Then whatever the special rewards are, they can be keyed to beating the Rumble mission itself. I do like the idea of the reward being something "extra" and not just taking large Prestige gains onto the mayhem-like mission if you succeed - THAT would be skewed too much to non-soloists.
I would like to see SG missions from the Mission Computer that take you into PvP zones to complete mission set. Other SGs can attempt to foil your actions!
Could be a patrol to retrieve a code with geo coordinates.....followed by an mission door in zone.
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
1) SG missions from the mission computer that function in a manner similar to newspaper/scanner missions.
2) SG missions building up to a SG mayhem/safeguard.
3) SG missions using the giant monster/rikti code so the mobs don't have levels and you bring along anyone in the SG.
4) Special rewards ranging from costume pieces to base decorations to useful base items for completing SG missions with other members of your SG (OR) coalition. Including "trophy" rewards.
5) Possibly a reward that would allow SGs to build temporary powers (perhaps themed to an origin) so that SGs could have some uniformity of bonus powers as well.
6) Possibly a reward that would allow you to "recruit" or "capture" npcs to defend your base during a raid or just mill around and look nice.
7) Bonus prestige!
8) NPCs in town talking about your SG!
9) SG missions where you can go on adventures with members of the iconic hero groups. Statesman should want to party.
10) NPC raids (if at all possible).
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ][*]Supergroup missions based upon Villain/Hero Group: Function is to allow groups who have a particular focus the ability to do an Arc of missions against only a specific type.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about... different SG Missions build you up towards related SG Mayhems.
For example, if you help complete a COT SG Mission (whether its from your mission computer or you jump in on someone else's team) in SG Mode then your SG gets 1 credit towards a COT SG Rumble. If you help complete a Nemesis SG Mission, your SG gets 1 credit towards a Nemesis SG Rumble. And so on.
Maybe it takes 25 credits to unlock the ability to run the Rumble once. at an average of 5 people on a team doing this as a SG that's 5 mission, like Mayhems. (Sure it's more for a soloist, but what isn't?)
Then whatever the special rewards are, they can be keyed to beating the Rumble mission itself. I do like the idea of the reward being something "extra" and not just taking large Prestige gains onto the mayhem-like mission if you succeed - THAT would be skewed too much to non-soloists.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this enhancement and functionality as you describe Mad. go with that in leiu of my original.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
A nice thing to set SG missions apart would be to use the GM level coding so it would not be necessary to arrange SKs and Exemplars which would make it easier for more of the SG to participate in the action.
I love the idea of using a villain group Ala the one doing the respec in the STF as an opponent for SG missions.
Other things I liked
Missions that involved an NPC raid on your base.
Raiding an NPC base.
continuity within the "set" of missions (like going after the same faction) leading to a final mission.
Example of a SG mission story line:
Mission one: Collect clues of a villain plot
This would be a typical mission to go to a random location fighting a bunch of some faction to get clues of a plot. (Clicky)
Mission two: Stop the plot
Thwart <random rouge island villain #1> attempt to steal the <item needed for villain plot>
Mission three: Defend Base
<Random Rouge Island Villain #2> and <Random Rouge Island Villain #3> Lead an NPC crew to attack your base to get back <item needed for villain plot>
Mission four: Taking it to the badies [set on a random SG/Mayhem map]
The attack was a distraction and while you were busy defending your base the Villains <either snuck into your base and stole it while you were fighting or stole a different one> Stop the villain group from putting their plan in action. Sort of like the SG key missions with hot spots and various rouge island villains and other NPC mobs (whatever faction they are working with) stopping each "key" like mission to complete.
Mission five: Putting an end to this madness
Assault the NPC base of the Rouge Island Villain group. Face off at an NPC base complete with defenses and maybe and EB/AV VG leader and up to 7 boss/EB rouge island villains. Maybe some NPCs from the faction helping them for flavor.
Anything that can be done by 8 or fewer people should be available as a regular mission or Task Force, I think. I think the SG missions should be geared towards multiple teams, with all the teams coming together for an epic battle at the end.
The Hess task force is almost perfect. Imagine that instead of going into three consecutive small council bases to knock out their radar, you have to hit three locations simultaneously. One team would go to each location. There would be a time limit, so that one team couldn't do all three missions sequentially. After all three small missions are done, the teams would come together to fight the giant robot together. Except, of course, the giant robot should actually fight back, and not just stand there looking pretty.
I know, it isn't fair for the smallest supergroups, but I really think the SG missions should offer unique content that can't be done by any PUG. Though maybe it could work that only the leader of the group needs to be in the SG, and the other people could be outsiders.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
[ QUOTE ]
Raiding an NPC base.
[/ QUOTE ]
so instead of having to set up your base for a raid (which could be very easy to manipulate raider AI) you could have to attack a base using the Pylon/Anchor strategies. The defenders are not mobs of minions, but instead a small set of Elite Bosses (or whatever is equivalent to one PVP match). Seems interesting as a way to make a SG Rumble.
Would there be AI problems? eg, would something like Taunt be grossly overpowered in such a setup because a Tank and anyone else to plant Pylons may make this raid trivial. Would the defending force be smart enough to react to a fight 2 rooms away, as if they had teammates alerting them over chat? I wonder just how you could simulate a PVP setup with AI, because normal NPC Mobs sure don't utilize player-quality tactics.
[ QUOTE ]
Anything that can be done by 8 or fewer people should be available as a regular mission or Task Force, I think. I think the SG missions should be geared towards multiple teams, with all the teams coming together for an epic battle at the end.
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that the very tech they've been unable to fix for the Cathedral?
Also, if it was doable, would they have used it for instanced Hammi Raids instead of the 50 person zone limit?
It's certainly interesting, but would it be do-able? (THIS is the type of thing that would really benefit from a regular Dev presence in this forum to answer.... but I digress...)
Course, they could always keep things simple at first, then amp them up a level if they're popular. Kind of like how the simple bank robbery missions were in Villains to start and then got replaced with the much more complex Mayhems.
I'm just tossing out ideas here so be nice :P
But I was thinking for the Rouge Island Villains (here after known as RIVs) have a special "hidden agenda" that effects their agro to try and simulate a more robust combat experience.
We all know the current agro progression
level 1: I hate you and you are near me.
level 2: You have done damage to me, and I hate that.
level 3: Taunt
If they added to that a "hidden agenda" to give the NPC RIV a special job so to speak it would make for a better opponent.
Example:
RIV Stalker of the group given the hidden agenda to kill support. If the AI detects a defender in the hero group the RIV Stalker overrides the Level 1 and 2 agro formula and goes after the defender.
Example 2:
one of the RIV Corruptors assigned the "hidden agenda" to heal and buff the RIV group. In this instance instead of attacking based on the agro code the NPC would (if a team mate was injured or a buff was down) heal or buff them. Or maybe even rez them?
Tsoo Sorcs will do this (at least the heal part), and they are one of the most annoying and challenging enemies in the game as a result.
Also it would be cool if each RIV was given some inspirations to use (triggered by a certain event)
example
Each RIV get 1 Red 1 Yellow 1 Green 1 break free and 1 wakie
Situation: first contact with the PC group
Use red and yellow
Situation: Health 25%
Use Green
Situation: Mezzed/Stunned/Held
Use Break free
Situation: Dead
Use wakie
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't that the very tech they've been unable to fix for the Cathedral?
Also, if it was doable, would they have used it for instanced Hammi Raids instead of the 50 person zone limit?
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't the faintest idea what went wrong with the cathedral of pain. And I think the new Hami raid was meant to keep the feel of the old Hami raid, with a whole army of people working together, but with less griefing, less lag, and less leeching.
I have this image in my head of Superman saying, "Wonder Woman, you deal with those robot cowboys in Utah. Batman, find the villain's lair. Flash, see if you can unwind that twister while I put a stop to that comet." Then everyone in the SG goes rushing off in different directions, each to handle their own mission. Each person could recruit strangers, or solo the thing, or invite other sg members along.
I don't know how hard that would be to program, but I think it would be cool. If you finish your mission early, you could go help your sg mates. They might be in a stalemate against an AV, and suddenly the cavalry arrives. I think it would be very comic booky.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
[ QUOTE ]
Missions that involved an NPC raid on your base.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. By far and away, this needs to be in. The 'SG-Safeguards' should be EXACTLY this. Run a series of missions through the computer and get to a PvE base raid. (Well, for variety's sake alternate between this and the mentioned 'raid the enemy base' counter.) PvP base raiding is, for most groups, impractical or too frustrating to be worth it. A fun set-up of defending your turf versus, say, onrushing waves of Nemesis troops would be extremely fun and something I'd gladly do over and over. It would instantly justify the costs of building a combat-ready base for me.
Edit: To echo Peterpeter's point - these SHOULD be scaled for full SGs/coaltions of SGs. Multiple groups. One of the things that frustrates me with base raids is the low limit on player slots and the inability for coalitionmates to participate.
[ QUOTE ]
One of the things that frustrates me with base raids is the low limit on player slots and the inability for coalitionmates to participate.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's quite the same concern. Raids are a pain to set up and don't happen too often. These Mayhems would be simple to start, and could be run frequently. A player could simply catch the next one, or start one themselves a few minutes later.
On the flip side, though, making them content *requiring* multiple teams is very discouraging for smaller groups. I have enough trouble getting a Respec team together some time, I'd hate to be unable to run this Mayhem because not enough people are around.
As for coalition participation - I want to stress something I said in my post with SG Mission suggestions... SG Missions should not REQUIRE a SG or coalition. They should be just like any other mission, using any pickup team, but REWARD you if you do have multiple members from the SG.
Agreed, this sort of thing would bring heroside SGs together in a way that has (IMO) never really been possible for some. Even a slightly scattered SG would be ready and raring to go at an opportunity like this.
"You, dear sir, are a legend. "- nelly. "PIE DOESN'T HAVE TENTACLES!"
Bladewing Draconian lvl 30 KAT/SR scrapper
DarkNinjutsu lvl 50 DM/REG scrapper
Dajoji Hino lvl 50 elm/ela scrapper
Bloody Byakko lvl 20 claws/sr scrapper
QR
I'm a bit tired of having everything catered to the smaller one or two man sg's. There should be stuff for the bigger sg's and only for them. This is an MMO afterall. I agree there should be stuff for the for the small guys as well, but not necessarily everything.
I'd like to see newspaper-ish missions with EB's scaled up the AV status when there's a certain amount of people on the team. I'd like more SF/TF's via the computer as well. Maybe they could tailor up all the current SF/TF's available in the game and kick them up a notch for us crazy SG's that think we can handle a "above relentless/invinceable" challenge. That darn mission computer is so under utilized right now.
It's worth noting the difference between "For a Large SG" and "For a Large Team".
The so-called "SG Strikeforce" can be done with 1 SG member. (or even none after a certain point.) It's not really SG content, it's just in the base.
So the question is: do you bother enforcing the need for people to be in the same SG? If so, what's the reward? And do you create the opposite problem in a *multiplayer* game saying you can't team with certain people under certain circumstances?
That's why I think you want to encourage but not require SGs. You don't want to boot people off the team if you decide to do a SG Mission. and you can easily have your X-men/Defenders crossover storyline without worrying if they're coalitioned. I don't think the COP was successful in requiring a large SG roster, I know a number of smaller rosters who got pickup members to help them run it.
There may be a general desire for AV missions generated in an endless Newspaper style, that's worth looking in to. However, if you add in a reward based on SG participation it may be exploitable to turn them into EBs. (one person starts with an EB sized team, invite others to quicky beat him but get AV-team-size bonuses.) so I think it'd have to be one or the other - go with AVs like TFs do where they don't scale, or just go with EBs as enough of a team feature. maybe offer one of each on the mission list?
IMHO, AV content and large teams seem pretty easy to find, I can join TFs for those. Endlessly generated EB content that's a challenge to solo would be of interest to a number of my characters, whether the rest of the SG is logged on or not.
Making SG missions a notch above a normal mission's difficulty would certainly be an option for making something that encourages teaming. Kind of like how Hazard Zones have larger sized spawns to encourage using teams there.
An attempt to consolidate disussion about SG Missions.
What would you like to see for SG-themed Missions?